UKC

Ok so without going into a discussion about whether they should be in or not....

I am replacing threads placed by a first ascensionist 18 years ago and although i am removing (permanently) the ones that are unnecessary (and re-leading the route without), some are essential on the routes and a couple are used for abseil retreat.

These ones are chunky ones (9mm) on a sea cliff.

What is the most durable type of rope to use?

Are there any other alternative materials?

Can they be coated/painted to avoid deterioration?

cheers

Mark

In reply to The Pylon King:

I find a nice section of stainless chain does the trick personally

In reply to willworkforfoodjnr:

seriously?

In reply to The Pylon King:

Maybe semi static caving rope?? Tends to be hard wearing.

I've no real objection to a single in situ thread, but I hate it when there are multiple, old tatty slings. Carry a knife and cut 'em out!

In reply to The Pylon King:
"although i am removing (permanently) the ones that are unnecessary"

Should that read "I'm removing the ones I think are unnecessary"?

" (and re-leading the route without)," presumably you are meaning "I'm showing it can be climbed in the original or expect style" rather than "I'm changing the style of the route and if I can still climb it tough luck"?

It is hard to tell from your OP if you're planning character changing butchery of in situ threads or a spot of tidying up!

In reply to duchessofmalfi:


I think it's fair to trust the judgement of someone bothering to do the tidying up, and if you don't like it, re-tidy it yourself?

In reply to The Pylon King:

From what i've expreienced in the Peak (having replaced a fair few insitu belays and threads, avoid tape if at all possible, it's terrible stuff because every single strand is exposed to sunlight, weakening it very quickly. Rope is much better because the strong core never sees any sunlight at all.

In terms of which rope? About the fattest that will reasonably fit, and ideally something with a large proportion to sheath to core, so that the core is well protected. Coincidentally static rope often has the thickest core, but that's not to say that old climbing rope is no good, that's often what I use. The cheapest place to buy static stuff that i've found is Caving Supplies in Buxton.

Hope that helps!

In reply to duchessofmalfi:



Don't worry about, its not what the thread is about.

But to save any pointless discussions...

There are several threads that are either right next to good wire slots or can easily be placed by hand, so after some discussion, we, the small team of three that are probably doing the second ascents of these routes are deciding whether specific threads are needed or not.

In reply to The Pylon King:

why don't you take them all out and just place on lead? Or ab in and pre place to reduce the route to a level you are confortable with and then get the second to remove them, or remove after on abseil - why leave something semi permanent?

In reply to The Pylon King:

Hi Mark, assuming it's Brean Fort you are talking about, it's worth considering whether any of the placements are within range of storm waves - there was one on Honeycomb (before the traverse right) which was almost shredded through when I checked it three years ago, even though that's about 30' above high tide level. I removed it and didn't replace it as it was easily threadable on lead. Apart from that, I've always just used rope (definitely not tape) of the thickest diameter possible. I suspect it holds its strength a lot longer than people think, but you've reminded me I want to send some rope lower-offs (which I know the approximate date of placement of) off to Dan Middleton at the BMC for him to test.

Rick

In reply to The Pylon King:

Ancedotally I've heard that rope retains its strength for much longer than tape (because the strength is in a rope's core, and so unlike tape it suffers less from exposure to weather/UV). I'd therefore use decent thickness rope. If you're buying new rope rather than recyling retired climbing rope, why not go for black rope to reduce the visual impact.

For lower-offs a recent development on the Culm coast is for stacks of multiple coloured old tat to be replaced by a single stainless steel chain (but only where it can be threaded around a natural feature in the same way rope would be). I was initially sceptical of this approach, largely due to concerns about it being the thin edge of the wedge. However, having climbed at Sharpnose recently the chain at the top of Lunakod is pretty low key and doesn't detract from the trad character of the route. Further details of the policy are here:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=595128&v=1#x7850797

In reply to kingholmesy:


That makes a lot of sense, and I think it's an extremely sensible thing to have happened. Ogf course a chain instead of multiple shitty old tat doesn't detract from the trad character of a route! Those who say it does are probably mad.

In reply to The Pylon King: If you know anyone who works offshore ask them if they can get some of this -

http://www.tprosporting.com/servlet/the-486/Kevlar-Rope-1-fdsh-4-Military/D...

You can leave it sub sea for months with little deterioration. Its great to tie knots in, has excellent anti abrasive qualities and it is has incredible high tensile properties.
I have some at home if you'd like some posting.

In reply to kingholmesy:


Where's the fun in that then? - https://www.flickr.com/photos/87719719@N03/8330324808/in/photostream/lightb... I have to admit I backed it up when I lowered off the tat but my lighter (and clearly much braver) partner got my sling backed and abbed off the tat roulette!

In reply to Rick Sewards:



More like 10'.

In reply to Steve Perry:


No it isn't. Kevlar is brittle and loses strength dramatically when forced round a tight radius. Hence why it says on your link:

"Not recommended for use over pulleys or flexing applications"

Unless you are skilled enough to splice it insitu, and the thread is big enough and smooth enough to have no tight bends, kevlar cannot be recommended.

Generally I'd go for 8-11mm rope, EN1891 low-stretch will have a thicker sheath 'caver's static', and take something (windproof lighter) to seal cut ends.

Stainless chain or wire strop joined with a stainless maillon is great if it will fit but only realistically likely to be an option on big ab points. Chee tor has a few wire strops around the big threads in the girdle break - any Petzl stockist will be able to source stainless strops and maillons from Lyon.

I would consider finding some way to mark them with the date installed too. Folk will feel compelled to back them up whatever you install, but a date at least gives folk some basis to work from.

In reply to Adam Long:

Thanks Adam and everyone else.

In reply to The Pylon King:

Could talk to Roger (FCQ) about wire strops for ab points. For running belays I guess you're stuck with the largest diameter semi static that can be threaded in the placement. I'll keep an eye out for some 9mm as-new ab rope (which is always useful, maybe share it).

In reply to Rick Sewards:


I assume that the waves repeatedly knock the thread against the rock, and abrade the material. One could perhaps thread the cord through a plastic tube to protect it?