UKC

Is anyone who's climbed the route recently (in the last few years) able to comment on the condition of the pegs? They don't look confidence-inspiring from the ground.

More importantly, is there anything worth its weight to back them up? Scottish Rock Climbs says the route is high in the grade - if the pegs are rotten, does it become a total sandbag?

In reply to Andy Moles:

I climbed Gladiator's Groove Direct in checking for the guide. But from what I've written, I obviously didn't touch the pegs, only looked. And that was 10 years ago, so I'm not answering your question.

While we're here I'd like to quote Mr McClure in a recent interview, regarding another Cobbler classic:

"Though pegs have become an integral part if UK climbing they have also become one of our biggest problems. They will eventually snap. They are kind of unfair, as only the first ascentionist knows the score. It could be a total sport route, but then 20 years later is about to become E9, but you only find out when you fall off. Someone is gonna get really hurt..."

So can I ab in and replace them or what...?

In reply to Andy Moles:




Sure, why not?
What`s the worst that could happen?
You`ll be doing someone a service.
Crack on.

In reply to Andy Moles:

Most of the Scottish guide books state that pegs are unacceptable in summer for new routes.

I thought this was the same for replacing pegs on old routes, but I'm not sure.

In reply to Colin Moody:
Yeah I only suggested it tongue-in-cheek really, though I would rather have a new peg than a manky old one myself. If they are rotten I'd probably be more inclined to knock them out (if possible) and who knows, maybe reveal a micro-gear slot?

But I imagine some wouldn't be pleased with that solution either. If it's still good enough to bash out in one piece, my call of 'pointless and unsafe' might be someone else's 'I'd have used that'. So I guess in the interest of the status quo they'll remain until someone snaps one or they dissolve into rusty stains.

Pegs eh.

In reply to Colin Moody:


I think most people agree with this.


I think this is different. The pegs are already there so you are not putting something new in, only replacing something that is already present. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with replacing of old pegs (except if modern protection would allow you to replace the peg with a piece of gear).


I've looked at Osiris before, it's a nice looking piece of rock but I never felt like manning up to it!

In reply to henwardian:

I was under the impression that the Scottish ethic was generally not to remove pegs but not to replace them either - just let them get worse, fall out and the routes get harder over time. (The idea presumably being that if they're frowned upon for new routes, then there should be a gradual 'natural' phasing out of them on established climbs also.)

In reply to Andy Moles:


Why not ab in and have a look? The pegs could turn out to be fine and/or you might find placements for modern gear.

In reply to Andy Moles:

My gut feel is it hasn't been done for a long time. Did gladiators groove direct last year and the harder routes looked abit manky, so you'd probably want someone to brush it for you anyway if going for the onsight. If you are going to head point it, which may be advisable given the lack of traffic and questionable gear then you will be in a better position to consider if there is anything else available or if some / all of the pegs need replaced.

Give me a shout if you need a belay. I'd thought about head pointing it at some point ( for reasons listed above ...)

In reply to aln:
That's probably what I'll do - I'm not out to peg it for badness!

In reply to Burnsie:

I would like to have a look at some point. I'm guessing you have to climb the first pitch of GGD or Ardgartan Arete to access the top...?

This is hypothetical when I haven't seen them yet, but if a peg is 'just about OK', is it better to try to get it out while that's still possible, or just let it rust away?

I see the peg on Surface Tension at Auchinstarry has been recently replaced...

In reply to Andy Moles:

I'd take it out and replace. particularly if you want an e4 to remain. ..

In reply to Andy Moles:



New one in there? I remember the guy who pulled it out mentioned micro gear in it's place...

In reply to Andy Moles:

If there's no good gear there I think replacing the peg makes sense - otherwise the route just fall into total neglect.

In reply to kwoods:


Yeah according to the route page on UKC, it was replaced on 20th May. No idea who replaced it. I'd imagine some sort of slider or narrow-headed micro-cam might have gone in its place?

In reply to Michael Gordon:


I don't think there is a unified Scottish ethic on replacing old pegs with new ones. If nothing else, this thread shows quite a variety of opinions on the matter.

New pegs definitely still get placed (off the top of my head, I remember Dave MacLeod placing one on one of the islands somewhere in that "7 new routes, 7 islands, 7 days" film.) I expect there are quite a few similar examples in Scotland in recent years that just don't happen to be in a film I saw.

I don't think pegs are nearly as divisive as bolts. At the end of the day, pegs are still a way of placing gear, rather than "manufacturing" a protection point where one doesn't exist.

I also feel like the placement of pegs is more under control. It's a very small number of very specific placements on a few routes, unlike the sort of out-of-control bolting of whole sectors that goes on.
(A quick trip to some popular routes in the dolomites is a good way to see loads of agressively unnecessary pegging though! (Which is not to disrespect that particular ethic in that particular area - I enjoy clmbing these routes very much))

In reply to henwardian:


Pretty sure you're incorrect there. Don't think MacLeod is generally in favour of pegs on summer routes. He said as much when he repeated Dalriada (that it would be a better route without the pegs), if I recall correctly. Almost certain that he hasn't placed any on a new rock route.

In reply to Michael Gordon:


youtube.com/watch?v=9gLLOE0fYTM&

0:23 Peg on the roof of The Realm E8 6c, 6b new route.

In reply to henwardian:

That's interesting, thanks for that. I stand corrected!

I suspect that was a one off.

Years ago there were lots of pegs, places like Dunkeld, Polldubh, Etive and on many mountain cliffs, but they seem to be rare these days (in my opinion).

In reply to Colin Moody:


I would agree it's rare. But I wouldn't go as far as not replacing old pegs, and letting great routes disappear. Like the crucial peg on Cupid's Bow (Shelter Stone) was replaced by Julian Lines a few years ago. And the same would go for Osiris, assuming modern gear doesn't fit.

In reply to Andy Moles:

My ethic/aesthetic seems to accord with the most commonly expressed view on the thread: if pegs are necessary to maintain the character and historical grade of a classic route (as is likely the case with Osiris) then they should be replaced when they become dubious, but only if modern trad gear does not provide a possible alternative.

I recognise though, that this ethic is probably as dubious as the current pegs of Osiris in the eyes of a prospective ascentionist. Good luck!