UKC

Right before anybody starts no im not trolling im asking a genuine question.

Driving along and join a few vehicles behind a slower moving van, I leave a safe stopping distance between me and the next car for the speed we are travelling. A motorcyclist starts overtaking but has to pull in as there isnt enough space to overtake, meaning now hes really close to me and the car infront. Ive been waiting in line so we can safely overtake the van, what should I do, slow down to leave a safe braking distance again or just ignore the queue jumping motorbike and stay uncomfortably close?
Logic tells me to drop back, but then why should I be moved further back because hes being inconsiderate and impatient?

What do UKCers think?
Generally I dont like motorcyclists as they often disobey most rules of the road, but then I spend a lot of time driving so encounter this at least once a week.

In reply to ow arm:

It's galling, but drop back to a safe braking distance. There's no other safe option despite being in the 'right'. Once he's repeated the manouver with the next car you can resume your position a safe braking distance behind the car in front.

In reply to ow arm:

Irrelevant of how you actually feel about the biker, imagine how you would feel if you didn't back off and the van suddenly braked.. you would end up crushing the biker between your vehicle and the van.. and you would be done for driving too close. Not a scenario you want to be in so best keep calm and back away from bikers.. =)

In reply to ow arm: Slow down and leave more space between your car and the motorcycle. The motorcyclist has every right to overtake.I cant see the problem.

In reply to ow arm:


Mmm. Tricky one. I often wonder who would be in the wrong if a car pulled in front too close and you ran in the back of them on the motorway?
Personally, I would back off as I wouldn't want the biker on my conscience.
Annoying, yes, worth a collision , no.
How long do you think it will be before insurance companies demand front and rear cameras in vehicle?

In reply to ow arm:

Not just logic tells you to drop back, the highway code does, if it was a car you wouldn't need to think about it, you'd automatically (I'd assume) drop back to your normal 2 second or so following distance.

In reply to ow arm:

As Digby says. I'm not sure why, but I always give bikers the benefit. They never hold me up in the long run, so why not let them in for a short while. Now if it was another car trying the same manoeuvre...

In reply to Chris Ridgers:


Would you, in a car, overtake if there wasnt space to do so?

In reply to Skol:

I for one welcome the day that cameras are fitted as standard in cars, might even (wishful thinking) bring down insurance costs

In reply to ow arm: The motorcyclist obviously misjudged the amount of space in front or the speed of the oncoming traffic. people make mistakes.

In reply to ow arm:

Me too. There's so many drivers that wind me up, and you can do sod all about it.

In reply to ow arm:


I think I might know the answer to that question , but let Chris confirm that he would.

( and that he would expect you to compliantly drop back so that he could get on with his overtaking, and get where HE wants to go quicker than everyone else)

But I'm purely guessing, that based on his profile

Assuming you were traveling with at least the minimum 2 second gap (see below) & the motorcycle pulled in exactly in the middle of that gap. All you have to do is drop back by one second to regain your two second gap. Is that really that much of an imposition?

In reality the motorcyclist would be nearer to the front car & you would drop back by less than a second. All it means is you will join the next snarl up a second later

If one second is that important to you that you would risk yours & other road users lives then you prob should not be driving with that state of mind.

Relax, allow more time for your journeys & enjoy the journey & the rest of your life.


The 2 second rule gives you just the absolute minimum gap for you to see react & stop before hitting the vehicle in front in normal conditions, assuming that they dont come to a dead stop from hitting something that they did not see IE if they dont apply the brakes or apply them late or have left too small a gap & hit a stationary lorry or someone pulls out on them from a junction with just a 2 second gap then you will hit them too.

In reply to ow arm:


I would have no choice but to back off to 2 seconds from the back of the biker. Legally and (to me) morally you're up s--t creek if you hit someone in front of you, regardless of their unrelated actions before whatever freak circumstance may precipitate you hitting them.

Also, you're not being moved back, you're just moving forwards at a slightly reduced speed for a few seconds whilst the gap opens back out. If you're on the ball, hopefully you've spotted that the biker has done something stupid and you've already backed off the throttle whilst they're hanging out...

Now there's a raised chance that another motorist behind you thinks you'er a pussy and is going to do the same to you. Then you have to back off again. You can also have my gratitude for following the "piss or get off the pot rule" and not being one of the total berks who sits right behind a slow moving vehicle forcing other motorists to either overtake both or neither, severely limiting ones ability to safely advance up a queue.

Just be grateful this isn't some monster 5 lane highway in the USA where if you leave a 2 second gap, cars will consistently merge into it from lanes both sides of you under the impression they're going to get ahead.

In reply to ow arm:

It's up to you to leave a safe distance between you and the vehicle in front of you. while annoying when people squeeze in to gain on the queue, it's going to happen. just suck it up and drop back. Not worth getting worked up over.

In reply to ow arm:


There was room to overtake you. He's allowed to work his way up the queue.

In reply to ow arm:

Drop back, because it is more important to be defensive than assertive.

Neil

In reply to ow arm:

In reality the biker doesn't really take up your braking distance at all,because if he is queue hopping he'll only just have eased back onto the left lane, before moving off again next opportunity.
He will rarely be actually in between you and the vehicle in front.

In reply to ow arm:

In what way do you think you've moved back?

In reply to ow arm:

Don't do anything. 99.9% of the time the bike is just que hopping and by the time you have slowed down slightly and opened the gap he will be gone.
If he or any vehicle stayed there for longer than a few seconds then slow slightly.
We bikers do it all the time. There is a long line of traffic normally well below the limit so we bob in and out of said line until we pass the inevitable farmer/caravan/Sunday driver At the front and carry on.
I know it can be frustrating, especially if you miss your only chance to overtake but if you were indicating that you were going to overtake then the biker would hang back and you could go anyway.
No biker will overtake a car that is indicating becausewe assume that you will pull out/turn right without looking and kill us.

In reply to ow arm:

She is not being inconsiderate, why should she be held up just because you are in your larger vehicle? Makes no difference to your journey time.

In reply to ow arm:

A bit of really helpful advice I read on this very board for dealing with impatient road users:

Give them the benefit of the doubt. Assume they've got an injured passenger in the car with them or, in the case of a motorcyclist, that their mother is dying in hospital and they're desperate to see here. Accommodate them as best you can, there's nothing to be gained from harrying them.

It's changed my motorway driving style for the better.

In reply to ow arm:


Yes, you should back off and make space


Go with the logic, it'll keep you and the biker safer than getting pissy about it, he'll be gone again in a moment and it'll have cost you next to no journey time. It's not even worth a second thought, just ease off the throttle for a few seconds and relax.


You drive a lot yet have to ask this? Odd.

jk

In reply to ow arm:

Aye thanks everyone for confirming what I really already knew to be the answer. Its so easy to get worked up about stupid things, I dont know why but driving just does that for me.

I think we can safely say this thread is resolved
Ta

In reply to ow arm:


But there is space, he got past you safely, he's going past the queue one or two cars at a time which is perfectly reasonable and normal.

You could do the same thing if your car were quick enough and you were prone to that kind of silly stressful driving.

jk

In reply to Chris Ridgers:


I don't agree with you. In a situation like this everyone has been forced to slow down whilst they wait their turn to overtake. The motorcyclist is clearly in the wrong for not reading the situation and waiting their turn to overtake like everyone else.

In reply to ow arm:

I believe this is all covered in the highway code.

In reply to Trangia:


The biker can take 'his turn' much more readily than someone in a car, they need a smaller window of opportunity to pass safely. Also not everyone in a slow moving crocodile of cars is sat itching to get ahead, many will just sit knowing it'll clear soon enough and it's not worth the hassle.

It's just not worth getting stressed about, relax your right foot for a few seconds and that's it, done, space made and stress level reduced.

jk

In reply to Trevers:


My Mum always says if someone if that keen to get past you, let them go - as you say, they might be being a complete muppet, but it's always possible their wife's gone into labour, or something.

In reply to Trangia:


So you're stuck behind 2 HGVs with a clear gap between them. You see you have ample space to safely overtake the first HGV, but don't because it's his 'turn' to overtake the HGV in front of him, even though he hasn't got the speed or overtaking distance to do so safely? That seems odd.

If I'm in a queue of slow moving vehicles in my car and I have ample space to safely overtake the vehicle in front, (who seems to have no interest in Overtaking), are you saying I can't because it's not my 'turn'? I don't recall that being in the highway code.

In reply to ow arm:

There was space the bike overtook you.

In reply to Trangia:

There is no turn to overtake you either can or you can't and the bike is almost certainly going to get his chance before you do. The bike took his chance to overtake and get in front of the OP using the natural advantages of his vehicle to do so (smaller with, presumably, better acceleration).

In reply to Ridge:

That's not the scenario the OP described, where it clearly states that the OP had been "waiting in line so that we can safely overtake the van"

What I am saying that if you come up on a queue in which everyone is waiting their turn to overtsake, you should take your turn like everyone else. The acceleration capabilities of the various vehicles in the queue will differ, but that doesn't mean because you believe you have better acceleration than a vehicle awaiting it's turn in front you have the right to barge through. It's inconsiderate and potentially dangerous because they are more likely to be looking ahead to judge whether they have an overtaking window than nessessarily checking their mirrors for an a pushy idiot coming up behind.

I have a car with above average acceleration, but I would be patient until those in front had overtaken. jkarren is right, it's not worth getting stressed about. It's just common courtesy to wait.

Someone ahead of you with no intention of ovetaking is a different matter, but that wasn't the scenario presented by the OP

In reply to ow arm:

Would you, in a car, overtake if there wasnt space to do so?

If my car physically wouldn't safely fit into the gap then no. However, if there is a 'normal' gap, then yes I would. All the cars involved, should then adjust their distances accordingly.
If I'm being similarly overtaken (by car or bike), I'll slightly ease off my speed and move slightly to the left to facilitate the manoeuvre.

In reply to ow arm:

Thanks everyone for sharing your opinions and experiences, everyone seems fairly unanimous here so lets call this thread



CLOSED

In reply to Chris Ridgers:


Agreed.

In reply to Trangia:

How do you know which cars are waiting to overtake?

I've seen plenty of near misses where cars have pulled out from the middle of the line, right in front of cars overtaking from the rear of the line. It's always a tricky thing to attempt. The motorcyclist is taking a risk that none of the cars decides to overtake at the same time.

In reply to ow arm:
Had a bellyful of this one on the A9 in the de facto 40 limited sections (on single carriageway bits trucks are on a 40 limit and with the av speed cameras that's what they'll all be doing from now on). Sunday's Harley event meant bandana bozo elbowing his way through the traffic, blind bends and all. Every time he pulled back in there was a forest of brake lights on display from folk having to make space. Pain in the ***e.
And why can't they let the trucks do 55 so that the road can become bearable again?

Rant now over....

In reply to colinakmc:

Because the national speed limit for 7.5T+ is 40mph on a single carriageway.

In reply to DancingOnRock:

I think that was his point.

In reply to DancingOnRock:



A wise road user will join the back of a line of slow moving vehicles and assess the situation rather than diving at the first overtaking opportunity in order to move themselves up the queue.

Sadly when you see a bike coming up in your mirrors you can usually be certain that they aren't going to hesitate long enough to weigh up the situation before they assert their perceived right to "queue hop".

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:


I think people think the speed limit for trucks is higher. The reason they've dropped the speed limit for cars and bikes on that section is presumably because lots of lorries use it and car drivers are presumably getting frustrated because they're allowed to go 60 but keep getting stuck behind lorries. Simple psychology. Most car drivers will now just sit patiently behind the lorries on those sections of road as it's now not the lorries holding them back.

In reply to ow arm:

It scares me that there are people on the road who actually have to ask these sorts of questions.

Are you honestly saying that you'd consciously do something that put another road user at greater risk simply out of principle?

Take your foot off the accelerator for a second and sit back happy in the knowledge that you're doing your bit to make sure everyone gets home safely tonight.