UKC

What is it with some grit VSs?

Today at Ilkley, I led Old Crack in good style (after the nasty non-sticking jam below the high reach), laid away right up Walewska, grinning from ear to ear, but got so shut down on S Crack (on second for goodness sake) you could have erected a scaffold and built a winch in the time it took me be dragged up. That awkward start had me so discombobulated (not to mention pumped) I was gibbering at the top crack.

Damn, Cherry Valley Rib at HVS 5a was a walk in the park after S Crack...

Must get steady at VS... Must get steady at VS...

In reply to BnB:

2 out of 3 doesn't seem so bad.

In reply to BnB:
The hardest move on S Crack is to get off the ground. But you laid away Walewska???

BTW, did you second CVR?

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:


Laying away is about the only move I've got, so that leaves me with little option


Yes, I'm not ready to lead HVS but I found the route pretty amenable on second. No problem reading the moves or making them, in comparison S Crack was nails. I find the top every bit as hard as the bottom. Even with it being my third time climbing the flipping route.

In reply to BnB:

I haven't done CVR, but I was looking at it on Saturday, before we skipped after a couple of routes because it was too cold. You've definitely convinced me to do it next time I'm there.

S Crack is steep and sustained, very easy to get tired, and then everything feels hard doesn't it.

If you're back there again, the direct start to Walewska is good value for VS, a better route than the original in my opinion.

In reply to BnB:

Don't be too hard on yourself, I saw someone almost deck on S Crack. It's very sustained for the grade.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:


^^This is what Euro bolt clipping does to you. Avoid.


Was that the one I did? The start was indeed dreadful.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Have you done CVR? One of the best lines on grit, isn't it?

S Crack is what you did. I think you meant to say 'I found the start hard'.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:


I never went back to Ilkley.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

You went to Baildon Bank instead.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Once.

In reply to Mark Collins:


I must have waved my fingers around in that crack for twenty minutes waiting for something to grip before I got tired of getting pumped while still standing on the ground and climbed the wall to the right before sneaking back into the crack above eye level. By then I was sufficiently tired and frustrated that the sustained nature of the route really did me in.

My partner just stuffs his fat fingers and hands in any crevice and they stick like glue. My delicate digits are flipping useless!!

In reply to BnB:



They were all VS once... Old Crack (MVS), S Crack, Cherry Valley Rib, Napoleon, Blucher, Walewska and Botterill's. You could always have fun at Ilkley.

Mick

In reply to BnB:


Watch the crack school videos on here, learn, practice......

In reply to Mick Ward:

"Fun".

You missed Propeller Wall from that list too.

In reply to Mark Collins:

I'd say it is not very sustained at the grade otherwise it should be HVS. It has a hard start and a finish where people fail through lack of VS level stamina. Hence it is very easy to mess up and a go-for-it approach by the less than competant seems to be unwise: a fall I saw ended up with an inversion with the leader's head missing the ground by inches. Since someone metioned Baildon it's a good bit easier than Joanna.

In reply to BnB:

For some unknown reason, I often go to pieces whilst seconding yet feel in control and confident on lead or solo.

In reply to Offwidth:

You're quite a fan of Baildon aren't you? You must have relatives there or something, I can't believe you find its intrinsic qualities alluring!

In reply to Offwidth:

You can't have a sustained VS, otherwise it's HVS. Does that make sense?

I don't think it's that much easier than Joanna, if at all. After the first moves to get established in the lower crack, Joanna is pretty easy. Less sustained than S Crack for me.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:


Yes you can, it's sustained at a lower standard. VS 4b for example, would be expected to be sustained (or a little bold).

It might be that for you, you can't have a VS that's pumpy, or else it would be HVS?

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I know, I wasn't saying that. Tell Offwidth please!!!

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Ah I see! I think maybe he means that if it was sustained at the standard of the start it would be HVS? Does it get 5a, or does the start get ignored because it's the start (love that Yorkshire speciality!).

In reply to Jon Stewart:

The original comment that started this dispute was 'sustained for the grade', i.e. sustained for VS. I think it is.

It gets 4c. Obviously the start gets ignored, you don't have to climb the start do you?

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

I think 'sustained for VS' is poor use of language and thus has caused this confusion and conflict. It's harder at the start than the rest and so isn't really 'sustained'. But the rest of the route is sustained at a lower VS level, leaving it a hard VS (not HVS) with a low crux.

Either way, I didn't like it.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
If it was sustained at anything like the crux it would be HVS, its not. Adjectival grades are for onsights and all the people I knew I saw onsighting both made Joanna look a lot harder.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Quality route. I've done it 2.5 times now.

In reply to Offwidth:

Where do you think the crux is?

In reply to Offwidth:


It is harder. I've done S-Crack dozens of times, often without a rope - it's a couple of tricky thin-hands moves with massive (if polished) feet followed by a romp with a lie-down rest in the middle. Joanna is similar but feels more insecure and it's not all over after the first couple of moves - I've done it a few times but always had a rope...

In reply to Pagan:

You seem to have forgotten to mention the rests on Joanna.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Yorkshire (and volume 2 crags like Baildon) is on my mind at the moment as I'm working on draft scripts. I always liked the good Baildon routes, and disliked the 'sahara' exits. Did Bramble Crack on sunday for the first time for example ..... stonking VS corner.

In reply to Offwidth:

Horrible getting to the belay though! :S

BTW, do you know what happened to the block at the start of Joanna?

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Its actually completely clear to the belay at present but given nettle and bramble growth I'd recommend gloves and clippers in the team from say June. I find the place too hot on most summer days. No idea about the block sorry.

In reply to ByEek:
Very interesting observation. perhaps you and I don't put our A team out when we're on second