UKC

Currently I have a CD player, radio, amplifier and speakers. If want to get all modern and have my music on a computer, would adding a "music streamer" and "NAS Box" be the way to go? Does the NAS box just sit there doing nothing but use electricity most of the time?

In reply to MG:

I've been messing around with this for a while. As well as the NAS and a streaming device you might want a device such as a tablet to control the music playing from the NAS. At the moment I'm using a Synology NAS controlled using Synology's app on an iPad. This streams using Apple Airplay to either an AppleTV or a portable player. The NAS doesn't use a great deal of power when it's doing nothing. My NAS is claimed to be quiet, but it ain't that quiet. I can hear it clicking away. Obviously this isn't a problem if you listen exclusively to thrash metal.

In reply to MG:


It doesn't sound like you have a lot of music on your computer so a NAS box would seem overkill. I went for a HIFI with USB input which is more than enough for the 20G of music I have in non cd digital format.

In reply to MG:

How would you like to go all modern for the astronomical price of £24-99?

Before considering a NAS box, you could start off small and use the kit you have and include a Bluetooth adapter which plugs into your CD player/speakers.

A Bluetooth adapter would then turn your CD Player/speakers into a music streamer. Simply put, all your music is either on your computer, phone, tablet, laptop or suchlike and you use the astronomically expensive Bluetooth device to send your music to your CD Player/speakers. The only downside to Bluetooth is that you can NOT connect more than one speaker to it at a time. This may be fine for the moment however in the future you may want speakers all over the house. This is a great idea, but costs mucho mucho beer tokens.

If you like the set-up, then you can expand by thinking about buying a NAS box and wifi speakers in the future. I'd start small with something like this.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-AEA2000-05-Bluetooth-Adapter/dp/B00ABJ7N6E/...

In reply to MG:

I bit the bullet on this last year. I had a good amp, speakers and cd system, and couldn't find anything that would let me match the sound digitally. But my cd habit was a) expensive and b) taking up shelf space my kids wanted for dvds, while my other half couldn't understand why we had to have a turntable in the living room in 2013. So I went for a sonos connect, which hooked up my amp to the nas drive I already had with some digital music. Never regretted it and now have a sonos 3 in the kitchen which extends the network. Have spend many an hour ripping my cd collection on to the nas drive (which in turn is backed up in the cloud) and can't remember the last time I turned the cd player on.

There are downsides. sonos is an expensive system, though there are now cheaper competitors. They do have low constant burn of electricity - but then so does your router. I bought an external cd drive to do the ripping (partly because warner bros are formatted to prevent ripping on a read/write player so you need a read only one). I've also found that while digital music is cheaper, going back and re-purchasing your vinyl collection more that compensates for that. But as I say, never regretted it. I now listen to music more frequently, and re-discovering all those long forgotten singles has been a joy,

In reply to MG:

Thanks for all the thoughts.

In reply to MG:

Internet Radio?

I have one and it's incredible. I can access radio programmes and music from all over the World.

There is an amazing choice of stations out here.

In reply to MG:

As I suggested here - http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=603225#x7931829 - it might be worth taking a look at the spec for your router. The Technicolor 582n supplied by many ISPs has a USB port that can take a USB hard drive and create a network file server and DLNA media server... Whilst the manual says that NTFS support is 'optional', it's obviously not a fitted option on my Tesco-supplied router. So there's a 4GB file size limit imposed by FAT32 that it does support. Certainly worth a bit of a play.

Then you'll need a Digital Media Renderer; a bit of electronics connected to your network (wired or wifi) running software to receive a media stream and convert it to audio. The bit of electronics can be anything from an Android phone or tablet, through to stupidly expensive audiophile things, and the software might be something like BubbleUPnP, costing £3 or so. If you have a smart TV or smart Blu-Ray player, they might have DMR functions. Again, worth looking at the specs of what you already have in the house; look for 'DLNA' or 'UPnP' in the manual.

I'm currently part way through this process, and still looking for a cheap hardware platform for the renderer:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=603783

I may investigate one of the small Linux platforms like Gumstix or RaspberryPi, or buy a cheap, dedicated DMR from somewhere like 7dayshop, or even buy a cheap, 2nd hand Android phone, maybe with a broken screen... After all, I'm just after the headphone socket...

I've been using MediaMonkey to manage and play my music for a few years now, and the library now lives on a small NAS. New CDs get ripped and added to the library via MediaMonkey, which also plays music when I'm working on the PC.

There are many 'UPnP Players' out there, but most of them are actually Digital Media Controllers, which read the database held by the Server, and instruct it to stream media to a DMR. Linn Kinsky seems quite a nice, simple, free DMC, and can control streaming to multiple 'rooms' (actually, to multiple DMRs, but on the assumption that you'll have one DMR per room). I've had three Android tablets, each playing different music, controlled by Kinsky on an iPad...

The cheapest way to "go digital"? Buy a 3.5mm stereo jack plug to stereo phono plug lead from your local pound store, plug it into the headphone output of your PC/laptop, and plug the phono end into the Aux input of your hifi. Use one of a number of programs to rip your CDs to HDD, manage your music library and play music. I would suggest MediaMonkey. I would not recommend iTunes.

It does need the PC to be on to play music, of course, and that's what drove me down the NAS route; small, low power box, always on, ready to stream media. Can even stream remotely if you pick the right NAS and enable remote access.

In reply to mav:


+ 1 for Sonos from me too.

It is, was, expensive but nothing can compete with the sound quality and versatility of Sonos.

Bluetooth is a taister of the power of digital music at home.

Guess who's getting a Sonos Play 1 for Christmas, to complement his other toys?

In reply to MG:

I have a Logitech squeezebox which is fantastic, especially the ability to also listen to internet radio and all my podcasts. Only downside (don't know if it's the same for sonos) is my wee laptop needs to be on to access my music library but not the radio or podcasts.
It's small, unobtrusive and cheaper than sonos. I recommend.

In reply to yer maw:

Details aside, are Sonos Connect, squeeze box etc all basically similar things that pick up music signals from a nasbox, the internet or whatever?

In reply to MG:


Yes - look at the Pure Jongo stuff as an alternative.

In reply to Kipper:

Or the Olive One looks interesting: http://www.myoliveone.com/

In reply to MG:

Couldn't you simply transfer all your music to your computer and then feed it to your amplifier/speakers via a DAC (Digital to Audio Converter)?
It's what I've done and works a treat.

http://www.richersounds.com/products/hi-fi-separates/separates/dacs

In reply to MG:

I am no audiophile, but I like the Logitech Bluetooth adapter that works fine with my 30 year old amp and speakers.

It means I can stream from any Bluetooth device. No noticeable drop in sound quality.

In reply to FactorXXX:

Or, simpler still, just put your music on a small computer (I use a mac mini, but others are available) and plug the audio-out from the computer into one of the lines in on your amp. The only complication in this scenario is where you put the screen for the computer, or if you try to run it without a screen using a phone or tablet as a remote. I get around this by also running my TV through the computer.

The only reason you need a DAC is if you have such a keen ear that the built-in DAC in the computer offends your sensibilities.

In reply to Oujmik:

Or, simpler still, just put your music on a small computer (I use a mac mini, but others are available) and plug the audio-out from the computer into one of the lines in on your amp. The only complication in this scenario is where you put the screen for the computer, or if you try to run it without a screen using a phone or tablet as a remote. I get around this by also running my TV through the computer.

One thing not clear from the OP, is whether or not he wants the music accessible on a network, etc. If it's just for playing music through a single output, then he might as well just use his current PC for storage, though that obviously depends on size/location, etc.


The only reason you need a DAC is if you have such a keen ear that the built-in DAC in the computer offends your sensibilities.

I listen to a lot of my music through headphones and the difference is then quite apparent. Another advantage of a DAC, is that if you can plug a pair of headphones straight into the DAC without an amplifier and get an immediate and very loud volume boost...
You're right though, you don't really need a DAC and you can just plug the amplifier into a PC and off you go.

In reply to FactorXXX:

Probably want at least the potential to access music in various rooms etc. Also, I don't want to have my PC permanently on.

In reply to MG:

Probably want at least the potential to access music in various rooms etc. Also, I don't want to have my PC permanently on.

Sorry, can't help you as that's essentially the opposite of what I do!!!

Best thing, would be look at old threads by 'The Lemming'. He's bound to have asked advice about this in the past when he's managed to to mess up his own attempt to set up such a system...

In reply to

You'll need a NAS then; ie something that can store your files and 'serve' them up to whatever machine needs them without having to go via your PC.

Think about three things:
- A media server (a disk with your files on and some kind of basic software to 'present' them to other machines - NAS units can do this)
- A music renderer (a machine that can read the files and translate them into music; this could be some software on a computer/phone, or it could be a networked music player)
- A media controller (something that controls the above; could be a third bit of software/hardware like a phone app, or it could be the same bit of software as your renderer mediamonkey on a networked laptop)

The simplest model really is a NAS and then a networked music player of some sort. Lots of hifis, AV receivers, Wifi speakers etc come with the right functionality. Look for things that are 'DLNA' compliant, as this is the most common protocol for getting everything linked together. The NAS will 'serve up' a database of media information and the renderer will have some kind of interface for you to look at it eg. by looking at your albums, artists, genres, playlists. Most brands now also have android and apple apps that act as controllers; this is nice as you can then use a proper screen and keyboard to browse your music on your NAS, and then just 'point' it at your renderer and it will play.

You could just set up a NAS and use your phone or possibly a cheap tablet (eg a Tesco Hudl) as controller/renderer with a 3.5mm jack feeding into your stereo. My HTC phone actually has very good sound quality doing this, but this approach won't be as good as a dedicated network player that has a really good DAC for converting the file into good quality analogue signals for your speakers. If you want a 'quick and dirty' solution, this is it. Obviously you will need to move your phone/tablet around or have one in each room where you need music, but for £200 you could have a NAS and a dedicated 'player' to travel round the house.

Sonos has come up with a much more sophisticated alternative to DLNA so that lots of speaker/players can be controlled and synced very easily. To get this functionality you have to buy their hardware; check their website as it's quite easy to understand. Sonos will happily read off a NAS.

One thing to note: DLNA is rubbish if you want to throw a party with music synced between rooms. It can be done (just), but it's hit and miss and normally each machine just renders the music with whatever delay it wants/needs so the timing is different from room to room. Sonos has addressed this and is therefore a much better choice for this application.

Mark

In reply to hamsforlegs:

The downside of NAS's is they have a tendency to suddenly fail, so you need to have some form of back-up to restore your files when this happens. Sorry, this is a bit of a hijack, but does anyone know of any online back-up companies that will read off NAS's on your network? There are a few out there who will automatically back up lap top files, but all the ones I've looked at will detect NAS drives and refuse to take files off them. I can understand why, but its a pain. As a result I'm using various manual back-up methods (flickr for photos, amazon for music) but both require me to instigate the storage, so I'm permanently at risk of losing recent changes should my NAS blow-up.

In reply to hamsforlegs:

Super helpful. Thanks!!

In reply to hamsforlegs:


Could you go simpler and just have a Hudl as the music player and storage (64GB card in it)? Just bluetooth it to hifi you want to use?

In reply to MG:

With my Synology NAS I can switch it on and off remotely (using my phone).

So it doesn't need to be on all the time and I don't have to run up two flights of stairs to switch it on.

In reply to MG:

hamsforlegs expressed it more succinctly and logically than I did, since I referred to a previous thread for a description of the three elements of a networked media system; DMS, DMR & DMC.

I'd still strongly advise you to look at the kit you already have in the house; your router may offer the facility to provide the DMS, and your TV or DVD may offer DMR. There are plenty of DMC apps for phones and tablets. There are also plenty of apps that provide DMC/DMR facilities, including a DMR that can be controlled by a separate DMC (my experiments suggest UPnPlay and UPnP Monkey as free apps, and Bubble UPnP as a paid for app).

Last night's playing with 'party mode' in UPnP Monkey back up what hamsforlegs says about simultaneous streaming to multiple DMRs; on the rare occasions that they started up in sync, they drifted out of sync as the track played, probably because the DMR DAC is the ultimate sample timing reference, and these clocks will be running at slightly different frequencies (VoIP has the same problem, but the VoIP spec allows for buffer repeat or drop if the sync error gets too big). Sonos must somehow synchronise the sample clocks to a master, and ensure true simulcast of the media streams to each DMR...

In reply to mav:

Goodsync and Easeus will do this for sure; I use Goodsync for file backup and Easeus for systemic stuff. Both paid for if you want full functionality - can't remember offhand what the free versions limitations are.

In reply to Mike Stretford:


Definitely. Bit more of a faff to sync all your music to as you have to plug it in, but would certainly work.

Would still want a NAS if you acquired a new TV/Amp etc with DLNA rendering.

For a long time the answer that everyone used was to dump everything onto an ipod and use a dock; the same principle still works fine!

In reply to MG:

Other major consideration - is this just for music or would you (now or in the future) be looking to stream video too?

Depending on your amp (is it just audio or an AV receiver?) - there are these options to consider:

1) Chromecast - Plugged into rear or AV receiver (i.e. HDMI port). You can upload 20,000 of your own songs for free, plus if you want to, £9.99 per month gets you Google version's of Spotify. I now use this for most music playing - AV receiver downstairs, controlled via phone, when upstairs, I can use Google Music to play tunes from my PC. Added bonus that you can also use this to play YouTube/iPlayer/IFSC bouldering comps on the telly

2) USB stick into Amp. I personally think a NAS would be massive overkill if it's just for music. If you just want to play MP3s, you can get a 64/128GB usb stick, stick it into the amp and then play away - cheap and silent. Some amps have built-in DNLA to push this out to other devices.
If however you also wanted to setup a network drive for backups of photos, shared drives etc, a NAS could be good. If you want it to act as a standalone media player (i.e. plays music directly rather than via a PC) you'll need to spend a bit more to let it transcode (change the file from 1's and 0's into tunes/videos)

3) Cheap notebook & XBMC
You can pick up old netbooks for well under £50 on eBay - spec for just playing music is minimal. As long as it runs a basic version of Windows (or, even better, if you're happy installing XBMCbuntu - kodi.wiki/view/XBMCbuntu ) you could just install XBMC, stick all your music on it, connect it to your Amp, again controlling it with your phone.
(Similar to XBMC is Plex - but you have to pay for the app...)


I ran number 3 for ages and it was great - control music with the phone, but then can use the netbook to organise/add music when required.
I then upgraded to a full AV receiver so have switched to the Chromecast method and this is groovy too.

In reply to hamsforlegs:

Thanks - I'll have a look.

In reply to Mike Stretford:


Whilst I have a spare Hudl, I tend to use it as a tablet, and probably intend to use it as the media controller.

On the other hand, you can buy generic 'Android media' boxes for about £35 that are essentially AV Hudls, since some of them use the same Rockchip RK3188 quad core processor as the Hudl... They have more dedicated I/O though; AV jack, HDMI, USBs & Ethernet. This may be the route I follow. They're cheap because they lack the display, battery, etc and ship direct from China... And with a 5V, 2A supply, they'll take less than 10W, so about the same as a NAS...

Oh, and since you can stick a USB HDD on them, it can be your DMS. And probably offer NAS function, too...

In reply to captain paranoia:


Good call - I'd forgotten about this approach and have never used it myself. Well worth exploring.

In reply to captain paranoia:

So this would be plugged in to my hifi - USB to amplifier?? - and basically replace the NAS and Streamer? Sounds a much cheaper option.

In reply to MG:


Not sure how complicated it would be to stream via USB; you'd probably use the HDMI via your TV or use the audio bit of the AV jack and connect to the RCAs on your hifi.

You'd need a hard disc to plug in and hold the files as well. It might not turn out to be very basic to make it act as a NAS for the rest of your house; worth researching in advance unless you want a tech challenge!

You could use it just to replace the streamer. ie buy a cheapish NAS and then use the box just to stream; connect it to your TV and you will also get a nice interface to use in your living room.

In reply to MG:

Yes, for music, you'd take the 3.5mm AV jack output (3 pole - L/R/Video) and connect it to the Aux or CD phono input of your amp. Or the one I've been looking at also has an optical SPDIF output, so could connect to a DAC or AV amp.

And, yes, you'd connect an HDD (or high capacity USB stick) to it via USB, and get one of the many UPnP apps to catalogue and serve the media to your network, or, locally to your amp. But, as hams says, do a bit of research first. But my recent playing suggests that all the UPnP apps I've tried will look at the 'local file system', so I think it's a low-risk route; test with your tablet...

Once you have music working, you could think about video and the HDMI port. Have a look at the 'Android UPnP renderer' thread In posted above; the Lemming made a number of suggestions, and I listed the apps I've been playing with. Here's the link again:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=603783

In reply to MG:

interesting thread, all of the digital sources recommended will include or need some form of DAC to present an analogue signal to the OP's existing amplifier. You can send a lot of money on a DAC or not so much. What is folk's experience of internal DACs (that I presume are built into Sonus etc?) compared to posher external DACs?

In reply to kevin stephens:

My ears are shot with tinnitus and top end roll-off (or possibly self-quieting due to the tinnitus), so I'm afraid I'm not in much position to comment on the "super ear and no instruments" audiophile brigade. Most DACs in tablets/'Android media boxes' are 24-bit, so it's unlikely to be the DAC itself, more to do with the power supply, clock and coupling improvements in "audiophile" DACs. But, as an electronic engineer, I've always been rather sceptical of high end audio stuff...

In reply to captain paranoia:

Quality advice - some interesting ideas there for me too.

In reply to MG: Sonos is the way to go when it comes to streaming music.

In reply to kevin stephens:


Probably depends on the rest of your kit? If I use the output from my laptop it's noticeably worse through virtually any equipment, but I have to use my headphones oto hear the difference between my £100 Cambridge mini-DAC, my Sony receiver's DAC, or even (for some stuff) my phone (my headphones are by far the best piece of audio kit I own). . They do have different characters though, and this comes out more in some material than others. My other kit is all relatively cheap in hifi terms (system worth a grand or so); if I was running a mid-fi setup worth a few thousand I might notice/care a lot more. That said, if I'm properly listening to well produced music at decent volume I do prefer the Cambridge external unit, and it makes a difference to my enjoyment. On the other hand, I can vouch for the fact that at £100 it produces excellent sound (Cambridge DACMagic XS).

I visited a Richer Sounds recently and looked at some of the all-in-one wireless units from Cambridge and Sony - they were shockingly good, and I can't imagine that Sonos have allowed themselves to be far off that pace.

In reply to captain paranoia:


I'm sure you're right re the DACs - a lot of the chips are shared across kit at loads of different price points. I haven't had any experience of real high-end audio but there is a faint whiff of the magic show about it all!

In reply to hamsforlegs:

Indeed, and this variation is sometimes quite marked.

My first CD player was a little portable unit, bought from John Lewis back in 1989. It wasn't a well-known brand name, but the sound it produced was excellent. At the time, I was travelling by train on work secondment, and carried the player in my briefcase, along with a fairly large 6V sealed lead-acid battery, and wore large Sennheiser headphones. Which was very unusual at the time, since most people had migrated to in-ear phones by that point. I notice huge headphones are now very much in vogue... The sound quality was excellent, and it worked perfectly well when replayed through my Arcam amp & speakers.

Over the years, I've picked up a couple of cheap portable CD players; one a Philips unit from Richer sounds, which had appalling, muffled sound, and a Sony unit (£1 in a charity shop), which has excellent sound. Then there are the cheap MP3 players, some of which have decent audio (played into decent headphones or amp), some not so decent. And now tablets, with similar experience. Or TVs, whose tiny speakers (limited by flat screen dimensions) give feeble, tinny sound, but take the headphone output to an external amp, and you can get excellent sound.

Whilst there is some variation in the quality of the actual DAC chips used, by far the most significant effect on sound quality is the analogue components surrounding it, mostly the output filtering and signal output coupling components, then the power supply and/or PCB layout, then the sample clock, in approximate descending order of significance.

So my earlier comment was a little glib (and sticking too rigidly to my engineer's view that the DAC is the DAC chip, rather than entire ensemble of components). Yes, the performance of the 'ensemble DAC' does vary, but I don't think that performance can be easily correlated with price. I'm sure if you pay £100+ for a DAC, it will sound great. But that doesn't mean that a cheaper DAC will necessarily perform noticeably any poorer.

As for the 'character' of the DAC, yes, this often comes out in hifi reviews (of all types of equipment), saying that they may be better suited to certain genres of music; smooth for classical, punchy for rock, etc.

In reply to icnoble:


Well, Sonos is one way to go when it comes to streaming music. But it's a proprietary way, so you're locked into their technology, and can only buy more Sonos units if you want to extend your system. If you want single-speaker units, then they may be cost-effective. If you want to stream to an existing hifi (and why not), it's the £279 Connect. That's a lot of money, IMHO.

In reply to MG:

So this seems like the place to ask my question. At present I've a mid end separates based home cinema and stereo system. At present I mostly play music by hooking up my laptop with a long AV cable. However this is limiting in where I've to locate the laptop and the Mrs really, really, really dislikes the stereo cables. OH and my preference is to use media monkey as the media player.

So Ideally what i'd like to be able to do is get something that I can plug into the amp that I can stream on the wireless network using the media monkey player. I'm guessing based on what's been said earlier something like an android device that came stream the media monkey Pnp. So any help would be greatly appreciated.

In reply to Frank4short:
[goes off to PC. fires up MM]

Tools/Options/Player/Choose Player/UPnP-DLNA Renderer
select the DMR device you want to play to.

That's it.

Just tested it, and it's happily streaming music to the UPnPlay DMR running on the broken screen Android tablet in the bedroom. Hmm... it doesn't seem to advance to the next track in 'Now Playing'...

So, you'd need a DMR of some kind, as discussed above, ranging from salvaged obsolete phone or tablet, though to fancy audiophile DAC costing £4000... Pick the price/quality you want. Experiment with an Android phone running the free UPnPlay app.

Oh, and the laptop will need to have WiFi (or wired Ethernet) access to your home network.

MM is supposed to be able to offer a DMS, running as a background task when you start up your PC. But I couldn't get it to work like that, and I didn't want to have to have my PC running all the time, so I moved my attention to Twonky running on the NAS. Whuch ?I finally got working.

I confess that the one thing I'm missing with all the DMC apps I've tried so far is Media Monkey's AutoDJ function. I have so much music (65k+ tracks), and I'm so indecisive, that it would be a hideous faff to have to create playlists, etc. Even the Android MediaMonkey app doesn't seem to have AutoDJ, so I'm beginning to suspect that it's an issue of needing to have a copy of the database to pick from; MM on the PC has its local database, and a DMS has its database, but the DMC apps interrogate these databases, and don't keep a local copy themselves. So the only knowledge they have of available media is when they look at the DMS database.

In reply to captain paranoia:

http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=77473

You need MM 4.1+ to be able to 'play to UPnP DMR'. I'm using 4.1.5

The failure to skip to the next track seems to be an issue with MM/UPnPlay interaction, as XBMC and UPnP Monkey DMRs both advance without problem.

In reply to captain paranoia:
2player app can be found here:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.twoplay.twoplayer2&hl=en_...

Looks pretty good so far, thanks. Another one to add to the list, even if it is paid for (£2.51).

d'oh wrong thread...

In reply to captain paranoia:

I don't agree that it is expensive. Most of my music is stored on one of these. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Buffalo-LS-QUAD-4TB-Linkstation-Quad/dp/B00F2JJ0K0/...

It is configured as raid 5 so up to 2 hardrives can fail and my data is safe. One drive failed recently and after installing a new one it only took a few hours to rebuild the raid. The main reason I chose the Sonos was because of the sound quality which is very good. Currently I have 120gb of music, most of which is at a bit rate of 320kbs or lossless. I use iTunes as the interface to transfer the music onto the nas. Once you get used to using iTunes it's fine. The sonos app is also has a very good interface.

In reply to captain paranoia:

So i've got a western digital WDTVlive box. And it's now happily playing MM using the trick you've just explained.

Therefore in summary. You sir are a star. Thank you very much.

In reply to icnoble:

Well, value for money will always be a relative term, but, considering how much consumer electronics you could get for the £279 price of the Sonos Connect DAC, it looks expensive in absolute terms. So, unless they've gone down the audiophile path of using rare materials (gold interconnect, unicorn hooves, etc), then we're into amortising dev costs, or perceived value. And, given the numbers of Sonos units sold, I think we're well into perceived value territory. But, as I said earlier, I'm a tight git...

I went down the NAS route when my music collection got too big for the 1.25 TB external HDD I stored it on.

As for iTunes, well, I know I'm not alone in my views; google 'itunes shit' gives 23.3 million hits... I like things that work the way I do (or the way I tell them to). MediaMonkey does. iTunes doesn't. Each to his own, though; if iTunes works for you, I'm happy for you.

In reply to Frank4short:
No worries; I learned something useful too...

It's also a good example of my earlier point; check the capabilities of the kit you've already got. In your case, MM will stream media to UPnP, and your WDTVlive box will receive UPnP streams and render them.

Additional outlay required for wireless media? Zero. That's the sort of price I like...

In reply to captain paranoia:

So far from a functionality perspective it works quite well. However the sound is a bit flat though i'm unsure whether that's as a result of the cold from hell which just won't feck off which could potentially be affecting my hearing or whether the audio processing capability of the WD unit is perhaps not as good as i'd like.

So if I were to just blow the bank and buy a separate unit with better sound quality, that will also connect wirelessly to my network, what sort of thing should i be looking at? As the DA converters mentioned further up the thread all appear to be separates type units without the wireless interconnectivity that I/the Mrs. desire.

In reply to MG:

I got all my music on my iPad. The music is wifi'ed to my Apple Airport Express which is hardwired to my stereo set using a minijack to rca cable. Simple.

In reply to Frank4short:

You need to determine where the limitation lies. For instance, what connection are you using between WDTV box and your HiFi? HDMI? AV jack? TOSLINK optical interface?

My guess is that you're using the HDMI, since you've been using the WDTV for TV and video up to now. Correct? So, first of all, try the AV output from the 3.5mm jack; get a 4-pole 3.5mm jack to L/R/V phono (RCA) lead, and plug it into an Aux input of the amp. This will then use the DAC in the WDTV box, rather than the DAC at the end of the HDMI. I'm not sure of the number of bits & sample rate of HDMI audio.

If the WDTV DAC isn't good enough, look to get a DAC that accepts the optical TOSLINK SPDIF stream.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOSLINK

It's interesting that you're comparing the sound quality with your previous experience with the headphone output from the laptop, and you find the latter preferable. This illustrates my earlier point that 'cheap' (the laptop audio o/p) doesn't necessarily mean 'crap'.

In reply to MG:

I wish I understood any of this, it sounds fascinating, and I'm sure I'd like to stream, and remote, and have multimedia from my computer all over the house.

But I cannot even get my tv and chromecast to work when using a VIP.

In reply to captain paranoia:


The WDTV is already handling the network connectivity and streaming stuff, so there's no need to replicate that unnecessarily. I picked up a Belkin TOSLINK cable in the 99p store recently; they had a whole bunch of different Belkin cables. I saw one in Homebase today selling at £18...

In reply to captain paranoia:

you've obviously not read the hifi mags reviews of audiophile TOSLINK fibre optic cables, you should be spending at least £99 to prevent cosmic rays distorting those flashing light 1s and 0s

In reply to MG:
Great knowledge on here way beyond me. All agreed Hi fi is great and I love the way we can stream stuff now too, but put the CDs in when I still want that moment of sonic pleasure. I hope you all pay for your music😉 I do.

In reply to MG:
Hunting about for a second hand turntable too. Reckon some good deals after Xmas.

In reply to yer maw:
All my music is ripped by me to FLAC. So I get the same experience with streamed music as I get with the CD.

As for second-hand turntables, I'm annoyed that I didn't snap up the Project TT I saw in my local Oxfam for £70 recently...

In reply to yer maw:


I'm thinking about doing the same or seeing what new Pro-Ject TTs are around in the sales.

In reply to Skipinder:
Rega planar 2 s and 3 s often come up on eBay , with an rb300 arm and a reasonable cartridge these are probably better than the projects.
Edit : just had a look , there a really nice planar 3 , rb300, grado cartridge at the moment . That would be a really nice setup for anybody looking . ( no connection just saying like) .

In reply to mike123:

I may have to see if my brother still has his Rega set up...

In reply to stroppygob & yer maw:

Which bits are you having trouble understanding? I'm happy to try to explain at an appropriate level. Being an electronic engineer with some experience of implementing streaming audio systems at hardware and software levels gives me a slight advantage, but it certainly doesn't mean that I get everything working instantly, or that I don't sometimes sit there swearing fulsomely at inexplicably uncooperative software...

From a user perspective, it's not really that difficult once you understand the three basic elements of DMS, DMC & DMR; the difficulty lies in selecting the appropriate elements to make such a system, and controlling them to work how you need; the setting to get MediaMonkey to stream music the Frank4short's WDTV box, for instance, is pretty simple. If you know what sort of setting it is you're looking for... It took me a few seconds to find, but I've been using MM for a few years now, and have a good understanding of its options menu system.

In reply to captain paranoia:


You are correct, of course in this. It uses the same software as the Sonos 1 & 3 which are both cheaper. the connct is probably the most overpriced bit of the range. Unfortunately if like me you want to hook up the your existing hifi amp/speakers with the Sonos 3 in the kitchen, and hopefully another to follow elsewhere after Santa visits, it becomes a necessary evil.

In reply to mav:

The cheapest way to hook an expensive HiFi to your digital music, MP3 or FLAC, is with a cheap Bluetooth adapter. OK, you can only connect one HiFi device through Bluetooth, but if it is the bee's knees then this will breath new life into your music collection.