UKC

I train almost exclusively at the bouldering wall and was curious to know others are generally sore the day(s) after a bouldering session. Reason I am asking is that I almost sure I am not pushing hard enough (and hence not progressive as fast) - I am only basing this on the fact that whenever I try something new (eg harder grade, different style problem or training like campusing etc) I am always sore for the next few days (shoulders, forearms etc depending).

Is muscle soreness a good indicator of effective training and hence progress or do you think one can actually train effectively and get stronger without necessarily feeling a lot of soreness after climbing sessions?

Ta

In reply to Simos:

Tricky to answer, as there's different kinds of soreness; DOMS, caused by micro-tissue damage - generally a sign of muscles repairing and coming back stronger (rough description!), or there's soreness caused by injury of over-exerting/tweaking/stretching limbs...

How fast are you progressing, and how fast do you think you should be progressing?

In reply to Simos: When I started training semi-seriously (bouldering 3x week plus a routes session, lots of campus & fingerboard training, instead of just 1-2 routes sessions per week), I was really sore for the first few months, but over time that's diminished massively, and it's now rare that I feel sore at all the next day, even after a really hard session.

I'm probably not pushing myself as hard - relatively - as I was to start with, but as your muscles get used to being pushed they should recover quicker, and thus you'll be less sore.

In reply to Simos:

I found nutrition is rather important (might be placebo as well!). I might feel sore after a good climbing session, though it usually happens if I am out of my normal schedule (lets say haven't been climbed for 4-5 days and try something really hard).

I feel sore more often after bouldering rather than leading.

In reply to Simos: I agree with PPP, my DOMS depends massively on what I manage to eat shortly after a session. If I get a small recovery bar (50g bar, 25g of protein in it) straight after my session and then a big bowl of porridge when I get home, waking up the next day can be a lot less painful.

Like you say though, when you get the most aches the next day is when you shock your body into trying something new, as weak muscles you haven't used before all of a sudden have to work very hard! But this is the way to get stronger - continually changing things up so your body has to adapt in a positive way. As mentioned above, happens by to micro-tissue damage (little tears in muscle tissue) which supposedly repairs itself, making it stronger than before - leading to DOMS (delayed onset of muscle soreness - I think...)

Obviously you have to be careful these little tears don't become big tears, so in order for them to repair, don't overdo it when you try new things, give yourself time to recover after particularly bad DOMS, and eat lots of carbs and protein post-session. Not too much - got to stay light too! Lots of things to think about anyway.

So basically, to get strong some post-session soreness is necessary, and the best way to do that is by trying new things, and working your weaknesses.

In reply to Simos:

I find I can only do steep bouldering multiple times a week for a few weeks, then my elbows start to hurt and I have to shift my training emphasis for a while

In reply to Simos:

While DOMS is a welcome sign to most people it is actually largely irrelevant in terms of gain/training.

Initially DOMS will be more prevalent after exercise but as your body adapts it lessens. This doesn't mean you aren't getting fitter if you don't feel DOMS. I used to get no DOMS after a heavy gym day of 220kg max dead lifts but I know that now I'd be hurting after 60kg! Only because I have been away from it a while.

I'm with Stevie989 on this. In my experience bad DOMS is usually a sign off stepping up the load too fast.

Yes, you need to shock your system; but its better to taper in a completely new type of workout over 2 or 3 sessions in my understanding. E.g. If you go and do 5 maximal sets of squats (or campusing or pull-ups) after not doing any for 6m => Doms for sure. Better would be to built up to this by doing 2, 3,4,5 sets over 4 sessions, and even then another couple of sessions stepping up the intensity of the 5 sets. Don't take the progressive out of "progressive overload"!

In addition to food, warming down for 5-10 minutes is important, to reduce Doms.

Back to your question ... i believe modern thinking is to stop strong but give 100% at a high intensity. I.e. less work but higher quality. At least to get strong (endurance is the opposite). So the key criteria is "could you have tried harder?" - to which only you know the answer

In reply to Simos:

Stating the obvious but surely performance is a better indicator of effective training? Maybe you need to find a test of power or whatever rather than inferring that you were training hard by how tired you feel afterwards, which is influenced by so may other external factors?

Isn't DOMS supposed to be linked to eccentric contraction more than just pulling(certainly seems so for me). If so you might not get it just from pulling hard?

You are gonna get DOMS from the new exercise though('cos its a new exercise), but it will reduce over time if you repeat that exercise. You might need to do repeated bouts (i.e. back to back days at the wall) to get into DOMS again...

In reply to AlanLittle:

Yes I am the same, suffered a lot of tendonitis etc but I am referring to muscle soreness as opposed to tendon inflammation - would definitely not be aiming or that

In reply to Durbs:

Lately I definitely hit a wall in terms of progress, if anything I regressed!

In reply to Simos:


Change what you're doing.

Also there's generally far too much emphasis placed on getting strong for bouldering. You'll make much quicker progress by getting more efficient and making full use of what strength you already have. You'd be surprised how weak you can get away with being if you can bring all of that weakness to bear in a coordinated way

Get good and it's the gift that keeps giving as you get stronger. Get strong and you'll just develop a sloppy style that leaves you stuck on a mid grade plateau where further strength gains are harder to make and generally pretty futile anyway.

As Pete said, progress is the best measure of progress, set achievable measurable goals and work toward them. How sore you are really only tells you how sore you are!

jk

In reply to Simos:

Can't say I'm really an expert, but I know Dave MacLeod says that if you need a recovery day from your training sessions then you're training too hard.

In reply to Simos:

what is DOMS?

In reply to kylo-342:


Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness. The scientific term for 'being a bit knackered and stiff the day after exercise'.

In reply to jkarran:
I hear you. I started climbing again after a very long break and I did invest the past year pretty much focusing a lot more on technique - made good progress for me, more than I would have done had I tried to get stronger and ignored technique I think.

I could be wrong of course but my current assessment, based on others I see climbing that climb higher grades, is that my strength seems to be the limiting factor. Anything above V4 seems to have ridiculously small holds lol