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I've decided it's time to climb an 8a, injuries permitting, before I start getting old, so I want a recommendation of one to try in the Costa Blanca. Robbie Phillips has already recommended me Mediterraneo at Wild Side, but what does he know about climbng 8a? . It needs to be an endurance route rather than powerful and cruxy (because I am very weak). It needs to get lots of shade. It musn't be too popular (because I shall need to lay siege to it). It musn't be prone to seepage in February. And, although this is basically a shameless puerile grade ticking exercise, I'd prefer it to be high quality and, although low in the grade is fine, not so soft touch that the 8a tick is is any doubt.
Suggestions will be much appreciated!
Post edited at 15:23
In reply to Robert Durran:
Not quite Costa Blanca but Lourdes in El Chorro fits the bill! 6 hands off rests!
Not quite Costa Blanca but Lourdes in El Chorro fits the bill! 6 hands off rests!
In reply to Robert Durran:
Ergometria at the Wildside is also worth a look while you're checking out Mediterraneo. It's got a bit of a hard bouldery start into sustained tufa climbing with a few rests thrown in. And it's a three-star classic.
Ergometria at the Wildside is also worth a look while you're checking out Mediterraneo. It's got a bit of a hard bouldery start into sustained tufa climbing with a few rests thrown in. And it's a three-star classic.
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Adam, a bit cheeky but could you tell me the beta for the rests for Lourdes/are they obvious? I'm off out there in a week and am really keen for Lourdes.
Adam, a bit cheeky but could you tell me the beta for the rests for Lourdes/are they obvious? I'm off out there in a week and am really keen for Lourdes.
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Faces south, really popular, seeping tufas, I've never managed to make a knee bar work in my life, flights already booked to Alicante. Apart from that, perfect!
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Not quite Costa Blanca but Lourdes in El Chorro fits the bill! 6 hands off rests!
>
> Not quite Costa Blanca but Lourdes in El Chorro fits the bill! 6 hands off rests!
Faces south, really popular, seeping tufas, I've never managed to make a knee bar work in my life, flights already booked to Alicante. Apart from that, perfect!
In reply to Robert Durran:
Oops. Thats your own fault for having such long legs!
> Faces south, really popular, seeping tufas, I've never managed to make a knee bar work in my life, flights already booked to Alicante. Apart from that, perfect!
Oops. Thats your own fault for having such long legs!
In reply to Stuart S:
Anyone know if the Wild Side routes are likely to have seeping tufas in February?
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Ergometria at the Wildside is also worth a look while you're checking out Mediterraneo.
>
> Ergometria at the Wildside is also worth a look while you're checking out Mediterraneo.
Anyone know if the Wild Side routes are likely to have seeping tufas in February?
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Hardly my fault, but yes, being tall generally does add half a grade ;-(
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> Oops. Thats your own fault for having such long legs!
Hardly my fault, but yes, being tall generally does add half a grade ;-(
In reply to Robert Durran:
No, being a pussy adds a grade Bob!
> Hardly my fault, but yes, being tall generally does add half a grade ;-(
No, being a pussy adds a grade Bob!
In reply to Ian Jones:
That's true; yesterday I was too scared to jump off the top of Ratho with the chain clipped. I can sort that out, but you'll always be able to add two grades for being a short arse
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> No, being a pussy adds a grade Bob!
That's true; yesterday I was too scared to jump off the top of Ratho with the chain clipped. I can sort that out, but you'll always be able to add two grades for being a short arse
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
Aaaarrggh, don't give him that excuse...
> Oops. Thats your own fault for having such long legs!
Aaaarrggh, don't give him that excuse...
In reply to jon:
No, no, I may well need all the excuses I can get.......old, weak, too tall, a pussy.......keep them coming.......
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
> Aaaarrggh, don't give him that excuse...
No, no, I may well need all the excuses I can get.......old, weak, too tall, a pussy.......keep them coming.......
In reply to Robert Durran:
Me and a friend were in a similar position last year. I ended up doing Watermark and he did Mediteranio, both at wildside.
Mediteranio is a pretty good choice, 7a+ to a couple of good rests then ~10m of bouldery climbing to the chains.
Watermark is pumpy to a V4ish crux and a fairly good rest than just keeping it together for the top half or so.
Ergometria is another good option. Bouldery to start and then quite physical and continuous climbing to the top.
Id say Mediteranio is a pretty good option. If you spend a bit of time working out the rests you can get loads back, then it's just about keeping it together for the top. If you're pretty fit then ergometria would be a good option. If you're not too hot on bouldery strength then watermark probably isnt a great choice, the crux is quite physical on smallish holds.
More general points:
Work on your knee bar skills. You can find some mint rests and it can easily make the difference between send and no send.
When we went in december the tufas werent particularly wet. Unless there's particularly heavy rain i wouldnt be overly worried.
Me and a friend were in a similar position last year. I ended up doing Watermark and he did Mediteranio, both at wildside.
Mediteranio is a pretty good choice, 7a+ to a couple of good rests then ~10m of bouldery climbing to the chains.
Watermark is pumpy to a V4ish crux and a fairly good rest than just keeping it together for the top half or so.
Ergometria is another good option. Bouldery to start and then quite physical and continuous climbing to the top.
Id say Mediteranio is a pretty good option. If you spend a bit of time working out the rests you can get loads back, then it's just about keeping it together for the top. If you're pretty fit then ergometria would be a good option. If you're not too hot on bouldery strength then watermark probably isnt a great choice, the crux is quite physical on smallish holds.
More general points:
Work on your knee bar skills. You can find some mint rests and it can easily make the difference between send and no send.
When we went in december the tufas werent particularly wet. Unless there's particularly heavy rain i wouldnt be overly worried.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Would one in Scotland or even Yorkshire not be more convenient?
Does anyone ever climb a new grade away from their local crags?
For myself, I'd expect a new grade to require a prolonged siege and would be looking for something more local I could visit every weekend.
Presumably you figure you've already got the fitness required from other stuff and it's just a matter of applying it to redpointing. Is that your thinking?
Would one in Scotland or even Yorkshire not be more convenient?
Does anyone ever climb a new grade away from their local crags?
For myself, I'd expect a new grade to require a prolonged siege and would be looking for something more local I could visit every weekend.
Presumably you figure you've already got the fitness required from other stuff and it's just a matter of applying it to redpointing. Is that your thinking?
Post edited at 23:30
In reply to JLS:
>Does anyone ever climb a new grade away from their local crags?
have you been to Spain? I'm really pleased if I onsight a 7a+ in the peak, but in spain, turkey and kaly, 7c onsight is no problem. The uk just doesn't have that endurance climbing style. On a uk redpoint, if I can't do the move I won't get up it, on the enduro routes the moves are all doable and its just a matter of time and strategy.
To Robert, I've not tried 8a there, but el bovedon is a good steep crag, that gets no sun, and is dry in rain.
>Does anyone ever climb a new grade away from their local crags?
have you been to Spain? I'm really pleased if I onsight a 7a+ in the peak, but in spain, turkey and kaly, 7c onsight is no problem. The uk just doesn't have that endurance climbing style. On a uk redpoint, if I can't do the move I won't get up it, on the enduro routes the moves are all doable and its just a matter of time and strategy.
To Robert, I've not tried 8a there, but el bovedon is a good steep crag, that gets no sun, and is dry in rain.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Actually Rob, I've just realised what a cunning tactic this is of yours. The pressure on you to succeed now the world is watching you is probably just that extra little incentive you need. Otherwise you'd be free to just slink away and no-one would be any the wiser!
Actually Rob, I've just realised what a cunning tactic this is of yours. The pressure on you to succeed now the world is watching you is probably just that extra little incentive you need. Otherwise you'd be free to just slink away and no-one would be any the wiser!
In reply to Dan Arkle:
...and the grades are softer.
> >Does anyone ever climb a new grade away from their local crags?
> have you been to Spain? I'm really pleased if I onsight a 7a+ in the peak, but in spain, turkey and kaly, 7c onsight is no problem. The uk just doesn't have that endurance climbing style. On a uk redpoint, if I can't do the move I won't get up it, on the enduro routes the moves are all doable and its just a matter of time and strategy.
...and the grades are softer.
In reply to JLS:
The thought of repeated trips through Glasgow to the very dubious delights of Dumbarton (I've considered trying Sufferance) when I could be heading north is just too grim, and the prospect of frequent drives south is even more depressing. The only two routes I've ever redpointed before have been at pretty local Dunkeld; if there were a suitable target within evening cragging distance, I'd go for it. So I'd much rather do "proper" climbing at home and siege a quality 8a on a sunny holiday.
If I can avoid injuries, I reckon I have a chance of being fit enough by February.
> Would one in Scotland or even Yorkshire not be more convenient?
> For myself, I'd expect a new grade to require a prolonged siege and would be looking for something more local I could visit every weekend.
> For myself, I'd expect a new grade to require a prolonged siege and would be looking for something more local I could visit every weekend.
The thought of repeated trips through Glasgow to the very dubious delights of Dumbarton (I've considered trying Sufferance) when I could be heading north is just too grim, and the prospect of frequent drives south is even more depressing. The only two routes I've ever redpointed before have been at pretty local Dunkeld; if there were a suitable target within evening cragging distance, I'd go for it. So I'd much rather do "proper" climbing at home and siege a quality 8a on a sunny holiday.
> Presumably you figure you've already got the fitness required from other stuff and it's just a matter of applying it to redpointing. Is that your thinking?
If I can avoid injuries, I reckon I have a chance of being fit enough by February.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Are you hoping to do it in a week or would you expect to need multiple trips?
Well good luck with it.
I had a quick look at Sufferance but the start is just too hard for me, definately not an endurance route. Your height would make the crux a bit easier but even still there is some horrible rubbish holds before you even get to the crux.
Have you considered Axium at Tunnel Wall as an 8a "local" project?
I've not pulled on the holds so I might be talking rubbish but it looks to be similar in style to the other routes on the wall so could be just what you are after. I hope so, or my long term road map to 8a is seriously flawed.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=85109
Are you hoping to do it in a week or would you expect to need multiple trips?
Well good luck with it.
I had a quick look at Sufferance but the start is just too hard for me, definately not an endurance route. Your height would make the crux a bit easier but even still there is some horrible rubbish holds before you even get to the crux.
Have you considered Axium at Tunnel Wall as an 8a "local" project?
I've not pulled on the holds so I might be talking rubbish but it looks to be similar in style to the other routes on the wall so could be just what you are after. I hope so, or my long term road map to 8a is seriously flawed.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=85109
In reply to Robert Durran:
Have a look at Tarrier; the crux is a wide reach low down that would probably suit your frame. You could leverage your trad experience on the remainder, which is fairly steady but a little run out.
> The thought of repeated trips through Glasgow to the very dubious delights of Dumbarton (I've considered trying Sufferance).
Have a look at Tarrier; the crux is a wide reach low down that would probably suit your frame. You could leverage your trad experience on the remainder, which is fairly steady but a little run out.
In reply to JLS:
I've no idea. I might not be able to do it at all, but if success seemed within reach I would want to go back.
No, I'd probably want a project within evening cragging distance. If I had that sort of fitness during the Scottish summer I don't think I'd want to waste it on mere bolt clipping! Maybe worth considering nonetheless.....
> Are you hoping to do it in a week or would you expect to need multiple trips?
I've no idea. I might not be able to do it at all, but if success seemed within reach I would want to go back.
> Have you considered Axium at Tunnel Wall as an 8a "local" project?
No, I'd probably want a project within evening cragging distance. If I had that sort of fitness during the Scottish summer I don't think I'd want to waste it on mere bolt clipping! Maybe worth considering nonetheless.....
Post edited at 15:47
In reply to gurumed:
Maybe I'll have to go and play on the Dumbarton routes sometime then.....
> Have a look at Tarrier; the crux is a wide reach low down that would probably suit your frame........
Maybe I'll have to go and play on the Dumbarton routes sometime then.....
In reply to Robert Durran:
My laptop is now soaking wet with the tears of joy I`ve just cried at the sight of you and gurumed exchanging e-pleasantries instead of e-barbs. A wondrous thing. Congratulations to the two of you.
My laptop is now soaking wet with the tears of joy I`ve just cried at the sight of you and gurumed exchanging e-pleasantries instead of e-barbs. A wondrous thing. Congratulations to the two of you.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Big Bob, some thoughts for you:
Axiom, Tunnel walls is hard for 8a, not a good choice for a first 8a!
Have you done Silk Purse, Dunkeld recently? its 7c+ in Scotland but in Spain would be solid 8a.
Worth remembering that Malham can be good when dry over the winter.
Spain:
I second Ergometria, the start is not too bad, almost a slab on teenies, fine when cool, massive rest on a ledge then pumpy 7c+ to top.
Surprised no-one has suggested Cabezon de Oro, check out Columneta, big 45m wall climb, soft for 8a but well worth doing anyway.
What about Forada? Plenty of sustained and softish 8as there too, needs to be calm and warm if going up in Feb tho.
Big Bob, some thoughts for you:
Axiom, Tunnel walls is hard for 8a, not a good choice for a first 8a!
Have you done Silk Purse, Dunkeld recently? its 7c+ in Scotland but in Spain would be solid 8a.
Worth remembering that Malham can be good when dry over the winter.
Spain:
I second Ergometria, the start is not too bad, almost a slab on teenies, fine when cool, massive rest on a ledge then pumpy 7c+ to top.
Surprised no-one has suggested Cabezon de Oro, check out Columneta, big 45m wall climb, soft for 8a but well worth doing anyway.
What about Forada? Plenty of sustained and softish 8as there too, needs to be calm and warm if going up in Feb tho.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Actually, if you're flying to Alicante, then just keep driving north to Valencia and go inland a bit to Chulilla, 2&1/2 hours drive.
So many long sustained 8as up walls that I cant begin to list them all. Crags with tufas, technical grooves, crimpy wall climbs up to 50m long. You'll love it!
Add to that, once you get to village, you dont need to drive around to crags and it is the most gorgeous place i ve climbed in Spain. Cheap accomodation can be found too.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/ValenciaOutdoors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jAMcsylo_c&feature=youtu.be
Actually, if you're flying to Alicante, then just keep driving north to Valencia and go inland a bit to Chulilla, 2&1/2 hours drive.
So many long sustained 8as up walls that I cant begin to list them all. Crags with tufas, technical grooves, crimpy wall climbs up to 50m long. You'll love it!
Add to that, once you get to village, you dont need to drive around to crags and it is the most gorgeous place i ve climbed in Spain. Cheap accomodation can be found too.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/ValenciaOutdoors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jAMcsylo_c&feature=youtu.be
In reply to niall mcnair:
>"Axiom, Tunnel walls is hard for 8a, not a good choice for a first 8a!"
Well, if you are only planing on doing one in you life time, you might as well do a hard one.
Didn't you onsight Axiom? Would you say the grade is equally difficult as a redpoint... I mean there's nothing hidden/tricky that makes on sighting particularly difficult? Would you characterise the route as an endurance route or does it come down to very powerful cruxes?
Scotland really does need more 8a's for fit weaklings.
>"Axiom, Tunnel walls is hard for 8a, not a good choice for a first 8a!"
Well, if you are only planing on doing one in you life time, you might as well do a hard one.
Didn't you onsight Axiom? Would you say the grade is equally difficult as a redpoint... I mean there's nothing hidden/tricky that makes on sighting particularly difficult? Would you characterise the route as an endurance route or does it come down to very powerful cruxes?
Scotland really does need more 8a's for fit weaklings.
Post edited at 23:03
In reply to niall mcnair:
Sounds great. Another time......
> Actually, if you're flying to Alicante, then just keep driving north to Valencia and go inland a bit to Chulilla....
Sounds great. Another time......
In reply to niall mcnair:
Yes, but not recently. (It's the last route I redpointed - 14 years ago!). Encouraging about the grade and no excuse not to be fitter now after 10 years at Ratho
Thanks, I'll bear in mind, though the logbook gives Cabezon de Oro 8c+ which might be a tad ambitious for my first 8.
> Have you done Silk Purse, Dunkeld recently? its 7c+ in Scotland but in Spain would be solid 8a.
Yes, but not recently. (It's the last route I redpointed - 14 years ago!). Encouraging about the grade and no excuse not to be fitter now after 10 years at Ratho
> I second Ergometria.........Cabezon de Oro...........What about Forada?
Thanks, I'll bear in mind, though the logbook gives Cabezon de Oro 8c+ which might be a tad ambitious for my first 8.
Post edited at 09:05
In reply to Robert Durran:
The Cabezon is a mountain just north of Alicante, not a route - http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=1687. Sector Deportivo has the big hard tufa routes, including the 8a of Columneta, which I think is what Niall was recommending. It's a mega wall and definitely worth a visit to check out.
The Cabezon is a mountain just north of Alicante, not a route - http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=1687. Sector Deportivo has the big hard tufa routes, including the 8a of Columneta, which I think is what Niall was recommending. It's a mega wall and definitely worth a visit to check out.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Ahem, I did indeed flash Axiom after watching Iain Small very, very carefully on it! Its basically very sustained on tiny sidepulls and technical footmoves for first 10m then an ok rest and another powerful but short section, a good rest then 2nd half is pumpy but straightforward. Its very hard for 8a but *** climbing How Macleod thought this 7c+ when he put it up is unbelievable, it's nearly 8a+ i thought...
I still think you should forget Costa Blanca and head for Chulilla. I have been twice, going back next easter and for the next 10 years probably. The most recent guidebook (2012) is out of date by about 200 routes. There is definitely an 8a there for you, I can start listing them if you want?
If you do insist on staying in Blanca, that overpopulated, smog filled, polished, full of Brits dystopian nightmare etc then get to Cabezon for sure...
Ahem, I did indeed flash Axiom after watching Iain Small very, very carefully on it! Its basically very sustained on tiny sidepulls and technical footmoves for first 10m then an ok rest and another powerful but short section, a good rest then 2nd half is pumpy but straightforward. Its very hard for 8a but *** climbing How Macleod thought this 7c+ when he put it up is unbelievable, it's nearly 8a+ i thought...
I still think you should forget Costa Blanca and head for Chulilla. I have been twice, going back next easter and for the next 10 years probably. The most recent guidebook (2012) is out of date by about 200 routes. There is definitely an 8a there for you, I can start listing them if you want?
If you do insist on staying in Blanca, that overpopulated, smog filled, polished, full of Brits dystopian nightmare etc then get to Cabezon for sure...
In reply to niall mcnair:
>"blah blah... sustained... blah blah... sidepulls... blah... technical foot moves... blah blah... rest... blah blah... short section... blah... good rest... blah blah... straightforward. Its... blah blah... 8a... blah *** climbing.
Sounds easy. I can't see Bob having any trouble with it.
>"blah blah... sustained... blah blah... sidepulls... blah... technical foot moves... blah blah... rest... blah blah... short section... blah... good rest... blah blah... straightforward. Its... blah blah... 8a... blah *** climbing.
Sounds easy. I can't see Bob having any trouble with it.
In reply to niall mcnair:
You are really selling it! Would need to consult the others. Is there a good spread of grades (Need 5+ to 8a!).
Is there a suitable one the same height and angle as the Justice Panel at Ratho?
Ok, shall do so.
> I still think you should forget Costa Blanca and head for Chulilla.
You are really selling it! Would need to consult the others. Is there a good spread of grades (Need 5+ to 8a!).
> There is definitely an 8a there for you.
Is there a suitable one the same height and angle as the Justice Panel at Ratho?
> If you do insist on staying in Blanca, that overpopulated, smog filled, polished, full of Brits dystopian nightmare etc then get to Cabezon for sure...
Ok, shall do so.
Post edited at 01:27
In reply to Robert Durran:
Yes, there is a good spread of grades in Chulilla many crags with 5s, 6s, 7s, and 8s of course. Only trouble might be that most of the 5s are on separate smaller crags around the village whilst the 7s + 8s are clustered on the bigger crags in the gorge. All crags are within 1/2 hour walk of each other tho.
So you want something that is sustained, slightly overhanging and around 30m long?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=218351
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=218354
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=214708
The next 2 routes are absolutely amazing and are must do 8as here. They are both 45m long but have good no-hands rests on them around the 25m mark...
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=214864
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=214865
You can also get high quality but cheap accomodation in the village through the ValenciaOutdoors link above.
Even tho' it will be a 2&1/2 hour drive from Alicante, you will probably save money on petrol compared to Blanca as you wont be driving around during the day. Accomodation is massively cheaper too...
Yes, there is a good spread of grades in Chulilla many crags with 5s, 6s, 7s, and 8s of course. Only trouble might be that most of the 5s are on separate smaller crags around the village whilst the 7s + 8s are clustered on the bigger crags in the gorge. All crags are within 1/2 hour walk of each other tho.
So you want something that is sustained, slightly overhanging and around 30m long?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=218351
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=218354
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=214708
The next 2 routes are absolutely amazing and are must do 8as here. They are both 45m long but have good no-hands rests on them around the 25m mark...
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=214864
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=214865
You can also get high quality but cheap accomodation in the village through the ValenciaOutdoors link above.
Even tho' it will be a 2&1/2 hour drive from Alicante, you will probably save money on petrol compared to Blanca as you wont be driving around during the day. Accomodation is massively cheaper too...
Post edited at 08:03
In reply to niall mcnair:
I'm heading out to Chulilla and was thinking of projecting an 8a too, so I have read your comments with interest. I was looking at the triumvirate of Tequila Sunrise, El Bufa and Moon Safari - how do they compare with the routes you have suggested?
I'm heading out to Chulilla and was thinking of projecting an 8a too, so I have read your comments with interest. I was looking at the triumvirate of Tequila Sunrise, El Bufa and Moon Safari - how do they compare with the routes you have suggested?
Moon Safari 7c, long pleasant wall climbing and weaving around mini tufa systems
El Bufa and Tequila both solid/hard 7c+ but just a bit easier the previous 8as I have mentioned, all worth at least 3* and well worth doing anyway. Both have bouldery sequences and then sustained in upper section.
El Bufa and Tequila both solid/hard 7c+ but just a bit easier the previous 8as I have mentioned, all worth at least 3* and well worth doing anyway. Both have bouldery sequences and then sustained in upper section.
In reply to Robert Durran:
If you fancy a crack at the Dumby routes and need a partner you're welcome to give me a shout. I'm keen to try either Sufferance or Tarrier.
If you fancy a crack at the Dumby routes and need a partner you're welcome to give me a shout. I'm keen to try either Sufferance or Tarrier.
In reply to Robert Durran:
I am now going to Sella for xmas and New Year, so ill be sure to get all the beta for you on the 8a's.
I am now going to Sella for xmas and New Year, so ill be sure to get all the beta for you on the 8a's.
In reply to Robert Durran:
I'd suggest The Magic Flute on Bernia, a nice 7b warm up pitch then the 8a extension. One of the best routes in the Costa Blanca,
I'd suggest The Magic Flute on Bernia, a nice 7b warm up pitch then the 8a extension. One of the best routes in the Costa Blanca,
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
But will you find all the best sequences while onsighting?
> I am now going to Sella for xmas and New Year, so ill be sure to get all the beta for you on the 8a's.
But will you find all the best sequences while onsighting?
1
In reply to Robert Durran:
I only just onsighted the new black 7c+ the other day, think onsighting 8a on rock will be a tad optimistic with the lack of training at the moment!
> But will you find all the best sequences while onsighting?
I only just onsighted the new black 7c+ the other day, think onsighting 8a on rock will be a tad optimistic with the lack of training at the moment!
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