UKC

Would anyone happen to have a CAD drawing of nomic/quark picks? I happen to have free access to a laser and/or water jet cutter and am looking to get some drytooling/practice picks made. I can trace the pick outline but would then still have to create a CAD drawing for the cutter. Any help much appreciated.

In reply to smuffy:

In reply to smuffy:

There are liabilty issues here. Whoever does your drawing won' t want to have to explain their actions in front of a judge. That CE mark you see on gear is there for a reason. It says 'I promise I checked everything'.

What material were you planning to use?

Do you have precise measurements of the parts of the pick and head that fit together?

What filetypes and file features do your CAM system use?

In reply to Jim Fraser:

Jim, you make a good point about the CE marking although if I actually make alterations to my own axes then I imagine that under PUWR I am responsible and liable for my own actions. The picks would only be used on my own climbing wall which is made using wooden holds although the wall is actually brick so I don't want to damage my nice sharp ice picks. Material could be as simple as carbon steel although I may have an option for "off-cuts" of 304 or 310 stainless.

I don't yet have precise measurements which is one of teh main reasons I was hoping someone had an existing CAD drawing. If not I'll have to trace the profile of the picks and measure although strategic points and then create an autocad drawing from scratch.

In reply to smuffy:

Most of the sheet routinely used is of a relatively simple spec and that concerns me. The rather nice alloy steels that tend to be used for picks (I recall one maker using the same as one of my previous employers had been using for a truck crankshaft) are quite wonderful and provide considerable strength in bending. That strength provides stability. When it is not there the pick will tend to fold sideways. One could be easily fooled into thinking that the depth of the pick in comparison to its thickness provides sufficient strength but quite a minor deflection sideways will lead to high bending stress and, in weaker material, failure.

If you are simply hooking on a wall then the answer may be to increase the depth considerably. However, this may mean sacrificing more realistic activities such as torquing. Shorter picks mean a reduced bending moment which also reduces the chance of failure and this might be an option.

In reply to smuffy:
I can create one for you if you like but i am berried under a mountain of work at the-mo so it will probably be a 2 week wait to get round to it if that's OK. some things i will need a good quality image of the pick's side profile and one measurement form the pick to scale it so i can trace over the image, if you give me materiel specification and thickness i can build it in 3D and i can virtually test it to destruction.

In reply to smuffy:

Something the bear in mind is that most (if not all) carbon steel will come in an annealed state and will need heat treatment to reach any strength. I don't know much about stainless, stiffer than carbon steels but prone to work hardening and being brittle.

I know from experience that the lower grade steels EN3, EN8 etc and even non heat treated exotics bend like wet cardboard when put under the loads of an axe placement.

I'd say the cheapest route would be to buy some used picks or some shiny new ones and relegate yours to training. That said its more fun to play with laser cutters and files..

In reply to smuffy:


Euro Norm EN10083-1 (1991) 970 Part 1; 34CrN1Mo6
BS970 Part 1 1983, 817M40
Deutsche W/No 1.6562

In reply to Jim Fraser:

The problem with EN24 is finding it in a plate suitable for laser cutting. You can get it down to about 8mm sawn from a block but that leaves a mountain of finishing work and waste.

In reply to smuffy:
Do you have to generate the CAM files or will the machine owner be converting them for you? To be honest I can't see the point in doing this unless you want to tweak the profiles to make them your own. It'll be a chunk of work sharpening an profiling these once they're cut and you'll be working tough heat treated steel which won't be cheap or easy to work and to what end, to make some picks for training on soft materials? Can't you just use your normal mixed terrain picks?

If you do still want to do it it's easy to make drawings. Download Draftsight (free and easy to use), scan your picks on a flatbed scanner, import the scan, draw around the outline, scale the drawing if needed to match a measurement off the pick. The hardest bit for most people would be sourcing small quantities of good flat spring steel in the right gauge and temper to make a passable pick (the flatter sections of leaf spring from a light commercial maybe?).

I don't see the liability issue to be honest if someone is just supplying a drawing, it's up to you what you do with it, you could have it cut from birthday cake for all they know or care.

jk

In reply to smuffy:

a quick feebay search... 'Custom made Petzl Nomic Ice Axe'... shiverrrr

In reply to George Fisher:


Pretty much the same for anything that has the right properties.

In reply to smuffy:

You need the original drawing, which will be copyright to the manufacturer and anyone who has a copy would probably have agreed to use it only for whatever purpose they were supplied with it for. In other words you're not likely to get one.
Scanning and/or creating your own version is all very well but you don't have any idea what the positional and diametric tolerances are for the bolt holes; these are important and if you get it wrong then the joint 'could' be weakened, or even worse you 'could' damage the bolts and/or the head.
Contrary to what has been said above, stainless steel is generally less stiff than carbon or low-alloy steels (lower Young's Modulus 'E') but you probably wouldn't notice as there's not much difference.

In reply to smuffy:

A good few years ago i was after new picks for my old mountain tech axes.These became unavailable as the firm went bust so i made my own.I digitised my old picks on a cmm and created a dxf file and then wire eroded them out.
I experimented with several different steels,toolsteels and different heat treatments.In the end i got the right combination.Infact the picks are still going but 4 or 5 years ago i got some more modern tools as there much better to climb with.
In all i would say picks are easy to make but i would say its not worth the hassle of trying to make them at work without the boss knowing etc.

In reply to Gerry: The hole positions can easily be measured on the picks and axes.The tolerances wont be that tied up.Just looking at my quarks now and recon theres 0.025mm clearance on the bolt fit.

In reply to andyc123:

That's one thousandth of an inch in old money. The holes in the pick and head would need to be positioned to a similar level of accuracy (i.e. one hole relative to the other within a 'thou' or so) to ensure assembly. Of course you could simply make the holes oversize and position them how you like, but that may affect the way the loads are carried. With no idea of what materials are used, or the stresses, then we've no idea whether damage could be caused to the bolts and head.

In reply to Gerry: Yeah it is a thou in old money,still a big tolerance in my line of work.The holes still could be pissy in engineering term without doing any damage.The slot the pick fits in needs to be good though.The bolts clamp everthing up tight so there no moment.

In reply to smuffy:

Can some one give me dimensions of the largest hole on the Nomic pick and ill drive the rest of the dimensions from that failing that any one with access to a caliper and a pick would be better.