UKC

I was out bouldering an 6A roof the other day and I was really struggling to keep my feet on and get weight through small holds on the back wall. So much so I tweaked a hamstring.

My initial thought was I need better core strength. That's what the advice always seems to be. But then I thought back to the hamstring tweak and thought maybe it's actually my legs that are the limiting factor.

To test this out I've been resting my head on a bed and putting my toes on a chair at full stretch and holding it. Then trying to do it with one foot. With two feet it's easy but with one it's tough for me and I can only hold it for a couple of seconds. Anyway, main conclusion is that it definitely seems to be my hamstrings and calfs that are the limiting factor though as opposed to my core.

The advice for steep climbing always seems to be to work on your core and often on exercises that don't involve putting weight through your legs at all - leg lifts, front levers etc.

Any thoughts? Is back of leg leg strength for getting weight onto small holds on steep ground a neglected area in the training manuals. (Obviously just bouldering steep stuff trains this, but it just doesn't seemed to mentioned as something that needs to get stronger)

(About me, because people always ask, I've been climbing for a few years now but mainly alone or with other beginners so fairly self taught)

In reply to Donnie:

Whilst leg strength probably has something to do with it, I think the core is the main factor in keeping your (or anybody else's) lower body up when on the really steep stuff. Essentially, think of your core as the thing that attaches the lower and upper halves of your body - and remember it's (very) bendy.

Personally, I have no problem gluing my feet onto holds on roofs, but my core is far to weak to keep the rest of my body up or "link" this force in any reasonable way. Of course it may be the case that you have a very strong core...

So to sum up, both matter, but core is the primary factor, whereas legs/calves are more of a secondary factor, So if you want a suggestion, maybe train both for a bit?

In reply to Donnie:

It could be that you pulled a hamstring by trying to do the work of your core in trying to keep yourself held into the wall?

In reply to Donnie:

i would have said its neither your leg or core which is the primary cause but how they work together which is the weakness

In reply to Donnie:

It's the entire posterior chain of muscles that has to pull hard in the situation you describe, essentially the back of your shoulders, back, glutes, hams and calves. All of the this chain needs to be strong to keep your feet on and re-direct force to them from your CoG. Many core exercises are (for climbers) fundamentally misguided and don't strengthen the right muscles in the right way for climbing - front levers being a great example, see here for a detailed explanation:
http://www.selfcoachedclimber.com/2012/09/front-levers-and-climbing/
Stevie Haston used to read books with his head on one sofa and his toes on another in the way you describe!

In reply to Donnie:

What shoe was it you where using? If it's not aggressive enough for over hanging routes you might be trying to compensate for the shoes flat last.

In reply to ianstevens:

Cheers Ian - yes, training both makes sense. It does seem to definitely the backs of my legs that are the limiting factor though.

In reply to sebflynn:

Scarpa Vapour lace ups. Don't think it's them. Thanks though

In reply to John Kettle:

Thanks John! That's what I thought but nice to see it confirmed somewhere official. Much appreciated.

In reply to Timmd:

Maybe. I'm not sure though - I can feel all the muscles up the back of my body working, lower back, bum, hammies, calfs and it just seems to be the legs are the weakest bit.

In reply to Donnie:

I've strained hamstrings a little on roofs before but it always seemed to me it was because I was straining to reach the footholds rather than too much strain when engaging the leg.

Your dead on bed feet on chair exercise sounds disgusting!

In reply to Donnie:

As noted above, it's almost certainly down to coordinating the various muscle chains.

Hamstrings should be strong, but it's your glutes that should be doing most of the work. For most people, most of the time (generalisation), problems come when they use quads or hamstrings to compensate for weakish glutes. The kind of bridging exercises you are talking about will only be effective if you are taking care not to do too much of the work with your lower back or hamstrings. It might be better to try hip thrusts, both double and single legged so as to isolate your glutes. Google for loads of videos and articles.

Another thing to consider, particularly if you notice a significant loss of control/power when you switch to one leg, is that big 'prime movers' like glutes and hamstrings depend on the stability of your hips and back to do their work. In rooves a huge amount of work is done using deep muscles around the pelvis and ribs to keep the trunk/hips/shoulders stable while you do the work. A combination of planks, side planks, bridges and levers will help to train these, or (better) lots of steep climbing on good holds.

Mark

I've had similar issues esp w heel hooking on slippery holds.

I found single leg bridges helpful: lie on back, bring one heel to buttock, press down into that heel while keeping body in a plane until knees are level with each other; lower slowly and repeat on same side as many reps as poss then swap sides.

I managed 6 reps to start, felt like I was gonna explode a hamstring! but got up to 12 reps after only 4 weeks of doing this a couple of times a week. And heel hooking muscle pulls have gone