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Does anyone know of any climbing in Somerset that is actually half decent. It all appears just to be crappy limestone with forests growing from them. The crags that seem to be better, all appear to deny group climbing, or have bloody padlocked fences surrounding them! It's worth pointing out that I am at boarding school in Wells, and when I'm not at school, my regular climbing destination is Stanage; couldn't be a bigger contrast! If someone could explain to me how, as a climbing community, we've allowed all of the control (and apparently nonsensical politics) to be put into the hands of a select group of individuals who's primary goal is clearly not the encouragement of younger climbers and beginners. It's no wonder that the Bristol climbing gyms do so well! It's just a shambles... if they spent as much time clearing up the chossy routes as they do telling people where they're not allowed to climb, climbing in Somerset would be a whole lot more appealing. Please tell me if I'm being unreasonable, but seriously, I'm yet to impressed by any of the climbing down here, or in fact the climbers.
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In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
And what have you done to muck in and help improve the Situation in Somerset?
Ps i would don your helmet if i Were you, i Expect youre in for a Rough ride. Certain people have been putting in a lot of work locally, Reviving routes, crags, and Gear.
And what have you done to muck in and help improve the Situation in Somerset?
Ps i would don your helmet if i Were you, i Expect youre in for a Rough ride. Certain people have been putting in a lot of work locally, Reviving routes, crags, and Gear.
Post edited at 11:52
In reply to broken spectre:
Well this is the thing. After sending various emails to the appointed superiors, it's apparent that they want nothing to be done. At one particular crag, we were told never to return, because apparently the presence of 4 or 5 climbers drastically damages the natural environment and ruins the aesthetic of the crag. I believe the appropriate term is 'WTF?'...
Well this is the thing. After sending various emails to the appointed superiors, it's apparent that they want nothing to be done. At one particular crag, we were told never to return, because apparently the presence of 4 or 5 climbers drastically damages the natural environment and ruins the aesthetic of the crag. I believe the appropriate term is 'WTF?'...
1
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
You're being unreasonable. More like throwing a tantrum.
There are crags with sensitive access yes. If you dont respect that then I'm not surprised you were told not to return. There are 100s of quality routes, if you dont like them then please do hide away in the gym so none of us have to suffer you at the crag. There are good beginners venues around you. Go and clean some routes yourself
You're being unreasonable. More like throwing a tantrum.
There are crags with sensitive access yes. If you dont respect that then I'm not surprised you were told not to return. There are 100s of quality routes, if you dont like them then please do hide away in the gym so none of us have to suffer you at the crag. There are good beginners venues around you. Go and clean some routes yourself
In reply to Cheese Monkey:
A tantrum was not intended.
My issue is that, at school, the only way of getting on the rock is to go with a group (led by a member of staff with plenty of climbing experience). Obviously, because of his position, he is expected to contact the access reps to check that all is fine and dandy. This then leads to him being told that he can't take groups to the majority of crags. So, out of courtesy, we don't (and so end up at some short, dangerous crag which has been abandoned by anyone with sense). I, subsequently, have a very blurred image of what climbing in Somerset is, because my only experience is bad.
I'm just curios as to where the good climbing is... because I want to climb it not 'hide away in the gym'...
A tantrum was not intended.
My issue is that, at school, the only way of getting on the rock is to go with a group (led by a member of staff with plenty of climbing experience). Obviously, because of his position, he is expected to contact the access reps to check that all is fine and dandy. This then leads to him being told that he can't take groups to the majority of crags. So, out of courtesy, we don't (and so end up at some short, dangerous crag which has been abandoned by anyone with sense). I, subsequently, have a very blurred image of what climbing in Somerset is, because my only experience is bad.
I'm just curios as to where the good climbing is... because I want to climb it not 'hide away in the gym'...
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
I did so. I sent an email volunteering to do exactly that, and was politely told to piss off. Fairy Cave, Cheddar and Goblin Combe all restrict group access. I'm yet to inquire about Brean Down.
I did so. I sent an email volunteering to do exactly that, and was politely told to piss off. Fairy Cave, Cheddar and Goblin Combe all restrict group access. I'm yet to inquire about Brean Down.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
Which are the short Dangerous crags you have been to?
Compared to grit, a lot of our local rock is dangerous.
which have you been denied small group Access to?
Which are the short Dangerous crags you have been to?
Compared to grit, a lot of our local rock is dangerous.
which have you been denied small group Access to?
Post edited at 12:30
In reply to broken spectre:
Denied access to fairy Cave, Dinder wood, Goblin combe and cheddar... which leaves Split Rock.. E3+.....
Denied access to fairy Cave, Dinder wood, Goblin combe and cheddar... which leaves Split Rock.. E3+.....
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
They're areas with access restrictions for good reasons.
As you're at a boarding school are weekend trips an option, Cornwall and Devon are not so far for you. Avon area, Portland?
They're areas with access restrictions for good reasons.
As you're at a boarding school are weekend trips an option, Cornwall and Devon are not so far for you. Avon area, Portland?
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
How about volunteering to clean up these so called 'chossy crags' which you've been climbing at. Or maybe go and climb at some 'half decent' crags such as Fairy Cave, Cheddar, Goblin Combe or Brean Down.
Are you having a hard time adjusting to our proper climbing on small holds and more than 15m climbs?
I've had no issues with access. Oh and you're being unreasonable
But in all seriousness, it is very route dependant and you have to pick carefully. The issue with cheddar being the restrictions, so many of the big routes don't get climbed very often. But if no one is willing to climb them, then they will be taken over by plants etc. And I'm not entirely sure why fairy cave has the fences but it may be something to do with limiting access as it is a place of scientific interest or something like that.
Just give is softy sotherners a chance
How about volunteering to clean up these so called 'chossy crags' which you've been climbing at. Or maybe go and climb at some 'half decent' crags such as Fairy Cave, Cheddar, Goblin Combe or Brean Down.
Are you having a hard time adjusting to our proper climbing on small holds and more than 15m climbs?
I've had no issues with access. Oh and you're being unreasonable
But in all seriousness, it is very route dependant and you have to pick carefully. The issue with cheddar being the restrictions, so many of the big routes don't get climbed very often. But if no one is willing to climb them, then they will be taken over by plants etc. And I'm not entirely sure why fairy cave has the fences but it may be something to do with limiting access as it is a place of scientific interest or something like that.
Just give is softy sotherners a chance
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
Try sand Point, Avon gorge, fort crags at brean, trym Valley, Westdown quarry, churchill rocks.
They all have Lower Grade routes
Forgot portisHead
Try sand Point, Avon gorge, fort crags at brean, trym Valley, Westdown quarry, churchill rocks.
They all have Lower Grade routes
Forgot portisHead
Post edited at 12:34
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
It appears I posted twice, deleted the other ppst now.
Hmmm, that shouldn't really be the response. I would have thought that they'd be looking for volunteers to help keep the crag in order. Maybe find a partner on here and go and climb away from the school club 1:1
It appears I posted twice, deleted the other ppst now.
Hmmm, that shouldn't really be the response. I would have thought that they'd be looking for volunteers to help keep the crag in order. Maybe find a partner on here and go and climb away from the school club 1:1
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
So whats the Dreadful Condition crags youve Climbed at?
If theyre that bad, why not contact BMC Access rep, Ian butterworth i think, and ask about organising a crag Clean up and work day there?
So whats the Dreadful Condition crags youve Climbed at?
If theyre that bad, why not contact BMC Access rep, Ian butterworth i think, and ask about organising a crag Clean up and work day there?
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
Not only unreasonable but extremely arrogant and rather offensive.
When you asked me for information about your school (and the Combined Cadet Force!) using Dinder Wood i tried to explain exactly what the situation was there. I just gave you the FACTS! Most of the crags in the Mendips are privately owned with sensitive access and by following the advice that has been considered by the local activists who found, cleaned and developed the crags through much hard work then climbing can be enjoyed by all.
Which crag are you talking about? As i said, at many of your local crags small groups of discreet climbers will not have any affect but school groups with mini-busses and abseilers is a totally different matter.
That is very naive and ignorant. A very small group of us are currently working on the new guidebook for the Mendips (voluntary) and are putting in masses of hard work so that individual climbers like yourself can enjoy the crags.
I hope that none of the above criticisms are aimed at the email i sent you, especially as i actually offered you help with current information on your local crags.
The Peak District it is not. When in Rome.........
> Please tell me if I'm being unreasonable, but seriously, I'm yet to impressed by any of the climbing down here, or in fact the climbers.
Not only unreasonable but extremely arrogant and rather offensive.
When you asked me for information about your school (and the Combined Cadet Force!) using Dinder Wood i tried to explain exactly what the situation was there. I just gave you the FACTS! Most of the crags in the Mendips are privately owned with sensitive access and by following the advice that has been considered by the local activists who found, cleaned and developed the crags through much hard work then climbing can be enjoyed by all.
> After sending various emails to the appointed superiors, it's apparent that they want nothing to be done. At one particular crag, we were told never to return, because apparently the presence of 4 or 5 climbers drastically damages the natural environment and ruins the aesthetic of the crag. I believe the appropriate term is 'WTF?'...
Which crag are you talking about? As i said, at many of your local crags small groups of discreet climbers will not have any affect but school groups with mini-busses and abseilers is a totally different matter.
> If someone could explain to me how, as a climbing community, we've allowed all of the control (and apparently nonsensical politics) to be put into the hands of a select group of individuals who's primary goal is clearly not the encouragement of younger climbers and beginners. It's no wonder that the Bristol climbing gyms do so well! It's just a shambles... if they spent as much time clearing up the chossy routes as they do telling people where they're not allowed to climb, climbing in Somerset would be a whole lot more appealing.
That is very naive and ignorant. A very small group of us are currently working on the new guidebook for the Mendips (voluntary) and are putting in masses of hard work so that individual climbers like yourself can enjoy the crags.
I hope that none of the above criticisms are aimed at the email i sent you, especially as i actually offered you help with current information on your local crags.
The Peak District it is not. When in Rome.........
In reply to The Pylon King:
Okay, so now that we've ruled out the many places that I can't go, where CAN I climb?
Because this all seems to politically driven and really not very encouraging.
Okay, so now that we've ruled out the many places that I can't go, where CAN I climb?
Because this all seems to politically driven and really not very encouraging.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
Anywhere you want to as an individual climber.
> Okay, so now that we've ruled out the many places that I can't go, where CAN I climb?
> Because this all seems to politically driven and really not very encouraging.
Anywhere you want to as an individual climber.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
If its just a regular small climbing group (4 or 5 etc) without minibusses or abseiling groups, mass top roping etc then anywhere in the guidebook.
A few of us are heading over to Vallis Vale and Mells tomorrow to do some guidebook work.
If its just a regular small climbing group (4 or 5 etc) without minibusses or abseiling groups, mass top roping etc then anywhere in the guidebook.
A few of us are heading over to Vallis Vale and Mells tomorrow to do some guidebook work.
Post edited at 13:05
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
I'm going out on a limb here but you seem to be a bit of a dick. if your approaches to the general public and land owners is anything like your approach to people on here your going to get nowhere and possibly make it harder for everyone else.
I'm going out on a limb here but you seem to be a bit of a dick. if your approaches to the general public and land owners is anything like your approach to people on here your going to get nowhere and possibly make it harder for everyone else.
In reply to nick hawkins:
My frustration has only been fueled by other people's negativity. I honestly don't think it's too much to ask, to be able to take a small group of people climbing; in fact, had we not had the courtesy to check, we would have continued to climb oblivious to anybody else. So by being polite and requesting, I've managed to spark something of an uproar - completely unnecessarily. Only today, we received a phone call from somebody who had absolutely no place to say where or where not we could climb, asking 'who we though we are?'. It just seems so surreal that, in such an accepting and welcoming sport, there can be such a strong sense of elitism and negativity.
I understand that there are people with responsibility for the upkeep and protection of these crags, and I fully respect their positions. But for fellow climbers to immediately criticise and question us, seems ridiculous.
So maybe I'd seem like less of a dick, if those with responsibility (and those without...) were to be less accusatory, and actually encourage new climbers. Because, I'd much rather be climbing right now, than having this conversation, but as it stands, I have nowhere to climb.
My frustration has only been fueled by other people's negativity. I honestly don't think it's too much to ask, to be able to take a small group of people climbing; in fact, had we not had the courtesy to check, we would have continued to climb oblivious to anybody else. So by being polite and requesting, I've managed to spark something of an uproar - completely unnecessarily. Only today, we received a phone call from somebody who had absolutely no place to say where or where not we could climb, asking 'who we though we are?'. It just seems so surreal that, in such an accepting and welcoming sport, there can be such a strong sense of elitism and negativity.
I understand that there are people with responsibility for the upkeep and protection of these crags, and I fully respect their positions. But for fellow climbers to immediately criticise and question us, seems ridiculous.
So maybe I'd seem like less of a dick, if those with responsibility (and those without...) were to be less accusatory, and actually encourage new climbers. Because, I'd much rather be climbing right now, than having this conversation, but as it stands, I have nowhere to climb.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
What negativity?
please explain further.
I see no uproar, just a little bit of sensible self policing.
As i said above there is no problem with a small group going climbing in these small mendip venues but it has to be considered as many places are small private locations.
How old are you?
What negativity?
please explain further.
I see no uproar, just a little bit of sensible self policing.
As i said above there is no problem with a small group going climbing in these small mendip venues but it has to be considered as many places are small private locations.
How old are you?
Post edited at 18:22
In reply to The Pylon King:
A common issue with group use on crags on private land is that the owner can often be aggrieved that someone in these groups is actually making an income using their land.
This has been the case on a couple of crags in Dorset and, personally, I can't blame the landowners for being a bit pi$$y about it. Sadly the landowners reaction has been to ban climbing in its entirety.
I have no idea if the OP's school makes any money from these trips (or if it's just a slightly elaborate troll at Mark's expense ). However, all the landowner will see is a group of climbers in a minibus, with someone in charge, who may be being paid for taking this group to the crag. The result - climbing banned for all.
Please show a little sensitivity to how the locals have responded to your query Hugo, or go to Portland instead.
A common issue with group use on crags on private land is that the owner can often be aggrieved that someone in these groups is actually making an income using their land.
This has been the case on a couple of crags in Dorset and, personally, I can't blame the landowners for being a bit pi$$y about it. Sadly the landowners reaction has been to ban climbing in its entirety.
I have no idea if the OP's school makes any money from these trips (or if it's just a slightly elaborate troll at Mark's expense ). However, all the landowner will see is a group of climbers in a minibus, with someone in charge, who may be being paid for taking this group to the crag. The result - climbing banned for all.
Please show a little sensitivity to how the locals have responded to your query Hugo, or go to Portland instead.
In reply to steve taylor:
Hi Steve, no its not a troll.
Thanks for the support, this is what i have been trying to explain.
Hi Steve, no its not a troll.
Thanks for the support, this is what i have been trying to explain.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
You need to understand that there are quite a few crags where there are very valid reasons for saying that they shouldn't be used by groups. But if you go as a few friends and act responsibly you will be fine. When I was in the area I used to climb at split rock. Nothing easy there but it's great for setting up top ropes on the e2's and e3's and is only about 2 miles from wells.
You need to understand that there are quite a few crags where there are very valid reasons for saying that they shouldn't be used by groups. But if you go as a few friends and act responsibly you will be fine. When I was in the area I used to climb at split rock. Nothing easy there but it's great for setting up top ropes on the e2's and e3's and is only about 2 miles from wells.
In reply to steve taylor:
This is more understandable, but, as far as I'm aware this doesn't apply to our particular circumstance, and it merely a voluntary action.
It was never my intention to appear insensitive, but climbing is a big thing for me, and so I was/am willing to question the relative policies.
It's not a case of me being inconsiderate - even if that's how it seems - I just genuinely want to find a decent crag that I can take a few friends to (or be taken to with a few friends) and climb. I also, and tell me if I'm being selfish here, don't want to go climbing on something that is more dangerous than it needs to be. I want opinions and guidance, not just a lesson on how to stay on the good side of land owners.. although that seems an important factor down here.
This is more understandable, but, as far as I'm aware this doesn't apply to our particular circumstance, and it merely a voluntary action.
It was never my intention to appear insensitive, but climbing is a big thing for me, and so I was/am willing to question the relative policies.
It's not a case of me being inconsiderate - even if that's how it seems - I just genuinely want to find a decent crag that I can take a few friends to (or be taken to with a few friends) and climb. I also, and tell me if I'm being selfish here, don't want to go climbing on something that is more dangerous than it needs to be. I want opinions and guidance, not just a lesson on how to stay on the good side of land owners.. although that seems an important factor down here.
Post edited at 19:21
In reply to mountain.martin:
Went to split rock today and did some good climbing, but there's really not a great deal within my grade. As you say, fine for top roping with some friends, but really not a great place for beginners or trad.
Went to split rock today and did some good climbing, but there's really not a great deal within my grade. As you say, fine for top roping with some friends, but really not a great place for beginners or trad.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
You're just full of demands aren't you? You want good, safe climbing on rock tat other people will have taken a lot of time and effort to clean for you, with little care for the local access issues and little respect for those who are actively maintaining access to crags and keeping routes safe and clean? Good luck.
You really do come across as someone who thinks they have a God-given right to climb on perfectly manicured rock, without putting any effort in yourself.
> I also, and tell me if I'm being selfish here, don't want to go climbing on something that is more dangerous than it needs to be.
You're just full of demands aren't you? You want good, safe climbing on rock tat other people will have taken a lot of time and effort to clean for you, with little care for the local access issues and little respect for those who are actively maintaining access to crags and keeping routes safe and clean? Good luck.
You really do come across as someone who thinks they have a God-given right to climb on perfectly manicured rock, without putting any effort in yourself.
In reply to The Pylon King:
Not old enough to drive, unfortunately. A car would make this so much easier for me!
I understand your point Mark, but I just feel that there is never going to be an easy option for us, which is - as you can see - frustrating for me.
If I could go out and climb, outside of school with friends, or even a local climber I would, but unfortunately, the school has just as many policies as you do, and they have responsibility for me.
So I end up stuck in a rut, because, as you said, we can't very well get away with turning up in a school minibus unless we have permission from the land owner or the BMC.. which is proving to be difficult.
Not old enough to drive, unfortunately. A car would make this so much easier for me!
I understand your point Mark, but I just feel that there is never going to be an easy option for us, which is - as you can see - frustrating for me.
If I could go out and climb, outside of school with friends, or even a local climber I would, but unfortunately, the school has just as many policies as you do, and they have responsibility for me.
So I end up stuck in a rut, because, as you said, we can't very well get away with turning up in a school minibus unless we have permission from the land owner or the BMC.. which is proving to be difficult.
In reply to tehmarks:
I'm perfectly willing to spend as much time as necessary tidying up the climbing, but previously, when I offered I was told that it wasn't my place to do so.
I now understand that this is specific to one particular crag.
I'm not sure that you've quite understood what I meant here, but I'm sure that that was my fault.
My only demand is that I can climb. I don't mind mucking in, but in some areas this apparently upsets land owners.
I'm perfectly willing to spend as much time as necessary tidying up the climbing, but previously, when I offered I was told that it wasn't my place to do so.
I now understand that this is specific to one particular crag.
I'm not sure that you've quite understood what I meant here, but I'm sure that that was my fault.
My only demand is that I can climb. I don't mind mucking in, but in some areas this apparently upsets land owners.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
To be fair, i dont think Mark has policies. He isnt some higher authority, Just a local activist who has a good overStanding of local Access Issues. Some of Which are for Sound conservation reasons, and Others because of not so Sound Land owner reasons.
He is all for pushing open Access i reckons, and is a Nice guy.
I gave a List of Possible crags for your small group Use further up the thread i reckon youll be fine with.
Ps you would have been Better asking where is suitable for small group Use at low Grades in the area. Rather than saying all local Climbing and Climbers are a bit rubbish. Just a Thought.
To be fair, i dont think Mark has policies. He isnt some higher authority, Just a local activist who has a good overStanding of local Access Issues. Some of Which are for Sound conservation reasons, and Others because of not so Sound Land owner reasons.
He is all for pushing open Access i reckons, and is a Nice guy.
I gave a List of Possible crags for your small group Use further up the thread i reckon youll be fine with.
Ps you would have been Better asking where is suitable for small group Use at low Grades in the area. Rather than saying all local Climbing and Climbers are a bit rubbish. Just a Thought.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
Err..... you want to do something on someone else's land? For free? And you see no reason to stay on their good side?
Do you lend your stuff to people who can't be arsed to stay on your good side?
> I want opinions and guidance, not just a lesson on how to stay on the good side of land owners.. although that seems an important factor down here.
Err..... you want to do something on someone else's land? For free? And you see no reason to stay on their good side?
Do you lend your stuff to people who can't be arsed to stay on your good side?
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
I don't mean to be patronising but it seems like you are very passionate about climbing but are not aware of the problems that all of us have had to find ways of overcoming to allow climbing to actually take place.
It isn't so much of a problem in places like the peak district as most of the climbing is up on moors and on weather cleaned rock but in Somerset its a very different proposition for all of us.
As i said in the email to your instructor, i will do whatever i can to try and help your situation.
I don't mean to be patronising but it seems like you are very passionate about climbing but are not aware of the problems that all of us have had to find ways of overcoming to allow climbing to actually take place.
It isn't so much of a problem in places like the peak district as most of the climbing is up on moors and on weather cleaned rock but in Somerset its a very different proposition for all of us.
As i said in the email to your instructor, i will do whatever i can to try and help your situation.
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In reply to broken spectre:
Thanks, I'll take a look. I'm sure he is, and it sounds like he is responsible for a lot of the clearing of local crags. It's just irritating that we're unable to help/reap the benefits of his work, due to access.
It just happens that my first encounter of Mark was him advising us not to climb at Dinder, and I clearly took this the wrong way and have a badly grounded judgement of him.. so is the nature of forums and emailing...
Thanks, I'll take a look. I'm sure he is, and it sounds like he is responsible for a lot of the clearing of local crags. It's just irritating that we're unable to help/reap the benefits of his work, due to access.
It just happens that my first encounter of Mark was him advising us not to climb at Dinder, and I clearly took this the wrong way and have a badly grounded judgement of him.. so is the nature of forums and emailing...
In reply to The Pylon King:
Thanks very much. Please do get in touch if you would like any help with the conservation. As I said in my email, we're more than happy to assist.
Thanks very much. Please do get in touch if you would like any help with the conservation. As I said in my email, we're more than happy to assist.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
No worries. Dark Mavies is alright
Were a Friendly bunch in these parts, really, your first post was a bit stabby.
check out the crags i Listed earlier, they should be on the database here, no need to book for a small group there.
I get youre Frustrated because youre bound by rules of your school for hooking up with Other climbers.
No worries. Dark Mavies is alright
Were a Friendly bunch in these parts, really, your first post was a bit stabby.
check out the crags i Listed earlier, they should be on the database here, no need to book for a small group there.
I get youre Frustrated because youre bound by rules of your school for hooking up with Other climbers.
In reply to broken spectre:
Where's best to do this? Where's the nearest club?
(I can try, if it seems legit..)
> I get youre Frustrated because youre bound by rules of your school for hooking up with Other climbers.
Where's best to do this? Where's the nearest club?
(I can try, if it seems legit..)
Post edited at 20:04
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
couldnt be sure for wells Mate. Pylon King or deepstar of this Parish Probably best to advise you there. Hopefully they will
couldnt be sure for wells Mate. Pylon King or deepstar of this Parish Probably best to advise you there. Hopefully they will
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
Join the BMC and then Fairy Cave and Cheddar are open to you... and quit whining like a spoiled brat! Climbing here is great!
Wintours, Cheddar, Brean, Avon, Dartmoor area, Swanage, Goblin... the list goes on!
Join the BMC and then Fairy Cave and Cheddar are open to you... and quit whining like a spoiled brat! Climbing here is great!
Wintours, Cheddar, Brean, Avon, Dartmoor area, Swanage, Goblin... the list goes on!
In reply to ianlaw:
Hi Ian. Long Time no see, hope youre well
Dont think its that simple for Hugo. Hes at a boarding school in wells. Cant Just get in a car or on a bus to a crag when he Likes.
He Sounds a bit frustrated. hopefully he can get Taken to some easy Access crags in Somerset, or join a Legit club to go out with Other climbers.
Ps theres no BMC Requirement for FCQ
> Join the BMC and then Fairy Cave and Cheddar are open to you... and quit whining like a spoiled brat! Climbing here is great!
> Wintours, Cheddar, Brean, Avon, Dartmoor area, Swanage, Goblin... the list goes on!
Hi Ian. Long Time no see, hope youre well
Dont think its that simple for Hugo. Hes at a boarding school in wells. Cant Just get in a car or on a bus to a crag when he Likes.
He Sounds a bit frustrated. hopefully he can get Taken to some easy Access crags in Somerset, or join a Legit club to go out with Other climbers.
Ps theres no BMC Requirement for FCQ
Post edited at 20:27
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
then youre Sorted for cheddar :-D
> (In reply to broken spectre)
>
> (although I am a BMC member)
>
> (although I am a BMC member)
then youre Sorted for cheddar :-D
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
youll be fine at crags i listed earlier with a group.
But, lets nail this down now. How big is your group?
> (In reply to broken spectre)
>
> Don't allow groups... :/
>
> Don't allow groups... :/
youll be fine at crags i listed earlier with a group.
But, lets nail this down now. How big is your group?
In reply to broken spectre:
No more than half a dozen, but often just 2 or 3.
Unfortunately, as a professional institution, it's expected that we make our presence known, and as soon as the word group is mentioned, doors start closing.
There's also the good old issue of insurance, if a kid falls and breaks something, and it turns out that they were on land that they weren't supposed to be on, things get messy.
No more than half a dozen, but often just 2 or 3.
Unfortunately, as a professional institution, it's expected that we make our presence known, and as soon as the word group is mentioned, doors start closing.
There's also the good old issue of insurance, if a kid falls and breaks something, and it turns out that they were on land that they weren't supposed to be on, things get messy.
Post edited at 20:50
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
Hey Hugo, who is the person that takes you out?
I find it strange that the choice of venue/access agreements is not arranged by an adult.
Good luck with finding somewhere suitable.
Hey Hugo, who is the person that takes you out?
I find it strange that the choice of venue/access agreements is not arranged by an adult.
Good luck with finding somewhere suitable.
Post edited at 20:54
In reply to FreshSlate:
He's also trying, but I wanted to get a general consensus, as to where would be appropriate.
He's also trying, but I wanted to get a general consensus, as to where would be appropriate.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
I have absolutely no knowledge of the rights and wrongs in this debate and can see there has clearly been a few misunderstandings but . . .whatever else you can say about Hugo, his boarding education clearly shows. You may not agree with his points but they are well written.
I have absolutely no knowledge of the rights and wrongs in this debate and can see there has clearly been a few misunderstandings but . . .whatever else you can say about Hugo, his boarding education clearly shows. You may not agree with his points but they are well written.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
you see that is fine but....
Yes, you see, many crags have no formal access but the small amount of climbing there goes unnoticed (most of the time), organised groups are a very different matter.
Exactly!
> No more than half a dozen, but often just 2 or 3.
you see that is fine but....
> Unfortunately, as a professional institution, it's expected that we make our presence known, and as soon as the word group is mentioned, doors start closing.
Yes, you see, many crags have no formal access but the small amount of climbing there goes unnoticed (most of the time), organised groups are a very different matter.
> There's also the good old issue of insurance, if a kid falls and breaks something, and it turns out that they were on land that they weren't supposed to be on, things get messy.
Exactly!
In reply to spearing05:
Relevance?
> I have absolutely no knowledge of the rights and wrongs in this debate and can see there has clearly been a few misunderstandings but . . .whatever else you can say about Hugo, his boarding education clearly shows. You may not agree with his points but they are well written.
Relevance?
In reply to broken spectre:
Yeah there are... you have to email your BMC number to get the pincode, no?
How are you? Been out much?
Yeah there are... you have to email your BMC number to get the pincode, no?
How are you? Been out much?
Post edited at 21:11
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
Having read down this thread it seems to me that the problem lies with the school not the local climbing or climbers. There's lots of decent climbing in Somerset and it's mostly listed in the guide books. Yes it's mainly limestone, tough! Your problem seems to be that the school has rules re. prior arrangements etc and doesn't seem able (or maybe hasn't been asked) to arrange for small (and on the face of it) recreational groups to use any of the venues in the same way that local climbers have been doing for years.
I think many of the responses have been more helpful and constructive than may have been expected given the opening post. All in all they're a good bunch down Someset way.
Having read down this thread it seems to me that the problem lies with the school not the local climbing or climbers. There's lots of decent climbing in Somerset and it's mostly listed in the guide books. Yes it's mainly limestone, tough! Your problem seems to be that the school has rules re. prior arrangements etc and doesn't seem able (or maybe hasn't been asked) to arrange for small (and on the face of it) recreational groups to use any of the venues in the same way that local climbers have been doing for years.
I think many of the responses have been more helpful and constructive than may have been expected given the opening post. All in all they're a good bunch down Someset way.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
How's it going?
As Gerry suggests perhaps it might be an idea to reconsider the announcement rule. I know of many groups that do not announce their visit to the landowner, of course they are extremely responsible and are very careful not to risk access and are polite and considerate of other climbers. Basically if there's only 4 or 5 of you, you're not really a 'group'. I understand if there are insurance reasons for your announcing yourselves... However, if there are insurance reasons on both sides then you cannot really complain at the landowner's red tape if you can not get around your own.
I'm disappointed at a few on here trying to win an argument with a school boy, you've not won any man points here, you're just a bit sad. Just explain the situation and why he's wrong, is that so hard without getting personal?
How's it going?
As Gerry suggests perhaps it might be an idea to reconsider the announcement rule. I know of many groups that do not announce their visit to the landowner, of course they are extremely responsible and are very careful not to risk access and are polite and considerate of other climbers. Basically if there's only 4 or 5 of you, you're not really a 'group'. I understand if there are insurance reasons for your announcing yourselves... However, if there are insurance reasons on both sides then you cannot really complain at the landowner's red tape if you can not get around your own.
I'm disappointed at a few on here trying to win an argument with a school boy, you've not won any man points here, you're just a bit sad. Just explain the situation and why he's wrong, is that so hard without getting personal?
Post edited at 16:19
In reply to FreshSlate:
Interesting how different perspectives can be, isn't it? For example, I've just read through this thread and what impressed me is how (generally) courteously the OP has been treated, given the tone and content of his original post. It seems to me that generous allowance has already been made for his tender age.
> I'm disappointed at a few on here trying to win an argument with a school boy, you've not won any man points here, you're just a bit sad. Just explain the situation and why he's wrong, is that so hard without getting personal?
Interesting how different perspectives can be, isn't it? For example, I've just read through this thread and what impressed me is how (generally) courteously the OP has been treated, given the tone and content of his original post. It seems to me that generous allowance has already been made for his tender age.
In reply to The Pylon King:
Absolutely none. As I read through the discussion I was just struck by how well written his replies were. I'm sorry I had the temerity to make the observation.
Absolutely none. As I read through the discussion I was just struck by how well written his replies were. I'm sorry I had the temerity to make the observation.
In reply to spearing05:
I thought mine were quite well written as well, considering i went to one of the worst state schools of the 1970's and dropped out to form a punk band .
I thought mine were quite well written as well, considering i went to one of the worst state schools of the 1970's and dropped out to form a punk band .
In reply to bpmclimb:
I agree. The vast majority have been able to do this...
> Interesting how different perspectives can be, isn't it? For example, I've just read through this thread and what impressed me is how (generally) courteously the OP has been treated, given the tone and content of his original post. It seems to me that generous allowance has already been made for his tender age.
I agree. The vast majority have been able to do this...
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
A little appreciation of what you have got rarely goes amiss. You are still at school, but are already familiar with a crag like Stanage. You are studying at a place that it clearly doing what it can to encourage and support outdoor activities, the paperwork teachers have to go through to get the go ahead for a hazardous activity like climbing is significant, the teacher that is taking you out must have considerable energy and enthusiasm to wade through the red tape.
Somerset is not the Peak (which is fairly unique in UK terms - having a wide range of easily accessible group use friendly crags). Others have done their best to suggest some crags you might be able to use as a group locally, and clearly if you start climbing independently of your school there is a whole lot more to go at. Within reasonable traveling distance you have Portland and Dartmoor which both have plenty of good group venues - perhaps you could suggest these as day trip destinations to your teacher.
Climbers (as this thread shows) are not the problem, the access we do enjoy to many Somerset crags is due to the continuing efforts of local activists - plenty of hard negotiating and hard graft cleaning and equipping crags has gone on in the last few years. To get the most from the local scene, try to understand and embrace the local ethics - it can seem a mysterious and obstructive scene - but it would be a whole lot worse without the work climbers have put in.
The fact that some of the most prominent activists in the area have (or are in the process of) writing guidebooks suggests to me that they are keen to share the (admittedly sometimes questionable) delights of the local crags, there is certainly no murky secret society of "in the know" Somerset aficionados you are being excluded from.
A little appreciation of what you have got rarely goes amiss. You are still at school, but are already familiar with a crag like Stanage. You are studying at a place that it clearly doing what it can to encourage and support outdoor activities, the paperwork teachers have to go through to get the go ahead for a hazardous activity like climbing is significant, the teacher that is taking you out must have considerable energy and enthusiasm to wade through the red tape.
Somerset is not the Peak (which is fairly unique in UK terms - having a wide range of easily accessible group use friendly crags). Others have done their best to suggest some crags you might be able to use as a group locally, and clearly if you start climbing independently of your school there is a whole lot more to go at. Within reasonable traveling distance you have Portland and Dartmoor which both have plenty of good group venues - perhaps you could suggest these as day trip destinations to your teacher.
Climbers (as this thread shows) are not the problem, the access we do enjoy to many Somerset crags is due to the continuing efforts of local activists - plenty of hard negotiating and hard graft cleaning and equipping crags has gone on in the last few years. To get the most from the local scene, try to understand and embrace the local ethics - it can seem a mysterious and obstructive scene - but it would be a whole lot worse without the work climbers have put in.
The fact that some of the most prominent activists in the area have (or are in the process of) writing guidebooks suggests to me that they are keen to share the (admittedly sometimes questionable) delights of the local crags, there is certainly no murky secret society of "in the know" Somerset aficionados you are being excluded from.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
I've been group climbing at Fairy Cave and it's pretty good (love the crumbly stuff!) They probably denied you access after talking to you and realising you're a knob jockey
> (In reply to Mr-Cowdrey)
>
> I did so. I sent an email volunteering to do exactly that, and was politely told to piss off. Fairy Cave, Cheddar and Goblin Combe all restrict group access. I'm yet to inquire about Brean Down.
>
> I did so. I sent an email volunteering to do exactly that, and was politely told to piss off. Fairy Cave, Cheddar and Goblin Combe all restrict group access. I'm yet to inquire about Brean Down.
I've been group climbing at Fairy Cave and it's pretty good (love the crumbly stuff!) They probably denied you access after talking to you and realising you're a knob jockey
In reply to tehmarks:
Indeed well, said. I was at fcq yesterday and had a rather jolly time. I took the time to cut back brambles at the top of routes with a pair of snips and still managed to to get 6 routes in. Of course If you want to que for routes go to stanage.
Indeed well, said. I was at fcq yesterday and had a rather jolly time. I took the time to cut back brambles at the top of routes with a pair of snips and still managed to to get 6 routes in. Of course If you want to que for routes go to stanage.
In reply to Hugo Dodsworth:
Most of the crags in Somerset are on privately owned land (unlike many Peak District crags which are on CROW land) and in many cases the owners have specifically denied access to climbers. This is particularly the case with quarries. (The Holcombe quarries for example.) Currently we have access agreements for Fairy Cave, Sandford, Portishead etc but even so the agreements are often for recreational use not for instruction. Not unreasonably landowners are concerned about litigation and although case law shows that climbers know the risks and dangers involved this is not always the case with children and young people so there may be parents, carers etc who will sue landowners following an accident. (This has happened at Cookswood Quarry, Holcombe when a lad killed himself tomb stoning in the lake.) Even if the outcome goes in the landowners favour there may be substantial defence costs and a great deal of hassle.
Climbers use many crags where no access agreement exists by keeping a low profile, not causing damage and being courteous if approached by owners or their agents. Small groups of 2 or 3 beginners with a teacher should not present a problem at many crags but a minibus full of students with staff are very likely to draw the attention of owners, agents (including tenant farmers etc), locals etc which could lead to a total ban.
Like Mark I'll contact your teacher to suggest some possible crags for school small group climbing but I'm afraid it won't be of the quality or quantity you found in the Peak.
If you are serious about getting involved with climbing locally I suggest you come to a BMC area meeting when it's next in Bristol. Maybe you could persuade your teacher to take you. At the meeting you will meet other local climbers (although they are often the older climbers who are trying to put something back into the sport they love), find out about the local access issues and local climbing initiatives such as Climb Bristol. Details are in the 'Local Areas' section of the BMC website.
Sorry for the rambling reply.
Ian Butterworth
BMC Access Rep for Somerset & Mendips
Most of the crags in Somerset are on privately owned land (unlike many Peak District crags which are on CROW land) and in many cases the owners have specifically denied access to climbers. This is particularly the case with quarries. (The Holcombe quarries for example.) Currently we have access agreements for Fairy Cave, Sandford, Portishead etc but even so the agreements are often for recreational use not for instruction. Not unreasonably landowners are concerned about litigation and although case law shows that climbers know the risks and dangers involved this is not always the case with children and young people so there may be parents, carers etc who will sue landowners following an accident. (This has happened at Cookswood Quarry, Holcombe when a lad killed himself tomb stoning in the lake.) Even if the outcome goes in the landowners favour there may be substantial defence costs and a great deal of hassle.
Climbers use many crags where no access agreement exists by keeping a low profile, not causing damage and being courteous if approached by owners or their agents. Small groups of 2 or 3 beginners with a teacher should not present a problem at many crags but a minibus full of students with staff are very likely to draw the attention of owners, agents (including tenant farmers etc), locals etc which could lead to a total ban.
Like Mark I'll contact your teacher to suggest some possible crags for school small group climbing but I'm afraid it won't be of the quality or quantity you found in the Peak.
If you are serious about getting involved with climbing locally I suggest you come to a BMC area meeting when it's next in Bristol. Maybe you could persuade your teacher to take you. At the meeting you will meet other local climbers (although they are often the older climbers who are trying to put something back into the sport they love), find out about the local access issues and local climbing initiatives such as Climb Bristol. Details are in the 'Local Areas' section of the BMC website.
Sorry for the rambling reply.
Ian Butterworth
BMC Access Rep for Somerset & Mendips
In reply to The Pylon King:
To be fair they are though I suspect the standard of English language and comprehension expected of even the worst state school in the 70's was considerably higher than today. This is of course a very subjective opinion given I wasn't born till '78. I just wish some of the engineers in work (not to mention a few managers) could present their reports as clearly.
To be fair they are though I suspect the standard of English language and comprehension expected of even the worst state school in the 70's was considerably higher than today. This is of course a very subjective opinion given I wasn't born till '78. I just wish some of the engineers in work (not to mention a few managers) could present their reports as clearly.
In reply to Ian Butterworth:
Thanks Ian, this makes things a lot clearer. As I said to Mark, please inform us of any crag clearing that we can help out with, as this seems to be the primary issue.
Thanks Ian, this makes things a lot clearer. As I said to Mark, please inform us of any crag clearing that we can help out with, as this seems to be the primary issue.
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