UKC

cam release mechanism

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 paul mitchell 17 Oct 2014
Come on,you Brits! Design a cam release mechanism,so we don't get our classics full of rusting stuck cams.I'm guessing the patent might be worth a few bob.Two pints for the best design.... Mitch
 The Pylon King 17 Oct 2014
In reply to paul mitchell:

Car-jack?

ooops, no, hang on a minute....
 Snot 17 Oct 2014
In reply to paul mitchell:

Angle grinder?
OP paul mitchell 17 Oct 2014
In reply to paul mitchell:
mebbe get a scaled down version of that spoon bender guy?
But seriously,mebbe it can be solved.
Post edited at 21:17
 andrewmc 18 Oct 2014
In reply to paul mitchell:

Double axle cams?
 CurlyStevo 18 Oct 2014
In reply to andrewmcleod:
They still get stuck just less often. I lost a Camalot last year.

 Rick Graham 18 Oct 2014
In reply to paul mitchell:

There was a thread on removing cams a while ago.

One method was to cut the cam lobes a bit with a hacksaw like Mckean suggests.

On my Grit trips I carry to the crag a 600mm length of 12mm round bar bent into an L shape.

Its nicknamed the " Foe" and is very useful for tapping lobes individually or bashing them sideways into a wider part of the crack. As we now have a large box full of spare cams might as well let the secret weapon out of the bag so to speak.
bill briggs1 18 Oct 2014
In reply to Rick

> Its nicknamed the " Foe" and is very useful for tapping lobes individually or bashing them sideways into a wider part of the crack. As we now have a large box full of spare cams might as well let the secret weapon out of the bag so to speak.

Yes , time to let the cat out , I've been using a flat stainless bar around 40 cm long for years to knock them sideways to a wider part of the crack. As of last Sunday the total is 27 cams found and no losses.

 Albachoss 18 Oct 2014
In reply to paul mitchell:

Maybe a set of bolt cutters are long and narrow enough to access most stuck cams, lop the lobes up and thus remove them... Will be fine for those that are long past the point of being re-used, not so good for the fresh ones.
 Bob 19 Oct 2014
In reply to paul mitchell:

I was shown a technique in the mid 1980s by an American climber that requires nothing more than a couple of wires on which you can slide the nut up and down, a couple of crabs, a sling and a hammer. It only works on those cams where the stem is sticking out of the rock but I suppose a length of bar to act as an extension might work. Also you do need to be on a rope to do this.

The technique is to clip the two wires to the sling then slide back the nuts so that you can loop the end of the wires over the trigger bar, one on each side. Cinch up the nuts to the trigger bar. Also clip in to the tape loop of the cam. Clip the sling to the belay loop of your harness. Now lean out from the rock pushing against the stuck cam with a decent amount of force and hit the end of the cam stem with the hammer away from you as if you were hammering in a nail. The blows shouldn't be too heavy, just enough to provide a shock loading.

If you do it right you head outwards from the rock with cam hence the requirement to be on a rope, it could get messy otherwise.

Over the years I've collected at least a full set of cams, some of which were removable on the lead (!), others needed a quick abseil, 30 seconds of thought and two hands, some needed the above technique.
 Rick Graham 19 Oct 2014
In reply to Bob:
That works on uniform width cracks.

For seized cams or deep placements in irregular cracks one of these is the business:

+Foe CRD Cam removal device., 108 kb
(see my photos )
Post edited at 10:01
 andyman666999 21 Oct 2014
In reply to Rick Graham:

Does that work for overcammed devices in a flaring crack so its difficult to get behind the cam?
 Rick Graham 21 Oct 2014
In reply to andyman666999:

100% success rate.

Its nicknamed the " Foe" and is very useful for tapping lobes individually or bashing them sideways into a wider part of the crack.

If the crack is physically wide enough, a cam can be pushed further into a placement (obvious ).
Tapping each cam lobe in turn can walk the cam out of the crack the other way ( towards its tape/ krab end)
A cam has no sideways holding ability, so hitting it sideways will move it in that direction if the crack is wide enough.

The Foe was designed to hit from any direction.

I use 10mm round bar mild steel. Round off the ends into hemispheres if you want the cam to look less battered for reuse. The prototype works well but some hardening of the steel for more effective hammering is on the cards for Mark 3. (Mark 2 is in 16mm round bar but not tried out on the crag yet.)

Have fun but hit the cam not the rock.
 pec 21 Oct 2014
In reply to paul mitchell:

You just need to learn how to get them out, I've not lost one in 30 years but have retrieved quite a few left by others with nothing more than an ordinary nut key, and an occassional handy lump of rock.
The normal technique is to pull on the trigger bar whilst poking the ends of the cam lobes one at a time to push them a bit further than the trigger bar can pull them whilst wiggling the stem. The lump of rock is to hammer the head, via the nut key, if you need to move it sideways a little to where the crack is slightly wider but that's only a last resort.
Clipping the sling into your harness to help pull it outwards whilst doing the above my also help at times.
 ByEek 22 Oct 2014
In reply to paul mitchell:

Can you not buy nut keys that have the little hooks on the end precisely for the removal of cams?

I found mine on my second ever climbing trip!
 Pete O'Donovan 31 Oct 2014
In reply to paul mitchell:

Hi Paul,

Here's another one to add to the growing list of detritus:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=247942

This one's on the top of Elliot's Buttress on Gardom's. I believe its loss was mentioned in a recent post but I'm unable to find that just now.

Not only is the cam utterly stuck, but someone (not necessarily blaming the owner) has obviously had a go at whacking it out — there's damage to the edges of the crack and a small sharp rock — presumably used as a 'nut tool' — lying nearby is also marked. Perhaps Bill or Rick's 'Foe' would do the job without any further destruction, if not it's a hacksaw job...

Returning to the gist of your post, as stuck cams are invariably the result of over-cammed placements, perhaps manufacturers could be persuaded to put some kind of 'limiter' on their devices, which restricted the usable range by a few degrees at the narrow end. The limiting rod/bar/tooth/collar could then be disengaged to allow removal.

Pete.
 Rick Graham 31 Oct 2014
In reply to Pete O'Donovan:

Hi Pete

Easy job for a Bill stick or Foe.

There is a bit of airspace on the blue lobes, tap them on the top left as looking at the photo.

When they are cammed shut, lateral persuasion is needed.

or just hacksaw it into submission!
 Stevie989 31 Oct 2014
In reply to Pete O'Donovan:

Thats a shout - a rubber bung stopping the last few mm that could be pulled out allowing removal?


Baws! - should have patented that!
 Pete O'Donovan 31 Oct 2014
In reply to Rick Graham:

Hi Rick,

When I first saw this cam I thought it would be reasonably easy to remove but it seems absolutely locked solid in this position — no movement at all by 'normal' methods — must be the lower pair of cams totally contracted.

Cheers,

Pete.
 Pete O'Donovan 31 Oct 2014
In reply to Stevie989:
Interesting stuff...

Yep, a "rubber bung" (collar) on the stem was what I was initially thinking of, but when I talked about it with a mate who's a design/micro engineering wizard he reckoned a limiting device on the cam-lobes would be more applicable.

Pete.
Post edited at 19:11
 Stevie989 31 Oct 2014
In reply to Pete O'Donovan:

How would something like that be disengaged? Nut tool?
 Pete O'Donovan 31 Oct 2014
In reply to Stevie989:

Yes — a nut tool is something most trad climbers carry so that would be the optimal solution.

Apart from designing a workable system I think the biggest problem could be in persuading manufacturers to adopt something which would effectively reduce the 'workable' range of each cam.

Pete.
 Stevie989 31 Oct 2014
In reply to Pete O'Donovan:

I suppose with the extra range of double axle units you're not losing out on too much.
 Chris the Tall 31 Oct 2014
In reply to paul mitchell:

I remember doing a route in val di mello, where the 3rd or 4th pitch was a long continuous jamming crack. Had at least 4 cams stuck in it, for which I was very grateful. I think I only had a couple of the right size and placed them both in the first 30 foot!
 Bulls Crack 01 Nov 2014
In reply to paul mitchell:


> Come on,you Brits! Design a cam release mechanism,so we don't get our classics full of rusting stuck cams.I'm guessing the patent might be worth a few bob.Two pints for the best design.... Mitch

Define 'full'
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