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This has often intrigued me. You go to the States or Canada or Europe and the quality of customer service across the board is a cut above that in Britain.
Is it simply an issue about playing peanuts to staff who are therefore less inclined to do more than just get through their shift? Surely this is a false economy way to run a business; you save on wages, but lose on profits.
Is it a cultural thing, that makes us cold Brits unwilling to go the extra yard (yet alone the extra mile) for people we don't know? They bend over backwards to make the customer think they are important and that their custom matters.
It seems to happen more and more, in shops, over the phone, at sports centres, at ski centres etc etc.
Not a troll. But after some truly pish customer service at one Scotland's well known outdoor centres today, I am puzzled as to why businesses don't seem to care if employees have no interest in providing a good service to the customer. It just can't be good business sense to neglect customer service.
Post edited at 21:29
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
I don't think it's nearly as true now as it used to be. I've experienced lots of places with good service recently.
I don't think it's nearly as true now as it used to be. I've experienced lots of places with good service recently.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
Last Monday I sent my out-of-warranty Garmin watch back to them as it had gone wrong. By Thursday afternoon a replacement had arrived.
I'd say that's pretty good service.
It's definitely not all good, but neither is it all bad
Last Monday I sent my out-of-warranty Garmin watch back to them as it had gone wrong. By Thursday afternoon a replacement had arrived.
I'd say that's pretty good service.
It's definitely not all good, but neither is it all bad
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
I don't agree I have had brilliant and crap service in the UK and I have had brilliant and crap service abroad just this past week I have received brilliant customer service from many different types of business in Liverpool.
cafes to restaurant to supermarkets to taxis and today a major electrical retailer honouring my mistake and providing a service and a product above that of what I actually paid for.
I don't agree I have had brilliant and crap service in the UK and I have had brilliant and crap service abroad just this past week I have received brilliant customer service from many different types of business in Liverpool.
cafes to restaurant to supermarkets to taxis and today a major electrical retailer honouring my mistake and providing a service and a product above that of what I actually paid for.
Post edited at 22:13
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
Last time I was in the Uk I found that customer service was pretty poor, unless you were being served by an East European.
Last time I was in the Uk I found that customer service was pretty poor, unless you were being served by an East European.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
It's a mixed bag but probably generally worse than North America.
That said I bought some mountaineering boots a few weeks ago from a shop in the Peak District and the service was genuinely amazing - the guy knew everything there was to know about the products and offered loads of helpful advice.
It's a mixed bag but probably generally worse than North America.
That said I bought some mountaineering boots a few weeks ago from a shop in the Peak District and the service was genuinely amazing - the guy knew everything there was to know about the products and offered loads of helpful advice.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
This has often intrigued me too. As others have said the UK comes off poorly [in general/ generalising] compared to much of the the USA, Japan, and some other countries.
My guess is it's a combination of 'cultural thing', and staff training or maybe lack of it.
> This has often intrigued me... Is it a cultural thing, that makes us cold Brits unwilling to go the extra yard (yet alone the extra mile) for people we don't know?...
This has often intrigued me too. As others have said the UK comes off poorly [in general/ generalising] compared to much of the the USA, Japan, and some other countries.
My guess is it's a combination of 'cultural thing', and staff training or maybe lack of it.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
So Scotland's the problem. Not Britain
> Not a troll. But after some truly pish customer service at one Scotland's well known outdoor centres today,
So Scotland's the problem. Not Britain
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
I'm not sure how true this is but I've heard a few people say that the expectations are different in the UK, customers want "genuine" service as opposed to happy, smiley, follow you round the shop and treat you like royalty kind of service.
I also think there's a big difference between retail and catering, my experience is that a lot of people begrudge being "served" in shops. To the extent that often a cheery "hello, how are you?" will be met with an aggressive "I'm just looking", a sarcastic "is it ok if I just look?" or often just being blanked entirely. The British just don't like being served in shops unless it's absolutely necessary (like the sketch in Black Books - "I'm sick of being hounded by sales staff..."). Next time you're in a big department store stand by the door for a few minutes and watch the reactions that customers give the poor sod whose job it is to stand at the door and greet people as they come in. Most people ignore them. I think a lot of people don't really want the kind of service that might be the norm in other countries.
The other thing is, in the UK sales assistants and waiting staff are the bottom of the pile in terms of social standing, below cleaners, bin men, street sweepers in terms of wages and it's generally seen as a job that people do if they can't do anything else. I'm not sure what this is like in other countries but I know when I've worked with French people in the catering industry it's been their profession and they've been proud of being good at their job. Working in a good restaurant is hard, long stressful hours, a mental mind f*ck remembering what table got their food when etc. and a lot is asked of you in terms of knowledge of food and wine. plus if you're not from a posh background then there's a lot of ridiculous social etiquette to learn and keep up to. Then you're paid minimum wage, expected to work in poor conditions, expected to work evenings/holidays/christmas etc., talked down to by the chefs and the customers and often have zero job security.
The service industry is full of people who don't want to be there because it doesn't offer anyone anything other than poor working conditions, low wages and a deep desire to get the f*ck out before you end up like the withered managers above you. Combine that with the cultural element of where service staff are placed on the social scale, the lack of job security and the volume of wankers that they've served before you walk in and it's no wonder that service is often hit and miss.
I'm not sure how true this is but I've heard a few people say that the expectations are different in the UK, customers want "genuine" service as opposed to happy, smiley, follow you round the shop and treat you like royalty kind of service.
I also think there's a big difference between retail and catering, my experience is that a lot of people begrudge being "served" in shops. To the extent that often a cheery "hello, how are you?" will be met with an aggressive "I'm just looking", a sarcastic "is it ok if I just look?" or often just being blanked entirely. The British just don't like being served in shops unless it's absolutely necessary (like the sketch in Black Books - "I'm sick of being hounded by sales staff..."). Next time you're in a big department store stand by the door for a few minutes and watch the reactions that customers give the poor sod whose job it is to stand at the door and greet people as they come in. Most people ignore them. I think a lot of people don't really want the kind of service that might be the norm in other countries.
The other thing is, in the UK sales assistants and waiting staff are the bottom of the pile in terms of social standing, below cleaners, bin men, street sweepers in terms of wages and it's generally seen as a job that people do if they can't do anything else. I'm not sure what this is like in other countries but I know when I've worked with French people in the catering industry it's been their profession and they've been proud of being good at their job. Working in a good restaurant is hard, long stressful hours, a mental mind f*ck remembering what table got their food when etc. and a lot is asked of you in terms of knowledge of food and wine. plus if you're not from a posh background then there's a lot of ridiculous social etiquette to learn and keep up to. Then you're paid minimum wage, expected to work in poor conditions, expected to work evenings/holidays/christmas etc., talked down to by the chefs and the customers and often have zero job security.
The service industry is full of people who don't want to be there because it doesn't offer anyone anything other than poor working conditions, low wages and a deep desire to get the f*ck out before you end up like the withered managers above you. Combine that with the cultural element of where service staff are placed on the social scale, the lack of job security and the volume of wankers that they've served before you walk in and it's no wonder that service is often hit and miss.
In reply to imkevinmc:
Either that or the OP lives in Scotland, but there's no real way of working that one out without asking him...
> So Scotland's the problem. Not Britain
Either that or the OP lives in Scotland, but there's no real way of working that one out without asking him...
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
I think its a fine line and we as Brits like to moan if it slips too far either way.
As was mentioned in the UK we have a deep cynicism of insincerity when it comes to customer service, but as someone once said, would you rather be told 'have a nice day' by somebody who didn't mean it, that 'f*ck off' by somebody who did?
I live in France and have generally found the customer service at least a good as in the UK. Generally sales and catering staff are friendly and helpful so long as you're courteous and civil in return - even though they're dependent on you for their livelihood they're not your personal serf.
I'd rather have the cheery 'Welcome to Atlanta' greeters of US airports than the stern commands from the immigration assistants at UK airports. Equally though, when I'm checking into my hotel I don't want to be told 'you have a spectacular stay!' in a massively loud and enthusiastic voice so common in the US - I don't want to be their friend, I just want to get to my room.
I think on balance in the UK we have it about right, but the bad examples tend to stick in your mind and make it seem more of a problem than it really is.
I think its a fine line and we as Brits like to moan if it slips too far either way.
As was mentioned in the UK we have a deep cynicism of insincerity when it comes to customer service, but as someone once said, would you rather be told 'have a nice day' by somebody who didn't mean it, that 'f*ck off' by somebody who did?
I live in France and have generally found the customer service at least a good as in the UK. Generally sales and catering staff are friendly and helpful so long as you're courteous and civil in return - even though they're dependent on you for their livelihood they're not your personal serf.
I'd rather have the cheery 'Welcome to Atlanta' greeters of US airports than the stern commands from the immigration assistants at UK airports. Equally though, when I'm checking into my hotel I don't want to be told 'you have a spectacular stay!' in a massively loud and enthusiastic voice so common in the US - I don't want to be their friend, I just want to get to my room.
I think on balance in the UK we have it about right, but the bad examples tend to stick in your mind and make it seem more of a problem than it really is.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
It's because more and more people think they're special, wonderful and the most important person in the world. When you are this person it's rather hard to put someone else first especially when you're only where you are while you wait for the rest of the world to realise how amazing you are and discover you on X-factor or similar.
Cheers
Toby
It's because more and more people think they're special, wonderful and the most important person in the world. When you are this person it's rather hard to put someone else first especially when you're only where you are while you wait for the rest of the world to realise how amazing you are and discover you on X-factor or similar.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
Agree with some of the others, I always find customer service in the UK pretty good to great in comparison to Finland, which is much better than it was but still has a long way to go!
Agree with some of the others, I always find customer service in the UK pretty good to great in comparison to Finland, which is much better than it was but still has a long way to go!
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
If you think it is bad in Paris, you should try Liverpool. Bad service with attitude.
> If you think it's bad in Britain you should try Paris
If you think it is bad in Paris, you should try Liverpool. Bad service with attitude.
In reply to imkevinmc:
i started a thread recently based on my (australian) wifes assertion that customer service was much better in scotland than in england. funny how everybody has a different perception.
> So Scotland's the problem. Not Britain
i started a thread recently based on my (australian) wifes assertion that customer service was much better in scotland than in england. funny how everybody has a different perception.
In reply to Sharp:
That is a good point actually. Generally, I feel that service is pretty good in the UK. But I hate being asked if I need any help packing my shopping at the supermarket. It is the fact that the checkout person has clearly been made to say it regardless of who they are serving. Good service is not about running through a check list.
> my experience is that a lot of people begrudge being "served" in shops. To the extent that often a cheery "hello, how are you?" will be met with an aggressive "I'm just looking", a sarcastic "is it ok if I just look?" or often just being blanked entirely.
That is a good point actually. Generally, I feel that service is pretty good in the UK. But I hate being asked if I need any help packing my shopping at the supermarket. It is the fact that the checkout person has clearly been made to say it regardless of who they are serving. Good service is not about running through a check list.
In reply to Sharp:
Agree with all of Ben's points. Would add that some people have ridiculously high expectations from people generally paid minimum wage with zero prospects and little training. This has come up before, but I used to work in a shop that had literally thousands of stock lines and some people would get the hump if you didn't know the technical details of any particular item.
FWIW, some of the best service I have had has been in the UK and some of the worst in the States, although overall it probably is better there.
Agree with all of Ben's points. Would add that some people have ridiculously high expectations from people generally paid minimum wage with zero prospects and little training. This has come up before, but I used to work in a shop that had literally thousands of stock lines and some people would get the hump if you didn't know the technical details of any particular item.
FWIW, some of the best service I have had has been in the UK and some of the worst in the States, although overall it probably is better there.
In reply to ByEek:
Me too, it makes me wonder if I really look that old! On the other hand comparing Tesco's with Carrefour in France there's no doubt which gives better service. Simple things like the place to sort out till mistakes usually involves a long queue in France, and often the place to take goods back is tucked well away so the other customers can't see you moaning I suppose. Britain isn't too bad in general but this is helped by the legal responsibility of the retailer, in France you often get told you need to take up the problem with the manufacturer...
A famous climbing shop in Paris is notoriously bad, how about refusing to deal with a pocket zip on a ski-jacket, broken after one week's use? Not covered by the guarantee they said, we can have it repaired for you for a charge but before we can take it you must provide proof of dry-cleaning before giving it too us! Many times I've sworn never to return but they are about the only one there is.
> But I hate being asked if I need any help packing my shopping at the supermarket.
Me too, it makes me wonder if I really look that old! On the other hand comparing Tesco's with Carrefour in France there's no doubt which gives better service. Simple things like the place to sort out till mistakes usually involves a long queue in France, and often the place to take goods back is tucked well away so the other customers can't see you moaning I suppose. Britain isn't too bad in general but this is helped by the legal responsibility of the retailer, in France you often get told you need to take up the problem with the manufacturer...
A famous climbing shop in Paris is notoriously bad, how about refusing to deal with a pocket zip on a ski-jacket, broken after one week's use? Not covered by the guarantee they said, we can have it repaired for you for a charge but before we can take it you must provide proof of dry-cleaning before giving it too us! Many times I've sworn never to return but they are about the only one there is.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
You live in the EU - you can shop anywhere in Europe online! Go try stuff on in this sh1t shop and then order online.
You live in the EU - you can shop anywhere in Europe online! Go try stuff on in this sh1t shop and then order online.
In reply to ByEek:
If you were a store manager, which people would you tell your check out operatives to offer help in packing?
Blanket coverage probably causes less offence on the whole.
If you were a store manager, which people would you tell your check out operatives to offer help in packing?
Blanket coverage probably causes less offence on the whole.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
Having worked retail in both the UK, USA and Canada I find the main problem is the attitude of customer and staff member. If you get a surly staff member in the UK the customer will finish their business, go away and mutter and mumble about it forever more. Only when it is a really major problem, the good they bought being unfit for use do the UK customers complain. In USA and Canada, if a staff member is surly/unhelpful or whatever, the customer is quick to ask for a manager and raise the point. New staff are easy to come by. For this reason staff will try hard to make a customer happy. There is also the point that in the USA and Canada, catering staff are more dependant on tips to boost a poor paypacket, and so work harder to please customers who will withhold tips if they are not happy. In the UK people give tips regardless and then do their mutterings outside the place.
I generally found customers expected better service and were more cheerful about it in the USA and Canada. In the UK most customers are miserable and just looking for an excuse to grumble in the pub.
Maybe we Brits should complain to floor management, who should be on hand more frequently. Often in my local supermarket, the customer service desk will say the manager is not available, and that there is not a problem with person/product X. I have never yet had a call back, even when promised. This big supermarket chain does not even have a way of complaining to head office, that can be found in the store or on the internet, so complaints get lost at the local level.
Having worked retail in both the UK, USA and Canada I find the main problem is the attitude of customer and staff member. If you get a surly staff member in the UK the customer will finish their business, go away and mutter and mumble about it forever more. Only when it is a really major problem, the good they bought being unfit for use do the UK customers complain. In USA and Canada, if a staff member is surly/unhelpful or whatever, the customer is quick to ask for a manager and raise the point. New staff are easy to come by. For this reason staff will try hard to make a customer happy. There is also the point that in the USA and Canada, catering staff are more dependant on tips to boost a poor paypacket, and so work harder to please customers who will withhold tips if they are not happy. In the UK people give tips regardless and then do their mutterings outside the place.
I generally found customers expected better service and were more cheerful about it in the USA and Canada. In the UK most customers are miserable and just looking for an excuse to grumble in the pub.
Maybe we Brits should complain to floor management, who should be on hand more frequently. Often in my local supermarket, the customer service desk will say the manager is not available, and that there is not a problem with person/product X. I have never yet had a call back, even when promised. This big supermarket chain does not even have a way of complaining to head office, that can be found in the store or on the internet, so complaints get lost at the local level.
Post edited at 10:33
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
The worst customer service I have had is in France. This might be because I'm pretty bad at French, but my English isn't much better really to be honest.
The worst customer service I have had is in France. This might be because I'm pretty bad at French, but my English isn't much better really to be honest.
In reply to Tom Valentine:
I would like to hope that I could hire people and then motivate them to exercise their own common sense on the matter. In a climbing shop situation, there is nothing wrong with saying "Hi" to everyone who walks in the shop and you can tell instantly from their reaction if they want help or want to be alone.
In the supermarket situation, someone in head office has decided that to distinguish themselves from the competition they will make all their checkout staff ask everyone if they want help packing even though culturally in this country, we have always packed our own bags. It is quite an intrusive shift that has little or no value. If they are going to have a packing service, have people standing there to pack your bags, as they do in our local World Food supermarket, but simply asking doesn't make anything better, especially if everyone took up the offer and let the checkout person pack your bags for you, holding up everyone behind.
> If you were a store manager, which people would you tell your check out operatives to offer help in packing?
I would like to hope that I could hire people and then motivate them to exercise their own common sense on the matter. In a climbing shop situation, there is nothing wrong with saying "Hi" to everyone who walks in the shop and you can tell instantly from their reaction if they want help or want to be alone.
In the supermarket situation, someone in head office has decided that to distinguish themselves from the competition they will make all their checkout staff ask everyone if they want help packing even though culturally in this country, we have always packed our own bags. It is quite an intrusive shift that has little or no value. If they are going to have a packing service, have people standing there to pack your bags, as they do in our local World Food supermarket, but simply asking doesn't make anything better, especially if everyone took up the offer and let the checkout person pack your bags for you, holding up everyone behind.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
I think there is a tendency to confuse the demeanor of the staff with the actual service being offered. There is no doubt that in the US and Canada, there are certainly more smiley faces around but when you actually need service, like when something goes wrong, I don't think you get better service there than here to be honest.
I think there is a tendency to confuse the demeanor of the staff with the actual service being offered. There is no doubt that in the US and Canada, there are certainly more smiley faces around but when you actually need service, like when something goes wrong, I don't think you get better service there than here to be honest.
In reply to Sharp:
Not a troll. But after some truly pish customer service at one Scotland's well known outdoor centres today,
Is what OP said.
Not a troll. But after some truly pish customer service at one Scotland's well known outdoor centres today,
Is what OP said.
Post edited at 15:13
In reply to Sharp:
pretty much as stated
1/ we're more cyncial / less naive. We want good service but we know a lot of 'good' service is just really an attempt to sell us something and so don't trust it, don't want it, and can react pretty badly to it (ie. not the happy, smiley stuff - in the US a lot of customer service workers would thank you for spitting in their face rather than break the act).
2/ there are very few career barman / waiters / shop assistants in the UK where there are more so in many other countries (those that are known for 'good' customer service).
I've been all 3 in the past, and would love to be a career barman or run a bar, but there's no way to work up in it. You get paid minimum wage, get very few tips compared to other countries, get paid until 'time' or half hour after but often end up working an extra hour clearing up. You get treated badly a lot of the time. It's considerably harder to make money even running a pub, and so not only is that eventual hope removed but the landlords tend to do less for the staff (lockins, drink at the end of the night, stuff that used t be more common place.
As an assistant manager you tend to work still on minimum wage but getting paid for 40 hrs while working closer to 80, with absolutely no guarantee the brewery will actually ever find you a manager's place.
There's a few good big chains (mainly wetherspoons) which have good training systems now and you can rise up the ranks and get rewarded, but as they're cheap and cheerful pubs you might get the rewards for working hard, but it comes with more grief from the customers (Wetherspoon's customers being the worst I've ever seen for complaining, being rude, being frankly despicable).
> I'm not sure how true this is but I've heard a few people say that the expectations are different in the UK, customers want "genuine" service as opposed to happy, smiley, follow you round the shop and treat you like royalty kind of service.
> I also think there's a big difference between retail and catering, my experience is that a lot of people begrudge being "served" in shops. To the extent that often a cheery "hello, how are you?" will be met with an aggressive "I'm just looking", a sarcastic "is it ok if I just look?" or often just being blanked entirely. The British just don't like being served in shops unless it's absolutely necessary (like the sketch in Black Books - "I'm sick of being hounded by sales staff..."). Next time you're in a big department store stand by the door for a few minutes and watch the reactions that customers give the poor sod whose job it is to stand at the door and greet people as they come in. Most people ignore them. I think a lot of people don't really want the kind of service that might be the norm in other countries.
> The other thing is, in the UK sales assistants and waiting staff are the bottom of the pile in terms of social standing, below cleaners, bin men, street sweepers in terms of wages and it's generally seen as a job that people do if they can't do anything else. I'm not sure what this is like in other countries but I know when I've worked with French people in the catering industry it's been their profession and they've been proud of being good at their job. Working in a good restaurant is hard, long stressful hours, a mental mind f*ck remembering what table got their food when etc. and a lot is asked of you in terms of knowledge of food and wine. plus if you're not from a posh background then there's a lot of ridiculous social etiquette to learn and keep up to. Then you're paid minimum wage, expected to work in poor conditions, expected to work evenings/holidays/christmas etc., talked down to by the chefs and the customers and often have zero job security.
> The service industry is full of people who don't want to be there because it doesn't offer anyone anything other than poor working conditions, low wages and a deep desire to get the f*ck out before you end up like the withered managers above you. Combine that with the cultural element of where service staff are placed on the social scale, the lack of job security and the volume of wankers that they've served before you walk in and it's no wonder that service is often hit and miss.
pretty much as stated
1/ we're more cyncial / less naive. We want good service but we know a lot of 'good' service is just really an attempt to sell us something and so don't trust it, don't want it, and can react pretty badly to it (ie. not the happy, smiley stuff - in the US a lot of customer service workers would thank you for spitting in their face rather than break the act).
2/ there are very few career barman / waiters / shop assistants in the UK where there are more so in many other countries (those that are known for 'good' customer service).
I've been all 3 in the past, and would love to be a career barman or run a bar, but there's no way to work up in it. You get paid minimum wage, get very few tips compared to other countries, get paid until 'time' or half hour after but often end up working an extra hour clearing up. You get treated badly a lot of the time. It's considerably harder to make money even running a pub, and so not only is that eventual hope removed but the landlords tend to do less for the staff (lockins, drink at the end of the night, stuff that used t be more common place.
As an assistant manager you tend to work still on minimum wage but getting paid for 40 hrs while working closer to 80, with absolutely no guarantee the brewery will actually ever find you a manager's place.
There's a few good big chains (mainly wetherspoons) which have good training systems now and you can rise up the ranks and get rewarded, but as they're cheap and cheerful pubs you might get the rewards for working hard, but it comes with more grief from the customers (Wetherspoon's customers being the worst I've ever seen for complaining, being rude, being frankly despicable).
In reply to imkevinmc:
Yeah I read that, I just didn't think it was noteworthy that he was shopping in a Scottish shop...given that he lives in Scotland.
> Not a troll. But after some truly pish customer service at one Scotland's well known outdoor centres today,
> Is what OP said.
Yeah I read that, I just didn't think it was noteworthy that he was shopping in a Scottish shop...given that he lives in Scotland.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
I remember noticing in Thailand how good the customer service was; how proud people were of their shops, how they went out of their way to help.
It struck me that it was a good job to work in a shop in Thailand, whereas it's seen as low-status here by staff and customers alike, so they give less of a shit.
I remember noticing in Thailand how good the customer service was; how proud people were of their shops, how they went out of their way to help.
It struck me that it was a good job to work in a shop in Thailand, whereas it's seen as low-status here by staff and customers alike, so they give less of a shit.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
My simple answer to the op is that we seem most concerned about how much we are paying than where and from who we buy it. Hence stores concentrate on getting price down, not customer service. Which is why in places like sports direct, most of the staff are younger than the minimum wage higher wage, and probably have a playing footie in the parc with his mates by way of experience in the goods they sell.
Imo this is fine for a lot of purchases, but not for specialist shops. I wouldnt buy climbing gear from ebay or tesco as ive got noway of verifying their quality or I might not be aware of other options etc. I pay a bit more at a climbing shop, but it comes with good service, advice on what to buy e.g. are curve nuts best for certain rock types etc and whilst I now posses that info myself, it was valuable when I wasnew to climbing. Now I go in there for a chat, and make contacts for climbing partners, or get advice on destinations etc. All of which is easily worth the few quid extra I pay for gear.
My simple answer to the op is that we seem most concerned about how much we are paying than where and from who we buy it. Hence stores concentrate on getting price down, not customer service. Which is why in places like sports direct, most of the staff are younger than the minimum wage higher wage, and probably have a playing footie in the parc with his mates by way of experience in the goods they sell.
Imo this is fine for a lot of purchases, but not for specialist shops. I wouldnt buy climbing gear from ebay or tesco as ive got noway of verifying their quality or I might not be aware of other options etc. I pay a bit more at a climbing shop, but it comes with good service, advice on what to buy e.g. are curve nuts best for certain rock types etc and whilst I now posses that info myself, it was valuable when I wasnew to climbing. Now I go in there for a chat, and make contacts for climbing partners, or get advice on destinations etc. All of which is easily worth the few quid extra I pay for gear.
Post edited at 18:28
In reply to ByEek:
Surely you would give guidelines?
Common sense is actually a very variable "resource" and a bit of a cop out when things go askew.
Surely you would give guidelines?
Common sense is actually a very variable "resource" and a bit of a cop out when things go askew.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
I think your completely wrong about this. Having just got back from Canada it's easy to be fooled into thinking your getting great service by an overly smily face and friendly attitude, but when you actually have a problem with a product the UK beats them hands down for getting it sorted. Some Canadian companies have built great customer relations reputations providing the sort of service we expect as standard here.
I think your completely wrong about this. Having just got back from Canada it's easy to be fooled into thinking your getting great service by an overly smily face and friendly attitude, but when you actually have a problem with a product the UK beats them hands down for getting it sorted. Some Canadian companies have built great customer relations reputations providing the sort of service we expect as standard here.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
A great (if small) example of excellent service this morning. When I got of the bus at my local bus station I felt hungry so thought I'd go into the little cafe there. It was surprisingly full and when I ordered a breakfast the lady behind the counter apologised that because she was so busy it would take ten minutes - is that OK? I said fine. I was brought a large mug of coffee almost immediately and the meal itself arrived scarcely five minutes later: bacon, egg, sausage, tomato, beans and toast - all perfectly done, very clean etc. All (inc. the coffee) for the princely sum of ..
£3.60
Unbelievable and brilliant. Nice people. Comfortable etc.
A great (if small) example of excellent service this morning. When I got of the bus at my local bus station I felt hungry so thought I'd go into the little cafe there. It was surprisingly full and when I ordered a breakfast the lady behind the counter apologised that because she was so busy it would take ten minutes - is that OK? I said fine. I was brought a large mug of coffee almost immediately and the meal itself arrived scarcely five minutes later: bacon, egg, sausage, tomato, beans and toast - all perfectly done, very clean etc. All (inc. the coffee) for the princely sum of ..
£3.60
Unbelievable and brilliant. Nice people. Comfortable etc.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
I ordered something recently and when I got around to opening the box after a couple if weeks there were parts missing. Got in touch, no problems they said and they went out if their way to keep me updated and get the missing parts to me, no questions asked.
A few years back bought an off-road light from local bike shop. First ride and the cable ripped out of the light, water got in, and it clearly wasn't up to job. They refunded me gave a £10 credit for the trouble and let me order a different light.
Recent storms blew part of my fence down. Had a few company's around. Quite a spread of service from one guy who turned up to quote on time, discussed what I wanted done, was honest about what did and didn't need doing, gave me an honest assessment as to how early he could start the work to some who didn't bother coming, some who couldn't be bothered saying what their quote covered etc. naturally I went with my instincts at the quoting stage and was not disappointed by his work ethic. He's now my recommended tradesman for that kind of stuff. I suspect his business will survive.
Like others have said, when things go wrong, which they occasionally do, you really find out who wants your business and recommendation and who doesn't .
I ordered something recently and when I got around to opening the box after a couple if weeks there were parts missing. Got in touch, no problems they said and they went out if their way to keep me updated and get the missing parts to me, no questions asked.
A few years back bought an off-road light from local bike shop. First ride and the cable ripped out of the light, water got in, and it clearly wasn't up to job. They refunded me gave a £10 credit for the trouble and let me order a different light.
Recent storms blew part of my fence down. Had a few company's around. Quite a spread of service from one guy who turned up to quote on time, discussed what I wanted done, was honest about what did and didn't need doing, gave me an honest assessment as to how early he could start the work to some who didn't bother coming, some who couldn't be bothered saying what their quote covered etc. naturally I went with my instincts at the quoting stage and was not disappointed by his work ethic. He's now my recommended tradesman for that kind of stuff. I suspect his business will survive.
Like others have said, when things go wrong, which they occasionally do, you really find out who wants your business and recommendation and who doesn't .
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
You should be proud, it is because our waiters are not desperate!
America has great coustemer service because it's waiters need tips.
You should be proud, it is because our waiters are not desperate!
America has great coustemer service because it's waiters need tips.
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Well, I didn't want tea. I forget to mention: there was quite lot of mushrooms too.
> Coffee? With a cooked breakfast?
Well, I didn't want tea. I forget to mention: there was quite lot of mushrooms too.
In reply to ByEek:
I've often said yes to the help with packing so that while I'm still loading stuff onto the conveyor belt some of my shopping is starting to be packed, and then gone and done the rest of the packing once my trolly is empty of my shopping.
I don't find it even 0.00000001 intrusive. ()
> In the supermarket situation, someone in head office has decided that to distinguish themselves from the competition they will make all their checkout staff ask everyone if they want help packing even though culturally in this country, we have always packed our own bags. It is quite an intrusive shift that has little or no value. If they are going to have a packing service, have people standing there to pack your bags, as they do in our local World Food supermarket, but simply asking doesn't make anything better, especially if everyone took up the offer and let the checkout person pack your bags for you, holding up everyone behind.
I've often said yes to the help with packing so that while I'm still loading stuff onto the conveyor belt some of my shopping is starting to be packed, and then gone and done the rest of the packing once my trolly is empty of my shopping.
I don't find it even 0.00000001 intrusive. ()
Post edited at 21:01
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
My daughter's worked in hospitality whilst at Uni.
They, and others ,that were doing it 'full time,' were treated like crap, no contract, turned up to be sent home with no petrol money, ( they just waited to see who would appear , and pick the ones they wanted)
they had rubbish pay , often the management even sent too many staff home leaving the others really short handed, and running about like a BAF and , to add insult to injury , after doing their best, the guests seldom tipped, them as the service was still under par.
Even when they did get tips the management took a dip from it .
Staff then did not think twice about leaving at the drop of a hat, or taking days off as no loyalty from the management breeds no loyalty from staff.
So in my view why we are bad at it is bad pay, and worse management.
My daughter's worked in hospitality whilst at Uni.
They, and others ,that were doing it 'full time,' were treated like crap, no contract, turned up to be sent home with no petrol money, ( they just waited to see who would appear , and pick the ones they wanted)
they had rubbish pay , often the management even sent too many staff home leaving the others really short handed, and running about like a BAF and , to add insult to injury , after doing their best, the guests seldom tipped, them as the service was still under par.
Even when they did get tips the management took a dip from it .
Staff then did not think twice about leaving at the drop of a hat, or taking days off as no loyalty from the management breeds no loyalty from staff.
So in my view why we are bad at it is bad pay, and worse management.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
This thread reminded me of the nicest service I've had, it was at a very famous purveyor of climbing gear in London, long gone alas, called Lawrie's. They supplied the successful British Everest expedition and numerous polar ones too. The shop was in fact an ordinary house somewhere near Hyde Park Corner IIRC. You knocked on the front door and Mr or Mrs Lawrie opened it for you. Inside was a sort of Aladdin's cave of gear - the parkas with wolverine fur trimmings appealed to me but were out of my price range - I was a 19 year old student at the time, but their boots were reasonably prices, very comfy and good for climbing in. Tea was served as advice was given while trying the appropriate boots - testing was on the marble fire place which had little edges on it ideal for testing.
Both of them must have been in their eighties when I went there and I imagine that when they died the shop shut. Maybe someone may knows the details.
This thread reminded me of the nicest service I've had, it was at a very famous purveyor of climbing gear in London, long gone alas, called Lawrie's. They supplied the successful British Everest expedition and numerous polar ones too. The shop was in fact an ordinary house somewhere near Hyde Park Corner IIRC. You knocked on the front door and Mr or Mrs Lawrie opened it for you. Inside was a sort of Aladdin's cave of gear - the parkas with wolverine fur trimmings appealed to me but were out of my price range - I was a 19 year old student at the time, but their boots were reasonably prices, very comfy and good for climbing in. Tea was served as advice was given while trying the appropriate boots - testing was on the marble fire place which had little edges on it ideal for testing.
Both of them must have been in their eighties when I went there and I imagine that when they died the shop shut. Maybe someone may knows the details.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
spent one sunday in the lakes shopping in keswick needed to kit my self out with a load of new gear,george fishers and cotswold made it so difficult for me to buy anything because of all the rules and regulations,i am a awkward customer as i have size 13 feet and xxl in clothing, walked out of cotswold in digust about having to put a deposit on a tent just to get it from the grasmere store.
went over to needle sports spent 2 hours in there getting good advice and such a fun experience buying things
spent one sunday in the lakes shopping in keswick needed to kit my self out with a load of new gear,george fishers and cotswold made it so difficult for me to buy anything because of all the rules and regulations,i am a awkward customer as i have size 13 feet and xxl in clothing, walked out of cotswold in digust about having to put a deposit on a tent just to get it from the grasmere store.
went over to needle sports spent 2 hours in there getting good advice and such a fun experience buying things
In reply to johncook:
How did the culture arise of tipping waiters and cabbies, but not other service staff?
> In the UK people give tips regardless and then do their mutterings outside the place.
How did the culture arise of tipping waiters and cabbies, but not other service staff?
In reply to nufkin:
The day service charges were brought in. There was a precise date, well, precise year. Something like 1974, but can't remember really.
The day service charges were brought in. There was a precise date, well, precise year. Something like 1974, but can't remember really.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
Aye where in Europe? North germany, well Rostock especially, was horrific.. Berlin wasnt much better but down in bavaria it was great.
the US tips make a huge difference, no tips = very very low wage, so going the extra mile ensures they get a wage.
Aye where in Europe? North germany, well Rostock especially, was horrific.. Berlin wasnt much better but down in bavaria it was great.
the US tips make a huge difference, no tips = very very low wage, so going the extra mile ensures they get a wage.
Try the Netherlands if your looking for poor customer service at bars and restaurants. Lot of places you almost feel like they're doing you a favour by taking your order or delivering you some food or drink.
If you want good customer service then anywhere in Asia seems to be spectacular. Nothing's ever too much trouble and there's a huge pride in running your own shop/cafe here.
If you want good customer service then anywhere in Asia seems to be spectacular. Nothing's ever too much trouble and there's a huge pride in running your own shop/cafe here.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
I didn't particularly find service to be a cut above in the states. Tipping isn't optional over there, it's essentially mandatory. Canada is about as bad too, I know someone in Canada who actively chases people up for a sub 15% tip and asks them what they did wrong etc. In America I have known someone who have been chased by management for not leaving a tip (can't remember if it was a mistake or a grievance).
The reason in America is that the national minimum wage is $7.25 whilst the 'tipped wage' is $2.13* (the base minimum wage for waitors etc.). In America I would say you are doing something morally wrong by not tipping, it's not so much reward for good service as it is enabling your server to live, it is an essential part of their pay packet, it is no bonus. These things are going to change soon, the minimum wage is going to go up to around $10 an hour and tipped wage will be 70% of this but we are still a few years off this.
The Canadian system is from june onwards: $11 an hour generally and $9.55 for tipped workers.
I agree that one should automatically tip 15% in the states and to a lesser extent, Canada. A 10% tip is to indicate displeasure over there, whilst here it's counted as a little bonus. I don't think the service is miles better over there, but I think the Americans I have met are generally less reserved and probably by default give a bit better customer service but nothing mindblowing. The best service by far is from economically poor countries, many always going the extra mile, providing an additional desert or drink free of charge. This very last sentence is a massive generalisation, and to be taken with a pinch of salt, however it is my experience.
*Not in every state is the state minimum wage the same as the federal one, in a whopping 7 in 50 states the tipped wage is the same as the general wage but in the vast majority it is either $2.13 or considerable lower than the average.
I didn't particularly find service to be a cut above in the states. Tipping isn't optional over there, it's essentially mandatory. Canada is about as bad too, I know someone in Canada who actively chases people up for a sub 15% tip and asks them what they did wrong etc. In America I have known someone who have been chased by management for not leaving a tip (can't remember if it was a mistake or a grievance).
The reason in America is that the national minimum wage is $7.25 whilst the 'tipped wage' is $2.13* (the base minimum wage for waitors etc.). In America I would say you are doing something morally wrong by not tipping, it's not so much reward for good service as it is enabling your server to live, it is an essential part of their pay packet, it is no bonus. These things are going to change soon, the minimum wage is going to go up to around $10 an hour and tipped wage will be 70% of this but we are still a few years off this.
The Canadian system is from june onwards: $11 an hour generally and $9.55 for tipped workers.
I agree that one should automatically tip 15% in the states and to a lesser extent, Canada. A 10% tip is to indicate displeasure over there, whilst here it's counted as a little bonus. I don't think the service is miles better over there, but I think the Americans I have met are generally less reserved and probably by default give a bit better customer service but nothing mindblowing. The best service by far is from economically poor countries, many always going the extra mile, providing an additional desert or drink free of charge. This very last sentence is a massive generalisation, and to be taken with a pinch of salt, however it is my experience.
*Not in every state is the state minimum wage the same as the federal one, in a whopping 7 in 50 states the tipped wage is the same as the general wage but in the vast majority it is either $2.13 or considerable lower than the average.
Post edited at 02:51
In reply to John1923:
But that explanation doesn't apply in other places with better service, e.g. Japan - tipping isn't the norm there (twice now I've had waiters chasing me down the street and giving me the money back because I left a tip behind on a plate - they thought I'd forgotten it. One actually followed me all the way across a bridge and arrived out of breath).
> America has great coustemer service because it's waiters need tips.
But that explanation doesn't apply in other places with better service, e.g. Japan - tipping isn't the norm there (twice now I've had waiters chasing me down the street and giving me the money back because I left a tip behind on a plate - they thought I'd forgotten it. One actually followed me all the way across a bridge and arrived out of breath).
In reply to Sharp:
I agree with what you say, and also find it interesting how you relate service to retail and catering. When ever I have cause to interact with the NHS, Police, Local council or National Government, the service is usually appalling nearly always needing follow up calls, and far far worse service than I get in the local supermarket or pub. Infact once or twice lately I have asked the person dealing with me if they would accept the service they are giving me in Tesco`s, and they all of sudden look very embarrassed.
I agree with what you say, and also find it interesting how you relate service to retail and catering. When ever I have cause to interact with the NHS, Police, Local council or National Government, the service is usually appalling nearly always needing follow up calls, and far far worse service than I get in the local supermarket or pub. Infact once or twice lately I have asked the person dealing with me if they would accept the service they are giving me in Tesco`s, and they all of sudden look very embarrassed.
In reply to FreshSlate:
I always find it difficult with small things.
Then I just bought lunch, it was $5.95 so I gave $7 and he gave me the $1 back.. and then just now I got coffee for 2.25, gave him 3 and he just said call it 2..
Some cases tipping is almost mandatory others not expected. In bars I normally tip a $1 every other beer, if its just opening a bottle, pouring a beer.. but with a cocktail would tip more.
I was in a hotel a few years back and on the last day was chased down for not tipping the staff serving.. I just thought that was on my bill but they said they also needed tipping..
I always find it difficult with small things.
Then I just bought lunch, it was $5.95 so I gave $7 and he gave me the $1 back.. and then just now I got coffee for 2.25, gave him 3 and he just said call it 2..
Some cases tipping is almost mandatory others not expected. In bars I normally tip a $1 every other beer, if its just opening a bottle, pouring a beer.. but with a cocktail would tip more.
I was in a hotel a few years back and on the last day was chased down for not tipping the staff serving.. I just thought that was on my bill but they said they also needed tipping..
In reply to IainRUK:
Yeah bars are hard to judge but a buck every other drink seems a good system for beer.
Tipping is mandatory for table service and bartenders and expected for taxi's, hairdressers etc. You don't have to tip at fast food restaurants or over the counter stuff. It's getting a bit grey as people are starting to tip everyone these days and more and more people are starting to expect. Perhaps the changes in the minimum wage law will change things slightly, but tipping at restaurants will stay unaffected.
Was their a service charge on your bill for the meal at the hotel?
Yeah bars are hard to judge but a buck every other drink seems a good system for beer.
Tipping is mandatory for table service and bartenders and expected for taxi's, hairdressers etc. You don't have to tip at fast food restaurants or over the counter stuff. It's getting a bit grey as people are starting to tip everyone these days and more and more people are starting to expect. Perhaps the changes in the minimum wage law will change things slightly, but tipping at restaurants will stay unaffected.
Was their a service charge on your bill for the meal at the hotel?
In reply to nufkin:
At a recent gig I tipped the bar staff, the person at the merch stall, and the person at the cloakroom.
> How did the culture arise of tipping waiters and cabbies, but not other service staff?
At a recent gig I tipped the bar staff, the person at the merch stall, and the person at the cloakroom.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
What a lovely story. I used to see their adverts at the back of climbing club magazines in the 1960s. They seemed to epitomise an old-fashioned, stalwart (if that's the right word) 'this is what we do' ethos - entirely consistent with your experience of them.
I wonder what happened. I suppose they simply got too old to carry on.
Mick
> This thread reminded me of the nicest service I've had, it was at a very famous purveyor of climbing gear in London, long gone alas, called Lawrie's.
What a lovely story. I used to see their adverts at the back of climbing club magazines in the 1960s. They seemed to epitomise an old-fashioned, stalwart (if that's the right word) 'this is what we do' ethos - entirely consistent with your experience of them.
I wonder what happened. I suppose they simply got too old to carry on.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ward:
The YHA climbing shop just off Charing Cross Road, run by Tony Willmott in the late 1960s, was another such establishment.
The YHA climbing shop just off Charing Cross Road, run by Tony Willmott in the late 1960s, was another such establishment.
In reply to FreshSlate:
Never knew about hair dressers... never had a hair cut in the US..
Not sure re the hotel, tipped what they asked for but that was on one of my first trips when I started working here back in 2009.
Never knew about hair dressers... never had a hair cut in the US..
Not sure re the hotel, tipped what they asked for but that was on one of my first trips when I started working here back in 2009.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Steve Dean enthused about it, reckoned Tony Willmott was full of beans. A sad loss when he died so terribly young.
I guess the YHA in central Manchester, when run by Brian Cropper, was yet another such establishment.
Mick
Steve Dean enthused about it, reckoned Tony Willmott was full of beans. A sad loss when he died so terribly young.
I guess the YHA in central Manchester, when run by Brian Cropper, was yet another such establishment.
Mick
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
Why is customer service so poor in Britain? Because most women under the age of 25 are celebrity megastars who, through some appallingly cruel twist of fate, have ended up working in the supermarket. They're not your SLAVES, you know. They're special and superior to you, and they KNOW you're looking down on them, even when you try to cover it up with courtesy and polite smiles and an easy-going demeanour, you patronising bar steward.
Why is customer service so poor in Britain? Because most women under the age of 25 are celebrity megastars who, through some appallingly cruel twist of fate, have ended up working in the supermarket. They're not your SLAVES, you know. They're special and superior to you, and they KNOW you're looking down on them, even when you try to cover it up with courtesy and polite smiles and an easy-going demeanour, you patronising bar steward.
In reply to Tony Naylor:
Actually, that's just a really long-winded way of saying 'chips on shoulders'.
Actually, that's just a really long-winded way of saying 'chips on shoulders'.
In reply to IainRUK:
That´s the difference between East and West for you. Berlin is East in that respect, even the former Western sectors.
CB
> North germany, well Rostock especially, was horrific.. Berlin wasnt much better but down in bavaria it was great.
That´s the difference between East and West for you. Berlin is East in that respect, even the former Western sectors.
CB
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
some of the stories of being chased down for tips reminds me of a place in Mexico City airport. After several weeks backpacking and having some amazing food for pennies at street stalls and similar, we had a 7hour wait in Mexico City airport. thankfuly (due to winning them for being employee of the year at a big business travel company...) we had business class tickets so could get in the lounge 4 hours before, but still had 3 hours to waste.
we went to I think the only restaurant (may have been one other) and got rude stares and were obviously being slagged off by the staff in the empty place. They were rude when serving, the food was very expensive and near inedible with a long wait. Before we'd even finished they were trying to clear the plates away. We then spent 5-10 mins finishing drinks and chatting, during which we were hassled 3-4 times with them trying to remove our drinks. We were going to buy more but decided we didn't want to put up with more crap so paid and left. we got chased by the manager of the place and 3 staff demanding a tip. I laughed and pointed out the terrible service and they got irate enough that airport security started wandering over. We walked off while they shouted abuse.
Unbelievable and at total odds to the fantastically friendly people we'd met all over while travelling in some very poor places.
some of the stories of being chased down for tips reminds me of a place in Mexico City airport. After several weeks backpacking and having some amazing food for pennies at street stalls and similar, we had a 7hour wait in Mexico City airport. thankfuly (due to winning them for being employee of the year at a big business travel company...) we had business class tickets so could get in the lounge 4 hours before, but still had 3 hours to waste.
we went to I think the only restaurant (may have been one other) and got rude stares and were obviously being slagged off by the staff in the empty place. They were rude when serving, the food was very expensive and near inedible with a long wait. Before we'd even finished they were trying to clear the plates away. We then spent 5-10 mins finishing drinks and chatting, during which we were hassled 3-4 times with them trying to remove our drinks. We were going to buy more but decided we didn't want to put up with more crap so paid and left. we got chased by the manager of the place and 3 staff demanding a tip. I laughed and pointed out the terrible service and they got irate enough that airport security started wandering over. We walked off while they shouted abuse.
Unbelievable and at total odds to the fantastically friendly people we'd met all over while travelling in some very poor places.
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:
I think some of this is down to what 'service' means in each culture, and this has been covered in various forms by previous posters.
Having spent two years in Canada (and travelled heavily in the States in that time), there is a huge emphasis on personal service, but very little on having effective systems and processes.
In some situations (eg needing to organise a delivery or manage bank transactions), this is a poor approach, since you typically have to waste a lot of time in stores or on the phone to complete tasks that in the UK would be carried out online in moments.
In other situations (eg wanting help to choose a complex product, or wanting to explore credit/loan options), you reap the benefit of companies having spent their resources on pleasant premises and motivated staff. When I needed to open my first Canadian credit card, I was shocked to be immediately offered an out-of-hours 45 minute meeting with a reasonably senior staff member to talk about my options. It wasn't a sales meeting - I got real information and the paperwork was done quickly on the spot.
Culture is important. North Americans, in general, like the idea of giving businesses an honest chance, so will embrace the service offered, play along with the style of the store, and openly criticise/praise/choose on that basis. They will openly weight service, 'style' and price against one another. It's interesting that most small towns in Canada and the USA still have a range of independent shops and services, sometimes including the main supermarket/pharmacy/restaurant/coffee-shop/garage. These places keep going by offering good service and a strong sense of local preferences - I think the culture of embracing these advantages keeps the big chains on their toes in terms of service.
These are just generalisations - there are also countless towns where Walmart has taken over by being very very cheap (and awful in a way that I have never seen matched in the UK). I suspect that our lack of interest in the social role of commerce in the UK makes us more likely to make price the only factor in our purchasing decisions.
I think some of this is down to what 'service' means in each culture, and this has been covered in various forms by previous posters.
Having spent two years in Canada (and travelled heavily in the States in that time), there is a huge emphasis on personal service, but very little on having effective systems and processes.
In some situations (eg needing to organise a delivery or manage bank transactions), this is a poor approach, since you typically have to waste a lot of time in stores or on the phone to complete tasks that in the UK would be carried out online in moments.
In other situations (eg wanting help to choose a complex product, or wanting to explore credit/loan options), you reap the benefit of companies having spent their resources on pleasant premises and motivated staff. When I needed to open my first Canadian credit card, I was shocked to be immediately offered an out-of-hours 45 minute meeting with a reasonably senior staff member to talk about my options. It wasn't a sales meeting - I got real information and the paperwork was done quickly on the spot.
Culture is important. North Americans, in general, like the idea of giving businesses an honest chance, so will embrace the service offered, play along with the style of the store, and openly criticise/praise/choose on that basis. They will openly weight service, 'style' and price against one another. It's interesting that most small towns in Canada and the USA still have a range of independent shops and services, sometimes including the main supermarket/pharmacy/restaurant/coffee-shop/garage. These places keep going by offering good service and a strong sense of local preferences - I think the culture of embracing these advantages keeps the big chains on their toes in terms of service.
These are just generalisations - there are also countless towns where Walmart has taken over by being very very cheap (and awful in a way that I have never seen matched in the UK). I suspect that our lack of interest in the social role of commerce in the UK makes us more likely to make price the only factor in our purchasing decisions.
In reply to hamsforlegs:
yesterday I went into Target in the US for a simcard, the sales rep went through my options and then sent me to another shop that could do me a better deal which would suit me better...
> In other situations (eg wanting help to choose a complex product, or wanting to explore credit/loan options), you reap the benefit of companies having spent their resources on pleasant premises and motivated staff. When I needed to open my first Canadian credit card, I was shocked to be immediately offered an out-of-hours 45 minute meeting with a reasonably senior staff member to talk about my options. It wasn't a sales meeting - I got real information and the paperwork was done quickly on the spot.
yesterday I went into Target in the US for a simcard, the sales rep went through my options and then sent me to another shop that could do me a better deal which would suit me better...
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