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Does anyone have experience of or think it is possible to live on the minimum wage of £6.50/hour?
I was earning this just recently as a temporary agency worker at a warehouse distribution centre. I had a problem with an infected finger and so was unable to work for a few days- the warehouse decided they no longer needed my services.
Now this is not a desperately bad situation for me as I am currently living with my parents and have only been paying them a nominal rent. But if I had been trying to survive on that 6.50, and then to have it taken away so suddenly I can't imagine what life would be like.
In the future I would like to be independent and have a place of my own, but I'm really scared about what would happen if a similar situation were to occur.
Does anyone else manage on this sort of wage on a more permanent basis? What is life like?
I was earning this just recently as a temporary agency worker at a warehouse distribution centre. I had a problem with an infected finger and so was unable to work for a few days- the warehouse decided they no longer needed my services.
Now this is not a desperately bad situation for me as I am currently living with my parents and have only been paying them a nominal rent. But if I had been trying to survive on that 6.50, and then to have it taken away so suddenly I can't imagine what life would be like.
In the future I would like to be independent and have a place of my own, but I'm really scared about what would happen if a similar situation were to occur.
Does anyone else manage on this sort of wage on a more permanent basis? What is life like?
In reply to toasted:
I lived on minimum wage but rented a room in a house 'all bills inc' for £250 a month. I found that all I did was work, because that's how I could get the amount of money I wanted to buy nice food, go for drinks with friends, buy some things I wanted. But because I was working so much (170-200 hours a month) and very unsociable hours, standard shift was 12-930 in a cinema. I had no time to enjoy my life. And made it a mission to get a better paid/better hours job!
I lived on minimum wage but rented a room in a house 'all bills inc' for £250 a month. I found that all I did was work, because that's how I could get the amount of money I wanted to buy nice food, go for drinks with friends, buy some things I wanted. But because I was working so much (170-200 hours a month) and very unsociable hours, standard shift was 12-930 in a cinema. I had no time to enjoy my life. And made it a mission to get a better paid/better hours job!
In reply to toasted:
Its hard! I rent a room in a shared house and have 4 jobs, starting at 6am and finishing about 10.30pm. But its the only way I can manage to save enough to travel and climb abroad and have the life I want. I live very frugally, eat at work as much as I can, drive an old (but reliable!) car and count every penny.
Its hard! I rent a room in a shared house and have 4 jobs, starting at 6am and finishing about 10.30pm. But its the only way I can manage to save enough to travel and climb abroad and have the life I want. I live very frugally, eat at work as much as I can, drive an old (but reliable!) car and count every penny.
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In reply to redsonja:
Cars are hugely, hugely expensive to run. As renting gives you much more flexibility on where you live, wouldn't it be cheaper to do away with it?
Neil
Cars are hugely, hugely expensive to run. As renting gives you much more flexibility on where you live, wouldn't it be cheaper to do away with it?
Neil
In reply to redsonja:
Jeez, it sounds really tough. I worry about the future. What about savings? What about trying to buy somewhere to live?
I couldn't do any of these things right now. I guess I don't even have the passion that you have for doing something like climbing to make those sacrifices.
Jeez, it sounds really tough. I worry about the future. What about savings? What about trying to buy somewhere to live?
I couldn't do any of these things right now. I guess I don't even have the passion that you have for doing something like climbing to make those sacrifices.
In reply to toasted:
When I started freelancing it worked out as less than minimum wage for the first year or so (although the daily rate was good, it takes a while to build up contacts), and I had to drive to get to work. It is doable, but you do have to loose all non essentials. No TV, no luxury food etc. I don't drink anyway, so that helped. Find out when your local supermarket stocks the reduced section. I rented a box room in a shared house that had a 3/4 length bed, and 3/4 sized door etc!! Good job I'm a 3/4 sized person!! I got really good at car mechanics and knew my local scrappy well.
It can be done, but you won't have any savings! (well, maybe some people manage savings on it, I didn't)
When I started freelancing it worked out as less than minimum wage for the first year or so (although the daily rate was good, it takes a while to build up contacts), and I had to drive to get to work. It is doable, but you do have to loose all non essentials. No TV, no luxury food etc. I don't drink anyway, so that helped. Find out when your local supermarket stocks the reduced section. I rented a box room in a shared house that had a 3/4 length bed, and 3/4 sized door etc!! Good job I'm a 3/4 sized person!! I got really good at car mechanics and knew my local scrappy well.
It can be done, but you won't have any savings! (well, maybe some people manage savings on it, I didn't)
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In reply to toasted:
I've worked out that after tax I'll have eleven thousand one hundred and something, out of which around two thousand a year will go towards water and council rates and other bills, leaving me nine thousand and a bit to live on, though if I start switching my energy suppliers I could possibly/probably have ten thousand a year.
I'm in the extraordinarily lucky position of my parents having bought a small house in my name, meaning that I won't have to pay rent, but instead I'll have to pay for the upkeep of the house in the longer term.
Things like Chinese/oriental food shops which sell giant bags of rice are worth looking into, where it's much cheaper than buying the smaller bags at a super market, and other places which sell food in bulk.
Luckily, I live in Sheffield which is less expensive to live than some places, with entry fee for a night out to see a live band being just a few pounds in some places, and I don't drink either and can walk or cycle out to the Peak, or catch the train, and I have quite a decent eye for a bargain/bargain clothes in second hand shops. B+M is ment to be good as a cheap place to buy food and random bits & pieces.
Currently I'm doing different kinds of volunteering and home studying before taking my first steps into paid work this summer, after a long time out of work with mental health issues. If my day time job doesn't pay more than minimum wage, for a half okay quality of life I'll have to work evenings in a supermarket or something similar.
I've worked out that after tax I'll have eleven thousand one hundred and something, out of which around two thousand a year will go towards water and council rates and other bills, leaving me nine thousand and a bit to live on, though if I start switching my energy suppliers I could possibly/probably have ten thousand a year.
I'm in the extraordinarily lucky position of my parents having bought a small house in my name, meaning that I won't have to pay rent, but instead I'll have to pay for the upkeep of the house in the longer term.
Things like Chinese/oriental food shops which sell giant bags of rice are worth looking into, where it's much cheaper than buying the smaller bags at a super market, and other places which sell food in bulk.
Luckily, I live in Sheffield which is less expensive to live than some places, with entry fee for a night out to see a live band being just a few pounds in some places, and I don't drink either and can walk or cycle out to the Peak, or catch the train, and I have quite a decent eye for a bargain/bargain clothes in second hand shops. B+M is ment to be good as a cheap place to buy food and random bits & pieces.
Currently I'm doing different kinds of volunteering and home studying before taking my first steps into paid work this summer, after a long time out of work with mental health issues. If my day time job doesn't pay more than minimum wage, for a half okay quality of life I'll have to work evenings in a supermarket or something similar.
Post edited at 15:33
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In reply to toasted:
Networking is helpful, too, somebody my family knows who is a joiner has promised me a supply of free wood for my stove, which will help with heating my home during the colder weather.
There's probably facebook groups for your local area which facilitate the same kind of thing.
Networking is helpful, too, somebody my family knows who is a joiner has promised me a supply of free wood for my stove, which will help with heating my home during the colder weather.
There's probably facebook groups for your local area which facilitate the same kind of thing.
Post edited at 15:33
In reply to toasted:
Why not take advantage of your relatively safe circumstances to improve your education/qualifications (or CV or whatever needs improvement) to get you into better paid, more secure work? I'm not having a go, just pointing out what you seem to already realise, these things get harder not easier once you're stuck in the rut with bills to pay.
jk
> Jeez, it sounds really tough. I worry about the future. What about savings? What about trying to buy somewhere to live?
Why not take advantage of your relatively safe circumstances to improve your education/qualifications (or CV or whatever needs improvement) to get you into better paid, more secure work? I'm not having a go, just pointing out what you seem to already realise, these things get harder not easier once you're stuck in the rut with bills to pay.
jk
In reply to Neil Williams:
Depends where you live and work. Great if you live in a big city with good busses etc. Not so good if you live anywhere else.
When I broke my wrist a while back my 15 min car /20 min bike commute became a 1 hr commute costing £4.50.
Also the busses around here stop stupidly early some evenings.
Depends where you live and work. Great if you live in a big city with good busses etc. Not so good if you live anywhere else.
When I broke my wrist a while back my 15 min car /20 min bike commute became a 1 hr commute costing £4.50.
Also the busses around here stop stupidly early some evenings.
In reply to Timmd:
Be aware of the Tax implications of this.
> I'm in the extraordinarily lucky position of my parents having bought a small house in my name, meaning that I won't have to pay rent, but instead I'll have to pay for the upkeep of the house in the longer term.
Be aware of the Tax implications of this.
In reply to toasted:
The future.....That was my first thought! Being young and being really hard up is almost a right of passage. I remember eating beans and soup cold out of the can so as to save having to put money in the meter while a student. In the current climate having no or little savings or prospects of amassing savings would be terrifying to be honest.
> Jeez, it sounds really tough. I worry about the future. What about savings? What about trying to buy somewhere to live?
The future.....That was my first thought! Being young and being really hard up is almost a right of passage. I remember eating beans and soup cold out of the can so as to save having to put money in the meter while a student. In the current climate having no or little savings or prospects of amassing savings would be terrifying to be honest.
In reply to toasted:
I do manage to save quite a bit, but then spend it on an expedition somewhere! Its what I live for. I will never be able to afford to buy my own house, but that doesnt really worry me. Not at the moment anyway
I do manage to save quite a bit, but then spend it on an expedition somewhere! Its what I live for. I will never be able to afford to buy my own house, but that doesnt really worry me. Not at the moment anyway
In reply to Neil Williams:
I couldnt manage without my car. I live in a rural area and couldnt get to and from the mountains without one. Also, I dont really want to move anywhere else as Im close to the fells here. A guy who lives in the same house as me did actually get rid of his car last year and finds it quite tough without one
I couldnt manage without my car. I live in a rural area and couldnt get to and from the mountains without one. Also, I dont really want to move anywhere else as Im close to the fells here. A guy who lives in the same house as me did actually get rid of his car last year and finds it quite tough without one
In reply to Indy:
I guess I should say, I am living in the future -sort of - I'm 42 now. And back living with parents after having lived abroad and a break up with my girlfriend.
It's just a frightening position to be in, I can't and don't want to rely on my parents, but at the moment I don't have much choice.
As for improving my prospects, I've been down the open university route and also gained a masters degree. Unfortunately I also suffer with chronic low self esteem. Trying to work on that but it has been an ever present in my life. That's why I'm scared - if I can't deal with it my life will be so difficult.
I guess I should say, I am living in the future -sort of - I'm 42 now. And back living with parents after having lived abroad and a break up with my girlfriend.
It's just a frightening position to be in, I can't and don't want to rely on my parents, but at the moment I don't have much choice.
As for improving my prospects, I've been down the open university route and also gained a masters degree. Unfortunately I also suffer with chronic low self esteem. Trying to work on that but it has been an ever present in my life. That's why I'm scared - if I can't deal with it my life will be so difficult.
In reply to Timmd:
I'm assuming that when your parents bought it in your name they wanted to shield themselves from Capital Gains Tax. Unfortunately the Tax man would expect to see you paying a market rent on the property for it to be removed from their estate for Tax purposes.
I'm assuming that when your parents bought it in your name they wanted to shield themselves from Capital Gains Tax. Unfortunately the Tax man would expect to see you paying a market rent on the property for it to be removed from their estate for Tax purposes.
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In reply to Neil Williams:
It isn't always possible for everyone to do without a car, rent nearer to a place of work may also be significantly more expensive. I'm always surprised how expensive public transport can be as well, it would certainly be cheaper for me to drive to Manchester everyday (10 miles), inclusive of parking and all costs associated with owning a cheap car, than getting the bus, tram or train.
> Cars are hugely, hugely expensive to run. As renting gives you much more flexibility on where you live, wouldn't it be cheaper to do away with it?
> Neil
It isn't always possible for everyone to do without a car, rent nearer to a place of work may also be significantly more expensive. I'm always surprised how expensive public transport can be as well, it would certainly be cheaper for me to drive to Manchester everyday (10 miles), inclusive of parking and all costs associated with owning a cheap car, than getting the bus, tram or train.
In reply to toasted:
it depends I did this for many years and now work less for more but get less... its all possible depends what kinda life you want and how you like to waste cash.
I also had huge outgoings. but then £20 a week left over was plenty because i got tips.
it depends I did this for many years and now work less for more but get less... its all possible depends what kinda life you want and how you like to waste cash.
I also had huge outgoings. but then £20 a week left over was plenty because i got tips.
In reply to Indy:
Only an issue if they bought it at a significant discount or a long time ago, otherwise the market value at the time of gifting the asset would be the same as when they bought it (therefore no gain for CGT purposes).
If it was in Timmd's name, then it was effectively a gift of cash, which has no CGT implications.
Bit of a thread hijack, sorry.
Only an issue if they bought it at a significant discount or a long time ago, otherwise the market value at the time of gifting the asset would be the same as when they bought it (therefore no gain for CGT purposes).
If it was in Timmd's name, then it was effectively a gift of cash, which has no CGT implications.
Bit of a thread hijack, sorry.
In reply to Timmd:
If you are working minimum wage then working tax credit may help out. It won't be a lot extra if you are working 30 hours, but if you are working part time and have had health problems in the past you may qualify for the disability rate which would give you a decent top up if you are working 16 hours.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-credits-entitlement-tables-w...
If you are working minimum wage then working tax credit may help out. It won't be a lot extra if you are working 30 hours, but if you are working part time and have had health problems in the past you may qualify for the disability rate which would give you a decent top up if you are working 16 hours.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-credits-entitlement-tables-w...
In reply to Indy:
Unlike you I didn't assume the property was bought in Tim's name to dodge Capital Gains Tax, I assumed it was bought in his name as a gift to help him in life. Tim owns the property, he lives in it, nobody is liable for any Capital Gains Tax, this isn't a dodge, you don't pay Capital Gains on your (only) home. Inheritance Tax maybe an issue at some point.
> I'm assuming that when your parents bought it in your name they wanted to shield themselves from Capital Gains Tax. Unfortunately the Tax man would expect to see you paying a market rent on the property for it to be removed from their estate for Tax purposes.
Unlike you I didn't assume the property was bought in Tim's name to dodge Capital Gains Tax, I assumed it was bought in his name as a gift to help him in life. Tim owns the property, he lives in it, nobody is liable for any Capital Gains Tax, this isn't a dodge, you don't pay Capital Gains on your (only) home. Inheritance Tax maybe an issue at some point.
In reply to Gone:
It's my goal to be without any state support as far as possible (one can start to fee vulnerable to the quirks of politicians), but that's very helpful for if there's an in between stage.
Thanks.
It's my goal to be without any state support as far as possible (one can start to fee vulnerable to the quirks of politicians), but that's very helpful for if there's an in between stage.
Thanks.
Post edited at 18:41
In reply to redsonja:
I dare say what you lose in one area you gain in another Sonja, while I'm at peace with having 'lost' ten years to get to a stage where working for a living is realistic (though it's not been without merit in the sense of life lessons), I've not been going on trips or to other countries, and generally 'living freely' in that time. I might have a house to call my own, but time is precious too. I have stopped trying to make up for lost time, mind you.
Hopefully you get what I mean. (:~))
> I do manage to save quite a bit, but then spend it on an expedition somewhere! Its what I live for. I will never be able to afford to buy my own house, but that doesnt really worry me. Not at the moment anyway
I dare say what you lose in one area you gain in another Sonja, while I'm at peace with having 'lost' ten years to get to a stage where working for a living is realistic (though it's not been without merit in the sense of life lessons), I've not been going on trips or to other countries, and generally 'living freely' in that time. I might have a house to call my own, but time is precious too. I have stopped trying to make up for lost time, mind you.
Hopefully you get what I mean. (:~))
Post edited at 18:53
In reply to toasted:
I've run the numbers for doing this in my area of The North. If I didn't mind staying as a lodger for a few years (I've done that before for > 1 year) and then didn't mind having a lodger, it works out reasonably well, including saving and then buying a house of the standard that I currently live in. The house would be paid of in a reasonable time as well. After a few years I could afford to run a reasonable car, and would have a moderate fun/eating out budget, as well as saving enough in an ongoing way towards retirement and as a buffer against temporary unemployment.
Unless I really enjoy my job I don't think I'd be very happy though. Then again that is largely true regardless of salary.
Edit: I'm pretty stingy and budget to the penny, but my minimum wage scenarios involve eliminating a lot more spending - only charity shop clothes, cooking from scratch and not shopping at supermarkets, not boozing more than a few pints a week, camping holidays, cheap 2nd hand gadgets only, stingy with the heating or a lot of time dot and dabbing insulated plasterboard. Although after a few years, I'd plan to save ~£3k per year and would split it between rock solid and P2P investment with the aim of generating 3% per year. If I could stick with that for 10 years I'd have no mortgage, savings generating ~ £1k per year and a lodger brining in perhaps £2.5k per year. Between that and the house, that's enough income for a really miserly person to quit work and not starve or be evicted over bills, so then I'd have freedom to be pickier over jobs.
All this relies on not being having periods of under/unemployment in the first ten years, and hinges on being in an area with decent houses going for £30k.
> Does anyone else manage on this sort of wage on a more permanent basis? What is life like?
I've run the numbers for doing this in my area of The North. If I didn't mind staying as a lodger for a few years (I've done that before for > 1 year) and then didn't mind having a lodger, it works out reasonably well, including saving and then buying a house of the standard that I currently live in. The house would be paid of in a reasonable time as well. After a few years I could afford to run a reasonable car, and would have a moderate fun/eating out budget, as well as saving enough in an ongoing way towards retirement and as a buffer against temporary unemployment.
Unless I really enjoy my job I don't think I'd be very happy though. Then again that is largely true regardless of salary.
Edit: I'm pretty stingy and budget to the penny, but my minimum wage scenarios involve eliminating a lot more spending - only charity shop clothes, cooking from scratch and not shopping at supermarkets, not boozing more than a few pints a week, camping holidays, cheap 2nd hand gadgets only, stingy with the heating or a lot of time dot and dabbing insulated plasterboard. Although after a few years, I'd plan to save ~£3k per year and would split it between rock solid and P2P investment with the aim of generating 3% per year. If I could stick with that for 10 years I'd have no mortgage, savings generating ~ £1k per year and a lodger brining in perhaps £2.5k per year. Between that and the house, that's enough income for a really miserly person to quit work and not starve or be evicted over bills, so then I'd have freedom to be pickier over jobs.
All this relies on not being having periods of under/unemployment in the first ten years, and hinges on being in an area with decent houses going for £30k.
Post edited at 19:00
In reply to Timmd:
Yes, I do understand what you mean. Although I might have made things sound bad, I am really happy with my life and feel lucky to be able to live my dreams. As I have got older, time has become more precious. I might not have much money but feel rich in other ways. It sounds as if you have been through tough times and I wish you well for the future
Yes, I do understand what you mean. Although I might have made things sound bad, I am really happy with my life and feel lucky to be able to live my dreams. As I have got older, time has become more precious. I might not have much money but feel rich in other ways. It sounds as if you have been through tough times and I wish you well for the future
3
In reply to redsonja:
Thanks. I'm still here, it's not beaten me by any means. (:~))
Thanks. I'm still here, it's not beaten me by any means. (:~))
Post edited at 19:45
In reply to The New NickB:
Depends what you mean by decent. 2-bed mid terrace in a northern pit village, hundreds and hundreds of them. A random example - okay it's £36k but hey - http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-47569526.html
That'll put put you in bus or cycling distance of a lot of places.
Is it decent? It'll keep the weather out, give you a shower, loo and kitchen and it's not fallen down in 100 years. It's enough to give a single earner minimum wage household a serious leg up.
Not much use Down South mind you!
> Decent houses for £30k, can't be too many areas that fit that criteria!
Depends what you mean by decent. 2-bed mid terrace in a northern pit village, hundreds and hundreds of them. A random example - okay it's £36k but hey - http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-47569526.html
That'll put put you in bus or cycling distance of a lot of places.
Is it decent? It'll keep the weather out, give you a shower, loo and kitchen and it's not fallen down in 100 years. It's enough to give a single earner minimum wage household a serious leg up.
Not much use Down South mind you!
Post edited at 22:42
In reply to toasted:
I'm on minimum wage at the moment - but not quite because I've got a lodger.
I manage to pay my mortgage and bills (low), eat decent food, but I don't buy anything, go on holiday (just climbing trips with tent) or go out really. I run a car (a bit - not a lot of driving). It's not really sustainable for me as all my stuff (that I bought when I had a professional's salary) is getting gradually knackered and I can't afford to replace any of it. I'm glad this is for a limited period, but it's doable. I'd be screwed without having the lodger and low interest rates though.
I'm on minimum wage at the moment - but not quite because I've got a lodger.
I manage to pay my mortgage and bills (low), eat decent food, but I don't buy anything, go on holiday (just climbing trips with tent) or go out really. I run a car (a bit - not a lot of driving). It's not really sustainable for me as all my stuff (that I bought when I had a professional's salary) is getting gradually knackered and I can't afford to replace any of it. I'm glad this is for a limited period, but it's doable. I'd be screwed without having the lodger and low interest rates though.
1
In reply to toasted:
Try surviving on Carers Allowance (look it up)
But since I knocked the fags on the head, it seems like a fortune!
Try surviving on Carers Allowance (look it up)
But since I knocked the fags on the head, it seems like a fortune!
In reply to wintertree:
I think Country Durham is a bit of a special case, at least 95% of the population don't have access to property anything like that cheap.
I think Country Durham is a bit of a special case, at least 95% of the population don't have access to property anything like that cheap.
In reply to The New NickB:
A bit of right moving turns up similar priced properties in Sheffield, a bit more expensive in Manchester etc. If you raise the budget to £50k - which is quite doable - many northern areas have a lot of houses in that price range.
> I think Country Durham is a bit of a special case, at least 95% of the population don't have access to property anything like that cheap.
A bit of right moving turns up similar priced properties in Sheffield, a bit more expensive in Manchester etc. If you raise the budget to £50k - which is quite doable - many northern areas have a lot of houses in that price range.
In reply to Axel Smeets:
Agreed a bit sloppy but I wasn't offering Tax advice.
> Some massive assumptions there and some completely incorrect statements.
Agreed a bit sloppy but I wasn't offering Tax advice.
In reply to The New NickB:
It was an odd choice of words to use.... " bought a house in my name" rather than the more normal surely....
"Mum & Dad have bought me a house" or "Mum & Dad have helped me get a property"
As for the rest of it your either extremely naive or not had any dealings with HMRC IMHO
> I assumed it was bought in his name as a gift to help him in life. Tim owns the property, he lives in it, nobody is liable for any Capital Gains Tax, this isn't a dodge, you don't pay Capital Gains on your (only) home. Inheritance Tax maybe an issue at some point.
It was an odd choice of words to use.... " bought a house in my name" rather than the more normal surely....
"Mum & Dad have bought me a house" or "Mum & Dad have helped me get a property"
As for the rest of it your either extremely naive or not had any dealings with HMRC IMHO
In reply to Indy:
Nick is correct as I understand it. If Timmd is the genuine and registered owner of the home, albeit paid for by the parents, then the only tax liability which could arise would be a tapering portion of inheritance tax crystallising in the event of them both dying within seven years of the purchase or gift of the house.and even then, only if their estate exceeds several hundred thousand pounds
There's no need for scaremongering. And for all we know the seven years are already or soon up and HMRC have nothing to interest them.
Nick is correct as I understand it. If Timmd is the genuine and registered owner of the home, albeit paid for by the parents, then the only tax liability which could arise would be a tapering portion of inheritance tax crystallising in the event of them both dying within seven years of the purchase or gift of the house.and even then, only if their estate exceeds several hundred thousand pounds
There's no need for scaremongering. And for all we know the seven years are already or soon up and HMRC have nothing to interest them.
Post edited at 19:18
In reply to Indy:
Or just correct.
I suspect you never give your opinion humbly.
> As for the rest of it your either extremely naive or not had any dealings with HMRC IMHO
Or just correct.
I suspect you never give your opinion humbly.
In reply to toasted:
OK, here comes my flaming.
You didn't ask for advice; you asked for others in the same situation. However, I think you need advice and to change the situation.
At 42, with a masters - any masters - you have more skills and experience than you are selling at minimum wage. And, while I'm on for a hiding from UKC, there's some urgency in sorting it out or you risk being *very* miserable when you are older. The state pension is less than minimum wage, and you're already mid-working life.
Now, if your parents are loaded and you're going to inherit massively then maybe there's nothing to worry about. However, if they're not, and in any case for your own mental health, I reckon you should put some serious energy into looking for a more secure, better paid role.
But, having given advice unasked for, and speculated roundly about a situation I know the barest sliver of, I may as well go the whole hog and speculate that your self esteem is both cause and effect here... and that an investment (of time and energy) into "resetting it to normal" might be the best decision you make for some time. It sounds like a perfect storm - work, the end of your relationship and your moving back with parents all undermining your sense of self-worth. So seek out one of the counselling charities in your area and find someone who can help you reconstruct your self-view in a less (negatively) biased way.
The rest will follow.
> I guess I should say, I am living in the future -sort of - I'm 42 now. And back living with parents after having lived abroad and a break up with my girlfriend.
> It's just a frightening position to be in, I can't and don't want to rely on my parents, but at the moment I don't have much choice.
> As for improving my prospects, I've been down the open university route and also gained a masters degree. Unfortunately I also suffer with chronic low self esteem. Trying to work on that but it has been an ever present in my life. That's why I'm scared - if I can't deal with it my life will be so difficult.
OK, here comes my flaming.
You didn't ask for advice; you asked for others in the same situation. However, I think you need advice and to change the situation.
At 42, with a masters - any masters - you have more skills and experience than you are selling at minimum wage. And, while I'm on for a hiding from UKC, there's some urgency in sorting it out or you risk being *very* miserable when you are older. The state pension is less than minimum wage, and you're already mid-working life.
Now, if your parents are loaded and you're going to inherit massively then maybe there's nothing to worry about. However, if they're not, and in any case for your own mental health, I reckon you should put some serious energy into looking for a more secure, better paid role.
But, having given advice unasked for, and speculated roundly about a situation I know the barest sliver of, I may as well go the whole hog and speculate that your self esteem is both cause and effect here... and that an investment (of time and energy) into "resetting it to normal" might be the best decision you make for some time. It sounds like a perfect storm - work, the end of your relationship and your moving back with parents all undermining your sense of self-worth. So seek out one of the counselling charities in your area and find someone who can help you reconstruct your self-view in a less (negatively) biased way.
The rest will follow.
Post edited at 21:15
5
In reply to JJL:
You're pretty much spot on there.
I am seeing a counsellor at the moment. Hopefully I can make something of it.
It's just really hard to think about the future in a positive way- and also choosing and investing in a job/career.
Will stick with it though, seem to be making some progress with the counsellor.
You're pretty much spot on there.
I am seeing a counsellor at the moment. Hopefully I can make something of it.
It's just really hard to think about the future in a positive way- and also choosing and investing in a job/career.
Will stick with it though, seem to be making some progress with the counsellor.
1
In reply to toasted:
Currently living on ~8k a year (studying full-time and working 20-30 hours a week). Bought full trad rack over this winter and still managed to get to few places to climb in the winter, including a nice stay in a hostel in Glencoe for few days.
If you want to, everything is doable with few workarounds. I usually hitch-hike to get to mountains (or ask friends and pay for fuel and a wee bit more), cycle as much as I can, don't drink or smoke, don't party, avoid eating out (still manage to get a sandwich or something few times a week). I also pay not a huge amount for rent as my main priority was a cheap, not luxurious room.
Currently living on ~8k a year (studying full-time and working 20-30 hours a week). Bought full trad rack over this winter and still managed to get to few places to climb in the winter, including a nice stay in a hostel in Glencoe for few days.
If you want to, everything is doable with few workarounds. I usually hitch-hike to get to mountains (or ask friends and pay for fuel and a wee bit more), cycle as much as I can, don't drink or smoke, don't party, avoid eating out (still manage to get a sandwich or something few times a week). I also pay not a huge amount for rent as my main priority was a cheap, not luxurious room.
In reply to toasted:
Not a Green Party member but noticed that they are the only party to propose a £10 per hour minimum wage. I would support that. Don't care how it's paid for. It wouldn't be lost money as the recipients would buy things and contribute to the economy. Maybe that's too simple.....
Not a Green Party member but noticed that they are the only party to propose a £10 per hour minimum wage. I would support that. Don't care how it's paid for. It wouldn't be lost money as the recipients would buy things and contribute to the economy. Maybe that's too simple.....
In reply to Neil Williams:
>Not an economist but can't see how a minimum wage of £10 an hour would cause 'rampant' inflation. It might cause inflationary pressure but the effect would depend on any number of other factors at the time eg price of oil. What happened when the minimum wage was first introduced? Maybe it could be introduced gradually as conditions permit.
> It is too simple. It would cause rampant inflation.
>Not an economist but can't see how a minimum wage of £10 an hour would cause 'rampant' inflation. It might cause inflationary pressure but the effect would depend on any number of other factors at the time eg price of oil. What happened when the minimum wage was first introduced? Maybe it could be introduced gradually as conditions permit.
In reply to Pekkie:
It could be introduced gradually - this would be the only way to do it. However, it's a fact that increasing wages increases the price of products and services, which then increases the need for higher wages.
You could set the minimum wage as £10 tomorrow, but very quickly £10 would become worth £6.50. So it would have to be done very, very carefully.
Neil
It could be introduced gradually - this would be the only way to do it. However, it's a fact that increasing wages increases the price of products and services, which then increases the need for higher wages.
You could set the minimum wage as £10 tomorrow, but very quickly £10 would become worth £6.50. So it would have to be done very, very carefully.
Neil
In reply to Neil Williams:
This is a fraught area. Think of it this way: let's suppose you pay a window cleaner £15 to clean your windows, and he can do that and make a small profit by just about paying the minimum wage to his/her employees. Now, if the minimum wage goes up, self evidently he/she has to charge you more to continue to make a profit. At which point you will either a) decline to use his/her service, and so put people out of work. b) Use a different company, who can only afford to provide the service at the original price because they DON'T pay the minimum wage, so you will be encouraging the black economy, or c) pay the additional amount, but then claim the extra from YOUR employer in the form of a pay rise, and so contribute to wage inflation.
It isn't rocket science.
And there's another twist. There's some people who don't NEED the minimum wage, they just want 'pin money' - something to top up their income, get them out of the house, give them some traction. And there's plenty of services that could be provided by such people, but only at a rate less than the minimum wage. The minimum wage kills these sorts of jobs stone dead.
This is a fraught area. Think of it this way: let's suppose you pay a window cleaner £15 to clean your windows, and he can do that and make a small profit by just about paying the minimum wage to his/her employees. Now, if the minimum wage goes up, self evidently he/she has to charge you more to continue to make a profit. At which point you will either a) decline to use his/her service, and so put people out of work. b) Use a different company, who can only afford to provide the service at the original price because they DON'T pay the minimum wage, so you will be encouraging the black economy, or c) pay the additional amount, but then claim the extra from YOUR employer in the form of a pay rise, and so contribute to wage inflation.
It isn't rocket science.
And there's another twist. There's some people who don't NEED the minimum wage, they just want 'pin money' - something to top up their income, get them out of the house, give them some traction. And there's plenty of services that could be provided by such people, but only at a rate less than the minimum wage. The minimum wage kills these sorts of jobs stone dead.
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Boo-f*cking-hooo, why won't anyone think of the bosses.
Roll out citizens income and watch a massive inflation ... of british climbing standards.
Boo-f*cking-hooo, why won't anyone think of the bosses.
Roll out citizens income and watch a massive inflation ... of british climbing standards.
2
In reply to Neil Williams:
The minimum wage works because it's set at more or less (a bit less than, probably) the equilibrium price for low skilled labour. Thus it doesn't have any effect on those playing fairly, but it does provide information to both workers and employers about what the price is, which is obviously a good thing.
I tend to agree that if £10 is above the equilibrium price for an hour's unskilled work, then it's not a good idea: the overall impact will be negative in terms of killing jobs, even if those who work for employers who can afford it would enjoy the payrise.
The minimum wage works because it's set at more or less (a bit less than, probably) the equilibrium price for low skilled labour. Thus it doesn't have any effect on those playing fairly, but it does provide information to both workers and employers about what the price is, which is obviously a good thing.
I tend to agree that if £10 is above the equilibrium price for an hour's unskilled work, then it's not a good idea: the overall impact will be negative in terms of killing jobs, even if those who work for employers who can afford it would enjoy the payrise.
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Like, say, £5,000 a day?
> And there's another twist. There's some people who don't NEED the minimum wage, they just want 'pin money' - something to top up their income, get them out of the house.....
Like, say, £5,000 a day?
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Obviously it depends what you set the minimum wage as, but there's little evidence of this happening at the levels which rich coutries set the minimum wage. (Poor countries tend not to have one and/or be studied)
> The minimum wage kills these sorts of jobs stone dead.
Obviously it depends what you set the minimum wage as, but there's little evidence of this happening at the levels which rich coutries set the minimum wage. (Poor countries tend not to have one and/or be studied)
In reply to toasted:
Why do you want to live on the minimum wage in the longterm.? You can clearly write a put forward a good argument, surely you can be motivated/aim for a higher wage?
There are thousands /millions of people trying to get into the UK to improve their living standards. I do not understand why you are aiming so low.
Can you explain???
Why do you want to live on the minimum wage in the longterm.? You can clearly write a put forward a good argument, surely you can be motivated/aim for a higher wage?
There are thousands /millions of people trying to get into the UK to improve their living standards. I do not understand why you are aiming so low.
Can you explain???
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Yes, the purpose of the minimum wage is to catch out those being very unfair (£2/hour cleaning jobs and the likes), not to equalise incomes. You'd need other measures to do that, and generally the easiest one is to skew the tax system in favour of the low paid, with things like very high personal allowances so those on the minimum wage pay no tax[1], for example, rather than trying to set a high minimum wage which just causes inflation so the new higher figure is worth what the old lower one was.
[1] Except VAT, one of the many reasons I dislike it and think it should be abolished in favour of increased income tax.
Neil
Yes, the purpose of the minimum wage is to catch out those being very unfair (£2/hour cleaning jobs and the likes), not to equalise incomes. You'd need other measures to do that, and generally the easiest one is to skew the tax system in favour of the low paid, with things like very high personal allowances so those on the minimum wage pay no tax[1], for example, rather than trying to set a high minimum wage which just causes inflation so the new higher figure is worth what the old lower one was.
[1] Except VAT, one of the many reasons I dislike it and think it should be abolished in favour of increased income tax.
Neil
Post edited at 10:01
In reply to Donnie:
Poor countries are increasingly using conditional cash transfer (the cash is given to the poorest families in return for eg childrens' attendance at school and health clinics) schemes which have been demonstrated to alleviate poverty and assist development in latin america eg Mexico and Brazil, and are about to be introduced in India and Indonesia. Not a panacea but an interesting development.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_cash_transfer
> Obviously it depends what you set the minimum wage as, but there's little evidence of this happening at the levels which rich coutries set the minimum wage. (Poor countries tend not to have one and/or be studied)
Poor countries are increasingly using conditional cash transfer (the cash is given to the poorest families in return for eg childrens' attendance at school and health clinics) schemes which have been demonstrated to alleviate poverty and assist development in latin america eg Mexico and Brazil, and are about to be introduced in India and Indonesia. Not a panacea but an interesting development.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_cash_transfer
In reply to neilh:
He should surely take a leaf out of Malcolm Rifkind and Jack Straw's books, these two guys cannot manage on their measly salary (of £60-£70K) but they are doiung something about it , and are putting themselves out there and improving their living standards
> (In reply to toasted)
>
> Why do you want to live on the minimum wage in the longterm.? You can clearly write a put forward a good argument, surely you can be motivated/aim for a higher wage?
>
> There are thousands /millions of people trying to get into the UK to improve their living standards. I do not understand why you are aiming so low.
>
>
> Why do you want to live on the minimum wage in the longterm.? You can clearly write a put forward a good argument, surely you can be motivated/aim for a higher wage?
>
> There are thousands /millions of people trying to get into the UK to improve their living standards. I do not understand why you are aiming so low.
>
He should surely take a leaf out of Malcolm Rifkind and Jack Straw's books, these two guys cannot manage on their measly salary (of £60-£70K) but they are doiung something about it , and are putting themselves out there and improving their living standards
In reply to Jim C:
Jack Straw has just been on the radio sounding anxious and saying what he really ment.
Jack Straw has just been on the radio sounding anxious and saying what he really ment.
In reply to neilh:
You've got the wrong end of the stick.
> Why do you want to live on the minimum wage in the longterm.? You can clearly write a put forward a good argument, surely you can be motivated/aim for a higher wage?
> There are thousands /millions of people trying to get into the UK to improve their living standards. I do not understand why you are aiming so low.
> Can you explain???
You've got the wrong end of the stick.
1
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