UKC

Dihedral / Corner

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 James Rushforth Global Crag Moderator 14 Apr 2014
If I said climb the 'Dihedral' would you expect to find a difference from climbing a 'corner'?

Is there a difference? Just curious as to what people understand by the term.
 Scott Quinn 14 Apr 2014
In reply to James Rushforth:

Good old guidebooks!

I'd expect it to be harder, I always thought it was wider than a corner.
Making it harder to bridge take the weight etc...

When i've seen dihedral mentioned in guidebooks its usualy for overhanging open corners.

 Neil 14 Apr 2014
In reply to James Rushforth:
I would expect to read corner in a British guidebook, and dihedral in an American one, for very similar features. Cenotaph Dihedral just doesn't have the same ring to it!

Where does a groove fit in on the spectrum? Shallow, bottomless, deep or otherwise?
Post edited at 11:01
 Nick Russell 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Neil:

> I would expect to read corner in a British guidebook, and dihedral in an American one, for very similar features.

This is pretty much my experience too. Americans sometimes use "corner" to refer to an arete, so "dihedral" is less ambiguous.
 Offwidth 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Nick Russell:

British guidebooks also sometimes call an arete an (outside) corner, especially older ones.
 Nick Russell 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

Yes, now you mention it, the American guidebook I'm thinking of (Tennessee Wall) did say "outside" corner to make it clear.
 Cheese Monkey 14 Apr 2014
In reply to James Rushforth:

This might be utter rubbish but in my mind a groove is the shallowest, then a dihedral, corner, chimney, offwidth
 AlanLittle 14 Apr 2014
In reply to James Rushforth:

What I would understand from your use of the term would be that you were American (or at least had climbed a lot in America)
In reply to James Rushforth:

In America you stem a dihedral in the UK you bridge a corner.
 Offwidth 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Christheclimber:

But everywhere good people stem the ignorant flow of misinformation and stereotypes and turn the corner by bridging to good practice.
 AlanLittle 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Christheclimber:

In German Kante ("edge") is used both for an arete and the lip of a roof. Confusing? Yes.
 Martin Bennett 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Cheese Monkey:

> This might be utter rubbish but in my mind a groove is the shallowest, then a dihedral, corner, chimney, offwidth

As I see it you're opening statement pretty much has it! Starts well - "a groove is the shallowest" but then detiorates since (a) a dihedral IS a corner; and (b) chimney and offwidth are features unrelated to the question.
 HeMa 14 Apr 2014
In reply to James Rushforth:

Inside corner = dihedral = open book (usually a crack at the bottom).

Areta = outside corner.

Groove is not a proper openbook, but a shallower weakness. Might not even have a crack at the bottom. Some might say groove = scoop.
 Offwidth 14 Apr 2014
In reply to HeMa:

A scoop is a curved groove or shallow cup feature. The venn diagram overlaps but they are not the same thing. In pointing this out I also apologise for my shallower weakness
 Andrew Wilson 14 Apr 2014
In reply to James Rushforth:

Where does "diedre" fit into all of this?
 Offwidth 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Andrew Wilson:

Presumably she is stuck in the chimney?
 AlanLittle 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Andrew Wilson:

France
Removed User 14 Apr 2014
In reply to AlanLittle:

I would expect a corner to be 90 degrees or less and a dihedral to be 90 degress or more (ish).

But I have no real idea why.
 dagibbs 14 Apr 2014
In reply to James Rushforth:

I see "dihedral", "open book", and "inside corner" as being essentially interchangeable terms. "corner" by itself is ambiguous, as it could mean an inside or outside corner. An outside corner is usually/often called an "arete".
 Michael Gordon 14 Apr 2014
In reply to James Rushforth:

If I saw dihedral/diedre in a guide I'd probably expect a grand open book corner. Whereas a corner can be anything cornerish, but NOT an arete!
 HeMa 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Michael Gordon:

> If I saw dihedral/diedre in a guide I'd probably expect a grand open book corner. Whereas a corner can be anything cornerish, but NOT an arete!

Nor slab.
 John2 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Neil:

'Cenotaph Dihedral just doesn't have the same ring to it!'

Deadman's Dihedral?
 Cheese Monkey 14 Apr 2014
In reply to James Rushforth:

Can anyone tell me what a vertical overlap is?
 HeMa 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Cheese Monkey:

Something rather usual around the easier granite slabs of Grimsel pass... So a vertical section overlapping proper (friction) slabs.
 neil9216 14 Apr 2014
In reply to James Rushforth:
Not sure if this helps any however I'm a joiner to trade and in roofing terms when you put a dihedral angle on a hip rafter it means, to plane it on each side to create an external corner.

So in my book a dihederal corner would be an arête.
A corner however is an internal angle.


Cheers
Neil
Post edited at 20:06
 Bob 14 Apr 2014
In reply to neil9216:

But it's common parlance to say "round the corner" of a building where the corner is in climbing terms an arete!
 Cheese Monkey 14 Apr 2014
In reply to HeMa:

Ok cheers. Can't remember if that makes sense or not to when I saw it used as I couldnt work out where the hell any of the lines on the entire crag went!
 Chris H 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Bob: Im just popping out to the arete shop for a pint of milk?


In reply to Chris H:

And a niche of ice cream?
 Michael Gordon 15 Apr 2014
In reply to Bob:

> But it's common parlance to say "round the corner" of a building where the corner is in climbing terms an arete!

Then again, at school you get told to "stand in the corner"
 Mike Nolan 15 Apr 2014
In reply to James Rushforth: Does anybody know what 'Candelle' is?

 Mike Nolan 15 Apr 2014
In reply to James FR:

No sorry, I just can't type. I mean Chandelle!
 James FR 15 Apr 2014
In reply to Mike Nolan:

It basically just means candle, so a spire of rock such as: http://www.summitpost.org/south-face-of-the-chandelle/9705

Unless you're talking about rugby, in which case it's a garryowen / up-and-under!
 Baron Weasel 15 Apr 2014
In reply to James Rushforth:

In my mind a dihedral is the product of the geological process of columnar jointing.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=columnar+jointing&tbm=isch&tbo=u&...
 Mike Nolan 15 Apr 2014
In reply to James FR:

Brilliant, thanks.

It's mentioned a couple of times in the description of the Central Pillar of the Frêney, and I couldn't figure out what it was describing!
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