UKC

to work as an au pair in Paris with a male single parent with a two year old child?
I don't think that it is a good idea since CRB checks don't seem to be available in France and there are no real references for the guy.
My daughter is 19 and studying French and Spanish at London University.
The guy speaks no English,obviously speaks French and also some Spanish,so that side is logical.

In reply to veteye:

Yes. Next.

In reply to veteye:

Judging from your profile name, why not let her go - but with a pair of emasculators. That should deflect any unwelcome attention.

You've either brought her up right or you haven't: I subscribe to the Swallows and Amazons school of parenting - if duffers then good riddance / if not duffers then not drown

Martin

In reply to veteye:


I would do what I did when my eldest graduated and went to work up North of a Scotland on a placement.
I drove her up met the people she would be living with, checked out the general area etc, and once happy with that left her to it.

So I would arrange a short visit together with said daughter and prospective employer.
If he is a good parent to his child, he would appreciate the concerns.

I have 3 daughters, I think only one of them would not like that idea, the others would be happy for me to vet the guy.

In reply to veteye:

At 19 she is an adult and you really have no say in the matter other than the obvious removal of support etc. which would likely be detrimental in the long term.

Go with Jim C's suggestion and then reason with her if there are obvious issues with the guy.

In reply to veteye:

Single parents of a 2 year old, in that case I imagine that he won't be much of a risk otherwise I doubt he would have the child. Go along and meet him if need be.

In reply to Jim C:

I had considered this but it would be difficult for me to get the time free to go at the moment.

My concern is not just the single male issue,but also that the child is two years old.Such a child can be hard work and may be more likely to be hard work if he has had several quasi-mothers in succession.Obviously I would want a clearly defined and sufficient free-time schedule for my daughter.

In reply to Removed User:
Obviously she is an adult,but I am nevertheless her father and would not have got involved in the last upsetting incident a couple of months ago otherwise, when she was assaulted by her ex-boyfriend who ended up having a restraining order placed on him.Would you have left her to deal with that on her own?Presumably not.

In reply to veteye:
Everyone's different I guess, can't imagine any parents I've known having any say in the matter once their kids are that age. I know a fair few people (including myself) who'd been without family support for 2-3 years by that age and just got on with it let alone being prevented from doing anything. I also know people I met at uni (mostly female) who even by 2nd/3rd year didn't have any kind of life skills at all because their parents hadn't done the (admittedly difficult) thing of letting them look after themselves.

FWIW I think it would be a shame if she wanted to go and got anything other than encouragement and support, but then everyone's got their own opinions.

In reply to veteye:

I can appreciate your concerns. Have you discussed them with her?
Is this arranged through an agency or through the University? Presumably he is in work so maybe he can get a reference from his employer.

If she has had issues with her ex as you describe she may be vulnerable. On the other hand, getting away and improving her language skills may be the best thing for her.

Talk to her is my advice.

In reply to veteye:

Hey, don't have a go at people just because you fail to give the whole picture to start with!

S

In reply to veteye:

Does she have a support network out there - someone who has a floor she can run to if she needs to, or someone who will be there for her if needed. Worst case scenario stuff. I like the idea that you go over an meet him with her, parents with kids going to uni seem to go and check out their room mates, lug their suitcases so why not?

In reply to Removed User:


Totally agree. But at the same time, at 19 she has little life experience and is not doubt pretty naive and trusting of everyone. I think we sometimes forget how young young adults actually are these days.

I like the idea of taking her to meet this chap and his kid first.

In reply to veteye:

She's 19. Young enough to join the military, drink, have sex, get married etc., etc.,

The bloke obviously has enough money to afford to pay for her so he can't be totally useless or feckless. Its not as though she must go and never contact you again. If he turns out to be creepy she'll notice immediately. She can always vote with her feet when she gets there if she wants to.

In reply to ByEek:


Only if she has been totally nannied for those 19 years. What's this about "letting" a 19 year old do something? She's an adult, she has an offer of probably a superb experience in France. If it really is utterly terrible she gets on a train/plane/boat and is back home in a few hours.

In reply to veteye:

If you wanted a bit of reassurance I'm sure there are any number of private investigator type agencies that would do you a background check on the guy for a fee. I did a search on google that came up with loads of hits.

Personally I'd engineer some way to meet the guy and even then would be pretty slow to let my daughter sign up to this type of arrangement.

In reply to MG:

But it isn't about just letting her get on with it. It is about the OP finding a way to let go, something I imagine is very hard for every loving parent. Surely dropping her off isn't such a bad thing?

I don't know if you have see The Secret Lives of Students on Channel 4. I had forgotten just how naive I was when I left home at 18 which probably explains why I was mugged in my first term of uni. I genuinely thought the group of lads who surrounded me were after cigarettes. But I guess it was ok no? I was legally an adult after all!

In reply to veteye:

Were there not any interviews of any kind. To be honest I would be retecent about leting a random 19 year old look after my 2 year old so it can work both ways. Surely the best option for all parties is to meet up before anything is formalised and get some form od introduction.

In reply to Dave Perry:
If he turns out to be creepy she'll notice immediately. She can always vote with her feet when she gets there if she wants to.

My experience of young women in difficult situations is that they dont always notice and that they are often persuaded to stay or too frightened to leave.

In reply to MG:

Your point about being able to return home is valid, but there is always the risk of harm to single people who are isolated. The age thing is a bit irrelevent - 17 or 57 you're still inexperienced in some aspects of life, we don't turn 18 and suddenly know everything (though an 18 year old might think they do), so we're always learning. Should the girl go, I think she probably should, the same way if a 19 year old came to me asked should they go climbing, there's risk but we learn to manage or avoid the risk, thats called gaining experience. For the father: make sure you have regular contact and try and assess how things are going - if it's turning to ratshit - make the time to go to Paris and intervene if thats whats required. Dont be surprised if they get romantic - thats life it happens.

In reply to veteye:


If you will forgive me being so direct, this is important. Make time for your daughter.

In reply to veteye:

Got to grow up on their own at some point. Does she act like an adult or a 14 year old desperate for attention? Me and a lot of my friends, male and female have all packed bags and worked in places around the world. Only one had an issue and she was sensible enough to make a judgment call and not risk it.
She may have been wrong but went with her gut. Sensible I'd say

In reply to veteye:

Of course she's an adult and of course she's probably completely capable of making adult decisions about her career however I think this situation would give me pause for thought if I were a parent. At 19, she may well be emotionally inexperienced and if this guy does turn out to be a wrong 'un, she may not recognise the signs.

Could your daughter set up a Skype call with him/his kids and you sit in on it?

In reply to cander:


Do you not think that by the age of 57 you might have gained enough experience to deal better with unknown situations?

By now I've realised that I can say "no" to anything, I don't have to go along with the flow and I now don't give a shit what people will think of me for telling the no. I learned to stand on my own principles and to take responsibility for my own actions. I wouldn't be so easily influenced or cagouled (sp?) into doing something I was happy about.

that what age or more to the point wisdom give you, so age can have a massive influence and is far from irrelevant!!

In reply to ByEek:
which probably explains why I was mugged in my first term of uni. I genuinely thought the group of lads who surrounded me were after cigarettes. But I guess it was ok no? I was legally an adult after all!

Well yes - you survived and probably learnt a bit about life in the process. Would you have preferred your parents to have shepherded you around at uni to avoid such possibilities?

In reply to krikoman:

Nope - at 54 I'm learning all the time - I'm good at lots of things, but interestingly I get shocks, I've never faced a seriously dangerous person with evil intent towards me, Mrs C has and is very good at dealing with it but I suspect I wouldn't be. Assuming that age bestows complete wisdom is as foolish as the 18 year old thinking they know it all ... and we see alot of that on here.

In reply to veteye:

Have you seen 'Taken'? This will only end well if you are Liam Neeson.

In reply to veteye:

It's much clearer why you're concerned now, and feel protective. 'Most of the time' bad things like this don't happen to people.

In reply to veteye:

I've had to run away from people in the past, and had some narrow scrapes as a teenager, I think for a while my dad was very protective (he no doubt still feels that), but it seems one has to allow for a certain degree of risk and chance.

In reply to cander:


Then I pity you.

I didn't say that age bestows complete wisdom.

I said that age bestows wisdom that you can use for situations that you've not come across before.

But not everyone can adapt previous experiences to help deal with present difficulties.

In reply to krikoman:

At least try and be nice .... Point proved I think.

In reply to marsbar:

I agree with that, it may be difficult but not impossible.
When I was faced with my daughters in similar situation(,and the pain in the neck of travelling hunderds of miles) I inevitably thought about the likes of Fred West, and I just went and done it.

It also helps you a lot to not have to imagine her suroundings and the personalities. It puts you at ease as a parent, as a youngster's perception of risk is different from a world weary adult, and parent, you develop a nose for creeps and con men.
( Or is it just that I work in Procurement )

In reply to JoshOvki:

That is a fair point IF you have trust in the Social Services in the country concerned to be doing the due dilligence proper checks etc follow ups .

Over here they are , as we have found out on the news, understaffed overworked and doing their best in difficult circumstances. I would not put too much store in a process that I don't know

In reply to cander:


I just don't like being miss quoted, either that or it's no wonder you have trouble using past experiences.


Peace.

M

In reply to Jim C:
No doubt even if they are over worked they would still have done a basic police check. Covers the CRB check of it all. Not everyone out there is a badie waiting to hurt the people close to you. There is also a much higher chance of her getting into trouble day to day than at some-ones house who she is working for, whos address is available and has a lot to lose.

Better to have parents that will pick up the pieces than hold you back.

In reply to JoshOvki:

Why on earth would anyone do a police check on a parent? You dont need a licence to breed here or in France.

In reply to graeme jackson:


Good one.Yet what did Neeson ever do on grit?

In answer to everyone else:-
It is interesting that there are people who see the situation as no real concern, and others who can see my queries about the circumstances.
There are no other friends or relations in 200 miles of Paris,let alone Paris itself to act as a bolt hole in a crisis,and no-one to discuss problems with should they arise.Yes Skype and the internet will help.
The other problem is(I reiterate)the child himself who could be a real problem.Who has not had problems with a person of this age?Then add the mix of people who may well have cared for him.So sufficient time off has to be part of the deal.
The sad thing is that another position just in France,but only a short step from Geneva fell through.That would have been much more of interest for me( )
I just see it that she could get a position with a couple with children where more balance would be more likely.
To those who say make time for your daughter.I say to you, you do not know how much time I have spent for her with her previous problem.Getting time off is difficult.(For instance I am going to be working from this Friday morning through to Tuesday morning and there is no-one to replace me in that slot.) I have said to her prior to reading all the recent replies that I may go over there with her,but it may have to be setting off late on Wednesday night and returning on Thursday night.That is going to be difficult to organise as I do not have the time to spend on the planning-getting car insurance and road cover.(Today I got my lunch at 4.30pm and I arrived home at 8.15pm)
Part of me says let my daughter's mother go on the road trip,but I do not think that it would be that successful in ascertaining the worth and safety of the job.
As regards my daughter herself,she is independent in that she has lived 50% at each parent's home for twelve years plus and much of that time after the age of (I seem to remember)14 was being on her own.(She likes being on her own).She cooks,she cleans,has a good ability with computer matters and the internet(sub net mask and all that stuff).She is much more adult than most of her compatriots at university in her year and was looked up to by many of them in her first year.Yet at the end of all that an older stronger man in his own home holds all the trump cards in his native land.
Unfortunately my passport runs out on the 14th of August and next Thursday I was hoping to get a fast track passport appointment,but now that may be the day that I am in France...
Also daughter's I-phone was stolen on a bus in Spain when she was teaching young Spaniards to talk English.At the time her 'phone was in her pocket and she was asleep.Sadly she had chosen very poor insurance and the theft was not covered..That was a couple of weeks ago.
So many interlinking matters to resolve.

Anyway,thank you all for your input.

Rob

In reply to veteye:

You haven't said what your daughter's view is on all this.

In reply to craigloon:

She wants to go as she thinks that being forced to speak in either French or Spanish and without any English will help her a good deal,and I cannot disagree with her.I have not said that she cannot go,but she seeks my approval.My reply to that is that having my approval will not change the situation.If there is a bad deal there it will still be a bad set up.

I have obviously made her think in a less naïve way,but is that enough?

In reply to veteye:

If her primary reason is to help her languages, then there must be better options than looking after a two year old. She will be largely dependant on whether this man give her worthwhile conversation practice.

Whereas in a position in a two parent family with children old enough to speak, she could be speaking french all day and loving it.

In reply to veteye:

A DBS check (as they are now called) is not available for someone working with a 19 year old in the UK either, as she is an adult. Other than a "basic" check (unspent convictions only) which can be done via Disclosure Scotland.

Neil

In reply to Dan Arkle:

Good point.
Her argument is that no English will be spoken and both French and Spanish will be.In some degree it depends upon how much time she is able to spend out on the streets and in the parks,museums etc with her charge,as well as how much time she is able to do the same without him.

In reply to Neil Williams:

So how come my daughter herself had a CRB check when she went to work as an assistant in the past,in a care home?That is the same adult working with adult situation in some ways.

In reply to veteye:

That is a crb check on your daughter to make sure she is fit to work with vulnerable adults. The bloke she will be staying with won't be working with her, but employing her, and your daughter isn't a vulnerable adult.

She can always just leave and come home if there are any problems. It isn't exactly that far away! Just let her get on with her own life and stop being so controlling....

In reply to veteye:

It's odd for an au pair to be looking after such a young child. I'd be more worried about that. Personally i would not let an unqualified teenager look after my 2 year old.

As other people have said pay them a visit and check it out yourself.

In reply to veteye:


You've mentioned this one a couple of times. Aside from the rest of the discussion, this is the one that catches my eye. What's the issue here? What is it that you are imagining? Maybe the child's mother was caring for it until a very recent separation. Maybe it's had one au pair per month for 24 months.




It sounds like you'd have been less concerned about that one because it suited you better due to location. Smiley emoticon notwithstanding. I bet you'd have made time to check that one out regularly eh.

In reply to veteye:
A care home cares for what are legally defined as "vulnerable adults" which makes a check mandatory. While she might be vulnerable in your view as a 19 year old, she is not in a legal sense. So her host does not need to be checked (and indeed apart from the Disclosure Scotland basic check[1] it wouldn't even be legal to check, were it in the UK).

Apologies if you meant you were confused as to why *she* wasn't being checked for looking after children in France - I have no idea as I don't know French law on the subject, I only know UK law as I'm involved in Scouting.

[1] The DBS in England doesn't offer this, but English people can have one done via Disclosure Scotland if they like. It's just a list of unspent criminal convictions and unlike an Enhanced check doesn't contain extra things like spent convictions and police intelligence, nor checks on lists of people barred from working with children etc.

Neil

In reply to tlm:

Yes but she cannot just walk out if she is being attacked.I have seen women who have lived in fear from former employers who have attacked them.I have a girl friend who was herself raped many years ago.


If you read what I have put,I have not stopped her going.
If you read what other people have replied there are those who also have concerns about her position if she goes.It may be fine,but it may not.Nevertheless I have not stopped her going.

In reply to veteye:
I think I'd have concerns as well, though hopefully I would, as it seems you are, impress those concerns on her (and possibly do some research myself) so she can make a more informed decision.

I think I agree I'd rather she was with a larger family. Or another kind of opportunity, my sister worked as an au-pair at a private school in Switzerland - lots of people around there. She loved it, and because she wasn't alone there there was a good social life as well.

Neil

In reply to Blue Straggler:


I have seen children who have had several people look after them and they are worse behaved in my opinion,in general and harder work.This child has had more than one au pair looking after him.


That was obviously me having a bit of fun,but actually the position was not that far organised when the Canadian au pair who was due to start in mid-September was refused entry with something to do with her passport and the parents decided to try to find someone who could work for the whole year.
I actually thought that the position would have been a good one as the mother was a language teacher in France and I thought that my daughter might be able to get some further leads in Geneva.
The children involved(there were two) were early teenagers and probably a little bit more easily involved with, along with as Dan Arkle said, a much better conversational ability.
At least with a couple you can appeal and rationalise with the other partner if one of the pair does something objectionable.(Although it does not entirely rule out the Mr and Mrs Fred West possibility as mooted on another reply above)

In reply to Neil Williams:

A school would be great,but I suspect at a different time of year.
Having said that I would not want my daughter to end up as a teacher as they seem to have a poor lot in many schools,but that is for another thread...

In reply to veteye:

No, she wasn't a teacher, she was an au-pair. I think her role involved looking after the teachers' young kids (the ones who were too young to be looked after as part of the general boarding school thing).

Neil

In reply to veteye:

Bit paranoid not letting her go. Just because he's a single male parent doesn't make his some sex pest. Probably just some bloke struggling to maintain his job and look after his child.

However being Parisian does kind of mean he will be a bit of a letch.

In reply to veteye:

let her go!!!! my girlfriend was an au pair in france when she was 15 and she can now speak fluent french (she's now 27) at the end of the day you can speak to your daughter everyday, if the guy turns out to be a sex pest then she can just leave. she's 19 let her make her own mistakes but be there to support her when she needs it. hope she enjoys it!

In reply to Craigyboy13:


One of my concerns there is my passport running out and the current trouble with issuing passports.

In reply to myth:

Where's the crossover between sex pest and "a bit of a letch"?

In reply to JoshOvki:

Worth checking what the French have to do, I suppose, and there could be a bit of comfort there as you say .

My wife childminds and she is visited/checked fairly regularly, and of course I have to assume they will have done CRB checks on me too ( but I don't know that for sure)
I have met with the people doing the checks , but I was not specifically requested to attend, I just happened to be there.

In reply to Jim C:
You would know if you had been CRB checked, as you would have had to show ID and sign a form (either paper or electronic), and you receive a copy of the check (indeed, the only copy now, you have to provide it to the checker). It cannot be done without your consent.

Neil

In reply to veteye:

I went to work as an au pair in France the summer before I went to uni (17yrs of age, isolated rural Loire valley, 3 kids under 4, staying with grandmere for the summer) which was back in the 80s, so in a different world than today. Never the less I might be able to offer a useful perspective. I understand your concerns about the child. Having sole responsibility for a two year old is hard work. You don't say whether the father works full time or what his circumstances are (eg recently widowed/separated) but if he does work full time, she is likely to be quite isolated during the day unless she meets other young people in similar positions. I suffered from lonliness at times and missed adult interaction until the rest of the family decended for a month from Paris. She may not get out and about that often so the opportunity to improve her French might be limited and the father may not be that interested in socialising with her in the evening. Quite the opposite, he might see her a cheap baby sitter while he lives it up. Your daughter's language skills will develop more through conversing with adults rather than a two year old so if the postion doesn't offer that opportinity it might not be worth it. However she will gain other life-skills, might make new friends, gain confidence etc.

I do think you should set up an interview with the father, telephone is ok. Your daughter needs to establish what is expected of the position and how much free time she wil be afforded both during the day and in evenings. To be honest, if he was well off he could employ a nanny/use child care so in seeking an au pair, it might be because he is looking for a cheaper option. Your daughter might find she is expected to be cook, cleaner and bottle washer as well as look after a toddler 24/7. Ultimately, your daughter needs to decide for herself what she wants from her experience in France and whether looking after a two year old will deliver it. I wouldn't worry about the distance from home and the fact that you don't have family/friends in the country. There are trains, buses and planes. It's easy to get back from France in a day (I travelled by bus and hovercraft) and you and she can investigate the options before she goes. As long as she has some spare cash/cridit card and mobile phone she will be fine. If you are both open minded about it, this might turn out to be the best thing she's ever done.

In reply to veteye:


A sex pest gets put in prison a letch doesn't

In reply to maisie:

>why not let her go

She's 19 FFS!