UKC

This has come up on forums before, but there are almost too many options...
You want to get back from the summit of High Man to your bag at the base of, say, Rib and Slab or to tick both classic rock routes. From the photos it looks like Old West is the best way down but all the books say to use Slab in Notch.
Which is best?
I only have the old select guide and don't have the scrambles book either. I assume Old West goes down the north ridge to Low Man then traverses across into West Cove.
All sounds ver complicated...

In reply to alan moore:

You are pretty close. Slab and Notch and the gully/ slope to the right of New West is the easiest way down if you find the best route.Easier it find if you have done it up first.

There is also usually abseil slings in place to short cut the above route, very easy to find. Ab length about 20m, I think ( I climbed down.)

In reply to alan moore:

Ah yes, always an entertainment for the first few trips!

If you want to get back to the start of Rib and Slab, then the Old West is probably the more direct route. As you say, down off the nose of High Man to Low Man, and then it traverses back towards the mountain. Fine in the dry, rather precarious if damp.

Slab and Notch takes you off the east side of the rock, so having got down, you need to go up the scree to get you above Pisgah, and the drop down Western Gully. Don't get drawn into Jordan Gap (between High Man & Pisgah) as the gully down from there is kind of vertical. Slab and Notch is probably considerably easier than Old West if it's at all slimy.

Or, as suggested - you can ab into Jordan Gap. You then need to down climb/ab another short gully on the east, to close to the start of Slab and Notch. Then up the scree, behind Pisgah, and down Western Gully as above.

Old West would be best done still in rock boots, but if you're heading down the other side of the rock, I'd take trainers for the trek up the scree and down the gully.

I hope I've remembered all of that right and it makes sense....!

In reply to alan moore:

My memory of the Western Gully is that it's a bit nasty/bald, with some friable rock. So take care (prob best to leave sacks at top). Slab and Notch is very easy, juggy. Old West looks a bit scary - I haven't done it - probably fine once you know it/ have found the correct route.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

My memory of Old West is the route follows a fairly obvious (but small - foot width) break traversing downwards across the West face of Low Man - so not too hard to find, but certainly airy and exposed. I'm almost certain I first did it in descent, and had no great difficulty finding it - but quite an experience. They are some (possibly fairly limited) gear placements if you wanted to protect it a bit. And I've known experienced people ab off and abandon a sling rather than down climb the bottom bit in the wet.

Western Gully is much as you describe - mix of mud and friable rock, and generally fairly grotty. It'd be a nightmare in rock boots, I imagine, though OK in fell shoes/boots, and somewhere I'd chose to wear a helmet. I've been worse places..... but that's about all I can say for it!

In reply to Carolyn:

Sounds like the Old West Route then is much the best way. I've come down the W Gully twice, second time with a heavy sack, Hasselblad and big tripod, and it was 'quite' worrying!

In reply to alan moore:

we usually leave our rucksacks at the start of the slab and notch, then from the top of pillar rock, after you have climbed, its just a quick decent back to them

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

We did have a film crew with us last time I went up Western Gully (with MRT), but they decided to stay down in the cove and film from there, so I can't better your efforts!

Old West would certainly be my first choice if the main aim was to get back to bottom of Rib and Slab. The top bit, from High Man down to Low Man, is a great blocky scramble.

You really have three options all of which involve either exposed scrambling/Moderate down climbing or abseiling or both. Which is more time consuming depends on how happy you are soloing Mod above a huge void - someone moving well will get down Slab and Notch to the Jordan Gap quicker than someone setting an ab up off the summit, abbing down and pulling the ropes down and coiling them.

From the Jordan Gap you can, as suggested, descend East Jordan Gully and then scramble up round the back of Pisgah and descend Western Gully (no worse than many other tricky descents, like Lord's Rake for instance).

Quicker is to traverse right onto Pisgah from the highest point of the Jordan Gap (Pisgah West Traverse 10m Mod) which takes you round to the top of Pisgah and then it's easy to gain Western Gully. This misses out a lot of descending and ascending again.

Finally Old West. The upper part of this is quite tricky to descend especially if it is damp as the rock is lichenous and mossy in places. The lower part is often used to get to the West Face of High Man from the summit of Low Man.

If it was me, I'd solo down Slab and Notch, then do Pisgah West Traverse, then down Western Gully. I'd also buy the latest guidebook

In reply to Carolyn:


Yes, I've done that in ascent after doing that wonderful ancient VS, North-west Route (or NNW Route depending on guidebook) - anyhow that thing with Lamb's and Oppenheimer's 'Chimneys'.

In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:


That's good to know - must go up there sometime when it's not dripping water off Pisgah!


Banned to a Premier Post!
But yes, the photographs do make it all a lot easier.

In reply to Carolyn:
Thanks for the knowledge, All.

In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:
Unfortunately, getting the guide was not an option as I nipped down from Scotland at 4am this morning. Bagged both classic rock routes, using Old West first, then Slab,Notch, Pisgah West Traverse to descend.
Thanks again for accurate info.
Very impressed with the routes as well!

In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

I must apologise for misinformation - don't know what I was thinking of, after all I've been up and down Slab and Notch often enough!

Descending Slab and Notch does not take you down into the Jordan Gap, it takes you to the foot of East Jordan Gully, so the descent then would be up and round by Western Gully. Only abseiling takes you to the Jordan Gap whereupon the Pisgah West Face Traverse could be used to avoid having to descent East Jordan Gully.

However, if abseiling, there is an alternative and that is to abseil past the Jordan Gap and down West Jordan Gully. 50m ropes will just reach flattish ground at the bottom. When pulling the ropes down it is best to drag the down rope out across the scree and up onto the ridge opposite before pulling it down fully. This will stop any loose rock dislodged from falling on your head and also mean there is less chance of the ropes becoming snagged.

In reply to Carolyn:

Did a time trial yesterday. Two parties of two left the summit at the same time, one descended Old West, the other abbed from the summit all the way down West Jordan Gully. Result a draw as to who got down first but then the abbing party had difficulty pulling the rope down so the Old West Group won. So you are right!

In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

LOL - I see a rescue team challenge coming on at the next Gillerthwaite weekend....

I suspect abbing West Jordan Gully has even less merit than descending Western Gully. Were the ropes anchored on the top of Pillar?

In reply to Carolyn:



Yes - that's right. Very atmospheric ab down West Jordan Gully but we almost had to got back to the summit to retrieve the ropes so I'm not sure I'd do it again. And the ab blocks are a bit hollow sounding too.

It would be interesting to set three teams off at once, Old West, Slab & Notch plus West Gully, and abbing. I suspect there's little in it as long as all the climbers are happing down soloing Mod.

In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

I found Old West by far the quickest. Straightforward scrambling that led directly down to the start of Rib and Slab.
Slab and Notch was harder, more slippery, more circuitous and still left a long shamble down the scree to the start.
Surely abseiling is a bit of a cop-out???

In reply to alan moore:


Surely that comment belongs on a Cuillin Ridge thread?