UKC

looking to get more used to simul climbing on easier climbs in the mountains to speed things up....any tips,advice?
thanks
Adam

In reply to Pj84:

If you're on a ridge and your partner goes off one side, lob off the other side and look quick about it!

In reply to Pj84:

Make sure your partner is a least as good as you, and has faster reaction times! (especially on ridges/aretes!)

In reply to Pj84:

loads of practice!

In reply to Pj84:

Short answer:
- Don't bother. Learn to quickly take/drop coils and short pitch efficiently with direct belays instead.

Long answer:
You only say 'easy climbs' which is not particularly specific, hence I am answering with a fairly UK-centric bias and assuming your definition of easy is something around Mod to Severe rather than say HVS.

The key to quick movement in the mountains is two fold.

First, you need to be familiar with a variety of modes of travel. That means knowing a whole variety of ropework and belaying techniques, and crucially when to use them:
- Pitched climbing (i.e. normal climbing, sometimes referred to as long pitching)
- Short pitching (pitched climbing with one of both climbers carrying coils) which may use any of the following belay options:
~~~ semi-indirect belay (using a belay plate but often seated/braced with a single anchor)
~~~ direct belay (both using spikes and Italian hitches)
~~~ body belay (with and without anchors)
~~~ braced stance
~~~ specific snow/ice belays (boot axe, stomper, bucket seat)
- Short roping (use of a very short length of rope for safe guarding, including on steps (max 2-3metres) that are too insignificant to describe as pitches)
- Spotting (safe guarding climbers without the rope on short sections)
- Moving together (with gear or possibly on ridges without gear)
- Glacier travel (at an appropriate spacing & rope tension, with or without knots in the rope)
- Carrying hand coils (i.e. you stay roped up but you not actively doing anything with the rope)
- Abseils (i.e. standard single or multi-pitch retrievable abseil)
- Lower and counterbalance abseil

Second, you need to be proficient at transitioning quickly and efficient between different modes of travel.

That, unfortunately is easier said than done. You could easily need to make a dozen plus transitions over the course of an alpine route. Mastering the art of seamless transitions is a big part of what Mountain Guides spend the 4-5 years of their training learning to do.

For easy routes, in addition to normal pitched climbing, the most useful mode of travel is not 'moving together', it is 'short pitching' which is generally at its most effective when direct belays can be used. On pretty much any easy route, a rope team that can short pitch proficiently and switch quickly to/from normal pitched climbing and/or walking carrying hand coils will be as least as quick and probably far safer than a team trying to move together for all or some of the route.

This is especially true in the UK where moving together is rarely the most appropriate option. Tower Ridge is a prime example. It is best climbed with perhaps 5-8 short pitches and a longer pitch on the Eastern Traverse rather than by any attempt to move together.

Hence we arrive at my original advice. Get super efficient at taking and dropping coils, which is an absolutely essential mountaineering skill in its own right. Then go and climb routes by short pitching using both direct belays around spikes or using Italian hitches with a sling & HMS krab.

In reply to Pj84:

Why is short pitching faster than normal pitching? Is it because you just put a sling roud a spike and belay off it direct rather than making a traditional beyal with the rope/ Would iti be even faster to long pitch with a direct belay, as your pitches will be longer?

In reply to Pj84:

On a long route with some easy ground and some hard ground, I often simul climb with my partner on the easier sections. My approach is oriented around climbing on rock because I don't climb on ice.

In the version I use, typically the leader leads off and is belayed as normal, when out of rope, he pauses as the second dismantles the belay and starts climbing. The two continue to move together with the leader placing gear infrequently but often enough that there is always 2 or 3 bomber bits on the rope. When the leader runs out of gear, he makes a belay as normal, belays the second to him and then the process can start again.

A few points:
- Ideally the stronger climber is seconding because a leader fall would be the same as for standard pitching (essentially) but a second fall would generally be quite serious.
- The second should climb at the rate of the leader, not faster, so that there is no loop of slack in the system (potentially leading to a leader falling further he/she would anticipate).
- Often coils or doubling up a single half rope are used to give a shorter rope between the leader and second (a full 60m of rope out makes drag on the leader pretty horrible).
- The leader should feel confident not placing too much gear because the method is only quicker if the leader can spread his available rack out over 100m or more of climbing rather than using it all up in 40m and having to belay as often as for standard pitching.

Advantages:
- You can string several pitches together without that faff of intermediate belays, saving time.
- Both climbers climbing at the same time effectively almost doubles your overall rate.
- Suddenly reaching a harder part isn't a problem because the leader can continue leading as he normally would. He only needs to make sure that he makes a belay before the second will reach the tricky bit.
- If you have taken a few coils and tied the rope off to shorten it, it is very quick and easy to transition back to pitched climbing on the next hard section.

Disadvantages:
- The second really can't fall, if he does, the leader will be dragged off and his fall will be some sort of nasty factor that I don't know how to calculate.
- The weaker climber in a more heavily skewed pair may not have great route finding skills and may be slower on the lead. This isn't ideal for trying to go faster and save time.
- Leader may have to pause in a slightly awkward place if second has to pause to take out gear. Second may have to pause in a slightly awkward section if the leader is placing gear/route reading/guidebook reading/etc.

I've used this approach a lot in the dolomites where typically there are stretches of 2 or 3 pitches where the terrain is about S or HS between sections of climbing that is more HVS or harder.
Always make sure there is good communication though and that both people really understand how moving together is going to work. It's a good idea to practice it first on a non-commiting easy route to iron out any snags before doing it in earnest on a long hard route.

I've never moved together/simul climbed as a 3.

In reply to johncook:

Hence why the lead should always walk/climb backwards

Main advise is have the best person second as the second CANNOT fall.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Your post makes my brain hurt, I didn't realise I did such complicated things

One good thing from this post, I have at last twigged what the "simul" in "simul climbing" means, ie. simultaneous climbing, I though it was "simulated" and it always seemed an odd term to use. Funny, it just came to me in a flash reading the thread... just like that!

In reply to Red Rover:


What the ex-engineer means I think is that many easy alpine-like climbs consist of walking between sections of, say 10-20ft, moves over steeper rock. So you stay roped up, walk to the steep corner, belay at the base, lead it, belay at the top, bring second up, walk 200m along the ridge to the next steep bit and repeat. This is much quicker than trying to pitch the whole thing.

In reply to Red Rover:

It is a case of horses for courses. The nature of the route will dictate what is quicker.

Easy routes tend to have more ledges and hence scope for climbing short pitches. Also, rope drag may actively mitigate against longer pitches. However, harder, steeper routes have fewer large ledges, less scope for rope drag, hence may suit longer pitches.

Many easier mountain routes have sections where you can solo (still roped up) and it is quicker to transition from short pitching to moving together with hand coils and back again, than it is to either (long) pitch everything or transition from normal pitching to/from soloing.

As regards direct belays around spikes, they are super quick but are less secure and may be less safe in a large fall so it is more critical than normal not to let large amounts of slack to develop. To that end, it greatly helps to have line of sight (or good communication) to your partner and be on terrain where a fall is highly unlikely. This means they are only really applicable to short and fairly easy pitches. On a long pitch I'd use a sling and an Italian hitch.

As with most things in mountaineering, judging how best approach a climb is as much an art as a science.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Good mountaineering ropework IS complicated, but as with many things, you only realise how complicated when you break it down and start explaining it to someone else.

Or you can just climb Tower Ridge or Amphitheatre Buttress on a busy weekend and watch even relatively experienced rock climbers try to pitch absolutely everything

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

Thanks for the explaination. I had a go this weekend and simulclimbed the idwal linkup (apart from Lazerus) and some bits of central arete, it seemed to work and sped things up greatly.