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That was a click bait - I know it is not!
I am studying at the uni right now, working part-time in several places and I see lots of foreigners everywhere. Students, lecturers, colleagues, shop assistants, waiters, etc. Sometimes you can see a wanderer in mountains with denim trousers and a large rucksack, probably a person visiting UK for short time. West Highland Way, when I've done it, was quite full of tourists, but that's an exception. However, there are very few foreigners at the climbing wall or at the crags or mountains.
Why is that? Some of my guesses.
Firstly, climbing is not popular in some countries. I am from Lithuania and I can easily answer to question what kind of climbing do we have back there. The highest hill is about 1000 feet high and we don't have crags, just few boulders. Our highest boulder/stone is this one: http://i.imgur.com/sEXhqV7.jpg . Bouldering becomes more popular over there, but I haven't been in Lithuania for some time.
Secondly, some countries provide better kind of climbing (alpine, big wall, aid - you choose!). Hence, some people with climbing experience might not be willing to stay in the UK for long time as the climbing might be limited?
Are there any foreigners here on the UKC? Why do you think climbing is not so popular among foreigners?
I am ill, curious and trying to distract myself from studying. Also, I know it's an useless thread and I might have done a mistake or two (or more)!
I am studying at the uni right now, working part-time in several places and I see lots of foreigners everywhere. Students, lecturers, colleagues, shop assistants, waiters, etc. Sometimes you can see a wanderer in mountains with denim trousers and a large rucksack, probably a person visiting UK for short time. West Highland Way, when I've done it, was quite full of tourists, but that's an exception. However, there are very few foreigners at the climbing wall or at the crags or mountains.
Why is that? Some of my guesses.
Firstly, climbing is not popular in some countries. I am from Lithuania and I can easily answer to question what kind of climbing do we have back there. The highest hill is about 1000 feet high and we don't have crags, just few boulders. Our highest boulder/stone is this one: http://i.imgur.com/sEXhqV7.jpg . Bouldering becomes more popular over there, but I haven't been in Lithuania for some time.
Secondly, some countries provide better kind of climbing (alpine, big wall, aid - you choose!). Hence, some people with climbing experience might not be willing to stay in the UK for long time as the climbing might be limited?
Are there any foreigners here on the UKC? Why do you think climbing is not so popular among foreigners?
I am ill, curious and trying to distract myself from studying. Also, I know it's an useless thread and I might have done a mistake or two (or more)!
In reply to PPP:
I think your national crag may have been chipped?
UK trad climbing is great but I hesitate to recommend it to most people on a short trip, as the weather is often bad, and the local knowledge of how to make the best out of conditions is hard won.
I think your national crag may have been chipped?
UK trad climbing is great but I hesitate to recommend it to most people on a short trip, as the weather is often bad, and the local knowledge of how to make the best out of conditions is hard won.
4
In reply to PPP:
I don't know but just to flip it back, you have nailed why I have never visited Lithuania, even though I have substantial blood/heritage!
I don't know but just to flip it back, you have nailed why I have never visited Lithuania, even though I have substantial blood/heritage!
In reply to PPP:
Mile End's absolutely full of foreigners. I'm not sure I'd accept your premise.
Still, best wishes for Independence Day on Monday!
jcm
Mile End's absolutely full of foreigners. I'm not sure I'd accept your premise.
Still, best wishes for Independence Day on Monday!
jcm
In reply to PPP:
They do for winter climing, if you go to Ben Nevis in a week or so you'll hear plenty foreign accents.
They do for winter climing, if you go to Ben Nevis in a week or so you'll hear plenty foreign accents.
In reply to PPP:
As it happens, it looks as if I'm going to be visiting Vilnius regularly and I was hoping that it might be interesting from a climbing point of view. From what you say, maybe not.
Where would it fit in my list of occasional work venues in terms of potential?
San Diego > Eugene > Oslo > Zurich > Glasgow > Darmstadt > Leiden
As it happens, it looks as if I'm going to be visiting Vilnius regularly and I was hoping that it might be interesting from a climbing point of view. From what you say, maybe not.
Where would it fit in my list of occasional work venues in terms of potential?
San Diego > Eugene > Oslo > Zurich > Glasgow > Darmstadt > Leiden
In reply to PPP:
I haven't noticed many foreigners at local crags (Although I try to end up at quiet crags with not many people at all!!), but our wall certainly has a fair number of foreigners. Mostly eastern Europeans and a few Spaniards and Germans
I haven't noticed many foreigners at local crags (Although I try to end up at quiet crags with not many people at all!!), but our wall certainly has a fair number of foreigners. Mostly eastern Europeans and a few Spaniards and Germans
In reply to PPP:
It's because most of the climbing in the UK is what they call 'free climbing' in the States. Americans call it that because they found it strange and exotic until two people tried it on the Yosemite Dawn Wall the other week. Now that's happened, the Yanks will probably claim they invented it, along with cracking the code for the Enigma machine in WW2 etc. etc.
My understanding is that mainland Europe is full of bolted routes and that sport climbing is the only thing that most continental climbers are geared up for. Of course, there is plenty of trad climbing in continental Europe but it's probably only 'mad dogs and Englishmen' who go there to do it.
As for the rest of the world and also, why you haven't spotted foreign accents at climbing walls, you'll have to research those parts of the conundrum for yourself.
It's because most of the climbing in the UK is what they call 'free climbing' in the States. Americans call it that because they found it strange and exotic until two people tried it on the Yosemite Dawn Wall the other week. Now that's happened, the Yanks will probably claim they invented it, along with cracking the code for the Enigma machine in WW2 etc. etc.
My understanding is that mainland Europe is full of bolted routes and that sport climbing is the only thing that most continental climbers are geared up for. Of course, there is plenty of trad climbing in continental Europe but it's probably only 'mad dogs and Englishmen' who go there to do it.
As for the rest of the world and also, why you haven't spotted foreign accents at climbing walls, you'll have to research those parts of the conundrum for yourself.
1
In reply to PPP:
Tons of East Europeans and French amongst about a million different "others" at Westway.
Tons of East Europeans and French amongst about a million different "others" at Westway.
1
In reply to PPP:
I bet the weather has a lot to do with it, along with the generally abysmal standards at British B&Bs and hotels.
I bet the weather has a lot to do with it, along with the generally abysmal standards at British B&Bs and hotels.
In reply to Dan Arkle:
This ^^^^^
> UK trad climbing is great but I hesitate to recommend it to most people on a short trip, as the weather is often bad, and the local knowledge of how to make the best out of conditions is hard won.
This ^^^^^
1
In reply to Andy Morley:
Any wegies around to confirm that?
> My understanding is that mainland Europe is full of bolted routes and that sport climbing is the only thing that most continental climbers are geared up for.
Any wegies around to confirm that?
In reply to PPP:
Last summer I noticed plenty of foreigners knocking around the Peak, including big parties from Norway and Marseilles - hardly rock-starved locations - who were here for a week's holiday, enjoying the grit. The last climbing trip I went on there were two Brits and four foreigners...
Last summer I noticed plenty of foreigners knocking around the Peak, including big parties from Norway and Marseilles - hardly rock-starved locations - who were here for a week's holiday, enjoying the grit. The last climbing trip I went on there were two Brits and four foreigners...
In reply to PPP:
It probably depends on the wall. There's probably about 50/50 split of brits and non-brits on a typical evening at our wall (Cambridge-KK). Our club membership (CCCC) is about 25-30% foreigners. And no we are not just sport climbers
It probably depends on the wall. There's probably about 50/50 split of brits and non-brits on a typical evening at our wall (Cambridge-KK). Our club membership (CCCC) is about 25-30% foreigners. And no we are not just sport climbers
In reply to PPP:
I think there is a disproportionately high number of 'foriegners' climbing in the Uk compared to 'foriegners' in the Uk (i suppose if you exclude the hoards of tourists in london...).
There is always going to be more brits than non brits at any given climbing location as this is, well... Britain! But it is rare to go somewhere for a day and not hear a foriegn accent. I think if you were to compare that with other extream sports/adventure activities such as kayaking and surfing then climbing does very well on the international front.
I think there is a disproportionately high number of 'foriegners' climbing in the Uk compared to 'foriegners' in the Uk (i suppose if you exclude the hoards of tourists in london...).
There is always going to be more brits than non brits at any given climbing location as this is, well... Britain! But it is rare to go somewhere for a day and not hear a foriegn accent. I think if you were to compare that with other extream sports/adventure activities such as kayaking and surfing then climbing does very well on the international front.
In reply to Andy Morley:
My (very limited) experience of the French and climbing is probably that those who would be geared up for trad climbing are too busy doing mountaineering/Alpine stuff on their 'proper' mountains which we in the UK lack... :P
> My understanding is that mainland Europe is full of bolted routes and that sport climbing is the only thing that most continental climbers are geared up for. Of course, there is plenty of trad climbing in continental Europe but it's probably only 'mad dogs and Englishmen' who go there to do it.
My (very limited) experience of the French and climbing is probably that those who would be geared up for trad climbing are too busy doing mountaineering/Alpine stuff on their 'proper' mountains which we in the UK lack... :P
In reply to Dave Garnett:
If you head out towards Noordwyk an Zee theres an actual HILL.*
*NB: May be considered a 'mound' by british standards, but by dutch standards its potentially life threatening.
> Leiden
If you head out towards Noordwyk an Zee theres an actual HILL.*
*NB: May be considered a 'mound' by british standards, but by dutch standards its potentially life threatening.
In reply to PPP: I've just checked using the excellent UKC crag searching tool. There are no crags withing 10 miles of Rochester or Clacton on Sea, so foreigners are ok for now.
In reply to PPP:
I doubt the UK appeals to many other nationals as a climbing destination. As has been said, the weather's pretty dreadful, but more than that most climbers in easy travelling distance (i.e. Europe) will be used to sport climbing and see UK trad as inaccessible and probably undesirable! Would you like to take break from immaculate, sunny, dry, bolted limestone and ab down some scary, damp, grassy zawn to climb out on choss with only the odd rotten peg or string of manky tat to mark the way?
While you don't see many foreigners at Gogarth, you do see plenty at Stanage!
I doubt the UK appeals to many other nationals as a climbing destination. As has been said, the weather's pretty dreadful, but more than that most climbers in easy travelling distance (i.e. Europe) will be used to sport climbing and see UK trad as inaccessible and probably undesirable! Would you like to take break from immaculate, sunny, dry, bolted limestone and ab down some scary, damp, grassy zawn to climb out on choss with only the odd rotten peg or string of manky tat to mark the way?
While you don't see many foreigners at Gogarth, you do see plenty at Stanage!
2
In reply to Steve nevers:
There are no green dots in either Netherlands or Lithuania on the crag searching tool, nor in any conveniently adjacent areas, so I guess they are joint last!
> If you head out towards Noordwyk an Zee theres an actual HILL.*
> *NB: May be considered a 'mound' by british standards, but by dutch standards its potentially life threatening.
There are no green dots in either Netherlands or Lithuania on the crag searching tool, nor in any conveniently adjacent areas, so I guess they are joint last!
In reply to PPP:
Awesome walls in sheffield has loads of foreign climbers regularly(saw Alex megos is there not too long ago) and the peaks is the go to grit destination for foreign visitors, masters edge and the like
Awesome walls in sheffield has loads of foreign climbers regularly(saw Alex megos is there not too long ago) and the peaks is the go to grit destination for foreign visitors, masters edge and the like
Post edited at 18:47
In reply to Steve nevers:
You just made me realize that Hedeland, the most prominent ski resort in Denmark, is actually a mound, not a hill (dammit).
> If you head out towards Noordwyk an Zee theres an actual HILL.*
> *NB: May be considered a 'mound' by british standards, but by dutch standards its potentially life threatening.
You just made me realize that Hedeland, the most prominent ski resort in Denmark, is actually a mound, not a hill (dammit).
In reply to PPP:
and my experience is that there are loads of foreigners climbing here.
in the recent past i've climbed with and talked to about climbing people from
Poland, Spain, France, Ukraine, NZ and more
as well as Brits with "foreign heritage"
in fact on many trips to the wall i've been the only Brit in the group
and my experience is that there are loads of foreigners climbing here.
in the recent past i've climbed with and talked to about climbing people from
Poland, Spain, France, Ukraine, NZ and more
as well as Brits with "foreign heritage"
in fact on many trips to the wall i've been the only Brit in the group
Interesting, up here we get plenty of 'foreigners' coming over for the climbing, and most of them seem pretty happy to be in on the secret- problem is most people outside the UK don't really know what the climbing in the UK even is - I'd hazard a bet that most people have either heard of gritstone (and only at the hard scary end) or maybe some of the hard mountain routes...
I am a foreigner. I am living in UK for last 4 years and to be honest climbing here is okey if you are lucky with weather and have cash.
I met a lot of non-brits around those islands in those years. And I work as part time hiking guide. Usually more than a half of group are not ethnic British. However I haven't yet met a person who would come to UK for a hiking or climbing holiday. Only those who are studying or working here. It is permanent residents who came to live here go outdoors. Like you or me.
In past I lived in Russia, Denmark and Germany. From where UK was always considered to be expensive, wet, with small hills, plain food and long drives. That kept me and everybody I ever climbed with away from British islands. Now when I spent here 4 years I can say that it's so true. I still can't call Ben Nevis a mountain. It's just hill. Most of the time it's wet. Even if it's not raining that moment it's likely to be overcast with ridiculous humidity level. Sometimes you can get few nice truly dry weeks at summer, but even that is a gamble. And of course it's expensive! Normally climbing in Dorset will cost two or three times more than climbing in Spain if you are traveling from Europe mainland. And British cousin. Well I love it, but I think it's because I am Russian. Most of Europeans find it boring.
And of course weather. Average climbing weekend. Leaving Fri after work and coming back late Sunday. If going to climb in UK you have a good chance of not climbing at all. If I traveling to Majorca you will get at least one dry day. Usually both. And even if it rains, it will dry fast after that.
So normal thinking of average person on the continent is why to go to British islands then you can go to Spain (Italy, France, Bavaria, Slovenia...) for less money, better food, easier access to routes, well bolted (trad is not popular on continent), and much better weather. Scenery normally is more stunning as well.
Now thinking that I know at least 3 Lithuanian origin climbers. The's a lot of Lithuanians living in UK and some got in to climbing. They were saying that where's no outdoor climbing in Lithuania at all. With nearest routes in Poland. So normally where's no climbing culture in LT.
Post edited at 12:02
2
In reply to PPP:
I am one of them. I think it depends where you live, where I live in the climbing wall you hear a lot of polish, french, Spanish...
Trad climbing on mountain crags I meet a lot less foreigners though, it seems to be a typically British thing, but I did manage to turn quite a few of my French friends into tradheads
> That was a click bait - I know it is not!
> I am studying at the uni right now, working part-time in several places and I see lots of foreigners everywhere. Students, lecturers, colleagues, shop assistants, waiters, etc. Sometimes you can see a wanderer in mountains with denim trousers and a large rucksack, probably a person visiting UK for short time. West Highland Way, when I've done it, was quite full of tourists, but that's an exception. However, there are very few foreigners at the climbing wall or at the crags or mountains.
> Why is that? Some of my guesses.
> Firstly, climbing is not popular in some countries. I am from Lithuania and I can easily answer to question what kind of climbing do we have back there. The highest hill is about 1000 feet high and we don't have crags, just few boulders. Our highest boulder/stone is this one: http://i.imgur.com/sEXhqV7.jpg . Bouldering becomes more popular over there, but I haven't been in Lithuania for some time.
> Secondly, some countries provide better kind of climbing (alpine, big wall, aid - you choose!). Hence, some people with climbing experience might not be willing to stay in the UK for long time as the climbing might be limited?
> Are there any foreigners here on the UKC? Why do you think climbing is not so popular among foreigners?
I am one of them. I think it depends where you live, where I live in the climbing wall you hear a lot of polish, french, Spanish...
Trad climbing on mountain crags I meet a lot less foreigners though, it seems to be a typically British thing, but I did manage to turn quite a few of my French friends into tradheads
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Seconded.
> Still, best wishes for Independence Day on Monday!
> jcm
Seconded.
In reply to nutme:
Once you get used to the idea of climbing anything in any condition with no pro British climbing is actually rather fun and addictive, but yeah it's an acquired taste but I think you do get more an more people from the continent opening up to the idea of climbing in Scotland for example, especially winter.
Once you get used to the idea of climbing anything in any condition with no pro British climbing is actually rather fun and addictive, but yeah it's an acquired taste but I think you do get more an more people from the continent opening up to the idea of climbing in Scotland for example, especially winter.
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