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was wondering if anyone can tell me in simple terms why gaza is getting destroyed ? what is the fighting about ,who is fighting who...wot side wants what out of winning .just don't understand whats going on over there.its all very sad and I don't know what the fighting is about and I think out of respect I need to know why innocent people are getting killed and injured...anyone?
In reply to colina:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28252155
Won't satisfy many here who doubt the beeb's impartiality, but not a bad place to start
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28252155
Won't satisfy many here who doubt the beeb's impartiality, but not a bad place to start
In reply to colina:
This gives a fairly concise synopsis:- http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Israel#Arab-Israeli_conflicts
But latterly seems like a tool of oppression on the palastinian people.
This gives a fairly concise synopsis:- http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Israel#Arab-Israeli_conflicts
But latterly seems like a tool of oppression on the palastinian people.
In reply to colina:
try this http://gardenoffreedom.org/2014/03/25/a-zionist-solution-to-the-kurdish-pro...
And this from the Israeli soldier, this is very good.
youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ&
try this http://gardenoffreedom.org/2014/03/25/a-zionist-solution-to-the-kurdish-pro...
And this from the Israeli soldier, this is very good.
youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ&
In reply to colina:
From Jon Snow's Twitter feed.
http://blogs.afp.com/correspondent/?post/Heartbreak%3A-Reporting-on-Gaza%E2...
From Jon Snow's Twitter feed.
http://blogs.afp.com/correspondent/?post/Heartbreak%3A-Reporting-on-Gaza%E2...
In reply to colina:
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel
This is a different view point.. Not sure about it or who he is.
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel
This is a different view point.. Not sure about it or who he is.
In reply to IainRUK:
> http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel
It's a bit of a one sided view too and only deals with the recent past. Ther e is no mention of land grabbing or what was agreed in 1947.
this is one of the best I've seen
youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ&
posted above.
> This is a different view point.. Not sure about it or who he is.
It's a bit of a one sided view too and only deals with the recent past. Ther e is no mention of land grabbing or what was agreed in 1947.
this is one of the best I've seen
youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ&
posted above.
You must have seen this by now
youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY&
(apologies if posted already, can't view at work)
youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY&
(apologies if posted already, can't view at work)
In reply to krikoman:
I know, I like how it just brings in Hamas's role though, at the moment it's a pretty grim future and Israel (and the e Jews there) aren't going to go away so nothing will change unless there stance changes.. But Israel need to give back land and certainly no more grabs and both seem very unlikely.. But there's only going to be one winner unless Hamas change their stance. The difference in weaponry and force is insurmountable.
I know, I like how it just brings in Hamas's role though, at the moment it's a pretty grim future and Israel (and the e Jews there) aren't going to go away so nothing will change unless there stance changes.. But Israel need to give back land and certainly no more grabs and both seem very unlikely.. But there's only going to be one winner unless Hamas change their stance. The difference in weaponry and force is insurmountable.
In reply to Nick Harvey:
That vox.com article is criminal, citing unfounded allegations that Hamas target civilians and that Hamas is responsible for the abduction of the three missing teens. There is no evidence to support either of these claims. They amount to nothing more than pro-Israeli propaganda and are incredibly dangerous when disguised by an article that appears, at the outset, to be impartial.
That vox.com article is criminal, citing unfounded allegations that Hamas target civilians and that Hamas is responsible for the abduction of the three missing teens. There is no evidence to support either of these claims. They amount to nothing more than pro-Israeli propaganda and are incredibly dangerous when disguised by an article that appears, at the outset, to be impartial.
In reply to colina:
This is a good but lengthy appraisal of why Palestine might be pissed off.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/is-gideon-levy-the-most...
This is a good but lengthy appraisal of why Palestine might be pissed off.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/is-gideon-levy-the-most...
In reply to colina:
I need to know why innocent people are getting killed and injured...anyone?
Its called what is a mythical entity GOD, and the different variety of foolish beliefs some people have what it wants. No GOD and all the human race would have to deal with is greed and oil and territory, honest at least. Get rid of religion and half at least of the worlds wars would be ended.
I need to know why innocent people are getting killed and injured...anyone?
Its called what is a mythical entity GOD, and the different variety of foolish beliefs some people have what it wants. No GOD and all the human race would have to deal with is greed and oil and territory, honest at least. Get rid of religion and half at least of the worlds wars would be ended.
In reply to colina: following the money, it's difficult to argue against this..
youtube.com/watch?v=M0ot2JOP_QA&
youtube.com/watch?v=M0ot2JOP_QA&
In reply to IainRUK:
>unless Hamas change their stance
did you see the 10 year truce that was rejected?
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=713579
pretty reasonable to me..
>unless Hamas change their stance
did you see the 10 year truce that was rejected?
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=713579
pretty reasonable to me..
In reply to icnoble:
No it's not Iain, if they could all live together without the hatred caused by religion, Israel need never have been created.
> The Israel Palestine conflict is about territory, not religion
No it's not Iain, if they could all live together without the hatred caused by religion, Israel need never have been created.
In reply to colina:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3by9FoEFB8&feature=youtube_gdata_playe...
This is a scarily accurate synopsis of historical events, it also shows manipulation of media.
"Palestine suicide homes ramming themselves into Israeli bulldozers"
It is a must watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3by9FoEFB8&feature=youtube_gdata_playe...
This is a scarily accurate synopsis of historical events, it also shows manipulation of media.
"Palestine suicide homes ramming themselves into Israeli bulldozers"
It is a must watch.
In reply to Alex Slipchuk:
>This is a scarily accurate synopsis of historical events, it also shows manipulation of media.
Not really a must watch as it's a bit infantile.
Try this for a more adult approach from someone who knows what he's talking about.
This is a good but lengthy appraisal of why Palestine might be pissed off.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/is-gideon-levy-the-most...
Better still watch this.
youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ&
>This is a scarily accurate synopsis of historical events, it also shows manipulation of media.
> "Palestine suicide homes ramming themselves into Israeli bulldozers"
> It is a must watch.
Not really a must watch as it's a bit infantile.
Try this for a more adult approach from someone who knows what he's talking about.
This is a good but lengthy appraisal of why Palestine might be pissed off.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/is-gideon-levy-the-most...
Better still watch this.
youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ&
In reply to krikoman:
It tackles western UK/USA media bias in a method that is easy to understand by those who are easily influenced by the same media.
It's message is effective in 10 minutes, that makes it relevant. Not all people are as media savy as others.
Probably best to keep criticism constructive rather than elitist.
There's nothing juvenile about it.
Sorry you didn't like it, but there's a reason national news programs seem to cinflict with tv dross
It tackles western UK/USA media bias in a method that is easy to understand by those who are easily influenced by the same media.
It's message is effective in 10 minutes, that makes it relevant. Not all people are as media savy as others.
Probably best to keep criticism constructive rather than elitist.
There's nothing juvenile about it.
Sorry you didn't like it, but there's a reason national news programs seem to cinflict with tv dross
In reply to Alex Slipchuk:
Sorry I just found it annoying and patronising.
I don't think I was being elitist. It just felt a bit Sesame St. and I never liked that either.
> It tackles western UK/USA media bias in a method that is easy to understand by those who are easily influenced by the same media.
Sorry I just found it annoying and patronising.
I don't think I was being elitist. It just felt a bit Sesame St. and I never liked that either.
In reply to colina:
Some good responses on some of these articles.
"Hamas's singular reason for existence is to destroy Israel. That aim has never changed. Just like the movie, Independence Day, Hamas (the aliens who don't accept the existence of humans), doesn't accept Israel. What did the world do to the aliens? They eradicated them. The same must be done to Hamas."
Oh this was to the 10 year truce.
Some good responses on some of these articles.
"Hamas's singular reason for existence is to destroy Israel. That aim has never changed. Just like the movie, Independence Day, Hamas (the aliens who don't accept the existence of humans), doesn't accept Israel. What did the world do to the aliens? They eradicated them. The same must be done to Hamas."
Oh this was to the 10 year truce.
In reply to Al Evans:
I think to just label it a war about religion is too simplistic. It is more about race and expansionism Interestingly, quite a few ultra-orthodox jews have appeared in the media criticising the Zionist stance. Many of those cheerleading for the Israelis are secular Jews; on the palestinian side the Palestinian Christians are equally suffering under Israeli occupation.
Context is important if there is ever to be any resolution to this conflict.
I think to just label it a war about religion is too simplistic. It is more about race and expansionism Interestingly, quite a few ultra-orthodox jews have appeared in the media criticising the Zionist stance. Many of those cheerleading for the Israelis are secular Jews; on the palestinian side the Palestinian Christians are equally suffering under Israeli occupation.
Context is important if there is ever to be any resolution to this conflict.
In reply to FreshSlate:
And do you think that what Israel are doing will help to reduce the threat or make Hamas change their mind? Or perhaps they are perpetuating the hatred and creating a new generation of freedom fighters and Israeli haters.
Like someone said earlier,"when you have nothing you have nothing to lose".
Like apartheid in South Africa the world should condemn both sides but stop feeding the war. The difference with Israel is that the US could make them do something about it now. Just stop giving them $8 million per day.
youtube.com/watch?v=Gcngu9wkCzE&
> Some good responses on some of these articles.
> "Hamas's singular reason for existence is to destroy Israel. That aim has never changed. Just like the movie, Independence Day, Hamas (the aliens who don't accept the existence of humans), doesn't accept Israel. What did the world do to the aliens? They eradicated them. The same must be done to Hamas."
And do you think that what Israel are doing will help to reduce the threat or make Hamas change their mind? Or perhaps they are perpetuating the hatred and creating a new generation of freedom fighters and Israeli haters.
Like someone said earlier,"when you have nothing you have nothing to lose".
Like apartheid in South Africa the world should condemn both sides but stop feeding the war. The difference with Israel is that the US could make them do something about it now. Just stop giving them $8 million per day.
youtube.com/watch?v=Gcngu9wkCzE&
In reply to FreshSlate:
Actually, the aliens wanted to move in and exploit earths resources. It wasn't that they didn't accept the existence of humans, it was that humans were just an inconvenience that needed removing.Whovever posted that maybe needed to consider their analogy, it might be closer than they intended
> (In reply to colina)
>
> Some good responses on some of these articles.
>
> "Hamas's singular reason for existence is to destroy Israel. That aim has never changed. Just like the movie, Independence Day, Hamas (the aliens who don't accept the existence of humans), doesn't accept Israel. What did the world do to the aliens? They eradicated them. The same must be done to Hamas."
>
>
> Some good responses on some of these articles.
>
> "Hamas's singular reason for existence is to destroy Israel. That aim has never changed. Just like the movie, Independence Day, Hamas (the aliens who don't accept the existence of humans), doesn't accept Israel. What did the world do to the aliens? They eradicated them. The same must be done to Hamas."
>
Actually, the aliens wanted to move in and exploit earths resources. It wasn't that they didn't accept the existence of humans, it was that humans were just an inconvenience that needed removing.Whovever posted that maybe needed to consider their analogy, it might be closer than they intended
In reply to krikoman:
No worries, someone showed it to me, I just thought anything that gets the lunacy of the situation across to anyone must have value. If you watch it all the way through there is a certain prominent survivor of the Holocaust who adds validity to the cause. The message becomes stronger because of it.
It certainly ridicules the USA's attempts to act as peace maker.
It clearly shows the media manipulation.
I think the message of who is in the wrong is obvious.
Peace
No worries, someone showed it to me, I just thought anything that gets the lunacy of the situation across to anyone must have value. If you watch it all the way through there is a certain prominent survivor of the Holocaust who adds validity to the cause. The message becomes stronger because of it.
It certainly ridicules the USA's attempts to act as peace maker.
It clearly shows the media manipulation.
I think the message of who is in the wrong is obvious.
Peace
In reply to colina:
Cynical bastards, a seven hour humanitarian window before the massacre continues
Cynical bastards, a seven hour humanitarian window before the massacre continues
In reply to woolsack:
It's a start though, hopefully seven hours will stretch to a day and then that might stretch to a week.
what's really needed is for the US and the UK to actually do something, rather than supporting / letting this conflict continue.
Hopefully the BDS movement might help take the power away from the governments, though it's a bit confusing at the moment.
> Cynical bastards, a seven hour humanitarian window before the massacre continues
It's a start though, hopefully seven hours will stretch to a day and then that might stretch to a week.
what's really needed is for the US and the UK to actually do something, rather than supporting / letting this conflict continue.
Hopefully the BDS movement might help take the power away from the governments, though it's a bit confusing at the moment.
In reply to colina:
Lest we forget ...errm we've forgotten...
Are you confused by what is going on in the Middle East?
Let me explain.
We support the Iraqi government in the fight against ISIS.
We don’t like ISIS, but ISIS is supported by Saudi Arabia who we do like.
We don’t like Assad in Syria. We support the fight against him, but ISIS is also fighting against him.
We don’t like Iran, but Iran supports the Iraqi government in its fight against ISIS.
So some of our friends support our enemies, some enemies are now our friends, and some of our enemies are fighting against our other enemies, who we want to lose,
but we don’t want our enemies who are fighting our enemies to win.
If the people we want to defeat are defeated, they could be replaced by people we like even less.
And all this was started by us invading a country to drive out terrorists
who were not actually there until we went in to drive them out.
It's quite simple, really.
Do you understand now?
Lest we forget ...errm we've forgotten...
Are you confused by what is going on in the Middle East?
Let me explain.
We support the Iraqi government in the fight against ISIS.
We don’t like ISIS, but ISIS is supported by Saudi Arabia who we do like.
We don’t like Assad in Syria. We support the fight against him, but ISIS is also fighting against him.
We don’t like Iran, but Iran supports the Iraqi government in its fight against ISIS.
So some of our friends support our enemies, some enemies are now our friends, and some of our enemies are fighting against our other enemies, who we want to lose,
but we don’t want our enemies who are fighting our enemies to win.
If the people we want to defeat are defeated, they could be replaced by people we like even less.
And all this was started by us invading a country to drive out terrorists
who were not actually there until we went in to drive them out.
It's quite simple, really.
Do you understand now?
In reply to Ridge:
I've always been a fully signed up, card-carrying member of the People's Front of Judea
> (In reply to Tony the Blade)
>
> Sums it up perfectly. But don't forget you need to pick a side...
>
> Sums it up perfectly. But don't forget you need to pick a side...
I've always been a fully signed up, card-carrying member of the People's Front of Judea
In reply to Ridge:
Does sum up Israel though does it?
1945 war ends.
1947 English and a Frenchman think they know best and divide up a country in the most ludicrous way possible.
July 1947 Irgun Jews string two policemen for lamp-posts.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
2014 Israel kills thousands of innocent men, women and children.
The world sit on it's arse and watches.
People advise not to get involved.
> (In reply to Tony the Blade)
>
> Sums it up perfectly. But don't forget you need to pick a side...
>
> Sums it up perfectly. But don't forget you need to pick a side...
Does sum up Israel though does it?
1945 war ends.
1947 English and a Frenchman think they know best and divide up a country in the most ludicrous way possible.
July 1947 Irgun Jews string two policemen for lamp-posts.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
2014 Israel kills thousands of innocent men, women and children.
The world sit on it's arse and watches.
People advise not to get involved.
In reply to colina:
what's going on?
occupation 101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wms0b4zwvuQ#t=717
what's going on?
occupation 101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wms0b4zwvuQ#t=717
Post edited at 20:59
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