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I have a new laptop, and it lets me save things in The Cloud. This seems to me to be just what I need - access from anywhere etc. But my husband, who Knows About Computers, is troubled about security, access to documents etc. Is this a realistic worry, do you think?
L
L
In reply to BusyLizzie:
Ask Jennifer Lawrence!
I know that my wife and I have iPhones. When she writes herself notes on it, they appear on my 'phone... Neither of us could have an affair!
Ask Jennifer Lawrence!
I know that my wife and I have iPhones. When she writes herself notes on it, they appear on my 'phone... Neither of us could have an affair!
In reply to BusyLizzie:
Your husband is right to be concerned. Any document, file or picture that have ANYTHING private or personal should never be stored on the cloud.
Your husband is right to be concerned. Any document, file or picture that have ANYTHING private or personal should never be stored on the cloud.
In reply to BusyLizzie:
Depends on how secure the cloud storage is.
Don't forget that cloud companies can go bust and delete your stuff. People can hack into your storage and steal stuff. Governments can hack into your storage to see your stuff under the guise of National Security.
Most of us use cloud storage in some way such as Dropbox, flickr youtube or suchlike. Its just how important the stuff is to you, if it gets deleted because you could not pay your subscriptions or if the site deletes your stuff by mistake or gets taken over by another company or if it gets hacked for what ever reason by scumbags.
You could always make your own personal cloud storage, which is accessible from anywhere in the world. This is as safe as your own firewall/router can make it. And more than likely to be more secure provided you are not under surveillance from the security services.
Just get yourself a cheap Network Access Storage device and connect it to your router. Put what you want into it, set the permissions and allow access from anywhere in the world and Job done.
Depends on how secure the cloud storage is.
Don't forget that cloud companies can go bust and delete your stuff. People can hack into your storage and steal stuff. Governments can hack into your storage to see your stuff under the guise of National Security.
Most of us use cloud storage in some way such as Dropbox, flickr youtube or suchlike. Its just how important the stuff is to you, if it gets deleted because you could not pay your subscriptions or if the site deletes your stuff by mistake or gets taken over by another company or if it gets hacked for what ever reason by scumbags.
You could always make your own personal cloud storage, which is accessible from anywhere in the world. This is as safe as your own firewall/router can make it. And more than likely to be more secure provided you are not under surveillance from the security services.
Just get yourself a cheap Network Access Storage device and connect it to your router. Put what you want into it, set the permissions and allow access from anywhere in the world and Job done.
In reply to BusyLizzie:
Is this a realistic worry? Well, unless you intend to store files like 'UserName and password for my Natwest Account.txt' ... no.
I'm currently paying Microsoft the princely sum of 99p per month to store 40 GB of my data, seems pretty good value to me and I'm entirely relaxed about it.
Is this a realistic worry? Well, unless you intend to store files like 'UserName and password for my Natwest Account.txt' ... no.
I'm currently paying Microsoft the princely sum of 99p per month to store 40 GB of my data, seems pretty good value to me and I'm entirely relaxed about it.
In reply to The Lemming:
If you use dropbox it also saves files on your PC. I believe OneDrive works in a similar fashion.
As for the paranoids, if you're happy to have an online mail service (e.g. hotmail/live/outlook/whatever its called these days) then that has the same security as cloud systems of the same provider - in the case of this example, OneDrive. So basically put anything on it you'd be happy to email/have emailed to you.
> Depends on how secure the cloud storage is.
> Don't forget that cloud companies can go bust and delete your stuff.
If you use dropbox it also saves files on your PC. I believe OneDrive works in a similar fashion.
As for the paranoids, if you're happy to have an online mail service (e.g. hotmail/live/outlook/whatever its called these days) then that has the same security as cloud systems of the same provider - in the case of this example, OneDrive. So basically put anything on it you'd be happy to email/have emailed to you.
In reply to BusyLizzie:
"The cloud" is just a buzzword for "somebody elses computer". So whenever you think "Do I want this in the cloud" you should think "Am I happy with this being on someone elses computer?"
Assume the "somebody else" can read everything stored on their machine whenever they want.
If the answer is still "yes" then fine.
For me the list of things I can say yes to runs to personal web pages and public holiday snaps. Everything else stays on my network!
"The cloud" is just a buzzword for "somebody elses computer". So whenever you think "Do I want this in the cloud" you should think "Am I happy with this being on someone elses computer?"
Assume the "somebody else" can read everything stored on their machine whenever they want.
If the answer is still "yes" then fine.
For me the list of things I can say yes to runs to personal web pages and public holiday snaps. Everything else stays on my network!
In reply to BusyLizzie:
Most upload and download connections to cloud providers are encrypted using SSL, so it is highly unlikely that anyway is going to be able to intercept that traffic. The risk is employees of the cloud provider having access to your files. If that is a worry to you, I would recommend a service called Viivo (www.viivo.com) which is client-side encryption for the cloud, i.e. it encrypts you files before sending them up the cloud.. I use it with Dropbox and it couldn't be easier, but it also works with a range of other cloud services.
Most upload and download connections to cloud providers are encrypted using SSL, so it is highly unlikely that anyway is going to be able to intercept that traffic. The risk is employees of the cloud provider having access to your files. If that is a worry to you, I would recommend a service called Viivo (www.viivo.com) which is client-side encryption for the cloud, i.e. it encrypts you files before sending them up the cloud.. I use it with Dropbox and it couldn't be easier, but it also works with a range of other cloud services.
In reply to davidbeynon:
Very well put!
> "The cloud" is just a buzzword for "somebody elses computer". So whenever you think "Do I want this in the cloud" you should think "Am I happy with this being on someone elses computer?"
Very well put!
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
I paid Mr PCWorld £80 for 2048GB of external hard drive. Mine to keep and as secure as my home network with no monthly fees. That works out at £1.56 for 40Gig.
> I'm currently paying Microsoft the princely sum of 99p per month to store 40 GB of my data, seems pretty good value to me and I'm entirely relaxed about it.
I paid Mr PCWorld £80 for 2048GB of external hard drive. Mine to keep and as secure as my home network with no monthly fees. That works out at £1.56 for 40Gig.
In reply to The Lemming:
Serious question - the point of cloud storage is so you can access stuff "from anywhere in the world", as you say - but presumably that means your data will be passing through all sorts of networks and servers that aren't yours, which (assuming you're paranoid, which a surprisingly large number of people seem to be) means it's not "as safe as your own firewall", is it?
Or am I missing something?
> You could always make your own personal cloud storage, which is accessible from anywhere in the world. This is as safe as your own firewall/router can make it. And more than likely to be more secure provided you are not under surveillance from the security services.
Serious question - the point of cloud storage is so you can access stuff "from anywhere in the world", as you say - but presumably that means your data will be passing through all sorts of networks and servers that aren't yours, which (assuming you're paranoid, which a surprisingly large number of people seem to be) means it's not "as safe as your own firewall", is it?
Or am I missing something?
In reply to andy:
I don't have any industrial or government secrets but rather photos of miss lemming and the pooch so my personal cloud behind a firewall isn't high on anybody's threat list to go hunting for.
I'm not paranoid, just a realist and playing the numbers that nobody wants to waste time hacking my domestic setup for no real financial gain.
I don't have any industrial or government secrets but rather photos of miss lemming and the pooch so my personal cloud behind a firewall isn't high on anybody's threat list to go hunting for.
I'm not paranoid, just a realist and playing the numbers that nobody wants to waste time hacking my domestic setup for no real financial gain.
In reply to BusyLizzie:
If it's one drive then Microsofts security tips are here
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/onedrive/security
I certainly recommend the bit around trusted devices (basically if someone guesses your password you'll get a text or email to confirm if they are trying on a device you haven't already approved, so you can block a hacking attempt).
Sharing files
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/onedrive/share-file-folder
Here's their service agreement with you
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ph/windows/microsoft-services-agreement
In terms of hacking it's mostly people using weak passwords and not having two factor authentication turned on for their accounts. (See bit above about trusted devices etc.)
If it's one drive then Microsofts security tips are here
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/onedrive/security
I certainly recommend the bit around trusted devices (basically if someone guesses your password you'll get a text or email to confirm if they are trying on a device you haven't already approved, so you can block a hacking attempt).
Sharing files
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/onedrive/share-file-folder
Here's their service agreement with you
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ph/windows/microsoft-services-agreement
In terms of hacking it's mostly people using weak passwords and not having two factor authentication turned on for their accounts. (See bit above about trusted devices etc.)
Post edited at 21:40
In reply to BusyLizzie:
Thank you all for taking the time to reply and explain, this is hugely helpful.
L
Thank you all for taking the time to reply and explain, this is hugely helpful.
L
In reply to andy:
SSL
> Serious question - the point of cloud storage is so you can access stuff "from anywhere in the world", as you say - but presumably that means your data will be passing through all sorts of networks and servers that aren't yours, which (assuming you're paranoid, which a surprisingly large number of people seem to be) means it's not "as safe as your own firewall", is it?
> Or am I missing something?
SSL
1
In reply to BusyLizzie:
My main issue with cloud storage is with the quality of broadband or 3G where I live it would take me about 30 years to upload to "The Cloud"...
My main issue with cloud storage is with the quality of broadband or 3G where I live it would take me about 30 years to upload to "The Cloud"...
In reply to The Lemming:
You may not even need a NAS. I noticed a USB port on the side of my router, and, reading the user manual, see that it can be used to provide NAS-like services, including a DLNA media server and local and remote access. All you need is a USB hard drive.
Certainly worth checking your router's capabilities before splashing cash on a NAS.
You may not even need a NAS. I noticed a USB port on the side of my router, and, reading the user manual, see that it can be used to provide NAS-like services, including a DLNA media server and local and remote access. All you need is a USB hard drive.
Certainly worth checking your router's capabilities before splashing cash on a NAS.
In reply to captain paranoia:
Bingo.
There are always options to be had.
Or people could pay someone else to look after their stuff. Money for old rope, if you ask me.
Bingo.
There are always options to be had.
Or people could pay someone else to look after their stuff. Money for old rope, if you ask me.
In reply to The Lemming:
Maybe I don't understand computer stuff, but I get that your pictures are "safe" behind your firewall - but if you access it from a cafe in Skegness then presumably that particular bit of data is going via the network of the Skegness caff?
Maybe I don't understand computer stuff, but I get that your pictures are "safe" behind your firewall - but if you access it from a cafe in Skegness then presumably that particular bit of data is going via the network of the Skegness caff?
In reply to andy:
Exactly and if Lemming has cloud storage his firewall must be allowing him to access it over the Internet, else it's not cloud. So the security of his cloud is down to his chosen pass phrases. I get he also doesn't have IDS / IPS in place either, and the he has only a single basic router firewall and he can't tell us in 5 mins which ports are open and which are not and how it deals with none tcp or udp traffic.
Exactly and if Lemming has cloud storage his firewall must be allowing him to access it over the Internet, else it's not cloud. So the security of his cloud is down to his chosen pass phrases. I get he also doesn't have IDS / IPS in place either, and the he has only a single basic router firewall and he can't tell us in 5 mins which ports are open and which are not and how it deals with none tcp or udp traffic.
Post edited at 23:50
In reply to Orgsm:
That is correct. I know bugger all about that stuff. However my password is roughly 25 characters long and what I have, isn't of any interest to those capable of taking the time to find this out.
And I have no intention of using free wifi hotspots either.
That is correct. I know bugger all about that stuff. However my password is roughly 25 characters long and what I have, isn't of any interest to those capable of taking the time to find this out.
And I have no intention of using free wifi hotspots either.
Post edited at 00:06
In reply to BusyLizzie:
If you have any concerns about privacy of data you put in the cloud you need to research how good an organisation Is at safeguarding it, and also how much of an easy target they are perceived to be by hackers (YAHOO)
At a deeper level re Data Protection Law some people are concerned by whose law applies to your data. If you want EU law to apply ( a higher standard of protection then say the US) then you need to be careful not to send your data to the US or to a company that the US government thinks its law applies to.
If you have any concerns about privacy of data you put in the cloud you need to research how good an organisation Is at safeguarding it, and also how much of an easy target they are perceived to be by hackers (YAHOO)
At a deeper level re Data Protection Law some people are concerned by whose law applies to your data. If you want EU law to apply ( a higher standard of protection then say the US) then you need to be careful not to send your data to the US or to a company that the US government thinks its law applies to.
In reply to BusyLizzie:
I hate the term cloud, that aside, I think its worth mentioning...'Cloud' storage, say let us take amazon s3 for instance, is far far more reliable than whatever storage you have in your home.
I guess it's one of those things that follows a simple rule: easy, cheap, reliable, private, pick any time three.
I hate the term cloud, that aside, I think its worth mentioning...'Cloud' storage, say let us take amazon s3 for instance, is far far more reliable than whatever storage you have in your home.
I guess it's one of those things that follows a simple rule: easy, cheap, reliable, private, pick any time three.
In reply to mgco3:
Not sure I agree at all. With good security (make sure you use 2 factor authentication for instance), the majority of cloud services are more secure than a home machine.
A DIY solution will almost certainly be far less secure (unless you're a network security architect and want to spend.
Finally, it's not just someone else's computer. Most cloud services fully encrypt content as it leaves your machine so even the operator of the service can't read the content of your files.
Attackers can get in if your password and other protection is weak but they can also get into your home machine. If you want super security, keep sensitive stuff on an air-gapped machine with full disk encryption and transfer only with encrypted, one use, USB devices. Not particularly convenient though.
> Your husband is right to be concerned. Any document, file or picture that have ANYTHING private or personal should never be stored on the cloud.
Not sure I agree at all. With good security (make sure you use 2 factor authentication for instance), the majority of cloud services are more secure than a home machine.
A DIY solution will almost certainly be far less secure (unless you're a network security architect and want to spend.
Finally, it's not just someone else's computer. Most cloud services fully encrypt content as it leaves your machine so even the operator of the service can't read the content of your files.
Attackers can get in if your password and other protection is weak but they can also get into your home machine. If you want super security, keep sensitive stuff on an air-gapped machine with full disk encryption and transfer only with encrypted, one use, USB devices. Not particularly convenient though.
In reply to BusyLizzie:
That depends on the documents you store. At work we're banned from storing things on "The Cloud" - that is third party servers not held on site. That's partly motivated by information security concerns and partly by legal obligations relating to the DPA 1998 for various reasons; e.g. as the providers of a particular cloud may be under a foreign legal jurisdiction and are not therefore also covered by the act.
For personal use, I follow the principle that the less places have a copy of some important document of mine, the lower the chance of there being a security leak. So things like banking details and my personal financial bookkeeping only live on an encrypted laptop drive and an encrypted backup drive. In theory I don't mind putting anything else I have in the cloud, although I rarely find it useful. If I had anything I considered more valuable than my bank records, or anything whose illicit copying would cause me significant problems, I would not put that in the cloud. Then again I would also not put it on a modern computer of any sort unless it had been through a paper based one time cypher. I figure someone is more likely to have their laptop hacked or stolen than their cloud storage violated, although some cloud providers have had problems keeping your password secure.
Where the cloud is really useful to me is in exchanging large collections of files like family photos with relatives etc.
> Is this a realistic worry, do you think?
That depends on the documents you store. At work we're banned from storing things on "The Cloud" - that is third party servers not held on site. That's partly motivated by information security concerns and partly by legal obligations relating to the DPA 1998 for various reasons; e.g. as the providers of a particular cloud may be under a foreign legal jurisdiction and are not therefore also covered by the act.
For personal use, I follow the principle that the less places have a copy of some important document of mine, the lower the chance of there being a security leak. So things like banking details and my personal financial bookkeeping only live on an encrypted laptop drive and an encrypted backup drive. In theory I don't mind putting anything else I have in the cloud, although I rarely find it useful. If I had anything I considered more valuable than my bank records, or anything whose illicit copying would cause me significant problems, I would not put that in the cloud. Then again I would also not put it on a modern computer of any sort unless it had been through a paper based one time cypher. I figure someone is more likely to have their laptop hacked or stolen than their cloud storage violated, although some cloud providers have had problems keeping your password secure.
Where the cloud is really useful to me is in exchanging large collections of files like family photos with relatives etc.
Post edited at 16:25
In reply to Orgsm:
I imagine that, along with myself, 99.9% of people have absolutely no idea what any of that means. Does that mean we're all going to have all our secrets, money and identities stolen?
> I get he also doesn't have IDS / IPS in place either, and the he has only a single basic router firewall and he can't tell us in 5 mins which ports are open and which are not and how it deals with none tcp or udp traffic.
I imagine that, along with myself, 99.9% of people have absolutely no idea what any of that means. Does that mean we're all going to have all our secrets, money and identities stolen?
In reply to london_huddy:
Whilst that may be true of professional cloud services providers, I'm not sure it's true for 'cloud services' provided free for consumers, such as those provided by Apple, Microsoft, Google et al. for device syncing and backup.
Happy to be proved wrong.
I did find quite a useful guide to professional cloud services the other day, which warned that, if you're storing any personal data covered by the Data Protection Act, the servers must be within the EU. I'll see if I can dig the article out.
I'd agree with other comments along the lines of "don't put anything in cloud storage that you wouldn't want to be made public". Then again, maybe now is a good time to remind people that email is not secure...
> Most cloud services fully encrypt content as it leaves your machine so even the operator of the service can't read the content of your files
Whilst that may be true of professional cloud services providers, I'm not sure it's true for 'cloud services' provided free for consumers, such as those provided by Apple, Microsoft, Google et al. for device syncing and backup.
Happy to be proved wrong.
I did find quite a useful guide to professional cloud services the other day, which warned that, if you're storing any personal data covered by the Data Protection Act, the servers must be within the EU. I'll see if I can dig the article out.
I'd agree with other comments along the lines of "don't put anything in cloud storage that you wouldn't want to be made public". Then again, maybe now is a good time to remind people that email is not secure...
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:
Especially not if you leave yourself notes about it.
To do list:
- suit to dry cleaners
- birthday card for Aunty Flo
- email BT
- dirty night in Travelodge with boss
> I know that my wife and I have iPhones. When she writes herself notes on it, they appear on my 'phone... Neither of us could have an affair!
Especially not if you leave yourself notes about it.
To do list:
- suit to dry cleaners
- birthday card for Aunty Flo
- email BT
- dirty night in Travelodge with boss
In reply to captain paranoia:
'Then again, maybe now is a good time to remind people that email is not secure... '
Absolutely. Best to put an (unencrypted) piece of paper in an envelope - and to make it extra secure, write 'Private and Confidential' on the outside - and give it to someone who will give it to someone to deliver it for you. What can possibly go wrong?
'Then again, maybe now is a good time to remind people that email is not secure... '
Absolutely. Best to put an (unencrypted) piece of paper in an envelope - and to make it extra secure, write 'Private and Confidential' on the outside - and give it to someone who will give it to someone to deliver it for you. What can possibly go wrong?
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Even better: put the envelope in another envelope and address it to 'The Security Controller'. That'll make it really secure...
Even better: put the envelope in another envelope and address it to 'The Security Controller'. That'll make it really secure...
In reply to captain paranoia:
Google turned on 'at rest' encryption in 2013. HTTPS public key encryption does the 'in transit' encryption.
http://www.scmagazine.com/googles-encryption-announcement-what-it-does-and-...
Email is pretty secure unless the machine that you're on is compromised which is pretty easy. Joe public will click on >40% of decent phishing emails (http://services.google.com/fh/files/blogs/google_hijacking_study_2014.pdf) which then opens everything up.
Any having passwords, passport info, banking info and other sensitive stuff in the clear anywhere (in email or on a home or work computer) is a dreadful idea: just don't do it.
I'd suggest then people generally worry more about staying safe against phishing, malware and basic authentication (and switch on two factor authentication now) than who your cloud provider is.
Google turned on 'at rest' encryption in 2013. HTTPS public key encryption does the 'in transit' encryption.
http://www.scmagazine.com/googles-encryption-announcement-what-it-does-and-...
Email is pretty secure unless the machine that you're on is compromised which is pretty easy. Joe public will click on >40% of decent phishing emails (http://services.google.com/fh/files/blogs/google_hijacking_study_2014.pdf) which then opens everything up.
Any having passwords, passport info, banking info and other sensitive stuff in the clear anywhere (in email or on a home or work computer) is a dreadful idea: just don't do it.
I'd suggest then people generally worry more about staying safe against phishing, malware and basic authentication (and switch on two factor authentication now) than who your cloud provider is.
In reply to BusyLizzie:
If your paranoid about 'the cloud' use a service like Wuala which is client side encrypted. That way the provider doesn't even know what is stored on it's own servers. The software a little clunky but I find it works well enough.
If your paranoid about 'the cloud' use a service like Wuala which is client side encrypted. That way the provider doesn't even know what is stored on it's own servers. The software a little clunky but I find it works well enough.
Post edited at 21:28
In reply to BusyLizzie:
It is simply a case of mathematics. Many people all putting their eggs in a single basket makes it a very attractive "basket" to steal from. The potential rewards for breaking into a cloud based storage system are huge and therefore worth a proportionate amount of time and effort.
Many people all keeping their data on individual , separate PC's all potentially with different levels of security, anti virus etc means that it is much less likely, mathematically, that your data will be stolen as the potential gains from getting at that data is significantly less. As long as you follow the basic rules of safe browsing and keeping anti virus and security updates current you are more likely to be safe.
It is simply a case of mathematics. Many people all putting their eggs in a single basket makes it a very attractive "basket" to steal from. The potential rewards for breaking into a cloud based storage system are huge and therefore worth a proportionate amount of time and effort.
Many people all keeping their data on individual , separate PC's all potentially with different levels of security, anti virus etc means that it is much less likely, mathematically, that your data will be stolen as the potential gains from getting at that data is significantly less. As long as you follow the basic rules of safe browsing and keeping anti virus and security updates current you are more likely to be safe.
In reply to london_huddy:
The bolder the claims that one encryption or another is "impossible" to crack the greater the effort to disprove the claims. The more that people believe the hype about the safety of Cloud storage the more likely they are to commit lucrative data to storage.
"Air gapped" machines are not secure totally secure unless your home pc is only used inside a faraday shield.
If you don't believe me sit an old transistor radio next to your PC..
The bolder the claims that one encryption or another is "impossible" to crack the greater the effort to disprove the claims. The more that people believe the hype about the safety of Cloud storage the more likely they are to commit lucrative data to storage.
"Air gapped" machines are not secure totally secure unless your home pc is only used inside a faraday shield.
If you don't believe me sit an old transistor radio next to your PC..
In reply to mgco3:
I'm amazed people are so dim about this. Of course you don't put all your eggs in one basket. The system I have (which seems a pretty obvious one) is to have a portable disc drive for the confidential stuff (then you can take that with you, or leave it at home - principle being that you never leave the computer and disc drive together in the same place) . And then something like Dropbox for everything else that is not confidential/the rest of the world couldn't care a damn about. I have an Apple but wouldn't dream of using their Cloud because, of course, they are snooping in to that the whole time for market research purposes. For extra backup for creative things you're working on you can just email the latest files to yourself or Yahoo mail or something, so it's temporarily stored offline. Important to have about three totally different back-up systems in different places. When you've finished a particular piece of work you can even do it the old fashioned way and just burn a CD, or multiple copies of latest versions. But I haven't done that for a while.
I'm amazed people are so dim about this. Of course you don't put all your eggs in one basket. The system I have (which seems a pretty obvious one) is to have a portable disc drive for the confidential stuff (then you can take that with you, or leave it at home - principle being that you never leave the computer and disc drive together in the same place) . And then something like Dropbox for everything else that is not confidential/the rest of the world couldn't care a damn about. I have an Apple but wouldn't dream of using their Cloud because, of course, they are snooping in to that the whole time for market research purposes. For extra backup for creative things you're working on you can just email the latest files to yourself or Yahoo mail or something, so it's temporarily stored offline. Important to have about three totally different back-up systems in different places. When you've finished a particular piece of work you can even do it the old fashioned way and just burn a CD, or multiple copies of latest versions. But I haven't done that for a while.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I'm amazed people are so paranoid. I'm exhausted just reading your precautions against - what? exactly?
The only thing on my computers that I really care about are photos and current software projects, and if anyone wants to hunt them down on OneDrive they will be sorely disappointed.
I'm amazed people are so paranoid. I'm exhausted just reading your precautions against - what? exactly?
The only thing on my computers that I really care about are photos and current software projects, and if anyone wants to hunt them down on OneDrive they will be sorely disappointed.
In reply to mgco3:
Nothing's perfect but for the 99% of home users, the standard security provided by most cloud providers is more than sufficient. Most people should worry more about making it hard for the bad guys, people should worry about good password and authentication discipline, worry more about patching, more about AV and anti-malware and the other basics rather than ignoring it all and stressing about the things that are pretty good already,
Nothing's perfect but for the 99% of home users, the standard security provided by most cloud providers is more than sufficient. Most people should worry more about making it hard for the bad guys, people should worry about good password and authentication discipline, worry more about patching, more about AV and anti-malware and the other basics rather than ignoring it all and stressing about the things that are pretty good already,
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
I thought I had expressed myself quite simply. All I said was that one's private details (that require a high level of security backup) - e.g one's bank account, credit card numbers and annual accounts etc - should be backed up separately. I just mentioned a simple portable external disk drive (mine's the size of a slim paperback). That's all. Your sole backup. The other things I was mentioning were ways that most of us who use computers everyday back up our everyday work where security is far less important. I can't imagine anyone having a simpler system than myself. If so, I fear for them.
> I'm amazed people are so paranoid. I'm exhausted just reading your precautions against - what? exactly?
I thought I had expressed myself quite simply. All I said was that one's private details (that require a high level of security backup) - e.g one's bank account, credit card numbers and annual accounts etc - should be backed up separately. I just mentioned a simple portable external disk drive (mine's the size of a slim paperback). That's all. Your sole backup. The other things I was mentioning were ways that most of us who use computers everyday back up our everyday work where security is far less important. I can't imagine anyone having a simpler system than myself. If so, I fear for them.
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
oh ... I forgot to mention: what you're backing up against (apart from very important private banking info etc) is a machine failure. I've had Macs for years with total reliability, but last year had a hard disk failure, and fortunately I had all the files backed up (thanks to Time Machine and an external drive). Even then, it was quite a mess and took about three days before i was up and running again.
All this is quite simple stuff and not at all technically advanced. Easier than having carbon copies in the old days, for example.
oh ... I forgot to mention: what you're backing up against (apart from very important private banking info etc) is a machine failure. I've had Macs for years with total reliability, but last year had a hard disk failure, and fortunately I had all the files backed up (thanks to Time Machine and an external drive). Even then, it was quite a mess and took about three days before i was up and running again.
All this is quite simple stuff and not at all technically advanced. Easier than having carbon copies in the old days, for example.
In reply to Rob Exile Ward or anyone: I have a subsidiary question that is probably stupid as I have no knowledge of cloud. As an author I'm work on various computers depending where I am. This means sometimes that me text on computer a is an earlier version of my text on computer b and so on. In this way I know I have a back up of my original draft if I want to refer back to it. If I put my latest text on cloud and then download it on another computer does it automatically update my file and thereby delete my earlier draft?
In reply to jcw:
In answer to JCW > Dropbox is your solution.
Files are still stored on your PC, but synced to 'the cloud' which means you save your document on your home PC as normal. ..... open laptop, hey presto the updated document is sitting there on your laptops hard drive (after a couple of seconds of syncing , and presuming you have internet access).
As someone who used to use multiple USB drives / email to myself / external hard drives in order to do what you are doing, dropbox has made me about a million times more efficient.
I have two desktop PC's (home and office), laptop and smart phone - all have the most up to date documents for everything I'm working on, all at the same time - and for me that is the main benefit.
As per one of the posts above, I think one can take the security issue too far - sending important legal documents in the post is second nature, but really it's about the least secure thing you can do. I know, as in a previous life I was a postman.
It's a numbers game, and I'm not Jennifer Lawrence so rely on being pretty low down on the pecking order of people wanting to hack my account to see my bits. And the numbers are mind boggling when it comes to the amount of data stored. As are my bits.
In answer to JCW > Dropbox is your solution.
Files are still stored on your PC, but synced to 'the cloud' which means you save your document on your home PC as normal. ..... open laptop, hey presto the updated document is sitting there on your laptops hard drive (after a couple of seconds of syncing , and presuming you have internet access).
As someone who used to use multiple USB drives / email to myself / external hard drives in order to do what you are doing, dropbox has made me about a million times more efficient.
I have two desktop PC's (home and office), laptop and smart phone - all have the most up to date documents for everything I'm working on, all at the same time - and for me that is the main benefit.
As per one of the posts above, I think one can take the security issue too far - sending important legal documents in the post is second nature, but really it's about the least secure thing you can do. I know, as in a previous life I was a postman.
It's a numbers game, and I'm not Jennifer Lawrence so rely on being pretty low down on the pecking order of people wanting to hack my account to see my bits. And the numbers are mind boggling when it comes to the amount of data stored. As are my bits.
In reply to DefenderKen:
Thank you for that. That seems to be the solution for my needs. My alarm bells started ringing when a USB stick I use for transferring suddenly wiped and distorted some of my files. All the more so as I was trying to recuperate a book I started working on 12 years ago.
Thank you for that. That seems to be the solution for my needs. My alarm bells started ringing when a USB stick I use for transferring suddenly wiped and distorted some of my files. All the more so as I was trying to recuperate a book I started working on 12 years ago.
In reply to jcw:
There's probably software that would manage that process for you; personally I am very uncomfortable about software which I don't quite understand what it is doing. Also, if software makes assumptions (e.g. that 'obviously' you want to store the latest version of your files) then those assumptions will almost certainly go wrong.
I'm not sure that there is a better solution than using filenames to differentiate and keep multiple versions, e.g. save a version created today as '20141126MyMasterpiece.Doc' and the version tomorrow as ' '20141127MyMasterpiece.Doc' (the funny filenames are so they will be unique and sorted in date order by default.)
There's probably software that would manage that process for you; personally I am very uncomfortable about software which I don't quite understand what it is doing. Also, if software makes assumptions (e.g. that 'obviously' you want to store the latest version of your files) then those assumptions will almost certainly go wrong.
I'm not sure that there is a better solution than using filenames to differentiate and keep multiple versions, e.g. save a version created today as '20141126MyMasterpiece.Doc' and the version tomorrow as ' '20141127MyMasterpiece.Doc' (the funny filenames are so they will be unique and sorted in date order by default.)
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
You probably know this.
The better solution is called version control and there are several, nay many, systems out there. The current flavour of the month is Git, it's free. VCSs allow you to have a master from which you branch to make changes then merge those changes back in to the master. You can have many branches each for a different change that can be merged back in any order and you can bring changes from the master branch in to your working branch so you keep up to date.
You can also move backwards and forwards through the change history so any version of the document is accessible.
You probably know this.
The better solution is called version control and there are several, nay many, systems out there. The current flavour of the month is Git, it's free. VCSs allow you to have a master from which you branch to make changes then merge those changes back in to the master. You can have many branches each for a different change that can be merged back in any order and you can bring changes from the master branch in to your working branch so you keep up to date.
You can also move backwards and forwards through the change history so any version of the document is accessible.
Post edited at 10:40
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
I'm a complete advocate of the cloud and regularly use google docs. The doc is storred on the cloud and you edit it in a browser. You never need to save and multiple people can edit in realtime. The doc is updated right in front of you. If you store conventional docs on the cloud chances are that they are mapped to a virtual drive on your pc rather than being synched. This gets around the issue of multiple versioning.
I'm a complete advocate of the cloud and regularly use google docs. The doc is storred on the cloud and you edit it in a browser. You never need to save and multiple people can edit in realtime. The doc is updated right in front of you. If you store conventional docs on the cloud chances are that they are mapped to a virtual drive on your pc rather than being synched. This gets around the issue of multiple versioning.
In reply to DefenderKen:
Is there any software that will automatically encrypt my files when I put them on Drop box?
Is there any software that will automatically encrypt my files when I put them on Drop box?
In reply to ByEek:
Yes I can see that but I think the poster I was replying to WANTED multiple versions, which is what concerns me sometimes with automated synching.
Yes I can see that but I think the poster I was replying to WANTED multiple versions, which is what concerns me sometimes with automated synching.
In reply to Bob:
'You probably know this.'
Nice to of you to think so Bob, but the depths of my ignorance are limitless! I'll look up Git though.
'You probably know this.'
Nice to of you to think so Bob, but the depths of my ignorance are limitless! I'll look up Git though.
In reply to BusyLizzie:
Can't he explain why?
Why not just chuck your documents on a usb stick and put it on your keyring. Access from anywhere and you're not limited to having an internet connection or having to download said documents to read them on the machine you're using.
> But my husband, who Knows About Computers, is troubled about security
Can't he explain why?
Why not just chuck your documents on a usb stick and put it on your keyring. Access from anywhere and you're not limited to having an internet connection or having to download said documents to read them on the machine you're using.
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Here's a good introductory book to Git - http://git-scm.com/book/en/v2 You don't need much past the first three chapters to use it though the last one "Commands" might be useful!
Very light weight but it's worth running from the command line to get a feel of what's going on.
Here's a good introductory book to Git - http://git-scm.com/book/en/v2 You don't need much past the first three chapters to use it though the last one "Commands" might be useful!
Very light weight but it's worth running from the command line to get a feel of what's going on.
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Doesn't need to be as dramatic as this. My cat pulled out the power cable of my 2TB external HDD and knackered it (which illustrates how shit they are). The cloud every time. Sensitive date is encrypted before storage on the cloud.
> I wouldn't wish this on anybody, but if your house burnt down?
Doesn't need to be as dramatic as this. My cat pulled out the power cable of my 2TB external HDD and knackered it (which illustrates how shit they are). The cloud every time. Sensitive date is encrypted before storage on the cloud.
In reply to Willi Crater:
Encrypted by who? By you? Or as a part of the software package that backs up to the cloud? If you're not encrypting it yourself you really shouldn't trust it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropbox_%28service%29#Privacy_concerns
Encrypted by who? By you? Or as a part of the software package that backs up to the cloud? If you're not encrypting it yourself you really shouldn't trust it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropbox_%28service%29#Privacy_concerns
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In reply to Removed User:
By me you twit. It's really not that hard if you know what you are doing (which I do). Apologies if this sounds offensive, but traditional patronising UKC responses really get up my nose.
By me you twit. It's really not that hard if you know what you are doing (which I do). Apologies if this sounds offensive, but traditional patronising UKC responses really get up my nose.
Post edited at 15:57
In reply to london_huddy:
If you are happy with the standards of cloud security then feel free to commit your valuable data.
Having had first hand experience of security breaches with more than one major UK company, including a major foreign owned UK bank, I will not be swayed on my opinion of cloud data security thanks.
If you are happy with the standards of cloud security then feel free to commit your valuable data.
Having had first hand experience of security breaches with more than one major UK company, including a major foreign owned UK bank, I will not be swayed on my opinion of cloud data security thanks.
In reply to mgco3:
Fair enough.
I'm sure we'd both agree that the majority of people out there would be well advised to get the basics right before stressing about anything else - I commend healthy scepticism about emails and links, good password discipline, patching, AV and anti-malware plus some sort of firewall and a back-up system to the house.
Fair enough.
I'm sure we'd both agree that the majority of people out there would be well advised to get the basics right before stressing about anything else - I commend healthy scepticism about emails and links, good password discipline, patching, AV and anti-malware plus some sort of firewall and a back-up system to the house.
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