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As armchair mountaineers my girlfriend and I have decided to visit Chamonix in the summer to get a taste of real alpine goodness. We have some relevant experience - scrambling, easy multi-pitch trad etc but we have no winter skills or kit bar one session at ice factor in Kinlochleven. We'll be back in our spiritual home of Ogwen to rack up some more experience on 'alpine style' routes in spring.
We're getting all the maps and books etc to do our own research (I was more excited than I probably should have been over the arrival of the maps) but looking for some personal recommendations of non-glacial routes which can be climbed in climbing shoes or walking boots. We're fully expecting to have to cross snow slopes, so will be looking into walking axes and some training in how to use them but we don't have the appetite for crevasse crossing or mixed climbing right now.
I'd been looking at stuff in the aiguilles rouges around l'Index lift. We'd also consider hiring a guide/kit if it meant we could do something in the high mountains such as the cosmiques arete, but really this is all new ground to me, so any advice is welcome.
We're getting all the maps and books etc to do our own research (I was more excited than I probably should have been over the arrival of the maps) but looking for some personal recommendations of non-glacial routes which can be climbed in climbing shoes or walking boots. We're fully expecting to have to cross snow slopes, so will be looking into walking axes and some training in how to use them but we don't have the appetite for crevasse crossing or mixed climbing right now.
I'd been looking at stuff in the aiguilles rouges around l'Index lift. We'd also consider hiring a guide/kit if it meant we could do something in the high mountains such as the cosmiques arete, but really this is all new ground to me, so any advice is welcome.
In reply to Oujmik:
The SE arete of L'Index is good, if a little bit polished with access either across a grassy ledge or a small snow field depending on conditions, the route itself is purely on rock. Via Corda Alpina is a fantastic long and easy bolted multipitch route which would be perfect for practicing moving together on, it starts from the valley floor. By the sound of things you want to get a hold of these guidebooks:
http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Books-Maps-DVDs/Foreign-Climbing-Guid...
http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Books-Maps-DVDs/Foreign-Climbing-Guid...
The first one is mostly multipitch and I believe doesn't contain any routes which require glacier travel, but does contain a few routes which require ice axes and crampons for access.
The second one is mostly 1 or 2 pitch valley cragging but also includes some really long easy multipitch.
The Cosmiques arete definitely requires you to be happy with glacier travel, crevasse rescue and movement on snow/ ice, the majority of other routes on that side of the valley will also require all 3 to some degree. I'd highly recommend getting the knowledge on glacier travel and so on as it hugely opens up your options, if you're young enough it would be worth your while applying for a conville course which are really worthwhile doing.
The SE arete of L'Index is good, if a little bit polished with access either across a grassy ledge or a small snow field depending on conditions, the route itself is purely on rock. Via Corda Alpina is a fantastic long and easy bolted multipitch route which would be perfect for practicing moving together on, it starts from the valley floor. By the sound of things you want to get a hold of these guidebooks:
http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Books-Maps-DVDs/Foreign-Climbing-Guid...
http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Books-Maps-DVDs/Foreign-Climbing-Guid...
The first one is mostly multipitch and I believe doesn't contain any routes which require glacier travel, but does contain a few routes which require ice axes and crampons for access.
The second one is mostly 1 or 2 pitch valley cragging but also includes some really long easy multipitch.
The Cosmiques arete definitely requires you to be happy with glacier travel, crevasse rescue and movement on snow/ ice, the majority of other routes on that side of the valley will also require all 3 to some degree. I'd highly recommend getting the knowledge on glacier travel and so on as it hugely opens up your options, if you're young enough it would be worth your while applying for a conville course which are really worthwhile doing.
In reply to Oujmik:
The Floria and the Belvedere are two great peaks in the Aiguilles Rouges to do in a scrambling style with a bit of a taste of axe and snow on the approach. The view from the Floria in particular is smashing.
There's some great climbs of various grades (with 4-7ish pitches) on the lower bastion of the Floria, too, that are easier to approach and get away from with axe and boots, but need rock shoes for the actual rocky bits.
The Floria and the Belvedere are two great peaks in the Aiguilles Rouges to do in a scrambling style with a bit of a taste of axe and snow on the approach. The view from the Floria in particular is smashing.
There's some great climbs of various grades (with 4-7ish pitches) on the lower bastion of the Floria, too, that are easier to approach and get away from with axe and boots, but need rock shoes for the actual rocky bits.
Post edited at 17:10
In reply to Oujmik:
If you haven't climbed in the Alps, and have little snow and ice experience, I would not recommend Chamonix. You would be better off in a lower, less glaciated area. For a similar style of climbing to the best Cham rock routes (ie on granite) I would suggest the Bregaglia. It's also much quieter, especially in the valleys, and has hundreds of fantastic routes of all standards. I would suggest Bondo as your perfect base. In fact, the Aig. Rouges are not granite at all but some inferior grey stuff. If you went to the Bregaglia you could work up to something like the Badile north ridge, for which no ice axe is necessary, but which takes you to the top of a great mountain by a fabulous line.
If you haven't climbed in the Alps, and have little snow and ice experience, I would not recommend Chamonix. You would be better off in a lower, less glaciated area. For a similar style of climbing to the best Cham rock routes (ie on granite) I would suggest the Bregaglia. It's also much quieter, especially in the valleys, and has hundreds of fantastic routes of all standards. I would suggest Bondo as your perfect base. In fact, the Aig. Rouges are not granite at all but some inferior grey stuff. If you went to the Bregaglia you could work up to something like the Badile north ridge, for which no ice axe is necessary, but which takes you to the top of a great mountain by a fabulous line.
In reply to Oujmik:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=229660
Voie Caline is very good, not to be missed!
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=229660
Voie Caline is very good, not to be missed!
In reply to Oujmik:
Thanks for the tips. Voie Caline definitely looks like a good call for a valley-day and the stuff in the aiguilles rouges looks great.
We're already booked in Chamonix, so the destination is fixed. We know that the Mont Blanc massif is largely out of our reach (except via the cable car, which we will definitely be taking), but at least we'll get to see the iconic peaks of the alps...
The barrier to entry into high alpine stuff seems so high - virtually all the routes require glacier walking which requires both of a party of two to be able to arrest and then rescue the other whilst remaining in self arrest, I can't realistically see us ever wanting to try that although I'd love to experience the sensation of climbing the highest ridges among snow covered mountains...
Thanks for the tips. Voie Caline definitely looks like a good call for a valley-day and the stuff in the aiguilles rouges looks great.
We're already booked in Chamonix, so the destination is fixed. We know that the Mont Blanc massif is largely out of our reach (except via the cable car, which we will definitely be taking), but at least we'll get to see the iconic peaks of the alps...
The barrier to entry into high alpine stuff seems so high - virtually all the routes require glacier walking which requires both of a party of two to be able to arrest and then rescue the other whilst remaining in self arrest, I can't realistically see us ever wanting to try that although I'd love to experience the sensation of climbing the highest ridges among snow covered mountains...
In reply to Oujmik:
The barrier may seem high, until you put in the effort and go on a course or train via a club or something. After a bit of practice you will realize that it is not that complicated. Just a few systems and skills to learn. Then it opens endless opportunities. Many people form my old country -- including my climbing partner -- do all that without ever having done any rock climbing, which you probably think is straightforward.
> The barrier to entry into high alpine stuff seems so high - virtually all the routes require glacier walking which requires both of a party of two to be able to arrest and then rescue the other whilst remaining in self arrest, I can't realistically see us ever wanting to try that although I'd love to experience the sensation of climbing the highest ridges among snow covered mountains...
The barrier may seem high, until you put in the effort and go on a course or train via a club or something. After a bit of practice you will realize that it is not that complicated. Just a few systems and skills to learn. Then it opens endless opportunities. Many people form my old country -- including my climbing partner -- do all that without ever having done any rock climbing, which you probably think is straightforward.
In reply to Oujmik:
There's always Aiguille d l'M. The normal route is mostly scrambling. There are a couple of short routes on the face (N?) that overlooks Chamonix, but these are about VS from memory.
There's always Aiguille d l'M. The normal route is mostly scrambling. There are a couple of short routes on the face (N?) that overlooks Chamonix, but these are about VS from memory.
In reply to Oujmik:
I enjoyed Chapelle de la Gliere, a fun rock-climbing day out. Might be a bit of snow around depending on when you go.
Despite what people say, it can easily take a full day if you're not so efficient and there's people in front.
We stayed at the hut the evening after (and left stuff in the morning) which meant we didn't have to rush to get the last lift. She was also happy to delay my dinner till I got back. I just phoned her from the top.
I enjoyed Chapelle de la Gliere, a fun rock-climbing day out. Might be a bit of snow around depending on when you go.
Despite what people say, it can easily take a full day if you're not so efficient and there's people in front.
We stayed at the hut the evening after (and left stuff in the morning) which meant we didn't have to rush to get the last lift. She was also happy to delay my dinner till I got back. I just phoned her from the top.
1
In reply to Oujmik:
Well in theory, yes, though frankly I doubt my ability to realistically be able to do this should the situation crop up. I suspect Glacier rescue in the Alps in Summer would be most likely digging in and then screaming for help from the nearest passing Guide.
Anyway, you've picked an odd choice of venue if you have no interest in learning Glacier travel. Going to Chamonix and only climbing in the Aiguilles Rouges would be like driving to Glencoe and never getting out of the car.
> The barrier to entry into high alpine stuff seems so high - virtually all the routes require glacier walking which requires both of a party of two to be able to arrest and then rescue the other whilst remaining in self arrest, I can't realistically see us ever wanting to try that although I'd love to experience the sensation of climbing the highest ridges among snow covered mountains...
Well in theory, yes, though frankly I doubt my ability to realistically be able to do this should the situation crop up. I suspect Glacier rescue in the Alps in Summer would be most likely digging in and then screaming for help from the nearest passing Guide.
Anyway, you've picked an odd choice of venue if you have no interest in learning Glacier travel. Going to Chamonix and only climbing in the Aiguilles Rouges would be like driving to Glencoe and never getting out of the car.
In reply to wilkesley:
was going to suggest the M, the OP doesn't say what grade they climb, but the NNE ridge is severe/vs with routes on the N face more like HVS but purely rock.
There are also purely rock routes such as the Pappillons arete on the Peigne and by the Refuge d'Envers. But as said, Chamonix is an odd choice if you want to avoid glaciers/snow
was going to suggest the M, the OP doesn't say what grade they climb, but the NNE ridge is severe/vs with routes on the N face more like HVS but purely rock.
There are also purely rock routes such as the Pappillons arete on the Peigne and by the Refuge d'Envers. But as said, Chamonix is an odd choice if you want to avoid glaciers/snow
In reply to Oujmik:
There's 1 or 2 easier multi-pitch routes easily accessible from the Brevent cable car
No snow around them in summer and offer fabulous views across the whole of the Chamonix Aiguilles & Mont Blanc
http://www.camptocamp.org/summits/39717/fr/brevent
Easy low-level routes in Vallorcine
and 1 fairly easy route somewhere up the Vallon de Berard
There's 1 or 2 easier multi-pitch routes easily accessible from the Brevent cable car
No snow around them in summer and offer fabulous views across the whole of the Chamonix Aiguilles & Mont Blanc
http://www.camptocamp.org/summits/39717/fr/brevent
Easy low-level routes in Vallorcine
and 1 fairly easy route somewhere up the Vallon de Berard
In reply to planetmarshall:
Haha, well I'm pleased to say I've got out of the car in Glencoe every time I've been there. Chamonix was a bit of an impulse thing, there are probably 'better' places we could have gone for our level but the draw of the high mountains was too much.
It's not that we're not interested in glaciers/snow, in fact we're desperate to see the glaciers, snow rock etc up close hence the trip. I'm also thinking of hiring a guide (recommendations welcome) in order to learn some of the relevant winter skills and maybe do a route, I'm just being realistic that when we're not with the guide we're unlikely to feel ready to wonder off up any glaciers as a team of two, so we'll need stuff more within our comfort zone.
> Anyway, you've picked an odd choice of venue if you have no interest in learning Glacier travel. Going to Chamonix and only climbing in the Aiguilles Rouges would be like driving to Glencoe and never getting out of the car.
Haha, well I'm pleased to say I've got out of the car in Glencoe every time I've been there. Chamonix was a bit of an impulse thing, there are probably 'better' places we could have gone for our level but the draw of the high mountains was too much.
It's not that we're not interested in glaciers/snow, in fact we're desperate to see the glaciers, snow rock etc up close hence the trip. I'm also thinking of hiring a guide (recommendations welcome) in order to learn some of the relevant winter skills and maybe do a route, I'm just being realistic that when we're not with the guide we're unlikely to feel ready to wonder off up any glaciers as a team of two, so we'll need stuff more within our comfort zone.
In reply to Oujmik:
Can't recommend this highly enough. You'll get plenty of personal recommendations from UKC, but you won't go far wrong by just selecting someone from the BMG site.
Andrew.
> I'm also thinking of hiring a guide (recommendations welcome) in order to learn some of the relevant winter skills and maybe do a route...
Can't recommend this highly enough. You'll get plenty of personal recommendations from UKC, but you won't go far wrong by just selecting someone from the BMG site.
Andrew.
In reply to Doug:
It's a long time since I did the routes on the M. I remember one awkward bit on the NNE ridge. AFAIK the descent route is easy scrambling and would be a good way to get to the top. I think my guidebook reckons the Couzy and Menagaux routes are D. However, I do remember finding them hard climbing in big boots. My main memory is walking up to the base of the M intending to whichever is the furthest route along the face, but being too lazy to walk the extra few hundred yards. We ended up doing the first one and while we were climbing there was a big stonefall down the other route.
It's a long time since I did the routes on the M. I remember one awkward bit on the NNE ridge. AFAIK the descent route is easy scrambling and would be a good way to get to the top. I think my guidebook reckons the Couzy and Menagaux routes are D. However, I do remember finding them hard climbing in big boots. My main memory is walking up to the base of the M intending to whichever is the furthest route along the face, but being too lazy to walk the extra few hundred yards. We ended up doing the first one and while we were climbing there was a big stonefall down the other route.
In reply to wilkesley:
The Couzy was TD back in the 1970s French guides but HVS was my guess, but like you I did it in boots & maybe it'd feel more like VS in rock shoes. I know I've climbed the NNE ridge but can't remember much about it.
The Couzy was TD back in the 1970s French guides but HVS was my guess, but like you I did it in boots & maybe it'd feel more like VS in rock shoes. I know I've climbed the NNE ridge but can't remember much about it.
In reply to wilkesley:
Whenever I've been to l'M the approach from Plan de l'Aiguille involved a short crossing of the Glacier des Nantillons for which you'd either want crampons and/or axe, or - if like us you were in trainers - a reasonable degree of confidence. I'd give the NNE Arete easyish VS and the Couzy easyish HVS.
Whenever I've been to l'M the approach from Plan de l'Aiguille involved a short crossing of the Glacier des Nantillons for which you'd either want crampons and/or axe, or - if like us you were in trainers - a reasonable degree of confidence. I'd give the NNE Arete easyish VS and the Couzy easyish HVS.
Post edited at 18:51
In reply to wilkesley:
My experience: Couzy - HVS; Menagaux - E2 (if totally freed).
So these routes aren't good suggestions for the OP in my opinion; better in the same neck of the woods might be the Petit Charmoz.
> I think my guidebook reckons the Couzy and Menagaux routes are D.
My experience: Couzy - HVS; Menagaux - E2 (if totally freed).
So these routes aren't good suggestions for the OP in my opinion; better in the same neck of the woods might be the Petit Charmoz.
Post edited at 19:39
1
In reply to Rob Parsons:
In my ancient 1978 guidebook Megangaux is given D+ and Couzy D. According to my scribblings I used 2pts of aid of the Menagaux. I agree that these aren't suitable for the OP's requirements. Having re-read the description of the NNE ridge the poiished chimney (which I remember as a thrutch and hardest part of the route) is IV+ and there are several pitches of IV and one of V-. So not suitable if you aren't happy leading VS.
I didn't have axe or crampons for any of the routes (early 1980's) and re-reading the description of the descent route I think this would probably be OK as an ascent for the OP.
In my ancient 1978 guidebook Megangaux is given D+ and Couzy D. According to my scribblings I used 2pts of aid of the Menagaux. I agree that these aren't suitable for the OP's requirements. Having re-read the description of the NNE ridge the poiished chimney (which I remember as a thrutch and hardest part of the route) is IV+ and there are several pitches of IV and one of V-. So not suitable if you aren't happy leading VS.
I didn't have axe or crampons for any of the routes (early 1980's) and re-reading the description of the descent route I think this would probably be OK as an ascent for the OP.
In reply to Oujmik:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=238263
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=117136
Both amazing ridge climbs but long days, well worth considering a bivi if deciding on the Ecandies ridge.
May be advantegous to hire a guide so as to maximise your time & effort whilst over there.
Good luck.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=238263
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=117136
Both amazing ridge climbs but long days, well worth considering a bivi if deciding on the Ecandies ridge.
May be advantegous to hire a guide so as to maximise your time & effort whilst over there.
Good luck.
In reply to walts4:
Having had a quick google I really like the look of the Perrons ridge - looks just our kind of thing. Do you know if it's covered by the guidebook linked earlier? The Aiguille de l'M looks good too but as you say it's beyond my ability to lead it right now, could be one for a guided day.
The Petit Charmoz also looks interesting, again maybe one for a guide as it's given a V and I'd guess that III or IV would be my limit to lead. Now I can see where Little Chamonix gets its name!
Having had a quick google I really like the look of the Perrons ridge - looks just our kind of thing. Do you know if it's covered by the guidebook linked earlier? The Aiguille de l'M looks good too but as you say it's beyond my ability to lead it right now, could be one for a guided day.
The Petit Charmoz also looks interesting, again maybe one for a guide as it's given a V and I'd guess that III or IV would be my limit to lead. Now I can see where Little Chamonix gets its name!
Post edited at 09:48
In reply to Oujmik:
Hi there, it's worth going on the web and picking up a copy of Michel Piola's "Aiguilles Rouges 1" which covers the high crags from the Brevent to Cheserys, up near Argentiere. Make sure you're buying the English version. Loads of multi pitch routes on good rock and at the time you're going mostly approached in trainers. Loads of routes have been fully equipped by the guides, but there are plenty of things to do on a trad rack or combination of the two. Everything's very accessible from the various cable car stations along the valley. I suppose one of the routes on The Index is a must do, but very crowded. You'll also find solitude on a lot of the routes in the book too.
Also worth picking up Burnier and Potard's "crag climbs in Chamonix" which in addition to 1-3 pitch sports climbs, has a few longer easy routes from the valley floor like "voie Caline" which is 350m, equipped and there's a snack bar at the top! Recommended is l'ile aux Razmokets, 350m, 12 pitches at F6a max, and a brilliant restaurant/bar on the walk out.
It's also worth taking in the bouldering at the Col de Montets, and particularly Les Bossons, which is like a mini Font. All in the book.
Hope you have a good time.
Hi there, it's worth going on the web and picking up a copy of Michel Piola's "Aiguilles Rouges 1" which covers the high crags from the Brevent to Cheserys, up near Argentiere. Make sure you're buying the English version. Loads of multi pitch routes on good rock and at the time you're going mostly approached in trainers. Loads of routes have been fully equipped by the guides, but there are plenty of things to do on a trad rack or combination of the two. Everything's very accessible from the various cable car stations along the valley. I suppose one of the routes on The Index is a must do, but very crowded. You'll also find solitude on a lot of the routes in the book too.
Also worth picking up Burnier and Potard's "crag climbs in Chamonix" which in addition to 1-3 pitch sports climbs, has a few longer easy routes from the valley floor like "voie Caline" which is 350m, equipped and there's a snack bar at the top! Recommended is l'ile aux Razmokets, 350m, 12 pitches at F6a max, and a brilliant restaurant/bar on the walk out.
It's also worth taking in the bouldering at the Col de Montets, and particularly Les Bossons, which is like a mini Font. All in the book.
Hope you have a good time.
A choice of Chamonix is absolutely great. Even if you will stay in all time and not touch rock at all it's very stunning place to spent time.
Hiring a guide could help if your plan is to climb once and never bother again. Because climbing with a guide will teach you only how to climb with a guide. Nothing else really. It will never make a mountaineer out of you. That you may consider is getting some classes or a personal instructor to teach you and your partner how to work throw glaciers.
Hiring a guide could help if your plan is to climb once and never bother again. Because climbing with a guide will teach you only how to climb with a guide. Nothing else really. It will never make a mountaineer out of you. That you may consider is getting some classes or a personal instructor to teach you and your partner how to work throw glaciers.
In reply to nutme:
I totally disagree. Hire a guide with the specific goal of becoming a self sufficient mountaineer and they will be more than happy to teach you efficient rope work, crevasse rescue and all the other skills you need ( though it might be a tall order to get through all this in a day ). Climbing with a guide doesn't have to mean getting dragged up routes on a leash.
> Hiring a guide could help if your plan is to climb once and never bother again. Because climbing with a guide will teach you only how to climb with a guide. Nothing else really. It will never make a mountaineer out of you.
I totally disagree. Hire a guide with the specific goal of becoming a self sufficient mountaineer and they will be more than happy to teach you efficient rope work, crevasse rescue and all the other skills you need ( though it might be a tall order to get through all this in a day ). Climbing with a guide doesn't have to mean getting dragged up routes on a leash.
1
In reply to Rob Parsons:
> My experience: Couzy - HVS; Menagaux - E2 (if totally freed).
Totally agree - felt E2 (Aiguille de l'M : Voie Ménégaux ).In reply to Oujmik:
As others have said a guide or course with guides may be your best option. Your profile suggests you climb around V.Diff / French 4. The sport and trad. climbing in the Aiguilles Rouges is great but there are not many climbs around those grades.
Since Chamonix is your base I suggest some valley single and multipitch cragging at Les Gaillands and Vallorcines to get you started / used to rock and find the grade you are comfortable with etc. The Piola guidebook mentioned above will then be useful to identify further routes in the Aiguilles Rouges. La Somone, possibly Mic est Maousse by the Brevent are F4c compulsory, harder sections can be avoided. Around Planpraz Most of the traverse of the Vioz is 4s maximum, Hotel California can be completed around 4b. There are two routes on the Petite Floria and the SW Ridge of the Grande Floria are all within your grades. The Traverse of the Crochues is mostly scrambling, walking and a few rock climbing sections around Diff - but it has more of an alpine feel being exposed in places and requiring moving together whilst roped which may be better to leave for another time.
The book 'Easy Ascents in the Mont Blanc Range' has several routes you could do. If happy with descending ladders ( you can rope up for this ) you could hire axes, and crampons and enjoy exploring the Mer De Glace Glacier. Being a dry glacier ( no snow ) it is a great place to learn and develop crampon / axe skills without having to worry about falling into hidden crevasses.
There are many awesome walks in the area too such as the Balcon Nord, Balcon Sud and a walk up to the Albert Premier Hut.
Have fun,
As others have said a guide or course with guides may be your best option. Your profile suggests you climb around V.Diff / French 4. The sport and trad. climbing in the Aiguilles Rouges is great but there are not many climbs around those grades.
Since Chamonix is your base I suggest some valley single and multipitch cragging at Les Gaillands and Vallorcines to get you started / used to rock and find the grade you are comfortable with etc. The Piola guidebook mentioned above will then be useful to identify further routes in the Aiguilles Rouges. La Somone, possibly Mic est Maousse by the Brevent are F4c compulsory, harder sections can be avoided. Around Planpraz Most of the traverse of the Vioz is 4s maximum, Hotel California can be completed around 4b. There are two routes on the Petite Floria and the SW Ridge of the Grande Floria are all within your grades. The Traverse of the Crochues is mostly scrambling, walking and a few rock climbing sections around Diff - but it has more of an alpine feel being exposed in places and requiring moving together whilst roped which may be better to leave for another time.
The book 'Easy Ascents in the Mont Blanc Range' has several routes you could do. If happy with descending ladders ( you can rope up for this ) you could hire axes, and crampons and enjoy exploring the Mer De Glace Glacier. Being a dry glacier ( no snow ) it is a great place to learn and develop crampon / axe skills without having to worry about falling into hidden crevasses.
There are many awesome walks in the area too such as the Balcon Nord, Balcon Sud and a walk up to the Albert Premier Hut.
Have fun,
In reply to Mark / Alps:
You can hire bots crampons from TechExtreme near to the Midi station. I did this a couple of years ago with our children and we had a great day practising basic axe and crampon skills and a crevasse rescue on the Mer De Glace. The Envers slabs are above the ladders, but don't know if there are any low grade routes on them.
The ladders down to the glacier are quite exposed. We used slings to protect the children, some of the sections are >50 metres and a fall would be fatal. While we were there I saw a party of about six 12-13yr olds all roped together with a teacher/guide bringing up the rear. They all moved together down the ladders, without the teacher at the back making any attempt to fasten himself to the ladders. probably the most dangerous bit of climbing I have seen in a long while.
You can hire bots crampons from TechExtreme near to the Midi station. I did this a couple of years ago with our children and we had a great day practising basic axe and crampon skills and a crevasse rescue on the Mer De Glace. The Envers slabs are above the ladders, but don't know if there are any low grade routes on them.
The ladders down to the glacier are quite exposed. We used slings to protect the children, some of the sections are >50 metres and a fall would be fatal. While we were there I saw a party of about six 12-13yr olds all roped together with a teacher/guide bringing up the rear. They all moved together down the ladders, without the teacher at the back making any attempt to fasten himself to the ladders. probably the most dangerous bit of climbing I have seen in a long while.
In reply to planetmarshall:
Why not hire instructor for that? I have no doubt that average guide will be able to teach other people as well as any average mountaineer. But if you are spending money 'with the specific goal of becoming a self sufficient mountaineer' it would make more logic to spent it on private instructor or classes.
> I totally disagree. Hire a guide with the specific goal of becoming a self sufficient mountaineer and they will be more than happy to teach you efficient rope work, crevasse rescue and all the other skills you need ( though it might be a tall order to get through all this in a day ). Climbing with a guide doesn't have to mean getting dragged up routes on a leash.
Why not hire instructor for that? I have no doubt that average guide will be able to teach other people as well as any average mountaineer. But if you are spending money 'with the specific goal of becoming a self sufficient mountaineer' it would make more logic to spent it on private instructor or classes.
In reply to nutme:
That's what a guide is?
> (In reply to planetmarshall)
>
> [...]
>
> Why not hire instructor for that?
>
> [...]
>
> Why not hire instructor for that?
That's what a guide is?
In reply to Oujmik:
Hello Oujmik,
The girlfriend and I are also going to Chamonix for the first time in July (11th to 25th) so thanks for your post it's been really useful.
I haven't had chance look into what we are going to do yet. The girlfriend is a climber who loves walking(I know weird) and I'm looking to get some running done too... Can't wait.
Hello Oujmik,
The girlfriend and I are also going to Chamonix for the first time in July (11th to 25th) so thanks for your post it's been really useful.
I haven't had chance look into what we are going to do yet. The girlfriend is a climber who loves walking(I know weird) and I'm looking to get some running done too... Can't wait.
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