UKC

Can anyone explain how to back up the pulley whilst hauling on a big wall?

If doing a 3/1 haul system (with micro traxion), do you just put a second toothed pulley on??

Thanks!

In reply to ashtond6:

You attach a quickdraw from your anchor point to the haul rope, so that if the pulley blows, the quickdraw will catch the rope.

See from 4:00 in the second video down

http://www.supertopo.com/a/How-to-Big-Wall-Climb-Hauling-Managing-the-Belay...

In reply to ashtond6:

Backup in case of what?

In reply to David Coley:

In case of the pulley breaking. Worst case result: the bags freefall the length of the haul line taking you down with them, and the belay then rips when everything hits the end of the rope.

In reply to ashtond6:

Also, just out of interest, are you intending to try out the 3/1 system? The stuff I've seen so far in videos / read doesn't seem to recommend the 3/1, and just recommends you put the rope through a micro traxion and start squatting.

I wonder if it's because with a 3/1 you'd end up pulling the bag up on the up-stroke, i.e. with your quads rather than using your weight to pull up the bag as you sit into your harness and weight the rope?

With a 3/1, would it be possible to pull up the bag hand over hand, rather than doing squats?

In reply to RyanOsborne:

Yeah, but last time I could barely move the bags using full body weight & legs whilst hauling. So although more work, it will at least let me move them! Plan is 3/1 on day 1 (simple &quick to set up) and then hopefully 1/1 for the other days

Thanks for the video, still don't really understand how the quickdraw stops the bags hitting the end of the line if the pulley breaks. Is it because of the jumar/grigri on the harness?

In reply to ashtond6:

Did you try space hauling?

You are attached to the line on the other side of the pulley from the bags by your jumar so are preventing the bags falling. So the quick draw is there to back up the pulley if it breaks.

In reply to ashtond6:

I'd say a big part of your problem is the micro traxion. The smaller pulley will make hauling significantly harder! Buy the biggest you can find e.g. The Pro Traxion. given the costs involved with big walling and the weight already in scope you will appreciate the upgrade. As an aside, i thought the micro traxion was more for rescue purposes that big walling?

Consider what you are carrying as well. We fitted everything into one haul bag on the nose with gear for 4/5 days including 42 litres of water ( after horror stories of running out). No need for a ledge but that will depend on your route. We could haul this 1:1 from day 1, especially by tying into the belay on a long (5m) tail and then jumaring up and down the haul rope.

Final tip is to use a swivel to prevent tangles and have a tripping line for the second so they can assist the bag of it gets stuck during the hauling.

In reply to Sandstone Stickman:

last time we were using a huge pulley (kong block) & it was just a pain
then a team of 4 came up with a microtrax & it seemed to work really well
micro traxion is designed for hauling medium loads:
http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Hauling-Device-Reviews/Petzl-Micro-Traxion

was thinking of testing a 1/1 and jumaring the haul rope!

thanks for the help

In reply to ashtond6:

Hi,

I looked up the spec of the micro v the pro. Its certainly a better contender than I first gave it credit for. 91% efficient compared to 95%. Science dictates that the larger pulley will be easier but it looks like the bearings in the micro are good quality enough to be usable. I'd still say go for the larger one. .. Good luck in your tests.

In reply to ashtond6:





correct

In reply to Sandstone Stickman:

The micro is very good - and much better than the mini. I've also used a pro and I'me not sure it is worth it.

In reply to RyanOsborne:


No, you redirect with another pulley at the anchor, and just sit down.

In reply to ashtond6:


Day 1, space haul.
Day 2, 3 to 1
Day 3-4, 1 to 1 using a microtrax and grigri

In reply to ashtond6:

Id forget 3 to 1!!!! when I solo'd Washington coloumn I used chongos 2 to 1. its a separate z cord, 2 pullys, and a jumar all goes in a little bag. check it out on supertopo, theres loads of threads on it. also that was only on day 1 only. there on I space hauled.

In reply to ashtond6:

The Micro Trax certainly does the business at 91% efficiency - the folks over on Supertopo and on their forums rate them. I have measured them on light loads and got figures up to 97% on 1:1 and using a pair in a 2:1 system have got figures of 189% load/force required to lift it. 3:1 sounds like an epic faff and will be uber slow. I am hauling 100Kg+ up vertical walls using 2:1 with a pair of Micros and it is easy if slow. At 75Kg I can't shift that any other way. And yes qd across the haul rope is there to back up the pulley in case of catastrophic failure, however in your setup I guess you would be using an ascender as a rope grab device down below the 'toothed pulley', so you already have a backup. In a 1:1 setup its all on the one small pulley (scary when you start ) so if that disintegrates then you will be in deep do-do! The qd means whatever you are using to grip the rope gets dragged up to it and stops. Not fun but better than going over the edge attached to the haul bags with 50m of rope behind you before you stop.....a bad thing!

In reply to philhilo:

What is the latest thinking on static or dynamic ropes for hauling?

I have had no trouble with 4 day bags for 2 and 1:1 with an old pulley and two jumars on a 10/11mm dynamic climbing rope. ( even a 3 day bag through a krab after throwing the useless plastic pulley away )

We figured if the bag dropped, we had more chance on a factor 1 fall onto a climbing rope rather than a static.
Also a spare climbing rope if the main lead line got damaged. (Classic Yosemite single rope technique in 1970's )

In reply to ashtond6:

If you're using a 2:1 and your main pulley goes, there's still the zcord to take the load.