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An emotive subject on UKC, I know, but I was walking down the street this morning and got the full effect of a lung full of exhaled tobacco smoke from somebody in front of me. I actually found it nauseating and felt I was about to gag on it.
I mention this because, since having undergone chemotherapy for the last four months, I get a feeling that I am now even more sensitive to tobacco smoke than ever.
Just wonder if anyone else has had any similar experience.
I mention this because, since having undergone chemotherapy for the last four months, I get a feeling that I am now even more sensitive to tobacco smoke than ever.
Just wonder if anyone else has had any similar experience.
In reply to mypyrex:
No but it does happen for all sorts of smells and tastes after chemo. Not a fan of smokers or smoking before the chemo though were you. As an ex smoker I hate the smell unless I've had a beer or seven and then its the finest aromatic incense.
D
No but it does happen for all sorts of smells and tastes after chemo. Not a fan of smokers or smoking before the chemo though were you. As an ex smoker I hate the smell unless I've had a beer or seven and then its the finest aromatic incense.
D
In reply to mypyrex:
Oh look, a smoker-bashing thread, How nice.
Was that really needed or do you get off on stirring up hatred?
If so is there any possibility you might find something else more productive to do with your time?
John (non-smoker)
Oh look, a smoker-bashing thread, How nice.
Was that really needed or do you get off on stirring up hatred?
If so is there any possibility you might find something else more productive to do with your time?
John (non-smoker)
In reply to mypyrex:
When I first gave up smoking, I used to relish passing smokers in the street so I could take a sneaky sniff at their smoke.
Some years later, I had a few cigarettes on a drunken night out. Combination of booze and cigarettes made me violently ill. Since then, second hand smoke makes me gag.
When I first gave up smoking, I used to relish passing smokers in the street so I could take a sneaky sniff at their smoke.
Some years later, I had a few cigarettes on a drunken night out. Combination of booze and cigarettes made me violently ill. Since then, second hand smoke makes me gag.
In reply to John_Hat:
There have been two sensible replies to my post enquiring whether anyone - particularly those who may have had to undergo chemo - had, perhaps developed a greater distaste for second hand cigarette smoke. It was a genuine enquiry. FWIW,unless you have done so I hope you never have to undergo treatment for cancer. I still think, however, that your thoughtless comment shows what an arsehole you are capable of being.
There have been two sensible replies to my post enquiring whether anyone - particularly those who may have had to undergo chemo - had, perhaps developed a greater distaste for second hand cigarette smoke. It was a genuine enquiry. FWIW,unless you have done so I hope you never have to undergo treatment for cancer. I still think, however, that your thoughtless comment shows what an arsehole you are capable of being.
In reply to John_Hat:
I can only imagine that you didn't read the whole post, feel very stupid now and probably wish to apologise?
I can only imagine that you didn't read the whole post, feel very stupid now and probably wish to apologise?
In reply to Ava Adore:
I quit smoking 10 years ago. I often find the waft of cigarette smoke not unpleasant. However, the smell of stale tobacco on someone who's recently had a ciggy I find smells foul.
But that's their issue, not mine.
I quit smoking 10 years ago. I often find the waft of cigarette smoke not unpleasant. However, the smell of stale tobacco on someone who's recently had a ciggy I find smells foul.
But that's their issue, not mine.
In reply to John_Hat:
I don't see any "smoker-bashing" in the OP.
You are uncharacteristically back to how you were a few years ago. But picking on softer targets. Wind it in.
> Oh look, a smoker-bashing thread
I don't see any "smoker-bashing" in the OP.
You are uncharacteristically back to how you were a few years ago. But picking on softer targets. Wind it in.
In reply to mypyrex:
It isn't just you. I cross the road if I end up down wind of a smoker. The other evening we went to a wedding and ended up socialising inside the doors of the main venue whilst it was being reset for the evening do. Despite being inside, the smokers outside were still able to make me relive the 90's morning after smoke stench on my clothes.
It isn't just you. I cross the road if I end up down wind of a smoker. The other evening we went to a wedding and ended up socialising inside the doors of the main venue whilst it was being reset for the evening do. Despite being inside, the smokers outside were still able to make me relive the 90's morning after smoke stench on my clothes.
In reply to mypyrex:
Can't speak at all for the chemo angle I'm afraid.
Quit the tabs about 7 years ago and have to admit that I find the smell of second hand smoke awful (fresh unsmoked tobacco is quite nice though).
I tend to subtly walk away from smokers without making a song and dance because I'm sure I pi**ed off countless non-smokers when I DID smoke. So maybe it's just desserts
I wonder if the fact that smoking is banned in public spaces makes us non / ex smokers even more sensitive to it? In the past we've probably tuned it out a bit because it was always there as a background smell in pubs and restaurants. Whereas now it's not.
Hope you're keeping well after the treatment, by the way.
Can't speak at all for the chemo angle I'm afraid.
Quit the tabs about 7 years ago and have to admit that I find the smell of second hand smoke awful (fresh unsmoked tobacco is quite nice though).
I tend to subtly walk away from smokers without making a song and dance because I'm sure I pi**ed off countless non-smokers when I DID smoke. So maybe it's just desserts
I wonder if the fact that smoking is banned in public spaces makes us non / ex smokers even more sensitive to it? In the past we've probably tuned it out a bit because it was always there as a background smell in pubs and restaurants. Whereas now it's not.
Hope you're keeping well after the treatment, by the way.
In reply to ThunderCat:
Thanks. I think you're right to an extent. Ex-smokers are perhaps more sensitive to it. I speak as an ex-pipe smoker(30 years ago)
Thanks. I think you're right to an extent. Ex-smokers are perhaps more sensitive to it. I speak as an ex-pipe smoker(30 years ago)
In reply to mypyrex:
At the crag (les gaillands) yesterday and the group next to us were smoking joints which was really unpleasant to be near. Unfortunately the crag was so manic there wasn't much option. The smell is much worse than normal smoke, to my sense anyway.
At the crag (les gaillands) yesterday and the group next to us were smoking joints which was really unpleasant to be near. Unfortunately the crag was so manic there wasn't much option. The smell is much worse than normal smoke, to my sense anyway.
In reply to mypyrex:
Just concerned that the thread was about to disintegrate into another smoker-bashing thread. Which it hasn't, as yet. Super.
I also - apparently incorrectly - thought that the OP was aimed at getting the thread that way. If it was not and, as you say, a genuine enquiry, then of course I apologise.
No worries
JHx
Just concerned that the thread was about to disintegrate into another smoker-bashing thread. Which it hasn't, as yet. Super.
I also - apparently incorrectly - thought that the OP was aimed at getting the thread that way. If it was not and, as you say, a genuine enquiry, then of course I apologise.
No worries
JHx
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I would suggest that people in glass houses - especially yourself with your performance (for want of a better word and I can think of many) on this forum - shouldn't throw stones....
See apology above.
> (In reply to John_Hat)
>
> You are uncharacteristically back to how you were a few years ago. But picking on softer targets. Wind it in.
>
> You are uncharacteristically back to how you were a few years ago. But picking on softer targets. Wind it in.
I would suggest that people in glass houses - especially yourself with your performance (for want of a better word and I can think of many) on this forum - shouldn't throw stones....
See apology above.
Post edited at 17:27
In reply to John_Hat:
Your apology is accepted. I do not seek sympathy nor do I wish to precipitate another anti-smoking campaign, but having having endured six months of diagnosis and treatment I do find for all sorts of reasons I am now, more than ever, aware of others smoking and my philosophy remains "if they want to screw themselves up doing it - fine but..." As I said in my OP I was curious to know whether others who'd had the misfortune to go through the same had a similar experience.
Your apology is accepted. I do not seek sympathy nor do I wish to precipitate another anti-smoking campaign, but having having endured six months of diagnosis and treatment I do find for all sorts of reasons I am now, more than ever, aware of others smoking and my philosophy remains "if they want to screw themselves up doing it - fine but..." As I said in my OP I was curious to know whether others who'd had the misfortune to go through the same had a similar experience.
In reply to ThunderCat:
What he said although I quit 12 years ago and not another has found itself in my mouth. Strange that i also love the smell of unsmoked tobacco, especially pipe tobacco. Not cigs though.
> Can't speak at all for the chemo angle I'm afraid.
> Quit the tabs about 7 years ago and have to admit that I find the smell of second hand smoke awful (fresh unsmoked tobacco is quite nice though).
> I tend to subtly walk away from smokers without making a song and dance because I'm sure I pi**ed off countless non-smokers when I DID smoke. So maybe it's just desserts
> I wonder if the fact that smoking is banned in public spaces makes us non / ex smokers even more sensitive to it? In the past we've probably tuned it out a bit because it was always there as a background smell in pubs and restaurants. Whereas now it's not.
> Hope you're keeping well after the treatment, by the way.
What he said although I quit 12 years ago and not another has found itself in my mouth. Strange that i also love the smell of unsmoked tobacco, especially pipe tobacco. Not cigs though.
In reply to mypyrex:
one lungfull of second hand smoke is not going to do anyone any harm, not compared to living in a city surrounded by bus, car, lorry fumes on a daily basis.
Its not pleasant, but thats life!
one lungfull of second hand smoke is not going to do anyone any harm, not compared to living in a city surrounded by bus, car, lorry fumes on a daily basis.
Its not pleasant, but thats life!
In reply to ow arm:
> one lungfull of second hand smoke is not going to do anyone any harm,
That was not the point of my OP In reply to mypyrex: I used to say I would start smoking again at 60, I've reached that now and haven't restarted yet, maybe defer for another few years...
Ah, but the scent of Woodbine, Hamlet, Gaullois, Gitanes... Sublime.
Ah, but the scent of Woodbine, Hamlet, Gaullois, Gitanes... Sublime.
In reply to mypyrex:
Having quit smoking for 10 years plus+ I still find the aroma of fresh tobacco smoke alluring, that's why I hate smelling it.
Fortunately smokers still smell like ashtrays to me.
Having quit smoking for 10 years plus+ I still find the aroma of fresh tobacco smoke alluring, that's why I hate smelling it.
Fortunately smokers still smell like ashtrays to me.
Post edited at 22:27
In reply to Rob Exile Ward & Stroppygob:
Yes, one memory I have of my grandfather, bless him, was when he used to be in his workshop(he was an accomplished cabinet maker), knee deep in wood shavings and sawdust and the ever present whiff of the shavings and grandad's Woodbine
Yes, one memory I have of my grandfather, bless him, was when he used to be in his workshop(he was an accomplished cabinet maker), knee deep in wood shavings and sawdust and the ever present whiff of the shavings and grandad's Woodbine
Post edited at 22:21
In reply to mypyrex:
My view is the same - pretty much that I am happy for anyone to go to hell in whichever manner they see fit, whether it be smoking, skydiving, climbing or experimental drug-taking. Whilst the argument about loved ones is fair, its the loved ones of the people concerned and hence none of my business.
Whilst I've not (currently) had a disease like cancer, I have had a Dad that died of a whole pile of smoking-related diseases and a mum with a variety of cancers, so am not uninitiated.
Peace
My view is the same - pretty much that I am happy for anyone to go to hell in whichever manner they see fit, whether it be smoking, skydiving, climbing or experimental drug-taking. Whilst the argument about loved ones is fair, its the loved ones of the people concerned and hence none of my business.
Whilst I've not (currently) had a disease like cancer, I have had a Dad that died of a whole pile of smoking-related diseases and a mum with a variety of cancers, so am not uninitiated.
Peace
In reply to Blue Straggler\'s deleted post:
I have been in many arguments on here, and what with the cut and thrust of argument some people sometimes go too far, whether it be for words said in mis-understanding or error, or simply after too many beers or after a bad day at work, or after reading half a post.
I have had many people apologize to me and equally I have apologized to many people.
I would strongly note that I generally appreciate - and respect - that ALL apologies publicly given are sincere, and certainly the ones I have given have been.
I have been in many arguments on here, and what with the cut and thrust of argument some people sometimes go too far, whether it be for words said in mis-understanding or error, or simply after too many beers or after a bad day at work, or after reading half a post.
I have had many people apologize to me and equally I have apologized to many people.
I would strongly note that I generally appreciate - and respect - that ALL apologies publicly given are sincere, and certainly the ones I have given have been.
Post edited at 23:37
In reply to mypyrex:
Every time Mrs Num Num gives up smoking she normally takes her nicotine patch off when she wants to have a fag then sticks it back on again after she stubbs it out.
Every time Mrs Num Num gives up smoking she normally takes her nicotine patch off when she wants to have a fag then sticks it back on again after she stubbs it out.
In reply to birdie num num:
When I first "gave up" years ago, I used to do that!
> (In reply to mypyrex)
>
> Every time Mrs Num Num gives up smoking she normally takes her nicotine patch off when she wants to have a fag then sticks it back on again after she stubbs it out.
>
> Every time Mrs Num Num gives up smoking she normally takes her nicotine patch off when she wants to have a fag then sticks it back on again after she stubbs it out.
When I first "gave up" years ago, I used to do that!
In reply to mypyrex:
Illness and mediciation do seem to have strange effects on your psychology. A trivial example, I remember when I was a child I would eat the same breakfast cereal everyday for months or years but a few times I was sick and didn't eat for a few days and after that I would go off said cereal and switch to another one, then switch back after another period of sickness.
Slightly less trivial example, I was treated for depression a few years back with SSRIs and ever since I find I can come to the verge of tears (not in a depressed way, just in a 'that's so sad' way) at tiny things: moments in films, lyrics, or just a particularly poignant thought.
Having said that, smoke does make me gag regardless. Call me ungrateful but since the ban, I get irritated that smokers are forced/choose to congregate directly outside the entrance or exit of buildings so you have to walk through the fumes. It's not pleasant and not a great experience for customers or vistors to a business.
Illness and mediciation do seem to have strange effects on your psychology. A trivial example, I remember when I was a child I would eat the same breakfast cereal everyday for months or years but a few times I was sick and didn't eat for a few days and after that I would go off said cereal and switch to another one, then switch back after another period of sickness.
Slightly less trivial example, I was treated for depression a few years back with SSRIs and ever since I find I can come to the verge of tears (not in a depressed way, just in a 'that's so sad' way) at tiny things: moments in films, lyrics, or just a particularly poignant thought.
Having said that, smoke does make me gag regardless. Call me ungrateful but since the ban, I get irritated that smokers are forced/choose to congregate directly outside the entrance or exit of buildings so you have to walk through the fumes. It's not pleasant and not a great experience for customers or vistors to a business.
Post edited at 10:33
In reply to Ava Adore:
I thought you had to stick the patches onto the end of all your cigarettes - anyway I tried it and it worked a treat: I just couldn't light them up.
> Every time Mrs Num Num gives up smoking she normally takes her nicotine patch off when she wants to have a fag then sticks it back on again after she stubbs it out.
> When I first "gave up" years ago, I used to do that!
I thought you had to stick the patches onto the end of all your cigarettes - anyway I tried it and it worked a treat: I just couldn't light them up.
In reply to abseil:
Put them over your eyes - you won't be able to find your tabs anywhere.
> I thought you had to stick the patches onto the end of all your cigarettes - anyway I tried it and it worked a treat: I just couldn't light them up.
Put them over your eyes - you won't be able to find your tabs anywhere.
In reply to ThunderCat:
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And there's a bonus - I won't be able to find the booze EITHER!!!!!!!!!!
> Put them over your eyes - you won't be able to find your tabs anywhere.
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And there's a bonus - I won't be able to find the booze EITHER!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Ava Adore:
me too..... quit 5 years ago...used to like a smoke with beer but now the smell makes me want to puke. Drunk or sober.
me too..... quit 5 years ago...used to like a smoke with beer but now the smell makes me want to puke. Drunk or sober.
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Whiskey flake for me - reminds me of my dear departed dad (probably why he departed but different times and all that) I haven't smelt it in years, but I can bring to mind the fragrance at will, and as an ex smoker I find ciggy smoke goppin!
Whiskey flake for me - reminds me of my dear departed dad (probably why he departed but different times and all that) I haven't smelt it in years, but I can bring to mind the fragrance at will, and as an ex smoker I find ciggy smoke goppin!
Post edited at 22:41
In reply to birdie num num: I knew a girl who tried to cut down smoking by smoking only cigars. I took her a coffee in bed one morning, before she even put her specs on her hand was patting the beside table for a packet of Hamlets.
She also tried some drugs that were supposed to mage ciggies taste vile, she said that it took a while but eventually she got to prefer smoking AFTER she'd taken them.
I don't suppose she's with us any more.
She also tried some drugs that were supposed to mage ciggies taste vile, she said that it took a while but eventually she got to prefer smoking AFTER she'd taken them.
I don't suppose she's with us any more.
In reply to mypyrex:
I smoked from my teens 'til my mid twenties. I'm now 35 and a couple of weeks ago at a party, inhaled a cigarette once again (I was very drunk). It tasted, smelt and felt awful and I coughed my guts up. How I could've done that to myself, knowingly, thousands of times over just baffles me.
Keep the good recovery going!
I smoked from my teens 'til my mid twenties. I'm now 35 and a couple of weeks ago at a party, inhaled a cigarette once again (I was very drunk). It tasted, smelt and felt awful and I coughed my guts up. How I could've done that to myself, knowingly, thousands of times over just baffles me.
Keep the good recovery going!
In reply to mypyrex:
I hate being anywhere near people smoking. even a lung full makes me feel I will do myself harm. Im getting worse as I get older- perhaps Im just more conscious about my health. For you, having just finished chemo, it must be especially horrible. hope you are doing well with your recovery
I hate being anywhere near people smoking. even a lung full makes me feel I will do myself harm. Im getting worse as I get older- perhaps Im just more conscious about my health. For you, having just finished chemo, it must be especially horrible. hope you are doing well with your recovery
In reply to mypyrex:
Thankfully I am not in a position to either concur or challenge your post chemo assessment of smoking. I hope your recovery continues.
I find myself conflicted on the smell of smoking related activity.
I miss the fuggy atmosphere in boozer on a wet winter's night but I do not miss the stench the following day attached to me and the clothes I have worn.
The smell of a freshly lit cigarette or a joint on a summer's breeze has me harking back to my youth and makes me want to get a bit reckless once again.
Enjoying a cigar in good company is a rare (annual, perhaps) pleasure but the smell is appalling.
Pipe smoke is a wonderful aromatic thing that makes think my old granddad might be just around the next turn with oil under his nails and tools in his hands.
The world is a better place without it but the smells leave me with very strong emotions.
Thankfully I am not in a position to either concur or challenge your post chemo assessment of smoking. I hope your recovery continues.
I find myself conflicted on the smell of smoking related activity.
I miss the fuggy atmosphere in boozer on a wet winter's night but I do not miss the stench the following day attached to me and the clothes I have worn.
The smell of a freshly lit cigarette or a joint on a summer's breeze has me harking back to my youth and makes me want to get a bit reckless once again.
Enjoying a cigar in good company is a rare (annual, perhaps) pleasure but the smell is appalling.
Pipe smoke is a wonderful aromatic thing that makes think my old granddad might be just around the next turn with oil under his nails and tools in his hands.
The world is a better place without it but the smells leave me with very strong emotions.
In reply to TMM:
its strange, but cigars don't bother me too much- and I am very anti cigarettes. maybe, like you, it leaves me with emotions. my dad had cigars once a year (at Christmas) and the smell always brings back good memories.
its strange, but cigars don't bother me too much- and I am very anti cigarettes. maybe, like you, it leaves me with emotions. my dad had cigars once a year (at Christmas) and the smell always brings back good memories.
In reply to mypyrex:
Yes, I have travelled the same road as you. I detest walking behind people who are smoking, it annoys me intensely. I also remember post surgery in the hospital, there was an outside roof garden next to my ward where other cardiothoracic patients would smoke in my presence. I once voiced my disbelief to one of them, he apologised and carried on smoking...
Hats off to you for getting thru the chemo, especially if you had to experience cisplatin. I wish you well with your recovery. If you would ever like to talk about any part of your cancer journey please PM me and I will reply as soon as I can.
Yes, I have travelled the same road as you. I detest walking behind people who are smoking, it annoys me intensely. I also remember post surgery in the hospital, there was an outside roof garden next to my ward where other cardiothoracic patients would smoke in my presence. I once voiced my disbelief to one of them, he apologised and carried on smoking...
Hats off to you for getting thru the chemo, especially if you had to experience cisplatin. I wish you well with your recovery. If you would ever like to talk about any part of your cancer journey please PM me and I will reply as soon as I can.
In reply to Iainhw: Well, that should give you pause for thought. Maybe you should reconsider the scenario with the assumption that the patient was neither stupid or ignorant and take a different tack: 'why would an intelligent and informed person take such risks?'
The answer to that might inform anti-smoking campaigns, and make them more effective, rather better than assuming that the person is simply stupid or ignorant.
The answer to that might inform anti-smoking campaigns, and make them more effective, rather better than assuming that the person is simply stupid or ignorant.
In reply to all:
Oh no, secondhand smoke! The scourge of mankind, worse than Hitler, worse than Stalin! The other day I was on top of Crib Goch and someone in London lit up a cigarette. Vast brown poisonous clouds formed and covered the sun. 80 peregrine falcons were instantly poisoned and crashed into Lliwedd. Within an hour 80,000 innocent orphans were admitted into Welsh hospitals with lung disease. Finally the moon went out of orbit and crashed into the sun.
Oh no, secondhand smoke! The scourge of mankind, worse than Hitler, worse than Stalin! The other day I was on top of Crib Goch and someone in London lit up a cigarette. Vast brown poisonous clouds formed and covered the sun. 80 peregrine falcons were instantly poisoned and crashed into Lliwedd. Within an hour 80,000 innocent orphans were admitted into Welsh hospitals with lung disease. Finally the moon went out of orbit and crashed into the sun.
In reply to abseil:
You must have been so upset it altered your ability to understand the gist of this thread.
You must have been so upset it altered your ability to understand the gist of this thread.
Post edited at 08:03
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:
Oh but no, dear Dubya, thanks for your reply, but there are 2 mistakes in your short reply! I'm not and wasn't the least bit upset! And my ability to understand the gist of the thread was not altered!
> (In reply to abseil) You must have been so upset it altered your ability to understand the gist of this thread.
Oh but no, dear Dubya, thanks for your reply, but there are 2 mistakes in your short reply! I'm not and wasn't the least bit upset! And my ability to understand the gist of the thread was not altered!
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
I don't think my fellow patient was ignorant or stupid, he was simply addicted to nicotine.
I don't think my fellow patient was ignorant or stupid, he was simply addicted to nicotine.
In reply to Iainhw:
' I once voiced my disbelief to one of them, he apologised and carried on smoking...'
I'm not sure that was the tone of your OP ... and I'm not sure that there's anything simple about addiction.
Cigarettes and cigars are a fiendishly ingenious way of delivering a range of hits. It's really not so hard to understand if you're willing to try.
' I once voiced my disbelief to one of them, he apologised and carried on smoking...'
I'm not sure that was the tone of your OP ... and I'm not sure that there's anything simple about addiction.
Cigarettes and cigars are a fiendishly ingenious way of delivering a range of hits. It's really not so hard to understand if you're willing to try.
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Wow. Your responses to my postings astound me. I answer to the OP to show some form of support to someone who doesn’t like second hand tobacco smoke following a course of chemo. There probably aren’t many people on this board, if any, who feel the same way and being someone who has had chemo for lung cancer and dislikes second hand smoke I reply, and recount another story in the same topic of a galling experience I had with second hand smoke on hospital premises following major lung surgery.
In doing so you go on to falsely accuse me of stating the other patient was stupid or ignorant and propose that I pause for thought. Bizarre. After my second post, you question, what was actually your assumption of, the tone of my first post. There was no intended tone to my first post. I was recounting an incident that happened to be in line with original OP, unlike anything else that you have posted on this thread.
As well as your misguided assumptions on how I judge the other patient I also take offence at how you think I have no understanding of addiction and condescendingly suggest I could improve my understanding if I tried?! Thanks for the advice.
I really don’t understand why you are following this thread and then post on it in a confrontational manner off topic to the original OP? I can only assume you’re bored and actively looking for confrontation.
Wow. Your responses to my postings astound me. I answer to the OP to show some form of support to someone who doesn’t like second hand tobacco smoke following a course of chemo. There probably aren’t many people on this board, if any, who feel the same way and being someone who has had chemo for lung cancer and dislikes second hand smoke I reply, and recount another story in the same topic of a galling experience I had with second hand smoke on hospital premises following major lung surgery.
In doing so you go on to falsely accuse me of stating the other patient was stupid or ignorant and propose that I pause for thought. Bizarre. After my second post, you question, what was actually your assumption of, the tone of my first post. There was no intended tone to my first post. I was recounting an incident that happened to be in line with original OP, unlike anything else that you have posted on this thread.
As well as your misguided assumptions on how I judge the other patient I also take offence at how you think I have no understanding of addiction and condescendingly suggest I could improve my understanding if I tried?! Thanks for the advice.
I really don’t understand why you are following this thread and then post on it in a confrontational manner off topic to the original OP? I can only assume you’re bored and actively looking for confrontation.
In reply to Iainhw: Right, lets get something straight. I think that smoking is one of the greatest curses that we have inflicted on ourselves; it's particularly tragic that 60 - 70 years on from the clearest evidence of harm, that it is increasingly restricted to the less well off, who have enough to deal with is as it is.
A constant theme - which I picked up from the OP and your posts - is 'We can't understand it, we don't do something that might kill us so why do they?' This bafflement, which often has a definite tinge of superiority, is reflected in the NHS anti-smoking schemes, which on the whole seem pretty ineffective at stopping the key demographic - young working class kids - from taking it up.
Your original post used the word 'disbelief' - which to me means you couldn't believe that ... what exactly? Your patient knew why he had had to have surgery; he almost certainly knew the risks he had been running for years. (We certainly knew them when I was a smoker in university in the 70s; that was part of the appeal. Adverts that tell teenagers about the risks they are running completely miss the point - teenagers LIKE running risks.) There would be all sorts of rational calculi he could make for continuing, and a couple of huge incentives: it is an addiction, and it IS massively pleasurable. He'd be wrong, but to me, it's not a hard thing to understand.
A constant theme - which I picked up from the OP and your posts - is 'We can't understand it, we don't do something that might kill us so why do they?' This bafflement, which often has a definite tinge of superiority, is reflected in the NHS anti-smoking schemes, which on the whole seem pretty ineffective at stopping the key demographic - young working class kids - from taking it up.
Your original post used the word 'disbelief' - which to me means you couldn't believe that ... what exactly? Your patient knew why he had had to have surgery; he almost certainly knew the risks he had been running for years. (We certainly knew them when I was a smoker in university in the 70s; that was part of the appeal. Adverts that tell teenagers about the risks they are running completely miss the point - teenagers LIKE running risks.) There would be all sorts of rational calculi he could make for continuing, and a couple of huge incentives: it is an addiction, and it IS massively pleasurable. He'd be wrong, but to me, it's not a hard thing to understand.
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
I read the context of that post very differently. Perhaps it is not disbelief that the patient is smoking, but disbelief that they were allowing smoke to drift into a hospital ward where immunocompromised patients were recovering from major surgery. The last thing those patients need is to inhale an irritant inducing nausea or coughing fits. The often used UKC defence of "well it's no worse than exhaust smoke in cities" is missing the point by a mile - it's not about incremental health effects, it's about the irritant effects of smoke on other patients. The OP actually made this quite clear.
So not disbelief at the level to which addiction holds some people hostage, but disbelief that they could be so utterly thoughtless to the needs of other hospital patients.
I imagine the subset of patients who are well enough to walk, wheel or be pushed hundreds of meters to the hospital main entrance, yet are unable to go another 15 meters from the building, is vanishingly small. In that case, the problem is not one of addiction but simple thoughtlessness with respect others.
> Your original post used the word 'disbelief'
I read the context of that post very differently. Perhaps it is not disbelief that the patient is smoking, but disbelief that they were allowing smoke to drift into a hospital ward where immunocompromised patients were recovering from major surgery. The last thing those patients need is to inhale an irritant inducing nausea or coughing fits. The often used UKC defence of "well it's no worse than exhaust smoke in cities" is missing the point by a mile - it's not about incremental health effects, it's about the irritant effects of smoke on other patients. The OP actually made this quite clear.
So not disbelief at the level to which addiction holds some people hostage, but disbelief that they could be so utterly thoughtless to the needs of other hospital patients.
I imagine the subset of patients who are well enough to walk, wheel or be pushed hundreds of meters to the hospital main entrance, yet are unable to go another 15 meters from the building, is vanishingly small. In that case, the problem is not one of addiction but simple thoughtlessness with respect others.
Post edited at 11:28
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
I always find the 'health risk' aspect of anti-smoking amusing when trotted out by people who participate in high risk activities like climbing
Out of all the friends I've lost to the mountains, most of them were non smokers - never underestimate the advantages of a ciggy when you're in extremis!
I do however understand peoples dislike of second hand fag smoke - and I'm a smoker
I always find the 'health risk' aspect of anti-smoking amusing when trotted out by people who participate in high risk activities like climbing
Out of all the friends I've lost to the mountains, most of them were non smokers - never underestimate the advantages of a ciggy when you're in extremis!
I do however understand peoples dislike of second hand fag smoke - and I'm a smoker
In reply to mypyrex:
I saw a news report the other day about ISIS publicly flogging smokers.
So even ISIS are not all bad.
I saw a news report the other day about ISIS publicly flogging smokers.
So even ISIS are not all bad.
In reply to Jim Fraser:
Quite right too
> I saw a news report the other day about ISIS publicly flogging smokers.
Quite right too
In reply to Jim Fraser:
Are you sure it wasn't publicly flogging smokes? You need to filter the news carefully...
> I saw a news report the other day about ISIS publicly flogging smokers.
Are you sure it wasn't publicly flogging smokes? You need to filter the news carefully...
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Seven years ago, a few days after I'd had major lung surgery, on a hospital roof garden next to my ward (cardiothoracic), a fellow patient (probably pre or post heart related surgery), chooses to smoke a cigarette in my company. I voiced my disbelief to him....
In that situation is it really so hard to understand my disbelief..... winter tree sums up it up well in his post. I hope you can understand it.
Recounting this incident, you accuse me of stating that the other patient was ignorant and stupid. You accuse me of having a superiority complex because you think I don't understand his behaviour. You condescendingly suggest I give it some thought.
I'm happy to say i now see your posts in comical light. What's next?
Seven years ago, a few days after I'd had major lung surgery, on a hospital roof garden next to my ward (cardiothoracic), a fellow patient (probably pre or post heart related surgery), chooses to smoke a cigarette in my company. I voiced my disbelief to him....
In that situation is it really so hard to understand my disbelief..... winter tree sums up it up well in his post. I hope you can understand it.
Recounting this incident, you accuse me of stating that the other patient was ignorant and stupid. You accuse me of having a superiority complex because you think I don't understand his behaviour. You condescendingly suggest I give it some thought.
I'm happy to say i now see your posts in comical light. What's next?
In reply to Iainhw:
Whatever. I re-read your post in the light of Wintertree's interpretation; still can't see it myself. I still don't know what you were disbelieving. Patient has life threatening, stressful, traumatic experience; he reaches for a legally available drug which he knows will give him huge pleasure and relief, that is unlikely to directly affect the outcome in the shot term; and consumes it in a designated place.
I'm glad you find it amusing, it wasn't intended to be.
Whatever. I re-read your post in the light of Wintertree's interpretation; still can't see it myself. I still don't know what you were disbelieving. Patient has life threatening, stressful, traumatic experience; he reaches for a legally available drug which he knows will give him huge pleasure and relief, that is unlikely to directly affect the outcome in the shot term; and consumes it in a designated place.
I'm glad you find it amusing, it wasn't intended to be.
In reply to wintertree:
Indeed. Same as the people who can't bring themselves to smoke more than 3 inches away from the open pub door, even on a nice day.
> So not disbelief at the level to which addiction holds some people hostage, but disbelief that they could be so utterly thoughtless to the needs of other hospital patients.
Indeed. Same as the people who can't bring themselves to smoke more than 3 inches away from the open pub door, even on a nice day.
In reply to Chris Harris:
Likewise at shopping centres. There's one in Colwyn Bay, Bay View, which I never use unless I have to. I don't know how often they empty the dog-end bins but even when there's nobody there actually smoking the stench is vile.
>
> Indeed. Same as the people who can't bring themselves to smoke more than 3 inches away from the open pub door, even on a nice day.
Likewise at shopping centres. There's one in Colwyn Bay, Bay View, which I never use unless I have to. I don't know how often they empty the dog-end bins but even when there's nobody there actually smoking the stench is vile.
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