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We recently spent a holiday in a fairly up-market hotel with some friends of ours.
Now we've known these people for a few years and I've never really been aware of their behaviour other than to say that it was, for want of a better description, normal. OK I know "normal" is difficult to quantify.
However while we were away with them I couldn't help noticing that hubby seems to have become very err, shall I say, obsequious and ingratiating. The hotel we stayed at had a doorman who's job was obviously to welcome arriving guest by opening their car doors and supervising other staff to unload luggage and take it to reception and then to guests' rooms. I got the distinct impression that the said hubby felt uneasy about this.
Later on, in the dining room and after the completion of each course, I noticed that he almost made a display of gathering the empty plates on our table to pass them to the approaching waiter. I got the impression that the staff felt uneasy about these gestures almost to the point of wanting to say "that's my bloody job"!
Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing?
Now we've known these people for a few years and I've never really been aware of their behaviour other than to say that it was, for want of a better description, normal. OK I know "normal" is difficult to quantify.
However while we were away with them I couldn't help noticing that hubby seems to have become very err, shall I say, obsequious and ingratiating. The hotel we stayed at had a doorman who's job was obviously to welcome arriving guest by opening their car doors and supervising other staff to unload luggage and take it to reception and then to guests' rooms. I got the distinct impression that the said hubby felt uneasy about this.
Later on, in the dining room and after the completion of each course, I noticed that he almost made a display of gathering the empty plates on our table to pass them to the approaching waiter. I got the impression that the staff felt uneasy about these gestures almost to the point of wanting to say "that's my bloody job"!
Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing?
In reply to Indy: Almost seems to me like a form of inverted snobbery: "Look at me, I'm lowering my social standards"
In reply to FesteringSore:
The plates thing is a little not normal.
However I am the same with luggage though. I hate door men taking my luggage and I hate it more when they take it to my room. I hate it even more when they linger for a tip (usually when I'm at the point of arriving at a hotel I never have small demonminations of cash to tip)
The plates thing is a little not normal.
However I am the same with luggage though. I hate door men taking my luggage and I hate it more when they take it to my room. I hate it even more when they linger for a tip (usually when I'm at the point of arriving at a hotel I never have small demonminations of cash to tip)
In reply to FesteringSore:
I do the plate thing, I just think it's nice to help out a bit. It also clears the table so you can get on with the drinking.
Am I weird?
I do the plate thing, I just think it's nice to help out a bit. It also clears the table so you can get on with the drinking.
Am I weird?
In reply to Cobra_Head:
Yes
(I'm afraid that my argument is that the restaurant staff are being paid to do it)
But, to return to my op, the person in question seems to relish making a display of it. In much the same way, when he is a passenger in my car and another vehicle gives way to me he insists on making an exagerated - and I mean exagerated - thumbs up gesture. I find a simple wave suffices.
> (In reply to FesteringSore)
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> Am I weird?
Yes
(I'm afraid that my argument is that the restaurant staff are being paid to do it)
But, to return to my op, the person in question seems to relish making a display of it. In much the same way, when he is a passenger in my car and another vehicle gives way to me he insists on making an exagerated - and I mean exagerated - thumbs up gesture. I find a simple wave suffices.
Post edited at 20:09
In reply to FesteringSore:
I do a similar thing, I just dont like the feeling that there are subordinates to do my bidding, just feels wrong
I do a similar thing, I just dont like the feeling that there are subordinates to do my bidding, just feels wrong
In reply to ow arm:
> (In reply to FesteringSore)
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> I do a similar thing, I just dont like the feeling that there are subordinates to do my bidding, just feels wrong
Surely not a question of being subordinate rather a question of that's what they're there for. >
> I do a similar thing, I just dont like the feeling that there are subordinates to do my bidding, just feels wrong
In reply to FesteringSore:
I like the sound of him! I stack the plates and put the remaining food on the top plate. It's manners?
I like the sound of him! I stack the plates and put the remaining food on the top plate. It's manners?
In reply to Cobra_Head:
I'm right with you on this one.
Firstly it clears the table so you don't end up dipping your elbows into the gravy remains.
Secondly it helps out the staff, saves them making 5 trips to the table and the time it takes to re-arrange forks and wayward spoons onto the pile.
"Lowering social standards"! FFS I don't expect the staff to follow me to the bogs and wipe my arse, maybe I should. Does the Queen do that, gets a footservant to brush off the claggers with a corgi.
Thirdly, it lets staff know you have finished.
Fourthly, who gives a stuff. Really, it's like licking yer knife in public.
I'm right with you on this one.
Firstly it clears the table so you don't end up dipping your elbows into the gravy remains.
Secondly it helps out the staff, saves them making 5 trips to the table and the time it takes to re-arrange forks and wayward spoons onto the pile.
"Lowering social standards"! FFS I don't expect the staff to follow me to the bogs and wipe my arse, maybe I should. Does the Queen do that, gets a footservant to brush off the claggers with a corgi.
Thirdly, it lets staff know you have finished.
Fourthly, who gives a stuff. Really, it's like licking yer knife in public.
In reply to Cobra_Head:
It used to annoy my sister when she waitressed as it prevented her from stacking all the plates efficiently in one hand/bent arm. She preferred to work her way arround arranging plates, cutlery and bits and bobs in a practiced system. No idea how common this is. I only stack or pass plates when it's clear the server would struggle to reach them or where asked.
Now that I agree with....
On the doorman thing, I hate it. I can open a door and cary my own bag, having someone try and do it makes me feel like a feeble OAP. I also have a strong urge to not let other people ever touch my stuff, as one of the steps I take to never be robbed. My only experience of this is in the USA where its tied up with their crappy unpaid job and tipping culture. I put up with it all out of manners, but try and pick cheap motels or lodges where I can just avoid it all. Cheaper, free wifi and no building wide aircon to keep me awake with noise at night...
> I do the plate thing, I just think it's nice to help out a bit.
It used to annoy my sister when she waitressed as it prevented her from stacking all the plates efficiently in one hand/bent arm. She preferred to work her way arround arranging plates, cutlery and bits and bobs in a practiced system. No idea how common this is. I only stack or pass plates when it's clear the server would struggle to reach them or where asked.
> It also clears the table so you can get on with the drinking.
Now that I agree with....
On the doorman thing, I hate it. I can open a door and cary my own bag, having someone try and do it makes me feel like a feeble OAP. I also have a strong urge to not let other people ever touch my stuff, as one of the steps I take to never be robbed. My only experience of this is in the USA where its tied up with their crappy unpaid job and tipping culture. I put up with it all out of manners, but try and pick cheap motels or lodges where I can just avoid it all. Cheaper, free wifi and no building wide aircon to keep me awake with noise at night...
Post edited at 20:31
In reply to sbc_10:
> (In reply to Cobra_Head)
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> Thirdly, it lets staff know you have finished.
Surely most waiters/waitresses would know that from when you put your knife and fork together on the plate In reply to FesteringSore:
It might depend on how it's done?
If the waiters an waitresses appear, and somebody starts to gather the plates together and faff about while they're standing there, I can see why it could feel awkward for people around the table and the people who get paid to gather the plates and things, but if things are passed down the table to them and piled up in helpful ways in the course of people chatting, from what I've seen they appreciate it.
It's not something I'd really thought about until now though, it's just something I've always done.
It might depend on how it's done?
If the waiters an waitresses appear, and somebody starts to gather the plates together and faff about while they're standing there, I can see why it could feel awkward for people around the table and the people who get paid to gather the plates and things, but if things are passed down the table to them and piled up in helpful ways in the course of people chatting, from what I've seen they appreciate it.
It's not something I'd really thought about until now though, it's just something I've always done.
Post edited at 20:43
In reply to FesteringSore:
Have you got a shed at the bottom of your garden?
If so, please can I come and be your slave, I'll survive on the scraps off your plates that I'll collect 5 or 6 times a day.
Tugging my forelock comes as a free extra.
Have you got a shed at the bottom of your garden?
If so, please can I come and be your slave, I'll survive on the scraps off your plates that I'll collect 5 or 6 times a day.
Tugging my forelock comes as a free extra.
In reply to FesteringSore:
True, that's what they're getting paid for...but that doesn't mean we can't help them a little bit, surely?
If I see bar staff come round to clear glasses together from a pub table, I'll maybe nudge the glasses together and put them nearer the side of the table they're approaching from, so they can grab them all on one go.
It's just a gesture. Just a little bit of human kindness.
> Surely not a question of being subordinate rather a question of that's what they're there for.
True, that's what they're getting paid for...but that doesn't mean we can't help them a little bit, surely?
If I see bar staff come round to clear glasses together from a pub table, I'll maybe nudge the glasses together and put them nearer the side of the table they're approaching from, so they can grab them all on one go.
It's just a gesture. Just a little bit of human kindness.
In reply to FesteringSore:
True. I was elasticating the point as much as I could.
As the person said above, retrieving plates from a deep alcove whilst leaning over candles, wine bottles and customers cannot be easy or fun.
Just because waiters/waitresses are paid to do the job allows me to totally ignore their difficulties. Nope,afraid not. Manners still mean a bit to me.
> Surely most waiters/waitresses would know that from when you put your knife and fork together on the plate
True. I was elasticating the point as much as I could.
As the person said above, retrieving plates from a deep alcove whilst leaning over candles, wine bottles and customers cannot be easy or fun.
Just because waiters/waitresses are paid to do the job allows me to totally ignore their difficulties. Nope,afraid not. Manners still mean a bit to me.
In reply to wintertree:
Now that makes sense. You're trying to help when you're actually making the waiters job harder.
> It used to annoy my sister when she waitressed as it prevented her from stacking all the plates efficiently in one hand/bent arm. She preferred to work her way arround arranging plates, cutlery and bits and bobs in a practiced system. No idea how common this is. I only stack or pass plates when it's clear the server would struggle to reach them or where asked.
Now that makes sense. You're trying to help when you're actually making the waiters job harder.
In reply to sbc_10:
I don't get the impression that the OP doesn't think manners are a good thing, more that the way the person they were with gathered the plates together for the staff created a certain sense of awkwardness?
> True. I was elasticating the point as much as I could.
> As the person said above, retrieving plates from a deep alcove whilst leaning over candles, wine bottles and customers cannot be easy or fun.
> Just because waiters/waitresses are paid to do the job allows me to totally ignore their difficulties. Nope,afraid not. Manners still mean a bit to me.
I don't get the impression that the OP doesn't think manners are a good thing, more that the way the person they were with gathered the plates together for the staff created a certain sense of awkwardness?
Post edited at 20:49
In reply to ThunderCat:
Quite. Surely a good professional waiter or waitress(I'm not talking about Joe's Diner) will have developed his or her own system for clearing a table and any (well intentioned) interference could, I would imagine, be a hindrance.
> (In reply to wintertree)
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> Now that makes sense. You're trying to help when you're actually making the waiters job harder.
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> Now that makes sense. You're trying to help when you're actually making the waiters job harder.
Quite. Surely a good professional waiter or waitress(I'm not talking about Joe's Diner) will have developed his or her own system for clearing a table and any (well intentioned) interference could, I would imagine, be a hindrance.
In reply to Timmd:
Quite, it's more a matter of etiquette than manners.
> (In reply to sbc_10)
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> I don't get the impression that the OP doesn't think manners are a good thing, more that the way the person they were with gathered the plates together for the staff created a certain sense of awkwardness?
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> I don't get the impression that the OP doesn't think manners are a good thing, more that the way the person they were with gathered the plates together for the staff created a certain sense of awkwardness?
Quite, it's more a matter of etiquette than manners.
In reply to FesteringSore:
I suppose it depends on your point of view and where you draw the line. I've seen people in restaurants not even say "Thank you" when their food is delivered, or a glass of wine has been poured and act like the person serving them doesn't exist.
That strikes me as a bit rude. But you've got me thinking now, maybe I shouldn't. After all, it's what they're there for and what they're getting paid for, innit.
> Almost seems to me like a form of inverted snobbery: "Look at me, I'm lowering my social standards"
I suppose it depends on your point of view and where you draw the line. I've seen people in restaurants not even say "Thank you" when their food is delivered, or a glass of wine has been poured and act like the person serving them doesn't exist.
That strikes me as a bit rude. But you've got me thinking now, maybe I shouldn't. After all, it's what they're there for and what they're getting paid for, innit.
Post edited at 20:53
In reply to FesteringSore:
Stuffed shirt etiquette!
> Quite, it's more a matter of etiquette than manners.
Stuffed shirt etiquette!
In reply to FesteringSore:
Nearly everything can be done in an awkward way I guess. We probably never reach a point of not getting something wrong.
Good luck explaining to your friend how he's socially awkward. ()
> Quite, it's more a matter of etiquette than manners.
Nearly everything can be done in an awkward way I guess. We probably never reach a point of not getting something wrong.
Good luck explaining to your friend how he's socially awkward. ()
In reply to FesteringSore:
Some people, to an extent I would class myself as one of these people, think it is good manners to at least assist when somebody is carrying your bags, regardless of the cost of the establishment.
Not quite the same, but I get irritated by the over attentive service you get in some hotels and restaurants, particularly walking across the room to pour wine for you when I can simply extend my arm, lift and pour.
Some people, to an extent I would class myself as one of these people, think it is good manners to at least assist when somebody is carrying your bags, regardless of the cost of the establishment.
Not quite the same, but I get irritated by the over attentive service you get in some hotels and restaurants, particularly walking across the room to pour wine for you when I can simply extend my arm, lift and pour.
In reply to FesteringSore:
Quite, etiquette and manners are definately not the same thing, I think I would much rather spend time with someone with good manners, rather someone who is a rigid adherent to etiquette.
> Quite, it's more a matter of etiquette than manners.
Quite, etiquette and manners are definately not the same thing, I think I would much rather spend time with someone with good manners, rather someone who is a rigid adherent to etiquette.
In reply to The New NickB:
I've always found that they can, in fact, be combined.
> (In reply to FesteringSore)
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> Quite, etiquette and manners are definately not the same thing, I think I would much rather spend time with someone with good manners, rather someone who is a rigid adherent to etiquette.
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> Quite, etiquette and manners are definately not the same thing, I think I would much rather spend time with someone with good manners, rather someone who is a rigid adherent to etiquette.
I've always found that they can, in fact, be combined.
In reply to FesteringSore:
So starting a thread about your friend's behaviour is good manners AND good etiquette?
> I've always found that they can, in fact, be combined.
So starting a thread about your friend's behaviour is good manners AND good etiquette?
In reply to FesteringSore:
Why would anyone "stack the plates" at a restaurant? Your not at your mam's helping out FFS. You dine out to be free of such drudgery,and it would certainly ruin the ambiance.
Why would anyone "stack the plates" at a restaurant? Your not at your mam's helping out FFS. You dine out to be free of such drudgery,and it would certainly ruin the ambiance.
In reply to stroppygob:
I find it interesting how it seems to fit to pass things helpfully in a pub more than it might in a restaurant.
I find it interesting how it seems to fit to pass things helpfully in a pub more than it might in a restaurant.
Post edited at 22:05
In reply to Timmd:
A pub is a more homely experience, a restaurant you are out to dine. Does this guy offer to give a hand with the washing up too?
A pub is a more homely experience, a restaurant you are out to dine. Does this guy offer to give a hand with the washing up too?
In reply to stroppygob:
> (In reply to Timmd)
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> Does this guy offer to give a hand with the washing up too?
He's probably working on that.>
> Does this guy offer to give a hand with the washing up too?
In reply to stroppygob:
I guess from the thread and from looking around at behaviours in restaurants there's a wide spectrum of what people believe is expected of them, or is just the correct way to behave.
At one end there's the person who won't even acknowledge the waiter who has served his food, through to people who will thank the server, maybe exchange a few pleasantries, through to people like me who will maybe move empty glasses towards them so they're easier to collect, through to the other extreme of the OP's friend who seems to want to collect and stack all of the plates.
Meh. So he's gone overboard. Find it hard to have a go at people just because they've tried to be helpful but have maybe tried too hard.
> Why would anyone "stack the plates" at a restaurant? Your not at your mam's helping out FFS. You dine out to be free of such drudgery,and it would certainly ruin the ambiance.
I guess from the thread and from looking around at behaviours in restaurants there's a wide spectrum of what people believe is expected of them, or is just the correct way to behave.
At one end there's the person who won't even acknowledge the waiter who has served his food, through to people who will thank the server, maybe exchange a few pleasantries, through to people like me who will maybe move empty glasses towards them so they're easier to collect, through to the other extreme of the OP's friend who seems to want to collect and stack all of the plates.
Meh. So he's gone overboard. Find it hard to have a go at people just because they've tried to be helpful but have maybe tried too hard.
In reply to stroppygob:
Exactly. One eats out partly as a break from domestic tasks
> (In reply to FesteringSore)
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> Why would anyone "stack the plates" at a restaurant? Your not at your mam's helping out FFS. You dine out to be free of such drudgery,and it would certainly ruin the ambiance.
>
> Why would anyone "stack the plates" at a restaurant? Your not at your mam's helping out FFS. You dine out to be free of such drudgery,and it would certainly ruin the ambiance.
Exactly. One eats out partly as a break from domestic tasks
In reply to ThunderCat:
>So he's gone overboard. Find it hard to have a go at people just because they've tried to be helpful but have maybe tried too hard.
Knowing him as I do I suspect it's more to do with making some sort of point, in the same manner as his exagerated thumbs up
> (In reply to stroppygob)
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>So he's gone overboard. Find it hard to have a go at people just because they've tried to be helpful but have maybe tried too hard.
Knowing him as I do I suspect it's more to do with making some sort of point, in the same manner as his exagerated thumbs up
In reply to stroppygob:
Indeed, what I find interesting is how we seem to pick up on things 'which are done' largely subconsciously.
Even at a restaurant I'd pass a plate if the waiter or waitress has an arm full and is leaning gingerly to get something, for instance.
If it's not to make a point most people probably know what to do, to not spoil an atmosphere and to be helpful if it seems to fit.
> A pub is a more homely experience, a restaurant you are out to dine.
Indeed, what I find interesting is how we seem to pick up on things 'which are done' largely subconsciously.
Even at a restaurant I'd pass a plate if the waiter or waitress has an arm full and is leaning gingerly to get something, for instance.
If it's not to make a point most people probably know what to do, to not spoil an atmosphere and to be helpful if it seems to fit.
Post edited at 22:32
In reply to FesteringSore:
You going to bite the bullet and ask him about it? Or do you think it's best to let sleeping dogs lie and try and avoid future events together?
> >So he's gone overboard. Find it hard to have a go at people just because they've tried to be helpful but have maybe tried too hard.
> Knowing him as I do I suspect it's more to do with making some sort of point, in the same manner as his exagerated thumbs up
You going to bite the bullet and ask him about it? Or do you think it's best to let sleeping dogs lie and try and avoid future events together?
Post edited at 22:26
In reply to FesteringSore:
Or perhaps he's someone who finds it hard to read social cues? I've come across similar (inc very exaggerated thanks to other drivers) from a friend who has Asperger's. He knows the rules (ie he ought to thank people), but struggles to gauge if the way he's doing so seems appropriate to the person he's thanking/trying to help. IYSWIM?
Or perhaps he's someone who finds it hard to read social cues? I've come across similar (inc very exaggerated thanks to other drivers) from a friend who has Asperger's. He knows the rules (ie he ought to thank people), but struggles to gauge if the way he's doing so seems appropriate to the person he's thanking/trying to help. IYSWIM?
In reply to FesteringSore: Everyone seems normal until you get to know them.
In reply to Carolyn:
Hmmm, thought provoking.
> (In reply to FesteringSore)
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> Or perhaps he's someone who finds it hard to read social cues? I've come across similar (inc very exaggerated thanks to other drivers) from a friend who has Asperger's. He knows the rules (ie he ought to thank people), but struggles to gauge if the way he's doing so seems appropriate to the person he's thanking/trying to help. IYSWIM?
>
> Or perhaps he's someone who finds it hard to read social cues? I've come across similar (inc very exaggerated thanks to other drivers) from a friend who has Asperger's. He knows the rules (ie he ought to thank people), but struggles to gauge if the way he's doing so seems appropriate to the person he's thanking/trying to help. IYSWIM?
Hmmm, thought provoking.
In reply to wintertree:
I'm with you on this.
This, too. Not sure about feeling like an OAP, but I do feel a bit weird about someone else taking my bag - I don't like the vague feeling that they think I can't manage my own bag.
I don't mind the offer, but I've practically been elbowed out of the way by the porters in a couple of places - not sure if they were purely after the tip or thought management would give them a hard time if the guests were carrying their own bags.
On the other hand, I've been glad of it a couple of times after a long-haul flight when I was knackered!
> I only stack or pass plates when it's clear the server would struggle to reach them or where asked.
I'm with you on this.
> On the doorman thing, I hate it. I can open a door and cary my own bag, having someone try and do it makes me feel like a feeble OAP. I also have a strong urge to not let other people ever touch my stuff, as one of the steps I take to never be robbed.
This, too. Not sure about feeling like an OAP, but I do feel a bit weird about someone else taking my bag - I don't like the vague feeling that they think I can't manage my own bag.
I don't mind the offer, but I've practically been elbowed out of the way by the porters in a couple of places - not sure if they were purely after the tip or thought management would give them a hard time if the guests were carrying their own bags.
On the other hand, I've been glad of it a couple of times after a long-haul flight when I was knackered!
In reply to FesteringSore:
I have mates who will go to the bar for their round and leave the empties on the table. Lazy gits or would you agree with this behaviour, it being someone else's job and all that?
I have mates who will go to the bar for their round and leave the empties on the table. Lazy gits or would you agree with this behaviour, it being someone else's job and all that?
In reply to Skol:
Do you stack all the cutlery on the top plate as well?
Scraping leftover food around at a restaurant table is BAD manners. This is why waiting staff don't do it. Plates should be stacked with the cutlery and any leftover food still on them. Behind closed doors, in the kitchen / washroom, is where all the sorting occurs.
> I like the sound of him! I stack the plates and put the remaining food on the top plate. It's manners?
Do you stack all the cutlery on the top plate as well?
Scraping leftover food around at a restaurant table is BAD manners. This is why waiting staff don't do it. Plates should be stacked with the cutlery and any leftover food still on them. Behind closed doors, in the kitchen / washroom, is where all the sorting occurs.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Scraping leftover food around at a restaurant table is BAD manners. This is why waiting staff don't do it. Plates should be stacked with the cutlery and any leftover food still on them. Behind closed doors, in the kitchen / washroom, is where all the sorting occurs.
Is asking for a doggy bag considered bad manners as well?
Scraping leftover food around at a restaurant table is BAD manners. This is why waiting staff don't do it. Plates should be stacked with the cutlery and any leftover food still on them. Behind closed doors, in the kitchen / washroom, is where all the sorting occurs.
Is asking for a doggy bag considered bad manners as well?
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Also, apparently at some restaurants the head chef will regularly inspect food left on plates to try and spot any unusual patterns - beyond the vagaries of human appetite - that might indicate a problem or a quietly unhappy customer. Or at least that's my understanding of the Michelin starred world, never having been there...
> Scraping leftover food around at a restaurant table is BAD manners. This is why waiting staff don't do it
Also, apparently at some restaurants the head chef will regularly inspect food left on plates to try and spot any unusual patterns - beyond the vagaries of human appetite - that might indicate a problem or a quietly unhappy customer. Or at least that's my understanding of the Michelin starred world, never having been there...
In reply to FesteringSore:
Are you so sure it's a negative thing on his part? Are you so sure you know his motives are not something different to what you are expecting? Do you really consider him a friend?
Are you so sure it's a negative thing on his part? Are you so sure you know his motives are not something different to what you are expecting? Do you really consider him a friend?
In reply to CurlyStevo:
The OP refers to him as "hubby". I infer from this that the OP's actual friend is a lady, and the man under scrutiny here is a "friend by marriage only"
> Are you so sure it's a negative thing on his part? Are you so sure you know his motives are not something different to what you are expecting? Do you really consider him a friend?
The OP refers to him as "hubby". I infer from this that the OP's actual friend is a lady, and the man under scrutiny here is a "friend by marriage only"
In reply to FesteringSore:
The whole stacking plates thing used to do my nut in when I was a waiter, especially if there was more than three people on the table.
The pub had giant white plates and a stack higher than three with all the cutlery piled on top was a nightmare to carry back to the kitchen, especially for the smaller waitresses.
Of course, you can separate the stack but now most of the plates are covered in gravy/sauce on both sides meaning you have to carry them at arms length or cover yourself in today's special.
Customers making a big thing of stacking the plates for us (there were plenty) were usually greeted with a withering look and 'Er, thanks'
The whole stacking plates thing used to do my nut in when I was a waiter, especially if there was more than three people on the table.
The pub had giant white plates and a stack higher than three with all the cutlery piled on top was a nightmare to carry back to the kitchen, especially for the smaller waitresses.
Of course, you can separate the stack but now most of the plates are covered in gravy/sauce on both sides meaning you have to carry them at arms length or cover yourself in today's special.
Customers making a big thing of stacking the plates for us (there were plenty) were usually greeted with a withering look and 'Er, thanks'
Post edited at 07:27
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Not in Sids cafe it isn't
> (In reply to Skol)
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> Do you stack all the cutlery on the top plate as well?
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> Scraping leftover food around at a restaurant table is BAD manners. This is why waiting staff don't do it. Plates should be stacked with the cutlery and any leftover food still on them. Behind closed doors, in the kitchen / washroom, is where all the sorting occurs.
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> Do you stack all the cutlery on the top plate as well?
>
> Scraping leftover food around at a restaurant table is BAD manners. This is why waiting staff don't do it. Plates should be stacked with the cutlery and any leftover food still on them. Behind closed doors, in the kitchen / washroom, is where all the sorting occurs.
Not in Sids cafe it isn't
In reply to FesteringSore:
I`d say this goes to the heart of it, some would argue does it matter if you don`t put your knife and fork together? or lick your knife? so on one level no not really, but it`s little social norms that oil society.
As a good friend you should except your friend foibles, it`s good etiquette, thats unless his actions affect other diners, what the staff think so long as no one is rude to them, does not matter unless you upset them enough to gob in your food.
> (In reply to sbc_10)
> [...]
>
> [...]
> Surely most waiters/waitresses would know that from when you put your knife and fork together on the plate
> [...]
>
> [...]
> Surely most waiters/waitresses would know that from when you put your knife and fork together on the plate
I`d say this goes to the heart of it, some would argue does it matter if you don`t put your knife and fork together? or lick your knife? so on one level no not really, but it`s little social norms that oil society.
As a good friend you should except your friend foibles, it`s good etiquette, thats unless his actions affect other diners, what the staff think so long as no one is rude to them, does not matter unless you upset them enough to gob in your food.
In reply to Troy Tempest:
People trying (wrongly as it turns out ) to help get treated with contempt. Maybe a "thanks, I'll take care of that" might be more productive.
> Customers making a big thing of stacking the plates for us (there were plenty) were usually greeted with a withering look and 'Er, thanks'
People trying (wrongly as it turns out ) to help get treated with contempt. Maybe a "thanks, I'll take care of that" might be more productive.
Post edited at 08:06
In reply to Tom Valentine:
FFS - 1st world problems.
You go to a restaurant for the experience of dining out. If a helpful and attentive server tops up your wine glass while you're busy enjoying the company and chatting with friends is that such a bad thing?
Also, you're not looking down on subservient people - you're entering into a contract where you're getting something in return for the bill and its best if both parties act professionally - eg. do what's expected. Stacking plates and mucking around with the system is not what is expected of the diner.
I stay in a lot of high-ish end hotels as I travel a lot for business and always get asked if I need help with my bags. Usually I say no as I only travel with what is manageable, and it gets left at that - not once have I ever felt this to be a problem, even in the US. Any pressure people feel or unease is probably more in your mind than anything - the hotel is just offering a service. Use it or don't.
> How does one feel about the waiter pouring one's wine?
> I f*cking hate it
FFS - 1st world problems.
You go to a restaurant for the experience of dining out. If a helpful and attentive server tops up your wine glass while you're busy enjoying the company and chatting with friends is that such a bad thing?
Also, you're not looking down on subservient people - you're entering into a contract where you're getting something in return for the bill and its best if both parties act professionally - eg. do what's expected. Stacking plates and mucking around with the system is not what is expected of the diner.
I stay in a lot of high-ish end hotels as I travel a lot for business and always get asked if I need help with my bags. Usually I say no as I only travel with what is manageable, and it gets left at that - not once have I ever felt this to be a problem, even in the US. Any pressure people feel or unease is probably more in your mind than anything - the hotel is just offering a service. Use it or don't.
In reply to yorkshireman:
Exactly. We have some weird hang ups in Britain about both serving and being served. No one would "help" their solicitor, for example, by unilaterally filing their papers, so why do they think they have to "help" waiters? Let them do their job and enjoy a meal out without having to worry about clearing plates, washing up etc.
> You go to a restaurant for the experience of dining out. If a helpful and attentive server tops up your wine glass while you're busy enjoying the company and chatting with friends is that such a bad thing?
Exactly. We have some weird hang ups in Britain about both serving and being served. No one would "help" their solicitor, for example, by unilaterally filing their papers, so why do they think they have to "help" waiters? Let them do their job and enjoy a meal out without having to worry about clearing plates, washing up etc.
In reply to yorkshireman:
I get pretty sick of people using this term to dismiss someone else's opinion, it's just a cheap shot. 99% of things discussed on these forums are 1st world problems.
Personally I am happy to pay for great food and great service, but for me a great restaurant experience is great food, a relaxed environment, knowledgable and friendly staff, but I would prefer the staff leave me alone except when I feel I need them. Coming over to pour more wine every time I get near the bottom of the glass, just doesn't really do it for me.
> FFS - 1st world problems.
I get pretty sick of people using this term to dismiss someone else's opinion, it's just a cheap shot. 99% of things discussed on these forums are 1st world problems.
Personally I am happy to pay for great food and great service, but for me a great restaurant experience is great food, a relaxed environment, knowledgable and friendly staff, but I would prefer the staff leave me alone except when I feel I need them. Coming over to pour more wine every time I get near the bottom of the glass, just doesn't really do it for me.
In reply to The New NickB:
alone except when I feel I need them. Coming over to pour more wine every time I get near the bottom of the glass, just doesn't really do it for me.
Which is a fair point and brings in the other side of things. Waiting is actually quite skilled and skilled waiter would be sensitive to how much input you would want. Assuming, as we tend to, it can be done well by a 16 year old with little training is unrealistic. The French and Italians take it more seriously, for example. (Even developing the ability to sneer at will and produce dramatic mock horror at the sight of 20 euro not proffered for a coffee!)
alone except when I feel I need them. Coming over to pour more wine every time I get near the bottom of the glass, just doesn't really do it for me.
Which is a fair point and brings in the other side of things. Waiting is actually quite skilled and skilled waiter would be sensitive to how much input you would want. Assuming, as we tend to, it can be done well by a 16 year old with little training is unrealistic. The French and Italians take it more seriously, for example. (Even developing the ability to sneer at will and produce dramatic mock horror at the sight of 20 euro not proffered for a coffee!)
In reply to MG:
The silver service / wine pouring type traditional 'good' service is probably a lot easier to train than the sort of service I prefer.
The silver service / wine pouring type traditional 'good' service is probably a lot easier to train than the sort of service I prefer.
In reply to The New NickB:
I find the term brings a certain amount of perspective, most of what we bitch about doesn't matter particularly*.
*No offence implied to anyone who doesn't like the term before it starts a hoohar like it might on UKC. ()
> I get pretty sick of people using this term to dismiss someone else's opinion, it's just a cheap shot. 99% of things discussed on these forums are 1st world problems.
I find the term brings a certain amount of perspective, most of what we bitch about doesn't matter particularly*.
*No offence implied to anyone who doesn't like the term before it starts a hoohar like it might on UKC. ()
Post edited at 11:28
In reply to FesteringSore:
On getting to know him better, you just didn't like him that much did you?
It's funny how the habits of someone you like seem endearing, sweet, thoughtful...
and those of someone you just don't like feel grating....
On getting to know him better, you just didn't like him that much did you?
It's funny how the habits of someone you like seem endearing, sweet, thoughtful...
and those of someone you just don't like feel grating....
In reply to FesteringSore:
I noticed that in France recently and in the past were professional service staff are treated as such that people let them get on with their job unless it obviously helpful to move something into an easier position. People are also more willing to engage them in non socially awkward conversation and to ask them their professional opinion on the food and the wine, my wife’s “helpful” rearranging of the finished plates was obviously tolerated rather than welcome.
We seem to have a lot of social hang ups in Britain not helped by the fact we should all be aware that the majority of service staff are on a very poor deal/exploited/not on a living wage, a lot of them require some form of benifits to make up their wages so are now under the present political climate a "burden" on society
I noticed that in France recently and in the past were professional service staff are treated as such that people let them get on with their job unless it obviously helpful to move something into an easier position. People are also more willing to engage them in non socially awkward conversation and to ask them their professional opinion on the food and the wine, my wife’s “helpful” rearranging of the finished plates was obviously tolerated rather than welcome.
We seem to have a lot of social hang ups in Britain not helped by the fact we should all be aware that the majority of service staff are on a very poor deal/exploited/not on a living wage, a lot of them require some form of benifits to make up their wages so are now under the present political climate a "burden" on society
In reply to MG:
But the solicitor is charging £90p/h to sign a few forms, whereas the waiters are probably on minimum wage.
And you'd still say 'thank you' to the solicitor, whereas, as mentioned, lots of people don't even acknowledge service staff. Just because you're paying for a service doesn't excuse you from being a decent social human.
> No one would "help" their solicitor, for example
But the solicitor is charging £90p/h to sign a few forms, whereas the waiters are probably on minimum wage.
And you'd still say 'thank you' to the solicitor, whereas, as mentioned, lots of people don't even acknowledge service staff. Just because you're paying for a service doesn't excuse you from being a decent social human.
In reply to ThunderCat:
Ha! Probably, then again it was rural Yorkshire, we're quite a blunt breed.
Ha! Probably, then again it was rural Yorkshire, we're quite a blunt breed.
In reply to The New NickB:
Sorry if that's how you felt, but I was responding to Tom V whose comment about having his wine poured by the waiter was 'I f*cking hate it'.
I think in that context I was justified as he really needed a reality check unless he was being ironic which didn't come across. I just got a bit bugged about what I perceived as some whingeing about stuff that really isn't a problem - but then I guess that's the whole point of this forum.
> I get pretty sick of people using this term to dismiss someone else's opinion, it's just a cheap shot. 99% of things discussed on these forums are 1st world problems.
Sorry if that's how you felt, but I was responding to Tom V whose comment about having his wine poured by the waiter was 'I f*cking hate it'.
I think in that context I was justified as he really needed a reality check unless he was being ironic which didn't come across. I just got a bit bugged about what I perceived as some whingeing about stuff that really isn't a problem - but then I guess that's the whole point of this forum.
In reply to yorkshireman:
You are right, of course. "Hate" is much too strong a word and the profanity was completely unnecessary.
I'm still a bit puzzled, though, why your scorn was directed at me when it could equally justifiably been directed at FS for being a bit uneasy about his plate gathering mate's behaviour. Or is that not a 1st world problem?
You are right, of course. "Hate" is much too strong a word and the profanity was completely unnecessary.
I'm still a bit puzzled, though, why your scorn was directed at me when it could equally justifiably been directed at FS for being a bit uneasy about his plate gathering mate's behaviour. Or is that not a 1st world problem?
In reply to yorkshireman:
Maybe it does send Tom in to a violent rage, but more likely it mildly irritates him, but in the context of this thread, which is complete fluff, a little exaggeration of emotional response for effect is completely understandable.
> Sorry if that's how you felt, but I was responding to Tom V whose comment about having his wine poured by the waiter was 'I f*cking hate it'.
> I think in that context I was justified as he really needed a reality check unless he was being ironic which didn't come across. I just got a bit bugged about what I perceived as some whingeing about stuff that really isn't a problem - but then I guess that's the whole point of this forum.
Maybe it does send Tom in to a violent rage, but more likely it mildly irritates him, but in the context of this thread, which is complete fluff, a little exaggeration of emotional response for effect is completely understandable.
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