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I'm very surprised to see that no one's mentioned this yet - or have I missed it? (I've just skim-read today's topic titles). The sort of thing one might expect to see on April 1.
Clearly based on the naive belief that there's no such thing as temptation. So counter-productive when there have been so many campaigns to make those who are likely to be tempted be more careful.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25826637
I'm sure Norwegians, who've gone far too far the other way, imho, who are reading about this tonight at completely stupefied.
Clearly based on the naive belief that there's no such thing as temptation. So counter-productive when there have been so many campaigns to make those who are likely to be tempted be more careful.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25826637
I'm sure Norwegians, who've gone far too far the other way, imho, who are reading about this tonight at completely stupefied.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I'm stupefied too. But then this was a logical (?) progression from selling booze at petrol stations on the highstreet.
> I'm sure Norwegians, who've gone far too far the other way, imho, who are reading about this tonight at completely stupefied.
I'm stupefied too. But then this was a logical (?) progression from selling booze at petrol stations on the highstreet.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
All pubs are near roads and not everyone at the services is a driver. Also, from my perspective, there would be no temptation because alcohol holds so little allure for me.
It doesn't seem like the most sensible step, and when something just seems like a bad idea, it usually is. However, there is money to be made so nothing else is really important, is it?
All pubs are near roads and not everyone at the services is a driver. Also, from my perspective, there would be no temptation because alcohol holds so little allure for me.
It doesn't seem like the most sensible step, and when something just seems like a bad idea, it usually is. However, there is money to be made so nothing else is really important, is it?
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
French motorway service generally stations serve extremely edible food, with wine available if desired. It doesn't seem to result in mass carnage on their motorways. I remember being greatly impressed by the selection of high quality wines available by the case at a service station in Burgundy. Then again, there was the service station in Bordeaux with its own climbing wall, complete with instructor.
French motorway service generally stations serve extremely edible food, with wine available if desired. It doesn't seem to result in mass carnage on their motorways. I remember being greatly impressed by the selection of high quality wines available by the case at a service station in Burgundy. Then again, there was the service station in Bordeaux with its own climbing wall, complete with instructor.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Here in the DR there are discotecas in the forecourts of gas stations!
Here in the DR there are discotecas in the forecourts of gas stations!
In reply to John2:
All comparisons with French law and attitudes are doomed because, well, they're French and we're Brits.
All comparisons with French law and attitudes are doomed because, well, they're French and we're Brits.
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Well, fine. You are just the kind of person we don't have to worry about. But there is a surprisingly large swathe of the population who, while not technically alcoholics, are on that dangerous cusp, and have to be v careful and self-disciplined indeed, given their semi-addiction.
It is actually extremely awkward for any driver to go to a pub while en route on a motorway. Typically they are quite a long way from motorway junctions, and most sane motorway drivers, who just want to get from A to B as smoothly and easily as possible, won't even contemplate it. The only time I've ever done it was when I was forced to leave the motorway (between service stations) because of a stationary traffic name as a result of a pile-up. Seemed like a good idea to go and get a meal in a pub and attempt to get back on the motorway in c.90 minutes time. Better than sitting in a traffic jam.
I fear there is going to be a lot of unnecessary blood on people's (well, various stupid government ministers') hands very soon. Only hope I'm wrong.
What an incredible symbol of our present government's value-system this is!
> All pubs are near roads and not everyone at the services is a driver. Also, from my perspective, there would be no temptation because alcohol holds so little allure for me.
Well, fine. You are just the kind of person we don't have to worry about. But there is a surprisingly large swathe of the population who, while not technically alcoholics, are on that dangerous cusp, and have to be v careful and self-disciplined indeed, given their semi-addiction.
It is actually extremely awkward for any driver to go to a pub while en route on a motorway. Typically they are quite a long way from motorway junctions, and most sane motorway drivers, who just want to get from A to B as smoothly and easily as possible, won't even contemplate it. The only time I've ever done it was when I was forced to leave the motorway (between service stations) because of a stationary traffic name as a result of a pile-up. Seemed like a good idea to go and get a meal in a pub and attempt to get back on the motorway in c.90 minutes time. Better than sitting in a traffic jam.
> It doesn't seem like the most sensible step, and when something just seems like a bad idea, it usually is. However, there is money to be made so nothing else is really important, is it?
I fear there is going to be a lot of unnecessary blood on people's (well, various stupid government ministers') hands very soon. Only hope I'm wrong.
What an incredible symbol of our present government's value-system this is!
In reply to mcdougal:
Are they? That seems very odd - as if we're a kind of United States of Britain?
Are they? That seems very odd - as if we're a kind of United States of Britain?
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Yeah I dont see the problem. In Germany you can get a beer anywhere, and they are much stricter on DUI than in Britain, a lower limit etc but harsher fines..
Yeah I dont see the problem. In Germany you can get a beer anywhere, and they are much stricter on DUI than in Britain, a lower limit etc but harsher fines..
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I don't think national government gets involved in where people open pubs.
> Are they? That seems very odd - as if we're a kind of United States of Britain?
I don't think national government gets involved in where people open pubs.
In reply to The Lemming:
So you should be able to get DUI rates.. pre and post? Any Changes?
Personally I think DUI is going down.. anecdotally it seems more common in older people. But also in the states, where beer is much more restricted, I think its more common, but also more acceptable socially. I had a beer at one pub, said I was leaving, the bar maid said ' no a guy your size can have a few more'... you would NEVER hear that in the UK. Even out with students, academics 2-3 beers and driving was normal.
> I'm stupefied too. But then this was a logical (?) progression from selling booze at petrol stations on the highstreet.
>
So you should be able to get DUI rates.. pre and post? Any Changes?
Personally I think DUI is going down.. anecdotally it seems more common in older people. But also in the states, where beer is much more restricted, I think its more common, but also more acceptable socially. I had a beer at one pub, said I was leaving, the bar maid said ' no a guy your size can have a few more'... you would NEVER hear that in the UK. Even out with students, academics 2-3 beers and driving was normal.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I was in there today. Lots of TV camera crews and radio stations present. I heard about it on Radio 4 on the way down to a client and thought I'd pop in (for a coffee, before I get flamed!). Quite plush for a Wetherspoons.
I was in there today. Lots of TV camera crews and radio stations present. I heard about it on Radio 4 on the way down to a client and thought I'd pop in (for a coffee, before I get flamed!). Quite plush for a Wetherspoons.
In reply to Jonny2vests:
Why? Is there some physiological difference between the French and the British that I'm unaware of that makes the British less capable of driving after a glass of wine?
Why? Is there some physiological difference between the French and the British that I'm unaware of that makes the British less capable of driving after a glass of wine?
In reply to John2:
I think there's a pyschological difference that makes the British incapable of only drinking one glass of wine.
> Why? Is there some physiological difference between the French and the British that I'm unaware of that makes the British less capable of driving after a glass of wine?
I think there's a pyschological difference that makes the British incapable of only drinking one glass of wine.
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Its a lot of Northern Europe.. Germans, Danes, Swedes, Fins, Norwegians all like a good binge session in my experience.
Its a lot of Northern Europe.. Germans, Danes, Swedes, Fins, Norwegians all like a good binge session in my experience.
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Exactly. Amazing that this isn't obvious to everyone.
> I think there's a pyschological difference that makes the British incapable of only drinking one glass of wine.
Exactly. Amazing that this isn't obvious to everyone.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Sorry Gordan, this is clutching at straws.
> What an incredible symbol of our present government's value-system this is!
Sorry Gordan, this is clutching at straws.
In reply to IainRUK:
I can confirm the attitude in the US is as you say. I've just had 5 weeks out there and it was common place to see folk have 3 or 4 beers and then watch them walk out and get in the car. The testing proceedure the police use is mad too, touch your nose, walk in a straight line etc.
Drunk on an airplane is a huge social faux par too, makes the national news if anyone is pissed and the plane has to land and yet 24 hour bars and duty frees are at every departure lounge. I guess it shows a level of trust being placed upon the individual at these places which is good but even so, I wouldn't want to be the manager of the new 'spoons. Imagine someone having 2 pints then being involved in a huge pile up just after he left the services. The daily mail would want your balls on a spike.
Railstaff can't enter licensed premises while on duty which technically means we can't pop into the buffet on the station to buy a paper or a coffee. In fact, the driver and conductors train becomes licensed premises if a trolly gets on somewhere as they sell wine & cans. Its one of those strange BR by-laws that has never been reviewed.
On the subject of licensing, here in blackpool the council ruled a while back that due to the problems alcohol has caused this town, no new licenses would be granted, however 'spoons were granted a license for their new pub in the town. The council claimed they were exempt because 'they serve food too'. 'spoons seem to have a knack of pushing the right buttons to get licenses.
I can confirm the attitude in the US is as you say. I've just had 5 weeks out there and it was common place to see folk have 3 or 4 beers and then watch them walk out and get in the car. The testing proceedure the police use is mad too, touch your nose, walk in a straight line etc.
Drunk on an airplane is a huge social faux par too, makes the national news if anyone is pissed and the plane has to land and yet 24 hour bars and duty frees are at every departure lounge. I guess it shows a level of trust being placed upon the individual at these places which is good but even so, I wouldn't want to be the manager of the new 'spoons. Imagine someone having 2 pints then being involved in a huge pile up just after he left the services. The daily mail would want your balls on a spike.
Railstaff can't enter licensed premises while on duty which technically means we can't pop into the buffet on the station to buy a paper or a coffee. In fact, the driver and conductors train becomes licensed premises if a trolly gets on somewhere as they sell wine & cans. Its one of those strange BR by-laws that has never been reviewed.
On the subject of licensing, here in blackpool the council ruled a while back that due to the problems alcohol has caused this town, no new licenses would be granted, however 'spoons were granted a license for their new pub in the town. The council claimed they were exempt because 'they serve food too'. 'spoons seem to have a knack of pushing the right buttons to get licenses.
In reply to wilkie14c:
I know in OKC I was out with my colleague at a german pub, I didnt drive and he had a few litre sized strong beers and drove. And he said its OK as long as you drive OK, because the police cannot randomly stop you. In the UK for example they would regularly stop people late at night who are seen leaving pubs. I used to work in a few pubs in wales and sheffield and have been pulled over a fair few times just to the time I was driving.
I know in OKC I was out with my colleague at a german pub, I didnt drive and he had a few litre sized strong beers and drove. And he said its OK as long as you drive OK, because the police cannot randomly stop you. In the UK for example they would regularly stop people late at night who are seen leaving pubs. I used to work in a few pubs in wales and sheffield and have been pulled over a fair few times just to the time I was driving.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Really interesting debate this. Yes not really the best place to put a pub, but the bottom line is it's down to the individual to drive and/or drink. Most pubs are located on roads (of all types) so why should it make any difference because this ones located on a big road ?
Really interesting debate this. Yes not really the best place to put a pub, but the bottom line is it's down to the individual to drive and/or drink. Most pubs are located on roads (of all types) so why should it make any difference because this ones located on a big road ?
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
It actually isn't the first one. The Harvester at the M1-A50 junction (21A I think) serves alcohol and has for some time. It gets away with it by not actually being on the motorway, I believe - it's one of those services where you go off at the junction. (It is a proper services, though, not a standalone one)
Neil
It actually isn't the first one. The Harvester at the M1-A50 junction (21A I think) serves alcohol and has for some time. It gets away with it by not actually being on the motorway, I believe - it's one of those services where you go off at the junction. (It is a proper services, though, not a standalone one)
Neil
Post edited at 09:31
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Surely it's the best place for them, statistically motorways are the safest roads, so if you're going to drink and drive where better? And all the traffic goes in the same direction, that must make driving after a few much easier.
In reply to John2:
From the wonder that is wikipedia.
Road deaths per 100,000 per year in:
France 6.4
UK 2.75
All the usual caveats apply, but still quite a difference eh?
> French motorway service generally stations serve extremely edible food, with wine available if desired. It doesn't seem to result in mass carnage on their motorways.
From the wonder that is wikipedia.
Road deaths per 100,000 per year in:
France 6.4
UK 2.75
All the usual caveats apply, but still quite a difference eh?
In reply to seankenny:
Those figures are for 2010. The French have in recent years been making stringent efforts to improve their figures, including both reducing drink driving (it is now mandatory for a French driver to have a single-use breathalyser in his car) and reduction in speeding, which was historically very common.
Those figures are for 2010. The French have in recent years been making stringent efforts to improve their figures, including both reducing drink driving (it is now mandatory for a French driver to have a single-use breathalyser in his car) and reduction in speeding, which was historically very common.
In reply to seankenny:
I reckon they could get that figure down to the UK level if they find a cure for the overtaking disease.
E
I reckon they could get that figure down to the UK level if they find a cure for the overtaking disease.
E
In reply to John2:
Point taken. Still, I'd be surprised if they'd halved the rate in three or four years.
Point taken. Still, I'd be surprised if they'd halved the rate in three or four years.
In reply to wilkie14c:
Last time I was in Houston, I got stopped by the police in the early hours of the morning after going to a music club. There were two cop cars, and when I got out of the car a policewoman shouted at me to "get straight back in the car". I didn't argue, because she had a pistol pointed straight at me held with both hands. Then I was asked to "walk the line" (9 paces forward, turn round, nine paces back). I imagined that I was walking across a delicate slab. This got me through the test successfully. Strange how one's climbing experience can come to the rescue at unexpected moments!
Last time I was in Houston, I got stopped by the police in the early hours of the morning after going to a music club. There were two cop cars, and when I got out of the car a policewoman shouted at me to "get straight back in the car". I didn't argue, because she had a pistol pointed straight at me held with both hands. Then I was asked to "walk the line" (9 paces forward, turn round, nine paces back). I imagined that I was walking across a delicate slab. This got me through the test successfully. Strange how one's climbing experience can come to the rescue at unexpected moments!
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Think it was done to death in June last year, when it was announced it was going ahead:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/wetherspoons-to-open-uks-first-h...
Think it was done to death in June last year, when it was announced it was going ahead:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/wetherspoons-to-open-uks-first-h...
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Some perspective.
1. It is not in the middle of motorway nowhere, it is next to Beaconsfield (walking distance)
2. Is is next to a football club ground
3. There is a hotel nearby that only serves snacks.
4. It serves soft drinks and food as well as alcohol.
Some perspective.
1. It is not in the middle of motorway nowhere, it is next to Beaconsfield (walking distance)
2. Is is next to a football club ground
3. There is a hotel nearby that only serves snacks.
4. It serves soft drinks and food as well as alcohol.
Post edited at 10:45
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Pretty much all pubs are on roads and the vast majority of folk manage to get their beer and wine home from the supermarket without stopping in the car park to get pissed.
I guess it only make financial sense if there is a busy no-frills hotel on the site as there is at many motorway services.
jk
Pretty much all pubs are on roads and the vast majority of folk manage to get their beer and wine home from the supermarket without stopping in the car park to get pissed.
I guess it only make financial sense if there is a busy no-frills hotel on the site as there is at many motorway services.
jk
In reply to John Stainforth:
yeah you only try to get out of a car once... it's a huge no no, especially in TX..
yeah you only try to get out of a car once... it's a huge no no, especially in TX..
In reply to wilkie14c:
Do you think, I find the opposite, loads of strong IPA's.. like German beer, all 5-6%, where as UK ale is typically 3.5-5%..
> You were fine John because yank beer is like kiddies training beer
Do you think, I find the opposite, loads of strong IPA's.. like German beer, all 5-6%, where as UK ale is typically 3.5-5%..
In reply to jkarran:
There are usually M&S, Moto shops that sell beer, wine and spirits already. If you were determined you could probably get the alcohol cheaper at the shop than at the pub (which I believe has inflated alcohol prices and deflated soft drink prices).
> I guess it only make financial sense if there is a busy no-frills hotel on the site as there is at many motorway services.
> jk
There are usually M&S, Moto shops that sell beer, wine and spirits already. If you were determined you could probably get the alcohol cheaper at the shop than at the pub (which I believe has inflated alcohol prices and deflated soft drink prices).
In reply to John Stainforth:
I've known never to get out of the car when pulled over by police (until/unless requested to) since I started driving. I thought it was common knowledge! And common sense.
> when I got out of the car a policewoman shouted at me to "get straight back in the car".
I've known never to get out of the car when pulled over by police (until/unless requested to) since I started driving. I thought it was common knowledge! And common sense.
In reply to IainRUK:
I did personally yes but that mught have been due to where I was <CA> the IPA's were rank but I'm not a fan anyway. wife yank uncle calls budwieser bumwasher and corrs light screenwash! I found a mexican beer quite nice 'Dos Equis. Still, at $6 for a litre of vodka at walmart whos complaining?!
I did personally yes but that mught have been due to where I was <CA> the IPA's were rank but I'm not a fan anyway. wife yank uncle calls budwieser bumwasher and corrs light screenwash! I found a mexican beer quite nice 'Dos Equis. Still, at $6 for a litre of vodka at walmart whos complaining?!
In reply to wilkie14c:
yeah I drink Dos Equis in texas, they give it with the pint glass rim covered in salt. really nice.
Yeah the standard mass produced are weak, but there's actually also a huge micro-brewery industry now.
yeah I drink Dos Equis in texas, they give it with the pint glass rim covered in salt. really nice.
Yeah the standard mass produced are weak, but there's actually also a huge micro-brewery industry now.
In reply to IainRUK:
We got a box of dos equis and a poly box of ice from the walmat in Yucca and that night we watched the sunset sat ontop of jumble rocks watching the sunset. Joshua Tree and the Majove were magical, even Carlsberg would have tasted great that night.
We got a box of dos equis and a poly box of ice from the walmat in Yucca and that night we watched the sunset sat ontop of jumble rocks watching the sunset. Joshua Tree and the Majove were magical, even Carlsberg would have tasted great that night.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Afraid not! But it does Baggy Trousers and Not Home Today which are classics
Afraid not! But it does Baggy Trousers and Not Home Today which are classics
In reply to Blue Straggler:
It might be if they have a gun, but otherwise that probably wouldn't occur to me.
> I've known never to get out of the car when pulled over by police (until/unless requested to) since I started driving. I thought it was common knowledge! And common sense.
It might be if they have a gun, but otherwise that probably wouldn't occur to me.
Post edited at 12:09
In reply to wilkie14c:
Things could go tragically wrong if you drink according to that misconception.
I was pleasantly surprised by the number of great beers produced by small breweries. I was both surprised and a little wobbly when I realised that these beers tend to be significnatly stronger than their UK equivalents
> You were fine John because yank beer is like kiddies training beer
Things could go tragically wrong if you drink according to that misconception.
I was pleasantly surprised by the number of great beers produced by small breweries. I was both surprised and a little wobbly when I realised that these beers tend to be significnatly stronger than their UK equivalents
In reply to timjones:
in the main we were in Temecular which is like plastic city and not much chance of a decent beer at all. Grain alcohol from the indian reservations was good stuff though
in the main we were in Temecular which is like plastic city and not much chance of a decent beer at all. Grain alcohol from the indian reservations was good stuff though
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