UKC

Considering winter's coming, I'm getting the vague desire to get out in the hills and see some of those nice snow covered ridges and peaks that litter magazines and this website, taunting me with their implied epicness.

My question is, after window shopping for boots and crampons, does everyone just go and drop £300 + on gear when they start out? Obviously getting out on a PYB or Glenmore intro course is best to give it a go and learn some actual safety skills, but really? How did you first start out?

In reply to Pewtle:

Boots were my biggest spend but I picked up some good quality second hand crampons for half their RRP from the forums and a cosmetic second walking axe (also half the RRP).
Personally I keep an eye out for deals on here and facebook buy/sell pages, it takes longer but you can save some serious money.

You can also borrow equipment from Glenmore if you need it, you could treat it as a try before you buy?

In reply to Pewtle:

Most of us probably tried it out first on simple stuff with inadequate three season boots, some second hand crampons and a pair of ron hills and it worked pretty well until one day we got frozen to the bone and then we dropped £300 on some kit. In fact rather more than that once you get going. But buy last year's gear, buy in spring and you'll often only pay half price

In reply to Pewtle:

Four season boots (Scarpa SLs) were the only really big thing I bought when I started out, and they double as all-year-round walking boots, so weren't a pure winter investment.

I borrowed an axe and crampons from the uni club I was in. Other options would be to beg, buy or borrow old ones (old axes in particular are fine for walking with) or to hire stuff the first couple of times you go out.

I had general three season walking kit to start with, though. If you needed all the warm and waterproof stuff it'd probably add up pretty quickly.

In reply to Pewtle:

I'm not sure if the cost of gear has outstripped salaries/wages. Winter climbing kit has always been expensive, a niche market within a small market. Like others I started with doing easy routes in bendy walking boots, a single axe and a pair of crampons. For winter walking you only need this much. Perhaps the main problem is that the modern technical crampons do require a compatible boot so you either have to go the whole hog in one go or end up with two lots of kit.

Assuming you've got decent walking boots then getting a pair of crampons to suit and a single axe is all you need to start heading out walking in snow and ice. Obviously knowing how to use them helps, particularly the axe as you can cut steps across short sections of banked snow and the like to avoid having to put crampons on, take them off at regular intervals which just slows things down even more than the general clumsiness of winter walking/climbing does already.

A skills course would be definitely worthwhile if you feel that you've genuinely no idea of the techniques though finding somewhere fairly low and safe (no crags or boulder fields beneath you) and simply trying things out for yourself like cutting steps or ice axe braking is also worthwhile. You might think it's a day wasted but if it's a wild day on the tops then you are building up experience.

In reply to Bob:
Agreed, boots have always been expensive, having said which I started out my winter escapades with bendy army boots with bin bag liners (driest feet of our whole party!), a borrowed long ice axe and some bendy crampons. Perfectly OK for walking and I let plastic boot clad friends kick steps where necessary.

Eventually though just accumulated gear slowly. I still use my first walking axe now over 20 years later and most of my crampons I've bought used. I have spent far too much on tents though

In reply to Bob:

Marketing pressure is strong - it's easy to convince yourself that you 'need' item X or item Y, when they're luxuries rather than true necessities, or that this season's gear is significantly different from last season's. I think that these factors in addition to others contribute to people ( such as myself ) spending far more on gear than they really need to.

In reply to Pewtle:

Looks like you've already had some good advice. For what it's worth, it was my first 'winter' season last year. I'd done a lot of walking in winter before but last year was the first time I'd got onto graded routes. It is expensive, but like others have said, second hand gear will generally be fine for walking use. If you are a size 8 boot then I have a pair of ASOLO Alpenist GTX for sale for £40. C2 Crampons you can get for about £70 on fleebay, a walking ice axe for about £30. This is what I did to start off with and it wasn't too expensive.

I did a week at glenmore lodge where you can hire all of your gear (free with a course). It's expensive but gives you a great grounding for the skills needed. Alternatively, pick up a couple of books and the winter essentials bmc dvd for guidance on being in the hills in winter. To be honest, I'd recommend the books as well as glenmore if you are considering going there.

In reply to Pewtle:

A mate of mine (who shall remain nameless) started his Scottish winter career by doing Dorsal Arete in trail running shoes, c1 crampons, and a pair of dmm flys with picks so blunt they were dubbed 'the spoons'. Not recommended!

Watch the for sale forum here and you'll be able to pick up boots, spikes, and an axe for well under £300 I should think (though it's not exactly the time of year for winter gear bargains).

In reply to planetmarshall:

This year's gear always becomes last year's gear. ()

In reply to Pewtle:

Where do you live? Tiso outdoor experience shops hire out winter boots, crampons and axes for not too much. It would allow you the chance to try it out and see if you like it, and also get a feel for what you like or don't like in some of the kit. As others have said though, buy second hand and don't get dragged too much into the 'new season' stuff. And go with someone experienced! If you have the money, then a course at the lodge, or a day with a private guide, are well worth it. That way you also get a chance to ask lots of questions about the gear while using it so you know what you are looking for when you do buy. If you are less flush for cash, find an experienced friend who can take you out.
Winter is the best season on the hills - have fun! :-D

In reply to Pewtle: To be honest,you realy dont need to buy expensive to get out in the hills.When i first did striding edge in full winter,i bought wicking baselayers my brothers wooly jumper,cheap pair of waterproof pants from millets,a piar of nike boots covered them in wax,cheap gloves,cheap ice axe £35.00,crampons £49.00,stuck my sarnies and a drink in a cheap head bag and had a fantastic day out,then when you get serious about it you start buying the best this and the best that,as long as you do it safe with the right knowledge, thats the important thing ,good luck.

In reply to Pewtle:

I bought some Scarpa Manta M4 B2 boots that were end of line before they tried the GSB crampon fitting which was a disaster (£99). I still have them and they are in almost perfect condition because they're a bit too small so I never wear them. I then trawled E-bay for old gear coming away with a pair of Charlet Moser s12 crampons that cost me a full £26 delivered, and a pair of Simond Piranah axes that set me back another £99.

After a trip to Scotland with frozen feet I bought some second hand La sportiva Nepal extremes off here that I still use and after finding the limitations of the piranahs of some waterfall in Wales I bought some second hand simnond Naja axes that I still use.

In reply to Pewtle:

Ditto to the above posters, I bought some Asolo Plastic Boots for £20, Camp Green Ice crampons for £35 and Dmm Vipers for £75... Did me two seasons, then I upgraded to £60 Cumbres, £125 Reactors and after a further half season acquired some Charlet Moser Grade 8 monopoints for £28.

It's all a bit Tatty but very serviceable.

In reply to Pewtle:

I was just about to do an ad to see if I can sell my old crampons and ice tools. This is 90s stuff (Charlet Moser Pulsar tools and step-in Grivel 2F crampons), well loved and well used, but I've climbed up to V with the set. They've been mainly gathering dust over the last decade, but would work perfectly well for a keen beginner and let someone decide whether they are going to do more winter climbing in the future and whether investing in new stuff is worth it. Say... 40 quid for the lot, of any interest to you?

In reply to Pewtle:
I don't think it is a lot of money for hi tech equipment that has to operate and provide safety in a harsh environment and last for years and years.

My first winter boots were Koflach Viva Softs bought for £200 in 1991 then Scarpa Vegas bought for £250 in 1996. Nowadays you can pick up Vegas for less than £250 new. Prices have not kept up with inflation.

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

That's a good point, I almost forget we can buy gear we can trust our lives to.

In reply to Pewtle:

Some great advice in here, thanks all! Sounds like going second hand initially is the way to go, I'll get to stalking the FS forums.

Cheers for all the kit offers, will ping a few of you mails. Getting pretty excited for winter now, just need to convince mrs pewtle that it's a good idea now..