UKC

"Inspired by hearing the story of pregnant woman Meriam Yehya Ibrahim, who has been sentenced to death in Sudan after refusing to recant her Christian beliefs" we have a Northern Irish preacher declaring that:

"Islam is heathen, Islam is Satanic, Islam is a doctrine spawned in Hell."

Note that the phrasing is about the ideology, not about people. It is "Islam" that is "spawned in Hell", not Muslims. That to me makes the speech something that should be acceptable and accepted in a free society, though of course anyone is then free to voice their disagreement with this preacher.

But, as usually happens nowadays, "Police are aware of an incident at premises at the Shore Road on Sunday, May 18. Enquiries are continuing, and at this stage police are investigating a hate crime motive".

Leading the complaints is Martin McGuinness, who declared that "This type of hate-mongering must be condemned in the strongest terms" and "said Sinn Fein will be raising the matter at the Policing Board." [Maybe he can tell the police all about his past as a gun-toting IRA Chief of Staff and his own participation in many murders, while he's at it?]

Muslim leaders from the Belfast Islamic Centre and the city's mosque have condemned the remarks (which is of course fair enough). As far as I'm aware, they have not publicly condemned the sentencing to death of the Sudanese woman for not being a Muslim (though of course they may have done but without it being publicised).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/sudan/108442...

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/jame...

In reply to Coel Hellier:

I see your point about free speech.
But really its like blaming Christianity for Fred Phelps.

Its a pointless stupid unhelpful thing to say.

Still as far as I am aware idiots have the right to express stupid opinions.

In reply to marsbar:


Not really, since it is a ruling made by the Sudanese legal system based on Sudanese law and inspired by Islam, it's very different from just one fringe person's interpretation of Christianity.

In reply to Coel Hellier:



If I understand you right you are saying that criticism of ideas is fine but criticism of individuals is not.

I have some sympathy with this view. However, I'm not sure it's possible to separate an idea from an individual in that way. After all, you need individuals to have ideas and we get quite attached to them.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

"My belief system says that if you cease to believe in my belief system and believe in another belief system, we'll kill you"

Sounds like a pretty barbaric and evil belief system to me, and a fairly obvious and truthful thing to say.

Whats the problem?

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Ok then Uganda. Blame all Christianity for the treatment of gay people there. He isnt one fringe person he is just an example of extreme christianity and that it would be ridiculous to assume that all christians were the same.

In reply to ThunderCat:

Its all about interpretation...

In reply to Coel Hellier:

While we wait for the Sudanese government to cave in the face of sustained criticism from three blokes at the Belfast Islamic centre, have you checked that the Northern Irish preacher has condemned the mass killings of Muslims in the CAR by the Christian anti-balaka militias in recent weeks (though of course he may have done so but without it being publicised)?

Only seems fair.

And more seriously you could perhaps see why PSNI are relatively sensitive to worries about people stoking religious hatred. We grew up hearing Paisley Snr ranting about the papists being in league with the devil etc. and even if he was just condemning Catholicism as an ideology and not Catholics as individuals, you could perhaps see why the victims of Loyalist hit squads might not see the distinction as clearly as you do.

In reply to DaveHK:


I don't know about "fine", but for criticism of ideas to become a police matter, now that is a chilling thought.

Frankly people should be free to call religion evil. It's what religions have been saying about the heathen unbelievers for some time, or do good people burn in hell?...

In reply to marsbar:


I think you can indeed severely censor Christianity for its attitudes to gay people, not just in the more extreme case of Uganda but also in countries like ours where gay acts were illegal only a generation ago, and where the drive to equality has been steadily opposed by the churches.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Censor or censure?

In reply to elsewhere:


Censor, it would be nice to, know how many of them there are

While we're on the subject of evil religions I just heard on the radio that in the Maldives the islamic government has just decided to reintroduce the death penalty for children, but only for really serious offences like wanting to leave the muslim religion! Not to worry though, this measure will only apply to children of 7 years old or more.

In reply to elsewhere:


Good point!, I wrote that before my morning coffee