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Yesterday after a bit of Ruckle action we had a little lay in the sun and then decided to have a bimble about at cattle troughs.
Isis has been on my wish list for some time now and although it's supposed to be high in the grade I thought it would make a nice warm down - HOW WRONG I WAS !
Up to and around the traverse all ok and steady away VS - then as you continue left and up it starts to feel a bit desperate - by now I'm starting to get a major pump in my right arm and getting slightly panicked looking at my last gear some distance below. After a few different looks at moves and fiddling some ok gear in I went for the top - it was great to get there .
I was about 5-6 feet left (as you face the rock ) of the old rotting camalot c3 (yellow) and think I might have strayed a bit too far left - any ideas ?????
Judging by the comments on the logbook I'm not the only one to have struggled with this route. I can honestly say I've done easier HVS (both at Swanage and elsewhere)
Isis has been on my wish list for some time now and although it's supposed to be high in the grade I thought it would make a nice warm down - HOW WRONG I WAS !
Up to and around the traverse all ok and steady away VS - then as you continue left and up it starts to feel a bit desperate - by now I'm starting to get a major pump in my right arm and getting slightly panicked looking at my last gear some distance below. After a few different looks at moves and fiddling some ok gear in I went for the top - it was great to get there .
I was about 5-6 feet left (as you face the rock ) of the old rotting camalot c3 (yellow) and think I might have strayed a bit too far left - any ideas ?????
Judging by the comments on the logbook I'm not the only one to have struggled with this route. I can honestly say I've done easier HVS (both at Swanage and elsewhere)
In reply to Ciderslider:
Haha, yup, that's Isis! Pretty much word for word my experience too - nice one!
Haha, yup, that's Isis! Pretty much word for word my experience too - nice one!
In reply to Ciderslider:
Stop being a fanny
(it is a bit cheeky I've done it a couple of times and think the grades right)
Stop being a fanny
(it is a bit cheeky I've done it a couple of times and think the grades right)
In reply to Ciderslider:
Huh! Think you had a bad warm-down. Was puntering along at Malham, back in the mists of time. Did a couple of warm-downs, then spotted someone finishing another. "What grade's that?" "HVS." Bob's your uncle.
Admittedly back then HVS covered a fair old lot of ground... well from HVS to E2 really. But as my face started to go redder and redder with effort and the titters drifted up from below, I realised that I'd been well and truly sandbagged. Autonomy, E3 6a. Probably the second ascent.
You gotta be careful with warm-downs! And I ain't rushing after Isis, with its distinctly dodgy reputation. Good effort, Mark.
Mick
> ...I thought it would make a nice warm down - HOW WRONG I WAS !
Huh! Think you had a bad warm-down. Was puntering along at Malham, back in the mists of time. Did a couple of warm-downs, then spotted someone finishing another. "What grade's that?" "HVS." Bob's your uncle.
Admittedly back then HVS covered a fair old lot of ground... well from HVS to E2 really. But as my face started to go redder and redder with effort and the titters drifted up from below, I realised that I'd been well and truly sandbagged. Autonomy, E3 6a. Probably the second ascent.
You gotta be careful with warm-downs! And I ain't rushing after Isis, with its distinctly dodgy reputation. Good effort, Mark.
Mick
In reply to jezb1:
Hey Jez you're so hard core I'm sure that Isis is a total path for a big butch North Wales (and ex Swanage) hard man mountain guide like yourself
Hey Jez you're so hard core I'm sure that Isis is a total path for a big butch North Wales (and ex Swanage) hard man mountain guide like yourself
In reply to Mick Ward:
Cheers Mick - whilst I'm still a total punter, I think that I'm starting to get a bit of an idea of what I'm doing. However this one was a lot tougher than I expected. Having said that the harder the struggle the sweeter the prize - god that first pint of beer (and cider ) in the S and C tasted good ! Also it's all about the journey eh ?
Maybe we could do a couple of Ruckle trade routes sometime soon.
Cheers Mick - whilst I'm still a total punter, I think that I'm starting to get a bit of an idea of what I'm doing. However this one was a lot tougher than I expected. Having said that the harder the struggle the sweeter the prize - god that first pint of beer (and cider ) in the S and C tasted good ! Also it's all about the journey eh ?
Maybe we could do a couple of Ruckle trade routes sometime soon.
In reply to Ciderslider:
Hey, we're all total punters. And it is all about the journey (it gets you to some distinctly odd places, though!)
Yep, would be good to do stuff in the Ruckle. Went up to Wye with your neighbour, Curly, last week. He's gone to the grit, this weekend. He said you'd become 'El Hombre' at the local wall (cue background music, 'A Fistful of Dollars'!)
Given you're so close to the dreaded Southern Sandstone, I wouldn't neglect it. While it's fashionable to sneer (and I do!), the bottom line is that it turns out technical genius. From the 1960s to now, I can think of guys like Clive Wray, Dave (Wino) Griffiths, Rob Kennard, James Dunlop, all with killer technique. Once you've got your head round 5b on SS being nearly 6a in Wales, the rest is easy. ("Pull!")
Told Curly he should aim for Cemetary Gates. Same with you. Think two Swanage HVSs on top of each other on the main pitch and... the reality will be a doddle. I'll even turn up for beta from the sofa and a tight rope.
Mick
Hey, we're all total punters. And it is all about the journey (it gets you to some distinctly odd places, though!)
Yep, would be good to do stuff in the Ruckle. Went up to Wye with your neighbour, Curly, last week. He's gone to the grit, this weekend. He said you'd become 'El Hombre' at the local wall (cue background music, 'A Fistful of Dollars'!)
Given you're so close to the dreaded Southern Sandstone, I wouldn't neglect it. While it's fashionable to sneer (and I do!), the bottom line is that it turns out technical genius. From the 1960s to now, I can think of guys like Clive Wray, Dave (Wino) Griffiths, Rob Kennard, James Dunlop, all with killer technique. Once you've got your head round 5b on SS being nearly 6a in Wales, the rest is easy. ("Pull!")
Told Curly he should aim for Cemetary Gates. Same with you. Think two Swanage HVSs on top of each other on the main pitch and... the reality will be a doddle. I'll even turn up for beta from the sofa and a tight rope.
Mick
In reply to Ciderslider:
You're making me blush Mark
Come to Wales, I feel like a total punter here! Everyman and their Collie climb far harder than I ever will.
Isis / Sub is quite a different climbing style to most of the Ruckle stuff though isn't it. What was the route you're on, on FB? Jo?
You're making me blush Mark
Come to Wales, I feel like a total punter here! Everyman and their Collie climb far harder than I ever will.
Isis / Sub is quite a different climbing style to most of the Ruckle stuff though isn't it. What was the route you're on, on FB? Jo?
Post edited at 20:36
In reply to jezb1:
Aventura - which I led the second pitch - which i thought was a total path (exciting granted - but soooooooo easy)
I am getting to really like the ruckle - apart from the jenga top outs 8-)
Aventura - which I led the second pitch - which i thought was a total path (exciting granted - but soooooooo easy)
I am getting to really like the ruckle - apart from the jenga top outs 8-)
Post edited at 20:46
In reply to Ciderslider:
It is an easy mistake to make on Isis, and one that has caused problems and injury quite often. If you go too far left, you are in E1 territory, poorly protected by all accounts.
Essentially on the traverse move you reach where my left foot is, stand up in a steep position and move upwards. Do NOT go any further left, but do get gear in once you have made the step across. Be careful to think about how your ropes are going to go, so you avoid the rope drag that I will be shortly suffering.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=100144
It is an easy mistake to make on Isis, and one that has caused problems and injury quite often. If you go too far left, you are in E1 territory, poorly protected by all accounts.
Essentially on the traverse move you reach where my left foot is, stand up in a steep position and move upwards. Do NOT go any further left, but do get gear in once you have made the step across. Be careful to think about how your ropes are going to go, so you avoid the rope drag that I will be shortly suffering.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=100144
In reply to Mick Ward:
Cheers Mick - I think that the bouldering wall has made me more than strong enough and technically capable of climbing everything I wanna do - I've found that using tricks for the mental side of things has really started to pay dividends (rock warriors/espresso lessons, and of course your e book). I'm gonna keep working on that as early indications are really promising.
As for 'El Hombre' - maybe somewhere near in the over 50's
Cheers Mick - I think that the bouldering wall has made me more than strong enough and technically capable of climbing everything I wanna do - I've found that using tricks for the mental side of things has really started to pay dividends (rock warriors/espresso lessons, and of course your e book). I'm gonna keep working on that as early indications are really promising.
As for 'El Hombre' - maybe somewhere near in the over 50's
In reply to jezb1:
Say "I'm really sorry" Jez - go on
Have you done Isis - it's nails - take a look at the log
And Freda is fine - apart from the first couple of moves (if you don't cheat and use the arete above the bad step)
Say "I'm really sorry" Jez - go on
Have you done Isis - it's nails - take a look at the log
And Freda is fine - apart from the first couple of moves (if you don't cheat and use the arete above the bad step)
Post edited at 21:19
In reply to Ciderslider:
I'm really sorry.
Yeah done it a couple of times, but my notes just say "nice climb"!
I'm really sorry.
Yeah done it a couple of times, but my notes just say "nice climb"!
In reply to Simon4:
Yep - went quite a bit further left - that's why it felt spicy !!!!! and with shite gear - it made me start to cluck as the gear was a long way down
Yep - went quite a bit further left - that's why it felt spicy !!!!! and with shite gear - it made me start to cluck as the gear was a long way down
In reply to jezb1:
I would imagine that with your Swanage background you probably did the route the correct way - and didn't go too far left on the traverse (onto the E1).
I am no expert but I know a 4c move when I do one
I would imagine that with your Swanage background you probably did the route the correct way - and didn't go too far left on the traverse (onto the E1).
I am no expert but I know a 4c move when I do one
In reply to Ciderslider:
I did this too. Well out onto that front face, I near shit myself. The only good bit of gear came from removing an old rock 2 that was so rusted I could crumble it in my fingers. I think the line in the 2005 rockfax was misleading, an example where the description is much more useful.
> Yep - went quite a bit further left - that's why it felt spicy !!!!! and with shite gear - it made me start to cluck as the gear was a long way down
I did this too. Well out onto that front face, I near shit myself. The only good bit of gear came from removing an old rock 2 that was so rusted I could crumble it in my fingers. I think the line in the 2005 rockfax was misleading, an example where the description is much more useful.
In reply to Max factor:
I'm sure I won't be the last - I was so gripped and desperate I even clipped the old piece of rotting in situ gear
I'm sure I won't be the last - I was so gripped and desperate I even clipped the old piece of rotting in situ gear
In reply to Ciderslider:
Isis is pretty good value when done the correct way, let alone the common error of going too far left.
Isis is pretty good value when done the correct way, let alone the common error of going too far left.
In reply to Ciderslider:
This previous thread discussing Isis might be of interest:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=547279&v=1#x7318728
This previous thread discussing Isis might be of interest:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=547279&v=1#x7318728
In reply to Ciderslider:
didn't go too far left on the traverse (onto the E1).
When you reach the resting spot at the end of the traverse the next move (crux - hard 4c) is a step back right and upwards into the steep blocky groove, sustained but protectable climbing follows.
didn't go too far left on the traverse (onto the E1).
> I am no expert but I know a 4c move when I do one
When you reach the resting spot at the end of the traverse the next move (crux - hard 4c) is a step back right and upwards into the steep blocky groove, sustained but protectable climbing follows.
In reply to Ciderslider:
Mark the Dorset rock fax has the line and description in the wrong place. You traverse nearly as far as the line goes around the arête and rest in a bit of an awkward spot, place gear then climb an overhanging juggy groove and crack back up diagonally right for about 6 metres. From here you place a yellow camalot and head up diagonally left slightly boldly up shelved rock to the top (this last section is about 4a) hope that helps. ( ps I did it about a year or two ago and don't remember any stuck cams!)
If done correctly (as per the definitive guide) the route is fair at vs mid to high in the grade with mostly great gear on sound rock. It would be overgraded at hvs. I thought it an excellent route.
Mark the Dorset rock fax has the line and description in the wrong place. You traverse nearly as far as the line goes around the arête and rest in a bit of an awkward spot, place gear then climb an overhanging juggy groove and crack back up diagonally right for about 6 metres. From here you place a yellow camalot and head up diagonally left slightly boldly up shelved rock to the top (this last section is about 4a) hope that helps. ( ps I did it about a year or two ago and don't remember any stuck cams!)
If done correctly (as per the definitive guide) the route is fair at vs mid to high in the grade with mostly great gear on sound rock. It would be overgraded at hvs. I thought it an excellent route.
Post edited at 18:08
In reply to Ciderslider:
Indoor bouldering is handy but it's not a substitute. Indoors doesn't tend to be very good at balancy friction stuff or crack climbing. Also it won't teach you to read rock on sight which is a skill which must be learnt the hardway. Sandstone is much more akin to grit than plastic and that's where you want to improve most right?
That said I disagree with Mick over the grades I think sandstone 5b is fair compared with grit but it takes a bit of time to adjust to it.
However limestone and indoor do equate much more The Portland and the swanage sport quarries can be a good place to see what you can really climb onsight on lime (for me a lowly f6a+ to f6b+ onsight but atleast I know that). I'd like to get to the ruckle with you sometime soon.
> Cheers Mick - I think that the bouldering wall has made me more than strong enough and technically capable of climbing everything I wanna do - I've found that using tricks for the mental side of things has really started to pay dividends (rock warriors/espresso lessons, and of course your e book). I'm gonna keep working on that as early indications are really promising
Indoor bouldering is handy but it's not a substitute. Indoors doesn't tend to be very good at balancy friction stuff or crack climbing. Also it won't teach you to read rock on sight which is a skill which must be learnt the hardway. Sandstone is much more akin to grit than plastic and that's where you want to improve most right?
That said I disagree with Mick over the grades I think sandstone 5b is fair compared with grit but it takes a bit of time to adjust to it.
However limestone and indoor do equate much more The Portland and the swanage sport quarries can be a good place to see what you can really climb onsight on lime (for me a lowly f6a+ to f6b+ onsight but atleast I know that). I'd like to get to the ruckle with you sometime soon.
Post edited at 18:28
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I'm sure you're right Steve and it is just adjustment. I've not climbed enough on SS to really get the hang of it. Same with Helsby. Northumberland sandstone seems far more amenable, like grit but even better (heresy!) With Pex, you just have to accept that you start off pathetically crap but then (slowly) improve. Above (English) 6b though at Pex does seem terribly hard ("I'm off!")
Still think though that Southern Sandstone turns out people with enviably superb technique.
Anyway, enough of that. How's things on the grit?
Mick
I'm sure you're right Steve and it is just adjustment. I've not climbed enough on SS to really get the hang of it. Same with Helsby. Northumberland sandstone seems far more amenable, like grit but even better (heresy!) With Pex, you just have to accept that you start off pathetically crap but then (slowly) improve. Above (English) 6b though at Pex does seem terribly hard ("I'm off!")
Still think though that Southern Sandstone turns out people with enviably superb technique.
Anyway, enough of that. How's things on the grit?
Mick
In reply to Mick Ward:
Haha not always
Brilliant! Friday was one of those blissed out sunny smiley crag days when everything is perfect and we climbed sat and this morning too. Top leads for me were left unconquerable (seconded it last year), Congo corner (Really really liked this and has rekindled my love for grit) and croiton oil. Also really enjoyed cold turkey
> Still think though that Southern Sandstone turns out people with enviably superb technique.
Haha not always
> Anyway, enough of that. How's things on the grit?
Brilliant! Friday was one of those blissed out sunny smiley crag days when everything is perfect and we climbed sat and this morning too. Top leads for me were left unconquerable (seconded it last year), Congo corner (Really really liked this and has rekindled my love for grit) and croiton oil. Also really enjoyed cold turkey
In reply to Ciderslider:
Cheers everyone for all the advice - I can see now why it was so bloody hard !!!!! I totally messed it up !!!!
https://ukc2.com/i/64905.jpg
Where this guy is was about halfway along my traverse left - I carried on around onto the face before moving up - by the time I got up onto the wall I was getting a bit freaked out and slightly pumped there wasn't a great deal of gear to be had - after having a few goes at various moves and fiddling in some very so so gear I moved back 5-6 feet right to the old rusting gear mentioned in the fall thread. clipped this then wobbled to the top - no wonder it was hard !!!!! I know I'm a total punter but that was far and away the scariest set of moves i've done at Swanage
Cheers everyone for all the advice - I can see now why it was so bloody hard !!!!! I totally messed it up !!!!
https://ukc2.com/i/64905.jpg
Where this guy is was about halfway along my traverse left - I carried on around onto the face before moving up - by the time I got up onto the wall I was getting a bit freaked out and slightly pumped there wasn't a great deal of gear to be had - after having a few goes at various moves and fiddling in some very so so gear I moved back 5-6 feet right to the old rusting gear mentioned in the fall thread. clipped this then wobbled to the top - no wonder it was hard !!!!! I know I'm a total punter but that was far and away the scariest set of moves i've done at Swanage
In reply to Ciderslider:
Sounds like it mate you see the groove above the guys left knee that goes up then diagonally up and a bit right. That's where the line is supposed to go. From your description I think I traversed to the same point as you and rested before coming back right and up the groove. UKC and rockfax website should put a warning clearly labeled on the route description online saying rockfax is incorrect before someone else ends up in hospital. Do you want to write to them or shall I?
Sounds like it mate you see the groove above the guys left knee that goes up then diagonally up and a bit right. That's where the line is supposed to go. From your description I think I traversed to the same point as you and rested before coming back right and up the groove. UKC and rockfax website should put a warning clearly labeled on the route description online saying rockfax is incorrect before someone else ends up in hospital. Do you want to write to them or shall I?
Post edited at 20:41
In reply to Ciderslider:
Congo is easier but the start requires some stealth and here and there some jamming skills are required for it to feel straight forward. IMO it's a much much better route moves wise can't think of anything better I've done on grit - mid grade hvs with good gear. Croton oil is easier imo and very well protected but it's quite smeary balancy (as it looks) both top class.
Congo is easier but the start requires some stealth and here and there some jamming skills are required for it to feel straight forward. IMO it's a much much better route moves wise can't think of anything better I've done on grit - mid grade hvs with good gear. Croton oil is easier imo and very well protected but it's quite smeary balancy (as it looks) both top class.
Post edited at 20:38
In reply to CurlyStevo:
That's the thing about trad. You wade through the so-so days (which are still good), endure the bad ones (sandbags, off-form, etc, etc). But when you get the golden ones... it's like The Great Wave in Big Wednesday. You ride it!
Wow! Knew you had it in you. Shocking admission, I don't think I've done Congo Corner (though once backed off the long reach on Dark Continent). Nor Cold Turkey (never used to get done much). Croton Oil is delightful.
You dudes have got to team up and do Cemetery Gates.
Mick
> Brilliant! Friday was one of those blissed out sunny smiley crag days when everything is perfect...
That's the thing about trad. You wade through the so-so days (which are still good), endure the bad ones (sandbags, off-form, etc, etc). But when you get the golden ones... it's like The Great Wave in Big Wednesday. You ride it!
> Top leads for me were left unconquerable (seconded it last year)...
Wow! Knew you had it in you. Shocking admission, I don't think I've done Congo Corner (though once backed off the long reach on Dark Continent). Nor Cold Turkey (never used to get done much). Croton Oil is delightful.
You dudes have got to team up and do Cemetery Gates.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ward:
Hey Mick that means I would have to put up with a whole weekend of wookie and we would be fighting over leading the first pitch
Actually sounds like a good idea - how about it wooks ??
Hey Mick that means I would have to put up with a whole weekend of wookie and we would be fighting over leading the first pitch
Actually sounds like a good idea - how about it wooks ??
In reply to Ciderslider:
Good point re the first pitch. And best to do it in two. The hanging belay feels historic. You can pretend you're Don and Joe. "Christ, what a gripping place!" Well it would have been then, ground-up, with loose rock and bad conditions(?) But it's just exhilarating now.
I suppose whoever didn't get The Gates could get The Corner - which was once the big rite of passage in Wales. A nicer alternative might be The Plum, at Tremadog, in one big pitch, completely different from either The Corner or The Gates.
And there must be other suitable alternatives. As John Cox might say, it is Wales, after all. You get inspired. For instance, a mate led Comes the Dervish when he'd barely climbed on slate and had certainly never led E3 before. I suggested a couple of routes to do first, he did 'em OK and just felt good on the day.
It's all about feeling good on the day...
Mick
Good point re the first pitch. And best to do it in two. The hanging belay feels historic. You can pretend you're Don and Joe. "Christ, what a gripping place!" Well it would have been then, ground-up, with loose rock and bad conditions(?) But it's just exhilarating now.
I suppose whoever didn't get The Gates could get The Corner - which was once the big rite of passage in Wales. A nicer alternative might be The Plum, at Tremadog, in one big pitch, completely different from either The Corner or The Gates.
And there must be other suitable alternatives. As John Cox might say, it is Wales, after all. You get inspired. For instance, a mate led Comes the Dervish when he'd barely climbed on slate and had certainly never led E3 before. I suggested a couple of routes to do first, he did 'em OK and just felt good on the day.
It's all about feeling good on the day...
Mick
In reply to The Ivanator:
It is striking in the comments on this route that there are very many references to going too far left and getting into serious do-dah (mostly but not always people get out of it after a major scare).
> (In reply to Ciderslider)
>
> This previous thread discussing Isis might be of interest:
>
> This previous thread discussing Isis might be of interest:
It is striking in the comments on this route that there are very many references to going too far left and getting into serious do-dah (mostly but not always people get out of it after a major scare).
Post edited at 12:15
In reply to Simon4:
which I reckon is mostly down to the topo and line being incorrect in rockfax. The old definitive description was easy enough to follow when I did it.
which I reckon is mostly down to the topo and line being incorrect in rockfax. The old definitive description was easy enough to follow when I did it.
Post edited at 12:48
In reply to Ciderslider:
I've taken a big fall off of Isis for the same reason. Had some chatter on here with Alan James afterwards about changing the wording of the route description in the next edition of the Rockfax guidebook (no idea when/if that's due) as its pretty dangerous for a VS climber to be straying too far left as I found out. Lots of broken bones that time!
Funnily enough its exactly a year ago today I took that fall. Fully recovered and climbed plenty since, but not Isis yet. Hope to get back on it in May.
I've taken a big fall off of Isis for the same reason. Had some chatter on here with Alan James afterwards about changing the wording of the route description in the next edition of the Rockfax guidebook (no idea when/if that's due) as its pretty dangerous for a VS climber to be straying too far left as I found out. Lots of broken bones that time!
Funnily enough its exactly a year ago today I took that fall. Fully recovered and climbed plenty since, but not Isis yet. Hope to get back on it in May.
In reply to neilwiltshire:
Great to hear you are back climbing again. Not done it the scary way, but Isis the proper way is a pretty safe (if steep) VS - you needn't put off your rematch on account of the danger!
Happy climbing!
Great to hear you are back climbing again. Not done it the scary way, but Isis the proper way is a pretty safe (if steep) VS - you needn't put off your rematch on account of the danger!
Happy climbing!
In reply to The Ivanator:
Cheers, haven't been putting it off, just haven't been back to Swanage yet!
Cheers, haven't been putting it off, just haven't been back to Swanage yet!
In reply to The Ivanator:
agreed, I think the line is pretty obvious too, shame rockfax mis-discribed it!
It was my first swanage VS and it was more like normal rock climbing than the 'severes' you get at subliminal (which just/mostly seem bonkers to me)
agreed, I think the line is pretty obvious too, shame rockfax mis-discribed it!
It was my first swanage VS and it was more like normal rock climbing than the 'severes' you get at subliminal (which just/mostly seem bonkers to me)
Post edited at 17:19
In reply to The Ivanator:
BTW have you done croton oil at rivelin? If not I can highly recommend it as slabby and well protected, really nice HVS climbing.
BTW have you done croton oil at rivelin? If not I can highly recommend it as slabby and well protected, really nice HVS climbing.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Swanage softens up quite a bit beyond HVS. Mostly.
> agreed, I think the line is pretty obvious too, shame rockfax mis-discribed it!
> It was my first swanage VS and it was more like normal rock climbing than the 'severes' you get at subliminal (which just/mostly seem bonkers to me)
Swanage softens up quite a bit beyond HVS. Mostly.
In reply to Jonny2vests:
I've found as others told me I would that the grades away from subliminal and parts of cattle troughs are fine even a bit soft on many of the stared hvs climbs. I guess part of it is the commitment / seriousness adding to the grade a bit like it does on mountain rock.
I've found as others told me I would that the grades away from subliminal and parts of cattle troughs are fine even a bit soft on many of the stared hvs climbs. I guess part of it is the commitment / seriousness adding to the grade a bit like it does on mountain rock.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I'm a virtual grit virgin - only done a couple of days at the Roaches (Saul's Crack, Valkyrie, Pebbledash, Via Dolorosa and a few others). Croton Oil does look great, I'm keen to get on a bit more grit this year.
Just done a Pembroke trip and think I have reawoken my seacliff mojo too ...made up a new set of prussik loops for the trip and they are like driving a Rolls Royce compared with those stiff old Lada loops that caused me all that grief at Swanage - should have done it years ago!
Despite going to North Pembroke for the slabs we ended up on quite a few steep things you would have enjoyed - Act of God at Craig Coetan was pretty wild for VS, exposed jug hauling fun.
I'm a virtual grit virgin - only done a couple of days at the Roaches (Saul's Crack, Valkyrie, Pebbledash, Via Dolorosa and a few others). Croton Oil does look great, I'm keen to get on a bit more grit this year.
Just done a Pembroke trip and think I have reawoken my seacliff mojo too ...made up a new set of prussik loops for the trip and they are like driving a Rolls Royce compared with those stiff old Lada loops that caused me all that grief at Swanage - should have done it years ago!
Despite going to North Pembroke for the slabs we ended up on quite a few steep things you would have enjoyed - Act of God at Craig Coetan was pretty wild for VS, exposed jug hauling fun.
> Just done a Pembroke trip and think I have reawoken my seacliff mojo too ...made up a new set of prussik loops for the trip and they are like driving a Rolls Royce compared with those stiff old Lada loops that caused me all that grief at Swanage - should have done it years ago!
Come to Gogarth, spare room here for you!
In reply to The Ivanator:
I did say at the time that mammut pro cord is crap I chucked mine away!
I'm jealous re Pembroke I've never been!
I did say at the time that mammut pro cord is crap I chucked mine away!
I'm jealous re Pembroke I've never been!
In reply to Ciderslider:
Have to say mate so far even buzz light year that is right at the top of the swanage HVS grade still ain't nothing compared with some of those western grit HVS 5b's (and western grit isn't the most stiffly graded area).
I reckon the Ruckle/guillemot grades are fine and take in to account the commitment and seriousness too (so are generally softer than accessible solid single pitch stuff inland).
You should get back on isis it's really good and no sandbag. You missed the best bit!
> FFFT !!!!!!!!!!!
Have to say mate so far even buzz light year that is right at the top of the swanage HVS grade still ain't nothing compared with some of those western grit HVS 5b's (and western grit isn't the most stiffly graded area).
I reckon the Ruckle/guillemot grades are fine and take in to account the commitment and seriousness too (so are generally softer than accessible solid single pitch stuff inland).
You should get back on isis it's really good and no sandbag. You missed the best bit!
Post edited at 20:36
In reply to neilwiltshire:
Firstly really good to hear that you are ok fellow Isis epic sufferer (although yours turned out to be far worse than my little scare).
I must admit that I blindly assumed that the traverse continued around onto the face before going up. Although looking at the linked photograph I can see that I made a common mistake - although as I made the traverse I remember looking up and thinking that straight up looked improbable - and having just done Aventura on boulder ruckle I wasn't bothered about pulling through an overhang.
So when I started to move up I could find no decent gear - the only gear was the rusting piece that you talked of - and that was about 4-5 foot directly to my right - by this time I was getting major pump in my right arm and was starting to cluck (looking at my last gear some distance below) I was starting to think that I was off.
after fiddling some poor gear in (which probably would have popped) I moved right and found the stuck krab on the rusty yellow camalot - managed to clip my own krab and made a couple of wobbly moves to the top - GOD WAS I A HAPPY BOY.
Firstly really good to hear that you are ok fellow Isis epic sufferer (although yours turned out to be far worse than my little scare).
I must admit that I blindly assumed that the traverse continued around onto the face before going up. Although looking at the linked photograph I can see that I made a common mistake - although as I made the traverse I remember looking up and thinking that straight up looked improbable - and having just done Aventura on boulder ruckle I wasn't bothered about pulling through an overhang.
So when I started to move up I could find no decent gear - the only gear was the rusting piece that you talked of - and that was about 4-5 foot directly to my right - by this time I was getting major pump in my right arm and was starting to cluck (looking at my last gear some distance below) I was starting to think that I was off.
after fiddling some poor gear in (which probably would have popped) I moved right and found the stuck krab on the rusty yellow camalot - managed to clip my own krab and made a couple of wobbly moves to the top - GOD WAS I A HAPPY BOY.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I'm sure I did mate - I have loads of other stuff on the radar - both ruckle and grit. So thanks but no thanks
I'm sure I did mate - I have loads of other stuff on the radar - both ruckle and grit. So thanks but no thanks
In reply to Ciderslider:
Fair enough. As I said already you did follow the line in the rockfax on isis, which is the book you have right? I would have at least tried to do the same and I doubt I'd have randomly climbed the groove to the right when the guide didn't say to do that. I don't think you should blame your self for this one.
However at the end of the day guides do have mistakes and / or descriptions that are incredibly hard to decipher, I've been there myself in the past! That element of doubt is often there with trad - the longer the route the more so.
Fair enough. As I said already you did follow the line in the rockfax on isis, which is the book you have right? I would have at least tried to do the same and I doubt I'd have randomly climbed the groove to the right when the guide didn't say to do that. I don't think you should blame your self for this one.
However at the end of the day guides do have mistakes and / or descriptions that are incredibly hard to decipher, I've been there myself in the past! That element of doubt is often there with trad - the longer the route the more so.
In reply to jezb1:
So many things on my to do list and struggling to get so much time out on rock now. Loving Fatherhood, but it is not doing any favours for my climbing. Should get a few UK trips in over the summer though and Gogarth is deffo on the horizon - I'll let you know if I'm in your neck of the woods.
So many things on my to do list and struggling to get so much time out on rock now. Loving Fatherhood, but it is not doing any favours for my climbing. Should get a few UK trips in over the summer though and Gogarth is deffo on the horizon - I'll let you know if I'm in your neck of the woods.
In reply to Ciderslider:
Well done. If it had occurred to me the krab might be rusted and put my own quickdraw on right away I never would have fallen. Well, not so far anyway. Kinda galling to hear I was only a couple of moves from the top!
Well done. If it had occurred to me the krab might be rusted and put my own quickdraw on right away I never would have fallen. Well, not so far anyway. Kinda galling to hear I was only a couple of moves from the top!
Post edited at 22:13
In reply to neilwiltshire:
I went to clip the krab first off then couldn't open it (never occurred to me it would be corroded shut)
Luckily I managed to clip another krab on it - not sure how good the c3 is now as its looking pretty scanky ! Still shit gear is better than no gear
I went to clip the krab first off then couldn't open it (never occurred to me it would be corroded shut)
Luckily I managed to clip another krab on it - not sure how good the c3 is now as its looking pretty scanky ! Still shit gear is better than no gear
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Yeah. To me, places like the Ruckle feel like typical Pembroke / Gogarth routes etc, some of the grade is attributable to the sea cliff factor. That doesn't seem to hold for more accessible places like Subluminal and Sennen etc (although Cornwall is probably just stiffer in general). Having said that, St Govan's is soft, and that's as accessible as Subluminal.
Compared to Western or Yorkshire Grit, there are some proper gifts at HVS and up.
> Have to say mate so far even buzz light year that is right at the top of the swanage HVS grade still ain't nothing compared with some of those western grit HVS 5b's (and western grit isn't the most stiffly graded area).
Yeah. To me, places like the Ruckle feel like typical Pembroke / Gogarth routes etc, some of the grade is attributable to the sea cliff factor. That doesn't seem to hold for more accessible places like Subluminal and Sennen etc (although Cornwall is probably just stiffer in general). Having said that, St Govan's is soft, and that's as accessible as Subluminal.
Compared to Western or Yorkshire Grit, there are some proper gifts at HVS and up.
In reply to Mick Ward:
You could have mentioned Martin Boysen there too
> Given you're so close to the dreaded Southern Sandstone, I wouldn't neglect it. While it's fashionable to sneer (and I do!), the bottom line is that it turns out technical genius. From the 1960s to now, I can think of guys like Clive Wray, Dave (Wino) Griffiths, Rob Kennard, James Dunlop, all with killer technique. Once you've got your head round 5b on SS being nearly 6a in Wales, the rest is easy. ("Pull!")
You could have mentioned Martin Boysen there too
In reply to Al Evans:
Eek! I'm cringing. Of course...
Only saw him on rock once, at The Embankment, with Rab. I've never seen anyone else climb as smoothly as he did.
Mick
Eek! I'm cringing. Of course...
Only saw him on rock once, at The Embankment, with Rab. I've never seen anyone else climb as smoothly as he did.
Mick
In reply to Ciderslider:
I have added this access item to the Rockfax site - http://www.rockfax.com/news/2014/04/22/isis-swanage-important-topo-correcti...
Also, I have added a note on the Logbook and RF databases.
Alan
I have added this access item to the Rockfax site - http://www.rockfax.com/news/2014/04/22/isis-swanage-important-topo-correcti...
Also, I have added a note on the Logbook and RF databases.
Alan
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Cheers.... The topo was obviously out. However I read the description in the definitive guide and comapared in to the rock fax text again last night and I think the rockfax text is a little confusing at best, the old definitive guide text is much easier to follow (I've actually lead this route twice in the last few years BTW ).
Cheers.... The topo was obviously out. However I read the description in the definitive guide and comapared in to the rock fax text again last night and I think the rockfax text is a little confusing at best, the old definitive guide text is much easier to follow (I've actually lead this route twice in the last few years BTW ).
Post edited at 11:48
In reply to Mick Ward:
I've only seen him once full stop, and that was at Ramshaw. I came round the corner and there he was squatted down curling one out on the path.
To be fair, I've never seen anyone handle this particular small social awkwardness as smoothly as he did - he ignored me completely as I scrabbled through the heather to get round him. It was as if I'd accidentally gone into the ladies' and walked in on Her Majesty.
jcm
I've only seen him once full stop, and that was at Ramshaw. I came round the corner and there he was squatted down curling one out on the path.
To be fair, I've never seen anyone handle this particular small social awkwardness as smoothly as he did - he ignored me completely as I scrabbled through the heather to get round him. It was as if I'd accidentally gone into the ladies' and walked in on Her Majesty.
jcm
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Any plans for a new edition of the book Alan? This is afterall what people will use at the crag.
Any plans for a new edition of the book Alan? This is afterall what people will use at the crag.
In reply to neilwiltshire:
I doubt rockfax have any plans having only just released one a year or so back. There is a new definitive guide in the pipeline although that has been due out ages!
I doubt rockfax have any plans having only just released one a year or so back. There is a new definitive guide in the pipeline although that has been due out ages!
In reply to neilwiltshire:
We have stock of the current edition which will take us through to 2018 so no plans at the moment. The app version will be out later this year.
Alan
> Any plans for a new edition of the book Alan? This is afterall what people will use at the crag.
We have stock of the current edition which will take us through to 2018 so no plans at the moment. The app version will be out later this year.
Alan
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Bloody hell !!! no wonder I had an epic I was more or less in-between the two routes after I had traversed way too far left !!!!
Bloody hell !!! no wonder I had an epic I was more or less in-between the two routes after I had traversed way too far left !!!!
In reply to Ciderslider:
Ah, looks like you were following my patented Reptile Smile strategy: when confronted by two options, climb between them, using the worst holds of both.
Not so much espresso lessons as dregs from the bottom of the cup (barrel?) lessons.
Mick
Ah, looks like you were following my patented Reptile Smile strategy: when confronted by two options, climb between them, using the worst holds of both.
Not so much espresso lessons as dregs from the bottom of the cup (barrel?) lessons.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ward:
I think it was only due to all the stuff I've read (espresso etc) - mental side -and all the bouldering I've done that kept me calm enough to avoid the fall (the old me of even six months ago would have panicked and fallen.
All in all a very good lesson learned - what doesn't kill you etc
But not one I'd be in a hurry to repeat any time soon - anyway it's all about the journey, isn't it ?
I think it was only due to all the stuff I've read (espresso etc) - mental side -and all the bouldering I've done that kept me calm enough to avoid the fall (the old me of even six months ago would have panicked and fallen.
All in all a very good lesson learned - what doesn't kill you etc
But not one I'd be in a hurry to repeat any time soon - anyway it's all about the journey, isn't it ?
Post edited at 21:56
In reply to Ciderslider:
It's not just the topo that is out Mark the Rockfax description is confusing at best. Rockfax says to climb a bulging groove on the left whilst the old definitive says on the right (this is much more how the climb actually climbs!)
Definitive Text
"Good Situations on firm rock make this a popular pitch. Start at the foot of a groove that bounds the left edge of the high arched recess. Climb the groove until a wide step can be made below a rusty peg (STEVO this is where we see the climber briged here http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=100144) on to the lip of the overhang. Step left again (STEVO this is the rest point where gear can be arranged and roughly where you went direct up from) and climb the overhung chocked groove up to the RIGHT (STEVO this is where rockfax say climb the groove on the LEFT) until forced left after about 15 feet. Continue up two short walls to stake belay by the path.
Rockfax Text
A popular route with varied climbing in good situations. Start at the left hand side of a high arched recess 5m right of a large block. Climb the groove on the left until moves left gain the lip of an overhang (the lip of the overhang to me would be the main part of the face above the overhang pointing out to sea if this is what rockfax meant then you do not go left from here if not the description is ambigious). Ascend the bulging groove on the LEFT (STEVO - the definitive guide description says to go right here and is how you actually climb the route), trending right then back left (STEVO this should say 'back left beneath an overhang') and finish up the two short walls.
It's not just the topo that is out Mark the Rockfax description is confusing at best. Rockfax says to climb a bulging groove on the left whilst the old definitive says on the right (this is much more how the climb actually climbs!)
Definitive Text
"Good Situations on firm rock make this a popular pitch. Start at the foot of a groove that bounds the left edge of the high arched recess. Climb the groove until a wide step can be made below a rusty peg (STEVO this is where we see the climber briged here http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=100144) on to the lip of the overhang. Step left again (STEVO this is the rest point where gear can be arranged and roughly where you went direct up from) and climb the overhung chocked groove up to the RIGHT (STEVO this is where rockfax say climb the groove on the LEFT) until forced left after about 15 feet. Continue up two short walls to stake belay by the path.
Rockfax Text
A popular route with varied climbing in good situations. Start at the left hand side of a high arched recess 5m right of a large block. Climb the groove on the left until moves left gain the lip of an overhang (the lip of the overhang to me would be the main part of the face above the overhang pointing out to sea if this is what rockfax meant then you do not go left from here if not the description is ambigious). Ascend the bulging groove on the LEFT (STEVO - the definitive guide description says to go right here and is how you actually climb the route), trending right then back left (STEVO this should say 'back left beneath an overhang') and finish up the two short walls.
Post edited at 09:07
In reply to CurlyStevo:
With the new Rockfax topo and the revised description I think any climber using these is unlikely to end up on the tricky and sparsely geared wall to be honest, although the mistake in the 2012 guide still has the potential to mislead climbers who are unaware of the online correction - not much that can be done about that till the next guide though.
Reference to the unlikely looking bulging groove is the key - it is on your left as you start the traverse, but as you point out it is on your right by the time you rest after the traverse moves.
Personally I think a better finish is stepping right at the top of the bulging groove and pulling over a final roof at about 4c with good gear (but this is not the section of the route that has caused all the trouble/debate).
Fingers crossed there are no further accidents - between your UKC route warning and Alan's revisions the potential for epics has certainly been reduced.
With the new Rockfax topo and the revised description I think any climber using these is unlikely to end up on the tricky and sparsely geared wall to be honest, although the mistake in the 2012 guide still has the potential to mislead climbers who are unaware of the online correction - not much that can be done about that till the next guide though.
Reference to the unlikely looking bulging groove is the key - it is on your left as you start the traverse, but as you point out it is on your right by the time you rest after the traverse moves.
Personally I think a better finish is stepping right at the top of the bulging groove and pulling over a final roof at about 4c with good gear (but this is not the section of the route that has caused all the trouble/debate).
Fingers crossed there are no further accidents - between your UKC route warning and Alan's revisions the potential for epics has certainly been reduced.
Is it just me or does anyone else think the new corrected online rockfax Topo and description are a little out still?
When I climbed Isis I'm pretty sure I found the line to be more like this (in green)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/9209450@N05/13976982861
Also the new description is this
"A popular route with varied climbing in good situations. Start at the left-hand side of a high, arched recess 5m right of a large block. Climb the groove on the left until a move left gains the lip of an overhang. Pull up slightly left then back right into a bulging groove. Climb this to finish up two short walls."
I think this would be much better
"A popular route with varied climbing in good situations. Start at the left-hand side of a high, arched recess 5m right of a large block. Climb the groove on the left until level with the lip of an overhang. Traverse the lip left past a wide step across a short corner with a blocky grove above, until on the main front face. Arrange gear and rest before stepping back right and up the overhung blocky groove and continuation cracks, until forced left under an overhang to finish up two short walls."
Yes it's longer but its not an easy route to follow as we are finding out!
Post edited at 10:05
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Your description is clearer - and in plenty of time to consider for the next Rockfax. I do think the revised topo and route notes Alan posted on the Rockfax site are certainly adequate to avoid dangerous mistakes.
BTW Have you done Wessex Hangover at Cattle Troughs (West of the most popular area on Flake Ledge) - best VS at CT IMO - you'd love it.
Your description is clearer - and in plenty of time to consider for the next Rockfax. I do think the revised topo and route notes Alan posted on the Rockfax site are certainly adequate to avoid dangerous mistakes.
BTW Have you done Wessex Hangover at Cattle Troughs (West of the most popular area on Flake Ledge) - best VS at CT IMO - you'd love it.
In reply to The Ivanator:
Not done that one yet - its definitely something I'd like to do at some stage though.
I've got my eye on elysium at the moment and several of the bird banned routes when the ban is lifted.
Not done that one yet - its definitely something I'd like to do at some stage though.
I've got my eye on elysium at the moment and several of the bird banned routes when the ban is lifted.
Post edited at 10:35
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Hey m8 that's really cool the green line thing - can i download your photo and draw my line of assent ? how do you do that ????
I went much further left again on the traverse - then up up then moved back right using a big undercut block - which was still left of the rotting yellow camalot c3 (which i clipped) then up - wobbled to the top.
Looking at the picture the line looks so bloody obvious - I think I had what Neil Gresham calls soft eyes - got totally zoned in on the traverse - still lesson learned.
Hey m8 that's really cool the green line thing - can i download your photo and draw my line of assent ? how do you do that ????
I went much further left again on the traverse - then up up then moved back right using a big undercut block - which was still left of the rotting yellow camalot c3 (which i clipped) then up - wobbled to the top.
Looking at the picture the line looks so bloody obvious - I think I had what Neil Gresham calls soft eyes - got totally zoned in on the traverse - still lesson learned.
Post edited at 10:50
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Behemoth ???????
I might be down there this fri (if I don't go to the roaches - crap weather) - the person i might be climbing with is good - so i might get him to drag my sorry old arse up some ruckle horrors !!!
> Not done that one yet - its definitely something I'd like to do at some stage though.
> I've got my eye on elysium at the moment and several of the bird banned routes when the ban is lifted.
Behemoth ???????
I might be down there this fri (if I don't go to the roaches - crap weather) - the person i might be climbing with is good - so i might get him to drag my sorry old arse up some ruckle horrors !!!
In reply to Ciderslider:
I just mailed it to you - just load it in to microsoft paint (or whatever) and do your stuff
I just mailed it to you - just load it in to microsoft paint (or whatever) and do your stuff
In reply to CurlyStevo:
How did I guess Can't wait for the bird ban to end - "arm blowing cracks" - Bring it on !!!!
> Yes I definately want to do behemoth, thats top of my HVS list
How did I guess Can't wait for the bird ban to end - "arm blowing cracks" - Bring it on !!!!
In reply to Ciderslider:
> (In reply to CurlyStevo)
You guys are nuts, give me a technical slab and keep your arm blowing cracks! In reply to The Ivanator:
at the end of the day its only F5+ crack climbing
I did a load of grit slabby stuff at the weekend and actually quite enjoyed it (especially croton oil )
at the end of the day its only F5+ crack climbing
I did a load of grit slabby stuff at the weekend and actually quite enjoyed it (especially croton oil )
Post edited at 12:04
In reply to Ciderslider:
Hey Stevo - can I claim a new route - I'll call it "Oh, god I'm gripped and pumped and I wish I was in the square and compass !"
And give it E0 5a
Hey Stevo - can I claim a new route - I'll call it "Oh, god I'm gripped and pumped and I wish I was in the square and compass !"
And give it E0 5a
Post edited at 12:50
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