UKC

Feel like being a bit positive after reading about how rubbish lots of 3* routes are.
So which are the seriously under-rated routes? My starter is Depression Direct (VS 4b) at Craig y Clipiau. No stars but consensus on UKC is 2* and some say 3*. It is also undergraded - top pitch worth 4c and VS, but that's a minor quibble.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I only seconded this so I don't know if I am allowed to comment (but the leader agrees)

The Rainmaker at Burbage North.

We only got on it because it was early in the day and the rock was cold and this was just catching the first of the sun (I had just "warmed up" leading Knight's Move, unable to feel my fingers in the top half!) and The Rainmaker was surprisingly ace. Sketchy pro but that was not my problem

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Petros (VS 4c) in the Avon Gorge. It's a stunningly varied route. Gets 1 star but has got to be my personal favorite VS in the gorge.

In reply to thom_jenkinson:

The only thing I can remember about Petros is clambering about in a tree wondering what the hell I was doing! I'll never forget it though so it probably deserves better recognition for it's esoterica alone.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

A few contributions:
Thanksgiving HVS 5a - A Pat Littlejohn gem on Upper Jacky's Tor (Gower) exquisite moves up a curving groove, worth at least 2 stars.
Airy Legs VS4c - probably my favourite VS in the Boulder Ruckle (Swanage) but often overlooked, again a solid 2 star outing.
Twinkletoes VS4c - more varied than Lost Horizon, more solid than Kinkyboots, in my opinion the best VS at Baggy Point.
Winter Sun 6a - among the very best pitches at this grade on Portland and certainly worth more than a single star.
Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head E2 5b - A long slabby Shakemantle Quarry classic, technical and sustained, easily worth 2 stars (gets 1 in the guide and none on here).

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Little Arthur (VS 4c) on Lundy (North Light area). Gets a star in the guide but deserves 3. Varied, interesting climbing, a good line, and nicely sustained (contrary to what the guide suggests the top section is no easier than the bottom).

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

That sounds like 2 stars...3 has something special or history. Rockfax 3 maybe.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

What about the Wedge (Just left of Flying Buttress Direct at Stanage) I thought that is possibly worth a star as the start is rather nice, maybe steal some of the undeserved ones from Manchester Buttress?

In reply to Offwidth:

I thought it was better than Integrity and as good as Shamrock, both of which get 3.
But star ratings are all subjective so who's to say, until more people climb it there won't be any consensus.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Which Integrity and Shamrock?

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Golden yardstick

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Did a filthy route last week, "Lilo" at Brimham Rocks. It was easily the best route of the day, probably not to everyone's taste but hey I thought it was superb. Not a star in sight

In reply to climber34neil:

I was thinking more in terms of routes that got no stars in the guide. GY seems to get two anyway.
Great route though, one of my favourites when I lived nearby. Happy days!

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


I'd say a lot of one star routes at Lundy are far more epic and memorable than many three star classics elsewhere. Puffins' Parade was another great 1 star VS I remember.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Jubilee Climb on Dinas Mot. A completely uninspiring name hides a route with a brilliant upper section, on that same type of rock as Gardd and Nexus.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

North York moors routes, they need climbing!

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Andromeda on High Tor - dismissed as a poor eliminate in the Rockfax and given no stars. It's actually mostly independent and has plenty of good climbing. Deserves a star on High Tor and would be two stars on most other crags. It's just that the limelight is stolen by the brilliance of Darius next door.

In reply to Rog Wilko:


GY is a great short pitch stuck in a lovely position with a scruffy start and finish. Two stars just right.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

There's a Gary Gibson route I always bang on about at the busiest bit of Stanage called Providence. Tiny crimps up a steep slab, going above good gear. It's a bit eliminate, but once you get going on the slab you're committed and it carries on for a few moves (3? quite long for a grit crux!). It's a cracking little route, hidden in the middle of a load of polished Vdiffs.

In reply to Offwidth:

The ones on Lundy

In reply to Mr. Lee:


True. Even some of the short unstarred stuff on Buddha Buttress would get a star or 2 if transported to the Peak. I've only ever done one bad route there .

In reply to Rog Wilko: If you ever find yourself on the North coast of Scotland, go to Totegan Geos at Strathy Point and do Chicken Run. I think it has a star or maybe 2 but its a classic, well we thought it was.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Rain Drops Keep Falling on My Head at Shakemantle Quarry in the Forest of Dean seemed exceptionally good for a no star route.

In reply to Mr. Lee:

Just revisited that route a couple of weeks ago and managed not to fall off this time! Just as good second time around, slightly flaky rock all that prevents it being the full 3 star experience, well worth 2 stars though.
Was one of my nominations higher up the thread.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Someone I once knew back in the day never tired of extolling the virtues of Hail Bebe on the Vector Buttress at Tremadog. He thought it was a seriously underrated gem. He must have had a penchant for climbing trees. Plus, I think it was the only route at Tremadog he was capable of climbing.

In reply to Ratfeeder:


Not just trees, it has a muddy path as well don't forget!

In reply to Ratfeeder:

I'd agree with your friend, Hail Bebe is an excellent neglected route (though I think the latest guide has spoiled things by giving it a couple of stars)

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Delight Maker at Shepherds Crag. Sandwiched in between Adam and Eve, but much better than either of those routes and much more direct.

Jabberwock on Gable Crag. Why doesn't it get 3 stars?

I know it gets 3 stars in the guide book, but Banzai Pipeline at Greatend Crag, Borrowdale doesn't get the attention it deserves. It's probably the best E1 in Borrowdale and there's not even a path to the crag.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Jubilee Climb has some excellent and varied climbing but it's a bit scrappy between pitches. So I say 2 stars is fair. Top pitch is awesome though.

In reply to shantaram:

Good shout on Delight Maker. I'm going to put in a mention for Parliament at Bamford - a fairly brutal finger crack which is cheeky for the HVS 5b it's given. At least as good and harder than Terraza Crack at Stanage.

In reply to Ratfeeder:

One of the 'classic' underrated routes (if that makes sense) at Tremadog is Grotto (and Grotto Direct). Both excellent routes rather hidden around to the left of Xmas Curry, with tricky starts to the main pitches, often damp for some time after rain, but great and varied climbing on both. Ignore the slightly odd top pitches, the middle pitches are the main event (Grotto is superb value at VS).

In reply to ianstevens:


Oh yeah - I forgot about that. Classic Treemudrock!

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


Oh no! Please tell me you're joking. Two stars? What are things coming to?

In reply to Ratfeeder:

It's the VDiff version of One Step in the Clouds and just as good. Though it's also normal on UKC to include One Step on any over-rated route lists.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


It's nowhere near as good. Not even a little bit. The finish is still (essentially) the same, yes, but the rest is dogshite. Even if you ignore the path, the rest of Hail Bebe is just a series of uninteresting moves up a tree lined corner, and has none of the exposure or interest of One Step (which is still only really 2*).

In reply to ianstevens:

UKC votes:
0 stars = 3
1 star = 20
2 stars = 66
3 stars = 10

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Presumably we're talking about One Step? I thought it had three stars, my memory must have let me down.

In reply to ianstevens:

Those votes are for Hail Bebe. One Step gets mostly 3* I think.

In reply to Skyfall:

I remember Kestrel Cracks (on Bwlch y Moch) as being surprisingly good at VS in the mid-80s .. but maybe it's all overgrown now.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Cenotaph Corner....it's been slagged off so much that its now underrated.

And Extol (just don't tell Bob!)

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Sounds like you'd get on well with the fella I've referred to: 'Ace' we used to call him. Can't remember what his real name was. One Step was my first ever VS lead & I have fond if indistinct memories of it.

In reply to ianstevens:


That's certainly how I remember it!

In reply to Ratfeeder:


Surely not!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1410/810022525_ab8de8fc89_z.jpg

In reply to Bulls Crack:
Yep, embarrassing as it is to confess it, I have actually done Hail Bebe (just the once mind).

ps - hmm, seeing that photo, maybe it is an underrated route after all!

In reply to Ratfeeder:

The main thing people have against Hail Bebe usually seems to be that its easy. Compared to other diffs/ vdiffs I think its pretty good. Sure the trees seem to block any exposure until right at the end and it has an actual path on it... but the pitch or 2 just after is a decent quality wall for the grade and the flake finish is quality. I've heard plenty of people joking about how poor Hail bebe is and then going on and on about the "amazing" flake finish of One step.
I think it compares reasonably well with stuff like corvus at about the same difficulty (which has plenty of paths and flat areas and quite a few rivers) and its better than any peak 3* Vdiff I've done.

Or maybe I need to find better VDiffs. I can think of really amazing routes at every (modest) grade I've done but none below severe.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

For an underrated route I'm going to say capillary crack at gardoms a nice technical finger crack (with just a couple of loose bits) and a fun juggy pull to finish... and it doesn't make it in to rockfax.

The Whittler at Agden too, it looks like absolute overgrown rubbish from below but its actually a really good varied adventurous route on clean rock with a cool wall and steep bits.

Dexterity at Millstone. I think its better than bond street (ok that makes it *a bit* underrated not *seriously* underrated). Its got every good thing bond street has but steeper and without any ledges or awkward niches, just really great flowing climbing. I think it loses a star because its escapable (supposedly) but its far from an obvious escape compared to the really obvious crack.

Also the 2nd pitch of Padme at Stoney and the vdiffs YMCA Crack and Holly Crack at wharnecliffe.

In reply to JHiley:

You make your point well. There aren't so many low grade climbs at Tremadog so I guess we should give those few their due. I only ever did Hail Bebe once but I've done Corvus many times (usually solo) and love it; the first half is actually quite continous and exposed and though there are some big grassy ledges in the upper half, the climbing is still very good. Have you done Bowfell Buttress? I'd recommend that as one of the best VDiffs in Britain. Ignore all the hype about the 'slippery crack' - it's nowhere near as difficult as many make out & I've always thought the pitch above it to be trickier. The recent upgrade to Hard Severe is a major mistake in my opinion.

In reply to Ratfeeder:


Have to agree with that. I found the crack very easy. Steep but massive jugs on the right if I remember rightly. I thought the smooth groove on the 1st or 2nd pitch (I think we ran the 1st 2 pitches from the guidebook together) to be harder.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Angel Pavement (HS 4b)

This. Huge and impressive crag, nicely bold and sustained route, pretty much unspoilt and relatively unknown and unsung.

In reply to Le Chevalier Mal Fet:
I once took a raw beginner up Bowfell Buttress & he had no problem at all with the crack, but he fell off the long stride across the corner on pitch 6!

ps - I agree that the smooth groove (pitch 2) is harder than the so-called crux.

In reply to Ratfeeder:

I haven't done Bowfell Buttress. To be honest I had more fun on Corvus than Hail Bebe, for the setting and adventure value they are incomparable. I think once you get past the tree and the mud the rock bit on Hail Bebe is ok for the grade and the last pitch is probably as good as any at vdiff. In my opinion its underrated considering the slagging off people give it both on here and in the pub.

I do think routes get held to different standards depending on their neighbours. I recently did a 0* non tidal Pembroke VS that would be a 3* 5+ at Kasteli.

In reply to Ratfeeder:

Maybe I was impressed by Hail Bebe as the guidebook of the time made it out to be pretty poor, so my expectations were low. We only did it as there was a queue for One Step. We did One Step afterwards and I thought they were both similar in quality, once you'd made a mental adjustment for the grade difference.

In reply to JHiley:

Yeah. Pembroke is just brilliant - and endless! Like you say, you don't need to pick the starred routes - anything there is good. Have only been once (best of the bunch we did were The Arrow and Rock Idol), but keep meaning to go back.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


Nope - it's clean. I climbed it a couple of years ago. It gets HVS now, which is fair, but the first pitch is a brilliant VS pitch.

In the same vicinity, Clapton's Crack is a bit more of a pain to, but also pretty great.

In reply to Skyfall:


By this I presume you mean it's actually HVS? I've only done the direct, but I thought the crux was the start before the 2 routes diverge, and the gear was a bit shabby at that point too. Great climbing either way.

In reply to shantaram:


It's not actually better than Adam or Eve, but it is ace, and pleasingly direct.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


I now have a strong(ish) desire to do both routes again!