UKC

As per the title, I am of the opinion that the Shawshank Redemption is a depressing film: Much like of Mice and Men it is far too dull to be inflicted on sane adults although apparently this makes me an awful human being.

Anyone care to back me up?

In reply to Reach>Talent:

I think it's all about the mix. Wall to wall 'happy zany rom coms' would quickly become depressing

In reply to Reach>Talent:

Quality of the acting is what made it watchable for me, a bit like the Railwayman last night.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

It's not depressing, it's just mawkish and manipulative pulp.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

Compared to 'Inside Llewyn Davis' it's a lighthearted, feelgood movie with a laugh a minute!

In reply to Reach>Talent:

Shawshank Redemption? Typical American lowest common denominator crap.

In reply to stroppygob:


Yeah, of course, only America churns out "lowest common denominator crap" :-/

In reply to Blue Straggler: Isn't all cinema manipulative, to one degree or another?

In reply to mkean, Blue Straggler and stroppygob:

Could not disagree more, Beautifully acted and a great storyline. Amazing movie.

In reply to Edradour:

Good acting and a bit of nicely lit scenery doesn't make up for an otherwise awful film. I mean it is not like "Transformers" would have suddenly been a great movie if Helen Mirren played the lead role.

In reply to Edradour:


Nah! Too syrupy, all ends tied up, everybody happy, audiences go home and hug apple pies. It needs more grit.
The amazing thing is that it is in the all time top 10 of quite a lot of folk.

In reply to Reach>Talent:


See, I didn't mind Transformers either. I wouldn't equate the two but for mindless entertainment it was fine.

I don't need to be 'challenged' by a film to enjoy it, I quite like a bit of escapism etc.

In reply to Edradour:

Amazing movie.

I thought it was OK till the stupid unbelievable ending. Yeah, he dug that tunnel with a spoon and no-one noticed. What? Oh right, there was a poster over it.

In reply to sbc_10:


Apart from the bloke who got murdered before he could testify about the lead character's innocence.
And Brooks who hanged himself.

But yes, it still manages to be too syrupy!

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Yes but there is a spectrum of manipulation!

In reply to Blue Straggler: And Shawshank is at the fat end?

I don't have a problem with the manipulation at all, I like a film that gets you to invest emotionally in it. With Shawshank, I was disappointed by the ending, but I enjoyed the rest.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

OK, fair enough, but it is a prison drama. People don't usually do a 99 year stretch for carol singing, so no surprise if a bit of poignant 'reality' creeps in. The plot devices were clunky and telegraphed, the denouement had no subtlety, no real surprise, it all dove-tailed rather too neatly for me.
Going through shit to get free....hmmmm??...how can we visualise that for the audience, I know lets crawl through a sewer pipe... etc etc...

In reply to Reach>Talent:

It's about hope over adversity.

Once you understand that, the film is uplifting.

In reply to aln:



And I'm still not sure how he managed to blu-tac that poster back to the wall once he'd shimmied through the hole...

In reply to ThunderCat:

Thank f*ck for that - I was beginning to think that I was the only person in the world who was bewildered by that piece of bollocks!

In reply to John Ww:


Nope. I've been bewildered for years by so many people liking it so much.

In reply to Blue Straggler:


Agreed, it's a sentimental Sunday matinee with a few bits of random nastiness. Cliched rather than classic.

In reply to Reach>Talent: http://m.youtube.com/results?q=how+I+wrote+elastic+man&sm=3

Watch this instead

In reply to Blue Straggler:

>> Shawshank Redemption? Typical American lowest common denominator crap.


They certainly are unique in churning out "American lowest common denominator crap", that's for sure.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

In fact I'm going to go out on a limb:

The Shawshank Redemption, less enjoyable than Battlefield Earth.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

It needs to be read before its watched. Although TSR is certainly the better of all of the Stephen King film adaptations there is a long run of poor ones.

Good - Stand by me <story - The body> Carrie <original, not remake> The shining <our own Mr Stainforth had a hand in its production!> The green mile

Poor - The stand, pet cemetery, the running man, Christine, Cujo, The dead zone

In reply to wilkie14c:

Pet Sematary is good, and Christine aint too bad. The mist would be good except the bad CGI. Shining great but King dislikes it. Carrie good. Not so big on ShawShank or Misery. One of IT adaptations is ok. just watched children of the corn this weekend, good too.

In reply to wilkie14c:

The Dead Zone is great as a standalone film. I don't know if it shapes up well as an adaptation as I have not read it.

How about this delight? I was sniffy enough, as a kid, to steer well clear. But now that I see Lisa Simpson is in it, I'm kind of interested
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091499/?ref_=nv_sr_1

In reply to Blue Straggler:
I remember Maximum Overdrive being terrible, but I saw it in the 80's (rented it on Betamax I think), it might be regarded as a classic these days (but I doubt it).

In reply to wilkie14c:

I thought the Green Mile was a dreadful film. I saw it unintentionally at an open air cinema when a friend took me out for the night.

The story was ludicrous, it relied on magic and the characters did not act as they should have done. Nice prison officer Tom Hanks just would not have stayed in his job on death row if he really had been as he was portrayed.

It was also revoltingly voyeuristic. I only stayed to the end because my friend was trying to be nice to me.

In reply to mbh:

I am studiously avoiding it, it looks dreadful. Mind you I spent 14 years avoiding The Talented Mr Ripley, on the same grounds, and watched it last night and it turned out to be ace...

In reply to sbc_10:




And swimming through hundreds of yard of shit, and the gang rapes, and the mental health issues, and the punishment or rehabilitation theme... yes, too syrupy.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

I quite enjoy it. Doesn't make my top 10, but it's probably in my top 25.

And to those who think it's far-fetched:
http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/fsd/story-20452972-detail/story.html

Sadly, poor Liam is no lawyer, although judging by his past record, he's probably met a few.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

Which is an unquestionable classic

In reply to ThunderCat:

I've got a simple exercise for you that will resolve this mystery.

1. Bluetac a poster to a wall with a piece of blutac in each corner (it does not need to have a hole in it)

2. carefully un-tac the bottom 2 corners of the poster and lift the botom of the poster up so it hinges on the top 2 pieces

3. imagine crawling through a hole under the hinged poster

4. let go of the poster - gravity will bring it back to where it started, and the blutac will re-tac

In reply to balmybaldwin:

worse films out there ,wolf of wall street is one

In reply to Phil1919:


Mandela is excellent in the supporting role.
youtube.com/watch?v=Lm-6RR4sLXw&

In reply to Fredt:

"Life is like a tunnel of shite" ......

isn't that a quote from it? Maybe I'm confusing it with Forest Gump.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

I think it is a great bit of old fashioned story telling. Incidentally my girlfriends Mum lives in Ashland, Ohio were some of the film was made.

In reply to The New NickB:

It and Green Mile are both very much in the spirit of the novellas they are based on. They are both well made and to me are good examples of Hollywood doing their job very well with both good box office and average critcal receipt. Ordinary folk will always have different opinions: someone bizzarly even prefers Battleship Earth which is up there in budget terms with the worst films ever made IMHO. You can be sure no media outlet will be employing them to review.

In reply to Offwidth:


I thought it was the other way around with Shawshank. Poor box office, seven Oscar nominations (no wins though), huge new lease of life on video.

In reply to balmybaldwin:






Odd that. Whenever I've blutaced something to a wall I've needed a bit of pressure from, say, a thumb. I've never known blu tac to 'self-tac'.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Ok the initial US cinema box office was just into profit but thats not so uncommon for films of that type (character based movies) It has made very steady money since in other countries and on video DVD and download.

In reply to Offwidth:

Does video etc. count as "box office" or does "box office" still literally mean "tickets sold over the counter at a cinema"?

Any comment on the critical reception? Did it really not get good reviews OR good cinema box office and still garner seven Oscar nominations?

In reply to ThunderCat:



I didn't know they had blu-tack in 50/60s America

In reply to Offwidth:
"The Shawshank Redemption, less enjoyable than Battlefield Earth."

I didn't say it was a good film, as it really doesn't have any redeeming features however it is more enjoyable than Shawshank "Several hours of nicely shot tedium" Redemption.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Box office as I said is normally reported as takings in US cinemas in a fixed time period after release. Hardly real world and here are a few good stories to show some other dirty tricks that relate to profit in tinstle town:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting

In reply to Offwidth:

Thanks, I know a lot of this stuff, I was just addressing your comment "good examples of Hollywood doing their job very well with both good box office and average critcal receipt" directly toward The Shawshank Redemption (I make no comment about The Green Mile)

In reply to Offwidth:

I am surprised that Wikipedia doesn't mention that Waterworld and Heaven's Gate "made money"

In reply to Reach>Talent:

don't watch any Mike Leigh then

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

Another Year is next on my pre-recorded list

In reply to sbc_10:


Wasn't the ending added on at the last minute? I hear it originally finished (look away if you've not seen it yet) with Red's bus heading towards the border and his voice-over saying 'I hope...', but because it was felt that people were rooting for confirmation of an ultimate reunion to make up for all the bad stuff that had happened to Andy they added on the last scene

In reply to Duncan Bourne:
.... and it was good ..... as was the recorded film I saw just before, Once Upon a Time in the Midlands, both very british bitter sweet character pieces that are about as far from a blockbuster Hollywood film as I guess you can get. With OUaTitM I get to play guess the Notts St as well

In reply to Offwidth:


Aside from being in English and having predominantly white casts eh?

In reply to Offwidth:

You really ought to see "The Act of killing"
documentary but don't let that put you off.
I am only saying that because it is best film I have seen, not most enjoyable, or favourite, or best acted, just simply, in my opinion, a film that defines what film is all about and justifies the whole invention of film in the first place.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

I was thinking about that as another example of something rather farther away from "Hollywood blockbuster" than the works of Leigh and Meadows.

On that note, I'd also recommend (to anyone that's listening) "Into the Abyss", the Werner Herzog documentary. I raved about it just over a year ago but now I think it would make a great double bill with The Act of Killing.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

will look that up

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Into the abyss was excellent, in fact I cant remember anything bad from Herzog.

Are you serious about the white actor stuff? I'd certainly defend Meadows in the social context of his films, he seems spot on to me. Nottingham used to be pretty polarised but its really a lot nicer these days even though different groups mix less often than might be ideal in a genuinely integrated community.

In reply to Offwidth:


Obviously not. I was stretching a point, to emphasise that Meadows and Leigh are not as far from "Hollywood blockbuster" as you claimed. Let's remove "white actor" if it's muddying the waters, and throw in "characters, dialogue, linear story arc, resolution" etc. and then compare a Leigh film to (say) Russian Ark or Holy Motors or Herzog's "Wodaabe"

In reply to Offwidth:


He kind of disowned Scream of Stone (I am fond of it though it is total Europudding).
"Invincible" didn't really work IMHO.
Bad Lieutenant: Port of New Orleans? Hmmm not sure.
Ditto Rescue Dawn, it certainly had its moments (and Steve Zahn was great), and was not "bad" as such, but didn't give the richness that I might have expected from Herzog. But I understand that he was just having a go at "playing", and fair enough to him for that.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Thought most of those were below his best but still good. Invincible is still waiting to be watched but was OK from reviews so I don't think any of those are bad. On the documentary front there is the very unremarkable Cave of Forgotten Dreams also not a bad film.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

FFS it's over-rated pish. Disneyfied prison rape'n'escape.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

Despicable me - however is brilliant

In reply to Reach>Talent:



Quite simply one of the greatest films ever made. If you don't like it, it's not because you have different tastes, it's because you're wrong and you've lost the ability to perceive. Or you like to pretend to dislike things that have wide appeal. Or both.

In reply to Jonny2vests:


Wow.

In reply to aln:

"It holds the top spot on the Internet Movie Database's list of the top 250 films. It was voted the best film not to have won an Academy Award in a 2004 Radio Times poll and again in 2008. It is ranked #1 on FilmCrave.com's top 100 movies list and it holds an extremely high score on Rotten Tomatoes within the community, at 98%." (List of films considered the best, Wikipedia).

So UKC not withstanding, it's not exactly controf*ckingversial now is it?

In reply to Jonny2vests:


It is actually - there are plenty of places, other than UKC, which question (with wisdom) all the big love for The Shawshank Redemption.

In reply to Blue Straggler:


I think you're a decent bloke, especially by UKC standards, but sometimes, when it comes to film, you sound like you might disappear up you're own hoop. Do you honestly think the wise internet sages out there, unravelling Shawshank in any way approach the vast numbers of normaloids like me who simply find it a joy to watch?

In reply to Jonny2vests:

Thanks for the compliment (seriously) but ultimately it shouldn't be about numbers. I know what you are saying about "unravelling" Shawshank but really it doesn't stand up to much unravelling.

HOWEVER...I don't think anyone sneers at people who like The Shawshank Redemption, whereas people sneer at people who like perfectly serviceable rom-coms e.g. Love Actually. This alone should tell you, hopefully, that even amongst us "up our own hoop" faux-intellectuals, there is a quiet respect for the craftsmanship of The Shawshank Redemption

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I enjoy Love Actually! It makes me laugh, a lot, especially Bill Nighy and his manager.

In contrast, I could not stand The Green Mile since it relied on hokum and the distasteful notion that you can be nice and work in the Tom Hanks role's job on death row. That is a lie. If it is a faithful rendition of the Stephen King novella, then that does not say much for the novella.

In reply to Blue Straggler:


or a secret joy of the lack of it in "Plan 9 from outer space"

In reply to mbh:


I'll recommend the aforementioned Werner Herzog film "Into the Abyss" to you. There is a scene in it which addresses exactly what you are stating here, and it very very nearly had me in tears. In the best sense of it.

In reply to Reach>Talent:
Bloody great film and perfect ending.

In reply to Getthenet:

I think it's a great film, but the ending would have been so much better without the very final scene.

**spoiler alert**

It would have been much better if it ended with the bus driving away and Red saying "I hope", rather than seeing the two of them re-united. Sometimes an ending that's left hanging can work so much better, as I think would have been the case here.

*****


I really like the film; good script with a good story primarily about hope, and good performances for the three main parts.

In reply to mbh:

You maybe need to meet more small town americans. Tom Hanks in the Green Mile seems very believable to me. There are lots of nice folk with very odd ideas from a modern liberal perspective.

In reply to Blue Straggler

I might believe you won't be looking down your nose at those liking Shawshank but I won't believe some others. Johnny is right about the film's broad appeal despite divided critics so not everyone who likes it is stupid or naive.

Saw Invincible yesterday: it was quite odd but again I liked it.... a very 'Herzog' handling of an extended fable.

In reply to Offwidth:

I thought the only real "Herzog" aspect of Invincible was in his casting of a strongman as a strongman, and a pianist as a pianist

In reply to Byronius Maximus:

There's a few films like that. It can help if you are able to pretend that (regardless of the film-makers' intentions) the happy resolution may still be a character fantasy.

I believe the end of Jane Campion's "The Piano" may have been intended to be this way and it was overlooked (Holly Hunter is rescued from drowning when the piano falls off a boat and she is dragged into the sea with it...and it shows her in a new life with Harvey Keitel and a metal prosthetic finger, teaching piano....but then the final shot is a return to her hanging motionless in the sea. Was that a memory of her near-death, or was that the reality and has the new life simply been her dying fantasy? I'd need to watch the film again and check how the editing works)

In Shawshank there is no ambiguity, but you COULD pretend

In reply to Byronius Maximus:



I liked the really old guy, "Brooks". Great actor, James Whitmore.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

John Stienbeck is an absolutly brilliant writer and it takes people with a little patience to fully grasp some of the imagery and ideas he portrays. The grapes of wrath is without a doubt a dark read but it puts you in the position of these people and makes you feel how they felt. it made you feel depressed did it well it made you feel. That is my point now why don't you go home and mummy can read you thomas the tank engine.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

It's starting NOW on ITV2

In reply to Reach>Talent:

Although I really recommend Run,Fat Boy Run on Film 4 also starting now for something less "Dull and Depressing"