UKC

Looking for some recommendations of good E4's and E5's you would suggest as good onsight options in the lakes!

In reply to AJCW:

Sorry not a useful response to your post!

I'd be interested in first E4s too - often seems to be that E4+s in the Lakes don't get done a right lot, but there must be a handful of popular ones that are clean and chalky?

I'd guess that ones on Reecastle and Bowderstone Crag might be popular?

In reply to AJCW:

the two classic ones on dow crag - holocaust and tumble. very different routes but good gear and very onsightable. bitter oasis on goat crag is good. a bit bold but straightforward.

if you're sport fit there's plenty to go at at reecastle at e5.

that should do you for a day or two.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Here are a few ideas:

Possible 1st E4s, quick-drying, clean and often chalked:
Wheels of Fire, Bowderstone
Grand Alliance, Black Crag, Borrowdale - run-out but not serious
Holocaust, Dow - safe crux, bit bolder above, but easier

Friendly E5s:
Gates of Delirium (hard E4?)
Trilogy (if you're tallish, to clip the in-situ runner at the start)

In reply to AJCW:

Holocaust - very easy for the grade if you have a good span.

Fallen Angel - very safe; not too hard if you like groove/back-and-footing weirdness and it happens to have been bone dry for a month. Otherwise may be found more difficult.

jcm

In reply to switch:

Thanks, Black Crag is top of my list of crags to visit. Will put Prana and Grand Alliance on the top of the ticklist for summer 2014.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I don't remember Fallen Angel feeling very safe, but then the pump in my legs might have stopped me pausing to place more gear. Brilliant route though.

In reply to dodfoster:

Bitter Oasis is quite bold at times and can be quite dirty. Very good route though!

I was browsing my guides last night looking at the same thing!
Most of them have already come up apart from Blitzkrieg at Raven which sounded like an good safe option - although reading the log book on here its an absolute mess

In reply to scott quinn:

I guess any of the E3s that have been upgraded to E4, I must admit I am surprised that Bitter Oasis has been upgraded, less so Grand Alliance.

I think Tumble on Dow Crag is very steady/ easy at the grade; Holocaust is a bit of a one move wonder, as my brother has led it and he is tall and crap I am sure it is a gift if you are tall.

Is Dry Grasp still given E4? When I did it back in the day I thought it very straight forward even at E3... and Wheels of Fire is fine.

Powerglide on Hard Knott is very easy...

I think at E4/E5 Gates of Delirium and The Cumbrian are either hard or easy at the grade depending on what they are currently given and of course both awesome. Not so sure about the Reecastle recommendation - I think Penal Servitude is quite hard to flash - I recall the gear placement at the start being hard to see/ place.

Not wanting to make out that all Lakes grades are piss, Lost Horizons certainly isn't easy at the grade but obviously classic.

I recall Top Gear at Ravens Crag Threshwaite being classic and well protected with a small friend in a quartz break - funny how you remember some things.

S

In reply to simon cox:

The gear at the start of the second pitch of Bitter Oasis has gone so it's a potential fall-factor 2.

I'd consider the following as easy Lakes' E4s with decent gear:

Tumble, Dow
Powerglide, Hardknott
West Side Story, Buckbarrow
Running on empty, Raven, Threshthwaite
Boy Racer, Raven, Threshthwaite
Breakfast in America, Swirl Crags

Slightly harder.

Holocaust, Dow
Shadowfax, Scafell
Top Gear, Raven Threshthwaite
Eclipse, Pavey

For E5s, I'd go with:
Gates of Delerium, Raven, Thirlmere
Trilogy, Raven Langdale

Someone mentioned Fallen Angel. I don't think this is easy at all. The crux is well protected but once you leave the groove then it's quite run out and you've got a seriously pumped right leg!

In reply to Bob:

As ever you are the man with the details, maybe you could give me some hints and tips on the Charlie Ramsay Round which is my main goal for the year, but it would be sweet to do some Lakes classic climbs, the one I always fancied was Ringwraith, maybe if I get strong and super light...

On Hard Knot one needs to chose the warm ups wisely as there is as I recall a horror of an E2 which is much harder than Powerglide! I am sure you know which one I mean Bob. It has a horrid shiny groove with as much friction as the Bombay Chimney on the Naked Edge!!

Cheers,

S

In reply to simon cox:

Earl Boethar? Apart from Copenhagen it's the only E2 there I can think of. I found Powerglide quite hard but it was unchalked and figuring the right way to go on the upper wall took a bit of time working out.

Ramsay Round? Check with Baggins on the FRA forums - he did it last year. I've not done much of the route on the CRR, just the backbone of the Mamores, but I don't think there's much in the way of route choice.

In reply to Bob:


There used to be a small hex placement in a pocket.

It still took a small cam a couple of years ago but the placement is so subtle that no wire we had would seat. P put a note on the FRCC site about a pink? tricam possibly fitting well.

BO is still a very good route but harder than I remember it and low end E4.

In reply to Rick Graham:


You're expecting people to carry proper gear?

In reply to Bob:

I know.

The right age of hex 2 used to be bomber.

I just thought our arsenal of modern wires would cope.

In reply to AJCW:

Mother Courage on Pavey. You get an E4 tick for what is one of the best E3's in the country. Not many overgraded routes in the Lakes but that's one of them

In reply to Glenn Sutcliffe:

It was E3 when I led it. I was very glad to be in my prime on a "low gravity " day and find an arm bar rest. Far better climbers than me have rested or fallen off it.

So E4 nowadays.

In reply to AJCW:

Have a look at Burnt Crag.

In reply to Rick Graham:

Better climbers than you..... Can't be many of them

In reply to Glenn Sutcliffe:

Early in the season it (Mother Courage) can be quite dirty - I remember seeing a "perfect" climber having to rest on it.

Good call on Burnt Crag. There's also Rhetoric of Meritocracy just round the corner. Another crag in the vicinity is Far Hill Crag. Both this and Burnt have a good selection of single pitch routes in the E3 - E5 range.

In reply to AJCW:

Great advice. Thanks very much.

In reply to AJCW:

What you might have noticed is the lack of recommended E5s. It's not that there aren't any, just that most are either very bold (R'n'S special) or not that easy (the Scafell E5s come to mind).

In reply to Bob:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=6814

In reply to AJCW:

As some have commented, what is most important is the state of the weather and state of the crags. After a dry spell lots of these routes come into condition, esp. when "the lads" (and lasses) have chalked them up. Lots of Lakes routes do not get done these days due to cold wet summers and dirty crags.

In reply to malk:

???

I didn't say there hadn't been any. Penal Servitude isn't an easy E5 though it's reasonably safe - I took a huge swing from the last hard move and my feet caught my belayer as I went past A little exciting - I had to sit down. Maybe these days with limestone fitness it feels a bit easier, I'd compare it with the bottom half of Autobahn at Chee Tor.

In reply to AJCW:

For E4 Nagasaki Grooves on Great End Borrowdale, also Orifice Fish in Cathedral Quarry (soft touch)

In reply to kevin stephens:

Crikey Kev, you can take a big whipper out of the top groove on NG - the Brat did just that, 50' I believe. The crux move is very hard as well.

In reply to Bob:

Yes I was wondering whether to recommend penal servitude. I liked it because its quite bouldery low down then once you get across the sketchy traverse you're home free on easy ground. I don't think I'm good enough to recommend E5's because they all seem hard and iffy to me but then I am a wuss.

In reply to Bob:

the only reason i mention is that i went out with some hard climbers a few years ago and they targeted BO and PS. had some pics on ukc but they've been removed. i remember watching the leader on BO climbing up and reversing for a high belay for the start of the second pitch?
and he cruised PS with a toprope

In reply to Bob:


Hmmm, come to think of it so did I on my first attempt; nearly did it, hands on Banzai Pipeline and slipped off, 50 footer (maybe more!) to end up back below the crux (which was well protected 'though).

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


Or if you can work out the 'alternative' way!

Tumble's ok if you're happy with small wires

In reply to AJCW:

The FRCC Select guide (2003) has the following routes at E4-

Bitter Oasis
Caesar
Dry Grasp
Grand Alliance
Mother Courage
Riboletto

And at E5-

Burning Desire
Cumbrian
Fast and Furious

In reply to Rick Graham:

Riboletto is a brilliant pitch but I wouldn't say it was a soft touch. Its also a very long walk in and the bottom groove and traverse (first crux) can, I suspect, be very slow to dry. I'm glad I had a young hot-shot to lead me up it a couple of years ago. Of the other routes in your list I would say Grand Alliance is by far the easiest.

In reply to AJCW:

Kern Knotts on Gable is good for E4's. Particularly Pussy and Grimalkin, which are good routes on great rock.

The Scafell routes at these grades are some of the best around, you just need the weather to be in your favour!

Tapestry on Pillar Rock is another fantastic route at E4, steady climbing in a great situation, just a tad run out at the top of the crux pitch

In reply to Jon Stewart:


Great routes, bold but not dangerously so. The main issue with Prana is that the first pitch is often wet but you can do it even if it's wet in places as you sort of climbing round the wet bits! I didn't think Grand Alliance was that much harder than Prana - probably because I seconded Grand Alliance and led Prana!

In reply to JM:


A great route but the second pitch is dangerous - would be pretty much a factor two fall onto the belay from the crux 5c moves. There are only a couple of hard moves and then it gets easier but there is no gear for a while as you traverse out above the belay. I reckon the first pitch is actually harder - I seconded that and it still felt pretty hard and a bit bold. The second pitch is tricky enough but mostly a head game.

In reply to Bob:


That's it - exciting stuff!

In reply to Misha:

E5 then?

In reply to malk:

Was E3, now E4 - just for the bold start of P2 but I reckon P3 is no walk in the park at hard E3 5c.

In reply to Misha:


Hi Misha,

do you mean P1 of Bitter Oasis?

In reply to Rick Graham:
Ooops typo, of course meant P1 not P3.

I exaggerated a bit with a factor 2 fall onto the belay from the start of P2 but there's no gear now and you'd land on that slab just below the belay... wouldn't fancy it!

This is the mind of thread that makes me want to get out there and do all these other great routes. Just need the weather and the partners!