UKC

The access position at Foredale Quarry has been sensitive for some time with the land ownership of the quarry itself being in doubt. Since the withdrawal of access via the previously agreed route in 2011 climbing had continued in a low key way by approaching from above via the surrounding access land with no significant challenge. However the farmer, Mr Pearson has recently confirmed to the local National Park ranger that he has this year acquired full ownership rights and intends to continue his opposition to climbing. In the short term further negotiation appears fruitless and the BMCs RAD has been updated accordingly.

In reply to Dave Musgrove:


Thanks for the info.
Any updates on Blue Scar Dave?

In reply to Dave Musgrove:


The way this is put it almost sounds as if he acquired the extra land simply to prevent access. That can't be it can it? What did we ever do to him?!

In reply to Dave Garnett:

You mean apart from blocking access, parking where specifically told not to, climbing there when asked not to, urinating in the area, arguing, being noisy?

Nothing really.


Chris

Oh, I forgot - running courses there?

In reply to scott quinn:

No change in official access position at Blue but bird ban has been lifted for this year. The landowner still requires you to apply for written permission as per the RAD.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

As I understand it the estate that managed and owned several parcels of old land formally owned by the Skipton Lime works in that area has now put some up for sale but apparently has effectively given bits that have been historically used as farm land within existing farms (such as Foredale quarry) to the farmers. If only we'd known they were trying to get rid we could have put a bid in!

In reply to Chris Craggs:

You forgot lighting fires and camping.

Shame. Not the best rock in the world but a pleasant spot with a good spread of grades.

In reply to Dave Musgrove:

hmm seems he must hate me I've emailed for the application about 10 times I shall persist!!

Thanks.

In reply to Chris Craggs:





Chris,

People 'running courses' generally try really hard to ensure that they aren't 'blocking access, parking where specifically told not to, climbing there when asked not to, urinating in the area, arguing, being noisy?' That tends to be 'climbers'.

Sure there is an issue to debate about people earning money by running 'activities' on other people's land - and that has some big implications re CRoW - but I'm not so sure that folks 'running courses' (and I'm unclear how a Harrogate Climbing Centre course is substantially different to a Leeds Uni meet in terms of impact) had much to do with this ban.

Cheers

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Ah, OK, I guess that might do it. I'm not local so didn't know the history.

In reply to scott quinn:

I had a prompt reply from Patrick Walker regarding access to blue scar.

In reply to Steve Crowe:

What was the e-mail address Steve? Sure I have the right one.

In reply to andyathome:

You need to be on some Peak crags (and also Almscliffe!) when the 'instructors' show up. Recently been grumbled at for wanting to lead a route and moving the pre-set top rope to one side. The 'instructor' said; "We were going to do that route in a few minutes, didn't you see our rope?" They had four ropes set up on the Ants area of Yarncliffe Quarry. I explained calmly that as there was no one actually climbing the route I had every right to climb it. Pre-booking by placing a rope was inconsiderate. I also pointed out that his van was completely blocking the gate, but he said "No-one ever wants to open the gate so it is not important" . Compare this with another experience, where the instructor was apologetic, asked what we were going to do, rigged his gear so that, as we moved across the crag, he kept his charges out of the way. A good time was had by all, no intolerance, the resting students watched us climb, asked intelligent questions etc. We chatted with the group, had a laugh, a much better experience for all concerned.
Many 'commercial' instructed groups appear to believe they have a right to do what they want at a crag, park where it suits (as they have big vans and need to keep their charges safe.) book routes well before they actually start to use them, and then set up an abseil down the most vulnerable routes (where they can scrape off the last vestiges of small rounded holds), as that is the place where they can't climb up. I heard the rude instructor mentioned above that the students should go into the trees if they needed the toilet!
Commercial groups making money from an area should at least have the courtesy to contact the owners for permission, and live by the rules and requests of that owner.

In reply to scott quinn:

sundial at globalnet

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/viewcrag.aspx?id=360

In reply to johncook:

Well said, spot on.

In reply to Steve Crowe:

ahh was hoping it was another e-mail I've tried again certainly wont be going with-out his permission his request is perfectly reasonable having read some extensive threads on here in the past.

Thanks anyway Steve!

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Haven't you ever urinated at a crag, Chris?

In reply to andyathome:


I was under the impression that at the very least it was the proverbial straw

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Hey Matt, I bet Chris has never jumped out of the car and pissed against someone's garden wall before he gets to the crag. Which is what we're talking about here.
Look up the threads about parking at Malham Cove centre if you need more info.

E

In reply to johncook:

There's good instructors and bad instructors - the couple of times I've run into PyB groups in North Wales they've been exemplary, eg offering to pull their ropes if you so much as walk past the route, even if they've got one or two clients still waiting for a go on that line.

But as far as I can tell, the landowner here doesn't care either way about people leaving top ropes up or abseiling in the wrong place - they're upset that they've allowed people to use the crag for fun but not for profit and that stipulation then isn't being respected.

I'd have thought that an instructor taking a group onto land where they aren't supposed to be was in some way putting their livelihood at risk, though - aren't they risking having some sort of ticket revoked for bad (ie illegal) practice?

In reply to Enty:

Alright Craig, hope you and the family are well.

Fair enough if that's the complaint. I just wonder where all this information is coming from. There seems to have been a dispute between the local residents and some climbers. For all I know, some of the climbers are in the wrong and the local residents are taking reasonable action. But in any dispute, taking the word of just one side might not lead to a balanced view.

BTW, I bet Chris has done plenty he won't admit to on here (like all of us).

In reply to Dave Musgrove:

I met some lads who'd been in an altercation with the farmer on Saturday, they'd tried to walk in through the way marked in the guidebook rather than dropping in from Moughton Nab and ended up having a huge barny with him. For some reason they where of the opinion that the BMC website stated access was okay...........

In reply to Kid Spatula:

Then they hadn't read the BMC advice properly. What it did clearly state was that ownership of the quarry itself was unclear but that the farmer had revoked his earlier permission to use the previously agreed access route past the farm and cottages. The RAD went on to say that climbers accessing the quarry from above via the CRoW Access Land (since 2011) had reported no significant challenge. Only in the last week or so has it become apparent that the Farmer has now acquired full ownership status and is continuing his opposition to climbing. The BMC advice has been changed again to reflect that position.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

I agree there are good and bad. Worst I've seen in recent years were school groups at Almscliffe and Ilkley...out of control kids, rude and (even in one case threatening) instructors and numerous areas of bad practice, some arguably unsafe. John's Yarncliffe example is still annoying though as the local umbrella organisation gave advice following multiple problems at this venue (as per the access notes in the Froggatt guide) and it seems this group are letting them down again.

In reply to Dave Musgrove:

Oh I told them everything you said. Just pointing out that some people can't follow advice.

In reply to johncook:

Well said!