UKC

"A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist" - Sir Humphrey Appleby.
"Cynic: An idealist whose rose-colored glasses have been removed, snapped in two and stomped into the ground, immediately improving his vision" - Rick Bayan

Looking at this evidence, it seems they were correct:

http://www.ted.com/talks/tali_sharot_the_optimism_bias

Seems compelling to me: we label people who see the world realistically as "mildly depressed" - or perhaps cynical - whereas those who have a bit of a reality filter and see things as better than they really are "normal" and "healthy". That's fair enough, the optimism bias does us good and leads to better outcomes so it is indeed "healthy". But don't fool yourself, it's an illusion and it has its risks too...

So who's happy to admit they're deluded?

In reply to Jon Stewart:

No point being deluded

Life is short, it can be cruel so just enjoy the good times and get on with it

In reply to woollardjt:



This is exactly why I feel a little delusion is sometimes no bad thing.

In reply to nw:


Yes, and the evidence in the clip supports that - we evolved the optimism bias for a reason. I'm just not keen on the criticism one receives for not sharing in the useful delusion!

In reply to Jon Stewart:


The trouble with an illusion is that once the illusion's broken it's broken, like discovering the secret behind a magic trick, once you know it, it doesn't work anymore. You can't really force optimism bias just because you know things will be better that way, it's like saying I'll give you a million pounds if you believe 2+2=5. You can try to believe it, you can pretend to believe it...but you wont actually believe it and you wont collect the million! Once the rose tinted glasses have been smashed it's over, no matter how much good they'd have done you.

Still, it's not like the reality's totally awful, it's just not going to be as good as it could be if you still had the rosey specs.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Being a cynic doesn't mean you can't have fun.

In reply to Sharp:


On the contrary. The optimism bias is hardwired in about 80% of people and just like an optical illusion, knowing it isn't real makes no difference.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Ok you can view the world through rose tinted specs and be happy or you can accept the world for what it is and still be amazed by it.

I'm a realist, life is full of terrible experiences but a sunrise or sunset in the mountains still makes me stop and wonder at the beauty of it, you can never forget the shit that happens but those great moments also stay with you

Had my rose tinted specs smashed years ago, haven't missed them since

Each to their own plus I enjoy mocking the deluded

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I'm possibly 'knowingly deluded', I dunno really.

I don't think world peace will happen due to human nature (though I hope it might), and can see how self interested people can be, but somehow I'm still optimistic. I've grown up with optimistic parents, so that probably counts for a lot.

I know I called you a cynic but I ment no offence. Some of my favourite people in real life are cynical. ()

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I'm pretty sure you're right and I'm wrong but I can't quite get my head around how someone can believe something which they have now discovered to be false, maybe optimism bias is just going "la, la, la" and ignoring the facts. I see an optical illusion, but I don't believe it because I can scientifically examine the illusion and conclude that, for e.g., the straw isn't actually bent. If you believe life will be good to you for no reason that's an illusion, if you review the evidence and take a more balanced view then you're forming a reasoned belief and no longer the subject of your optimism bias.

So I know that by smoking I'll increase my risk of cancer and to me that's all there is too it. The way I thought it worked was that someone suffering from optimism bias would think the same but with the addition that out of all the smokers, they'd think that they're in the segment that wont get cancer without any evidence to support that. I thought that meant that they still have their rose tinted glasses on and they're just refusing to accept the nature of probability. i.e. their illusion hasn't been shattered.

In reply to Sharp:


It's called indoctrination, and it's dangerous. I always wondered how people could continue to cling to religious beliefs in the face of science. Then I realised I had a dangerously indoctrinated belief system about myself which I can't easily shake off. Now I have a little more sympathy with religious people.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

The only person that can change the world is yourself.

You'll never change anything unless you believe in yourself.

In reply to DancingOnRock:

I do believe in myself. I believe I'm a human being, I live in Sheffield and I'm 5 foot 10.

How's that going to change the world?

In reply to Jon Stewart:




Not true, people can see the world "realistically", not give a flying f*ck about it, and get on with enjoying themselves.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Or you can be happy and simply accept reality for what it is. Indifferent

In reply to stroppygob:


Yes, fair point. The evidence presented in the clip is that people who are severely depressed see the world as worse than it really is, people who are mildly depressed see it as it is and healthy people show the optimism bias.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:


It isn't necessarily about being happy or not, it's about whether the quotation "A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist" is actually supported by evidence as in the link.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Hmm I think that cynicism can be just as much a delusion as optimism. Overt optimism can lead to unrealistic expectations but an overly pessimistic view can lead to opportunities not taken

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Nice to agree again Jon.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I don't know that I think very much about how things *are*; what I tend to focus on is how they *could be*. And how I can improve them in that direction.

I suppose that makes me an ultra-optimist. But not necessarily deluded

In reply to Tim Chappell:


Yes, I've picked that up!