UKC

When working a route on your own would people recommend using a static or dynamic rope? Thinking about popping out after work when folks are busy.

In reply to fire_munki:

As in shunting? Static better in my experience.

In reply to Cheese Monkey:

Yeah, just working out the moves. So with on shunt or grigri. Prob my shunt and then ab back off.

In reply to fire_munki:

I'm doing quite a bit of the same thing at the moment re. new sport routes and I'm using a 10mm Beal semi-static, which does stretch quite a bit when loaded. I'm not sure if you can still buy a static these days (someone will now doubtless come along and say 'of course you can') as I think they've been replaced by semi-statics.

Anyway, enough musing. My recommendation = a static rope.

In reply to Dave Williams:

Coolio, it is semi. Know which one to lug in then.

In reply to fire_munki:

I don't mind using dynamic rope, but if you are planning a lot of ascending, then you'd rather go for a static.

On the other hand, I usually just use a cheap rope that is just about to get retired so I don't care about washing it, etc.

In reply to Dave Williams:

Of course you can. ;O)

'Static' and 'semi-static' are the same thing. They just changed the name to reflect that fact that a 'static' is not truly static. Actually they've changed the name again since, it's often called 'Low Stretch Kernmantle' these days instead.

In reply to fire_munki:

semi-static. There is a white rope that I think banafingers or rockrun sell by the metre that is pretty cheap. I bought 30m of that and use it on the southern sandstone with a mini traxion, love it.

In reply to fire_munki:

If you're buying static, Caving Supplies also sell it by the metre in various diameters for fairly cheap.

In reply to deepsoup:


It's all rather a huge mess because people frequently misuse the terms, and rope standards are reflected by geography. Having said that, I don't think it's accurate to say things like Static' and 'semi-static' are the same thing.

Semistatic typically might refer to a rope that meets the requirements of EN1891 Type A (100kg test weight) or B (80kg), which will survive 5 FF1 falls, and has a max impact force of 6kN in a FF0.3 situation.

CI 1801 defines 'low stretch' as having greater than 6% and less than 10% elongation at 10% of MBS, and 'static' as less than 6% at 10% of MBS. It also defines minimum MBS based on diameter. Skimming through it, I don't see any drop testing being done.

There's also NPFA 1983, which is available free online...Through a not very easy to use web interface. That roughly seems to say to refer to CI 1801. I didn't notice any drop tests, but only looked at the testing chapter.

If anyone happens to know more about the what 'static' is I'd be happy to hear!


If we check out the Petzl ropes page, they make a distinction of semistatic vs static:
http://www.petzl.com/en/Professional/Ropes

Beal considers calling semistatic ropes static as 'wrong':
http://bealplanet.com/sport/anglais/technicite-corde-page.php

In reply to fire_munki:

The UK military use black Marlow for stuff like fast roping, roller haulage, triple bowline harness, etc. you can buy it commercially either in black or white.

In reply to fire_munki:

I like two dynamic lines:

- As a climber you always have a use for dynamic and probably already have a bit of it, you only sometimes have a use for semistatic/static. Solo TR isn't as awesome as it sounds, and it sucks to buy kit for a specific purpose and only end up using it once or twice.

- I've climbed above the anchors on solo TR as it was more convenient to top out rather than rap down and walk out - I'd probably never do that if I used static/semistatic

- There's always a bit of a shock load, ascenders are relatively weak so minimising the load on them is good. Also every now and again you get slack, furthering the shock load potential

- If you're careful with your dynamic, sheath wear isn't much of a big deal. If you're not careful, sheath wear is a big deal - regardless of if its dynamic or semistatic or static

In reply to needvert:

Heh. Should have know that would happen. :O)
Yep, fair enough, you're right.

However, in true UKC style, some wrangling follows...

For climbers/cavers buying ropes for abseiling/SRT/rigging in Europe, it's accurate enough. Any rope they're going to find in a shop, sold for that purpose, will be certified to EN1981. That is the stuff we used to call 'static' back in the day (rightly or wrongly, many still do), and that's what everyone up the thread who says to use a 'static' is talking about.

The other two standards you mention are American. (And the 'static' as opposed to 'semi-static' ropes on the Petzl website are certified to the nfpa standard for sale to American emergency services. I could be wrong, but I don't think you'll find that stuff carrying a CE mark, or for sale anywhere in Europe.)

The Marlow Black that John Simpson mentions is both CE marked and more 'static' than would be allowed by EN1891. Marlow test it to an internal standard of their own, which is based on EN1891 without the drop-test. They sell it to the military with instructions that it is for abseiling use only (ie: not for rigging, top-roping or SRT). Of course being the military whether they actually follow the manufacturers instructions or not is up to them..

You can buy it in the UK, but not over the counter in any climbing/caving shop as far as I'm aware. It does turn up in army-surplus type places and via ebay from time to time.

In reply to John Simpson:

You can? Never heard of white Marlow Black before - I thought they were with Henry Ford.

In reply to tehmarks:
Caving Supplies (in Buxton) is a brilliant little shop, with quite a rubbish website.
Am I right in thinking they still manufacture some bags and wotnot upstairs?

For mail order it's probably best to give them a ring. Opening hours can be a bit eccentric sometimes, so it's also worth giving them a bell to check they'll be open if making a trip to Buxton to call in. (I appreciate the OP isn't likely to be doing that as his profile says he's in Plymouth.)

In reply to needvert:

Yeah, I second all these points. I use an old sport climbing rope for shunting, doubled. It can be a bit hairy at times, until you become accustomed to it, so having a rope with a bit of width help anxiety levels, and is much easier to pull up/down on. You will find, if you're working moves properly, that you'll always end up with some short 'dynamic' slumps/falls onto the rope, so a dynamic would be essential imho.

In reply to deepsoup:

Yes some form of oxymoron that one white black marlow!

In reply to needvert:
Quite agree. Have a 'like'.

Generally what I'll do when I'm (fairly infrequently) doing a bit of solo TR on the grit is use slings and/or a short static (ok, ok, semi-static) rope to rig an anchor, and have two dynamic ropes - usually two halves of the same 50m single - from there. Requires care low down, as it's possible to deck on rope-stretch early on.

Given the choice though, I'd *much* rather find a partner and climb 'properly'.

In reply to deepsoup:

Nice reply

(As a few have picked over the years I'm not exactly from these parts)

In reply to Cheese Monkey:


Seriously? I am no expert in the joys of soloing up ropes, but if the whole system isn't tight all the time if you fell off, even a few inches of slack in the system would shock the whole system resulting in rock / gear failure and a broken back. Surely a dynamic rope eliminates this potential disaster situation and when said soloer finds a climbing friend, it can be used as a standard climbing rope too.

In reply to ByEek:

http://bealplanet.com/sport/anglais/technicite-corde-page.php

"Semi-static ropes
Technical reference = Standard EN 1891
They are most of the time wrongly called static. They allow access to and maintenance at the work site. They have moderate stretch which allows them to absorb sufficient energy to arrest falls of factor 0.3 ."

(My italics.)

A semi-static is a valid choice. Preferred by some specifically because it's less stretchy than a dynamic rope (which reduces the 'bounce' when falling, and may also reduce the risk of decking out on rope stretch low down), and also because the sheath is generally more hard wearing.

In reply to ByEek:

I can see the logic in that, but watching the video of Leo Houlding working on the Prophet he's on what looks to be a lot of white static. Although he's using a grigri not a shunt.

In reply to ByEek:


No. As has been pointed out above, what we call static, isn't really all that static and can deal with low energy, low fall factor falls onto soloing devices fine. In the dvd's of the big boys and girls you will see repeated falls whilst soloing on 'static' ropes often on a grigri. The use of a grigri implies they are happy to plop onto a 'static' with slack in the system, as a grigri will not normally self feed so you end up with several feet of slack.

What would be a bad idea is climbing near or above the anchor point with slack in the system. This would create a large fall factor, and would be stressful for mind, body and soul; and the device/anchor.