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Just signed up for my first Ultra in 6 weeks time.
40 miles, 2,800M Vertical, 14hr cut off.
Currently up to 20 reasonably hilly miles non stop on empty stomach and legs not sore the next day.
I think (and I'm no expert) but the closest thing I will have done to this is the Welsh 14 peaks (30 miles and 14 hours walking).
Any hints and tips on food and strategy for the day? what is the maximum milage I should be aiming for in Training?
I'm a bit scared. Theres a big difference between 20 and 40 miles.
Cheers
40 miles, 2,800M Vertical, 14hr cut off.
Currently up to 20 reasonably hilly miles non stop on empty stomach and legs not sore the next day.
I think (and I'm no expert) but the closest thing I will have done to this is the Welsh 14 peaks (30 miles and 14 hours walking).
Any hints and tips on food and strategy for the day? what is the maximum milage I should be aiming for in Training?
I'm a bit scared. Theres a big difference between 20 and 40 miles.
Cheers
In reply to steveej:
I'm no expert and there will be a wide range of views on this but...
6 weeks - not long to go.... you have 3, perhaps 4 training weeks before tapering down. In those weeks I'd probably do a 22, a 24 and a 26, keeping the same amount or a little more hill each time - how much hill are you doing on your 20 miler? Try to be getting somewhere between 1500 and 2000 of ascent if you can. Then perhaps you might fit in a 30 miler, perhaps over easier terrain and take that one very slow, effectively at the speed you aim to do your 40 at. Practice eating and hydration on that one and aim for time on feet and being in good condition at the end of it. That one will help by giving time on feet, getting used to appropriate pacing and will mentally give you the boost of 'I've done 75% of the distance'.....
Mid weeks aim for a gently recovery run, short easy and lots of stretching, one longer easy run and one speed session of some kind. Make your gently run gently and your speed run hard... don't let them fall into a mid ground of too fast for recovery/too slow for speed as you don't get the benefits you are aiming for then.
You could also consider doing back to backs... 15 to 20 miles one day (late in day if possible) then 10 the next morning early so you have only limited rest between... aim to do both those sessions at your race pace so that again you are getting time on feet and used to running on tired legs but less strain/injury potential than doing 30 to 35 straight off.
Take it easy in last 2 weeks. Even in the 6 you will not get much fitter, in the last 2 you definitely will not and you should aim to take it easy and arrive at race on fresh legs. Take your boost and confidence from knowing you have done long sessions 3 to 6 weeks back, not 'I did 20 k at a good pace 2 days ago'.
Running empty is good - gets your body used to using fat. Just find some bars/gels etc that you like and can stomach now so that you know what to eat on the run. Keep fluids up (you need a lot to absorb even the gels you are taking on) but don't over do the water or you may feel uncomfortable or actually overhydrate if not careful. And if you are troubled about time, remember you can make a huge gain through efficiency. If you typically run 20 miles plus without stopping much, you can do the same on race day... you don't need to fill bottles, eat, take a break at every check point... just dib in and sail through if all is going well, or grab a banana and carry on or whatever. Equally, try to know or visualise the route and be able to get kit in and out of bag, map etc whiel on the move so that you can navigate without stopping etc. Not uncommon for me to be passed regularly by people that I then sail past as they faff with bags, agonise over map at every junction/track turning etc... if you are confident at nav and can read map and terrain you can cruise along a lot more efficiently.
I'm no expert and there will be a wide range of views on this but...
6 weeks - not long to go.... you have 3, perhaps 4 training weeks before tapering down. In those weeks I'd probably do a 22, a 24 and a 26, keeping the same amount or a little more hill each time - how much hill are you doing on your 20 miler? Try to be getting somewhere between 1500 and 2000 of ascent if you can. Then perhaps you might fit in a 30 miler, perhaps over easier terrain and take that one very slow, effectively at the speed you aim to do your 40 at. Practice eating and hydration on that one and aim for time on feet and being in good condition at the end of it. That one will help by giving time on feet, getting used to appropriate pacing and will mentally give you the boost of 'I've done 75% of the distance'.....
Mid weeks aim for a gently recovery run, short easy and lots of stretching, one longer easy run and one speed session of some kind. Make your gently run gently and your speed run hard... don't let them fall into a mid ground of too fast for recovery/too slow for speed as you don't get the benefits you are aiming for then.
You could also consider doing back to backs... 15 to 20 miles one day (late in day if possible) then 10 the next morning early so you have only limited rest between... aim to do both those sessions at your race pace so that again you are getting time on feet and used to running on tired legs but less strain/injury potential than doing 30 to 35 straight off.
Take it easy in last 2 weeks. Even in the 6 you will not get much fitter, in the last 2 you definitely will not and you should aim to take it easy and arrive at race on fresh legs. Take your boost and confidence from knowing you have done long sessions 3 to 6 weeks back, not 'I did 20 k at a good pace 2 days ago'.
Running empty is good - gets your body used to using fat. Just find some bars/gels etc that you like and can stomach now so that you know what to eat on the run. Keep fluids up (you need a lot to absorb even the gels you are taking on) but don't over do the water or you may feel uncomfortable or actually overhydrate if not careful. And if you are troubled about time, remember you can make a huge gain through efficiency. If you typically run 20 miles plus without stopping much, you can do the same on race day... you don't need to fill bottles, eat, take a break at every check point... just dib in and sail through if all is going well, or grab a banana and carry on or whatever. Equally, try to know or visualise the route and be able to get kit in and out of bag, map etc whiel on the move so that you can navigate without stopping etc. Not uncommon for me to be passed regularly by people that I then sail past as they faff with bags, agonise over map at every junction/track turning etc... if you are confident at nav and can read map and terrain you can cruise along a lot more efficiently.
In reply to steveej:
*Edit - Ferret answered as I was typing and pretty much nailed it - but here's my 2p anyway.
With 6 weeks you've only got one 'phase' left really so will need to start tapering down in about 3 weeks.
Try to get one more long run in - I would try to get 30 (easy) miles in and practice your food strategy during that run. I noticed you're in Bristol - I've just signed up for the Marlborough Downs Challenge (33 miles) in a couple of weeks since I'll be in the area anyway and it looked like a nice day out - looks like a perfect pre-ultra training run as its mostly trail but not very hilly.
I wouldn't run 20 training miles on an empty stomach - you need to train your body to take in the calories when you're on the move and during the race you want to be eating every 45 mins or so (again, its all down to personal preference, circumstances etc). What Ferret said above about training your body to burn fat has merit, but for your first ultra you need to know you can handle running and eating - don't underestimate how seasick you will feel after potentially 8-10 hours of your stomach sloshing up and down.
Basically treat your first ultra as a learning experience (I DNF'd my first at the 65km point) and try your best to enjoy it.
As for food on the day you will probably get sick of sweet stuff as the day goes on but everyone is different. I find salty stuff goes down well but you need to watch the fluids too - cold slices of pizza, cheese and marmite muffins (my wife's concoction) but you just need to experiment.
Where is the race out of interest?
*Edit - Ferret answered as I was typing and pretty much nailed it - but here's my 2p anyway.
With 6 weeks you've only got one 'phase' left really so will need to start tapering down in about 3 weeks.
Try to get one more long run in - I would try to get 30 (easy) miles in and practice your food strategy during that run. I noticed you're in Bristol - I've just signed up for the Marlborough Downs Challenge (33 miles) in a couple of weeks since I'll be in the area anyway and it looked like a nice day out - looks like a perfect pre-ultra training run as its mostly trail but not very hilly.
I wouldn't run 20 training miles on an empty stomach - you need to train your body to take in the calories when you're on the move and during the race you want to be eating every 45 mins or so (again, its all down to personal preference, circumstances etc). What Ferret said above about training your body to burn fat has merit, but for your first ultra you need to know you can handle running and eating - don't underestimate how seasick you will feel after potentially 8-10 hours of your stomach sloshing up and down.
Basically treat your first ultra as a learning experience (I DNF'd my first at the 65km point) and try your best to enjoy it.
As for food on the day you will probably get sick of sweet stuff as the day goes on but everyone is different. I find salty stuff goes down well but you need to watch the fluids too - cold slices of pizza, cheese and marmite muffins (my wife's concoction) but you just need to experiment.
Where is the race out of interest?
Post edited at 10:52
In reply to steveej:
Personally I think your training has been wrong if you have been running 'non stop'.
Don't be disheartened though, as it's not that bad.
You won't be running 40miles non stop. So you need to train using a run/walk strategy and normally you'd be doing this from the start of the 'run'.
From 20miles 'non stop' I think you could easily do 40miles but you need to do some run/walk/eating while walking - training. It's the stopping and starting that's going to hurt.
I'm not sure you need to worry too much about the taper for ultras as. Maybe someone else can advise on that aspect.
Good luck.
Personally I think your training has been wrong if you have been running 'non stop'.
Don't be disheartened though, as it's not that bad.
You won't be running 40miles non stop. So you need to train using a run/walk strategy and normally you'd be doing this from the start of the 'run'.
From 20miles 'non stop' I think you could easily do 40miles but you need to do some run/walk/eating while walking - training. It's the stopping and starting that's going to hurt.
I'm not sure you need to worry too much about the taper for ultras as. Maybe someone else can advise on that aspect.
Good luck.
Post edited at 11:00
In reply to DancingOnRock:
It looks like the terrain will provide a natural run walk strategy, walk the hills.
It looks like the terrain will provide a natural run walk strategy, walk the hills.
In reply to steveej:
I wouldnt train empty, just stressing your body. I'd not do 3 long runs, just one more somewhere around the marathon testing kit you will use.
I wouldnt train empty, just stressing your body. I'd not do 3 long runs, just one more somewhere around the marathon testing kit you will use.
In reply to steveej:
Thanks everyone.
It's the 'Might Contain Nuts' Brecon Round 2 Ultra on 30th May.
My plan was to start running sections of the course over the next 6 weeks on my Saturdays.
I havent actually been training specifically for this race. Im training for a 7000M peak in Kazakhstan in July and so have been doing some running (50km a week), crossfit and load carries in readyness for that. I just thought the Ultra would be a good fitness test.
I have decent strength in my legs and can run 20 miles non stop after spending the previous day carrying 60lbs up a 1000m vertical. So figures this Ultra was not too unrealistic.
I think I could easily get another 10k+ by sorting my nutrition and starting to eat something, and another 10k from mixing the run walk strategy. So my thinking is I am not far off.
Of course I maybe wrong and may end up with a DNF, as I have no experience with these races.
Thanks everyone.
It's the 'Might Contain Nuts' Brecon Round 2 Ultra on 30th May.
My plan was to start running sections of the course over the next 6 weeks on my Saturdays.
I havent actually been training specifically for this race. Im training for a 7000M peak in Kazakhstan in July and so have been doing some running (50km a week), crossfit and load carries in readyness for that. I just thought the Ultra would be a good fitness test.
I have decent strength in my legs and can run 20 miles non stop after spending the previous day carrying 60lbs up a 1000m vertical. So figures this Ultra was not too unrealistic.
I think I could easily get another 10k+ by sorting my nutrition and starting to eat something, and another 10k from mixing the run walk strategy. So my thinking is I am not far off.
Of course I maybe wrong and may end up with a DNF, as I have no experience with these races.
In reply to Roadrunner5:
Best advice I can give for anyone's first ultra - apply lubrication in all the right places, and don't shake hands with anyone until you've washed yours.
(oh, and refuel early and often, in small amounts)
Best advice I can give for anyone's first ultra - apply lubrication in all the right places, and don't shake hands with anyone until you've washed yours.
(oh, and refuel early and often, in small amounts)
In reply to steveej:
You're definitely not far off. Try and get your food, equipment and head into gear (I don't really do that, I just set off and break it down into 5 or 6 mile stretches, ticking them off in my head). But if you're more analytical and need strategy do what you need to do to turn up relaxed and up for it. Easier than Welsh 3000s? Don't go bonkers on the long ones, your head will get you through. Bon chance!
You're definitely not far off. Try and get your food, equipment and head into gear (I don't really do that, I just set off and break it down into 5 or 6 mile stretches, ticking them off in my head). But if you're more analytical and need strategy do what you need to do to turn up relaxed and up for it. Easier than Welsh 3000s? Don't go bonkers on the long ones, your head will get you through. Bon chance!
In reply to steveej:
The main difference between 20 and 40 miles is in your head.
Eat, drink, go steady and start the event knowing in your head that you will finish it and you'll be fine. Don't rush on the first one, just finish and gain confidence.
The main difference between 20 and 40 miles is in your head.
Eat, drink, go steady and start the event knowing in your head that you will finish it and you'll be fine. Don't rush on the first one, just finish and gain confidence.
In reply to steveej:
Is it the MCN Ultra? If it is you won't be non stop running.
Try to run some 30milers before but as important is trying to get the legs used to the height gain expected, its brutal.
If it is the MCN let me know if you want to do a 40km recce of it as i'm looking to do one in the next week or so.
(didn't see your prev post, apologies)
Is it the MCN Ultra? If it is you won't be non stop running.
Try to run some 30milers before but as important is trying to get the legs used to the height gain expected, its brutal.
If it is the MCN let me know if you want to do a 40km recce of it as i'm looking to do one in the next week or so.
(didn't see your prev post, apologies)
Post edited at 13:05
In reply to steveej:
Above it says that with 6 weeks to go you will not get any fitter - is this really the case?
At what point does this start 6 weeks/7/8?
Above it says that with 6 weeks to go you will not get any fitter - is this really the case?
At what point does this start 6 weeks/7/8?
In reply to notaclue:
I think I said 'not much fitter' and that's predicated on the runner clearly being fit already, and that in my opinion, he only has 3 to 4 more training weeks before tapering for 2 or 3. It's not exact, but while already fit, one is not going to get significantly fitter in only 3 or 4 more weeks of activity. I see the last 6 weeks as a hitting your peak/consolidating and easing off period.
I think I said 'not much fitter' and that's predicated on the runner clearly being fit already, and that in my opinion, he only has 3 to 4 more training weeks before tapering for 2 or 3. It's not exact, but while already fit, one is not going to get significantly fitter in only 3 or 4 more weeks of activity. I see the last 6 weeks as a hitting your peak/consolidating and easing off period.
In reply to steveej:
I meant don't try to do too many or too far really. First outing so you're guaranteed a PB.
I meant don't try to do too many or too far really. First outing so you're guaranteed a PB.
Post edited at 22:06
In reply to notaclue:
No.. 6 weeks is time to get fitter.. a marathon cycle is 3-4 months.
> Above it says that with 6 weeks to go you will not get any fitter - is this really the case?
> At what point does this start 6 weeks/7/8?
No.. 6 weeks is time to get fitter.. a marathon cycle is 3-4 months.
In reply to SteveRi:
I dont know..
I was privileged to watch Zach Millers famous JFK50 debut.. he'd had very little experience of that sort of racing at that level and just laid it out and as the famous talking Zebra says 'don't look back leave it all on the track' and he did..
I'm running along with Wardian, Flaherty, Krar et al and some little stocky lad just buggers off ahead.. young lad we'll see him later..
We did.. at the finish.
It's all experience. I think many are too scared to ever go hard on ultra's if an experienced ultra runner has never crawled in or DNF'd then I question whether they'd ever really ran an honest race.
I dont know..
I was privileged to watch Zach Millers famous JFK50 debut.. he'd had very little experience of that sort of racing at that level and just laid it out and as the famous talking Zebra says 'don't look back leave it all on the track' and he did..
I'm running along with Wardian, Flaherty, Krar et al and some little stocky lad just buggers off ahead.. young lad we'll see him later..
We did.. at the finish.
It's all experience. I think many are too scared to ever go hard on ultra's if an experienced ultra runner has never crawled in or DNF'd then I question whether they'd ever really ran an honest race.
1
In reply to Roadrunner5:
I thought you might think that - that's probably why some of us are donkeys are some of us are winners
I just find some people put an awful lot of pressure in themselves before they even turn up at an U L T R A and there's really no need. We can all (caveat, caveat) get round if we want to ...I not really qualified to talk about what happens at the front!
I thought you might think that - that's probably why some of us are donkeys are some of us are winners
I just find some people put an awful lot of pressure in themselves before they even turn up at an U L T R A and there's really no need. We can all (caveat, caveat) get round if we want to ...I not really qualified to talk about what happens at the front!
1
In reply to steveej:
I think it is worth remembering that in 1981 the first London Marathon took place. I remember in subsequent years Chris Brasher writing about a marathon being the ultimate distance endurance event, and that is what most of us thought 30 years ago, completion of 26 miles was looked upon as something to boast about in the pub.
Then the fancy dress rhinos and supermen took over and it all went to s**t.
How things have moved on in distance events, but the best Brits still can't run 26 miles as quick as they did then. Odd.
I think it is worth remembering that in 1981 the first London Marathon took place. I remember in subsequent years Chris Brasher writing about a marathon being the ultimate distance endurance event, and that is what most of us thought 30 years ago, completion of 26 miles was looked upon as something to boast about in the pub.
Then the fancy dress rhinos and supermen took over and it all went to s**t.
How things have moved on in distance events, but the best Brits still can't run 26 miles as quick as they did then. Odd.
In reply to Moley:
I think it still is the ultimate distance to race, its got all aspects, speed and endurance. I love the distance. I just love how much harder 26 is than 20, 35-40 isn't that much different to the marathon but 20-26 is where you get a change in your physiology. Just such a great distance to race.
> I think it is worth remembering that in 1981 the first London Marathon took place. I remember in subsequent years Chris Brasher writing about a marathon being the ultimate distance endurance event, and that is what most of us thought 30 years ago, completion of 26 miles was looked upon as something to boast about in the pub.
I think it still is the ultimate distance to race, its got all aspects, speed and endurance. I love the distance. I just love how much harder 26 is than 20, 35-40 isn't that much different to the marathon but 20-26 is where you get a change in your physiology. Just such a great distance to race.
In reply to steveej:
Thanks everyone.
Anyone got any shoe reccomendations? I have been using Scarpa Spark but there is very little tread left.
Inov-8 X-Talon's fit well but theres not much cushioning. The Scarpa are supposed to be pretty minimalist and they feel like cushions in comparison.
Salomon Spreedcross?
Thanks everyone.
Anyone got any shoe reccomendations? I have been using Scarpa Spark but there is very little tread left.
Inov-8 X-Talon's fit well but theres not much cushioning. The Scarpa are supposed to be pretty minimalist and they feel like cushions in comparison.
Salomon Spreedcross?
In reply to steveej:
Speed cross are nice but high heel can be an issue? but nice shoe that can cope with a range of conditions.
I'm just wearing Scott Kinabalu. Nice trainers.
I'd shy away from X-talons. Great shoe but on rocky longer trail runs they get destroyed and your feet get hammered. I did a trail marathon in the mountains of Slovenia, the last 5 miles was a gradual descent down a stony trail by the end my feet felt really bruised.
Speed cross are nice but high heel can be an issue? but nice shoe that can cope with a range of conditions.
I'm just wearing Scott Kinabalu. Nice trainers.
I'd shy away from X-talons. Great shoe but on rocky longer trail runs they get destroyed and your feet get hammered. I did a trail marathon in the mountains of Slovenia, the last 5 miles was a gradual descent down a stony trail by the end my feet felt really bruised.
In reply to steveej:
Might Contain Nuts I assume? It'll be my first ultra too. If we get knackered towards the end we can always argue about the Matterhorn!!
On a serious note, I'm presently training on the Cotswold Way, lots of hills and running upto about 22 miles at the mo. Tomorrow is 24 miles, then 26 next weekend. Then a three week taper on the distance but stepping up the hill reps and doing some faster short runs. I can't see any point in going above marathon distance in training.
As for food, I tend not to have many gels, only had one on my marathon last year but am experimenting with Ella's Kitchen (don't laugh!) fruit purees and Mini Cheddars. I always use electrolytes in my water and glucose tablets can get you out of a flat spot too. Oh, and 9bars!
I too am a little scared, but I know I can walk the hills and pretty sure I can make the time up on the flats and downhill. I'm more scared that I'm going for the weekend staying overnight with a pair of party animals!! I'll never keep up with their drinking!!
Might Contain Nuts I assume? It'll be my first ultra too. If we get knackered towards the end we can always argue about the Matterhorn!!
On a serious note, I'm presently training on the Cotswold Way, lots of hills and running upto about 22 miles at the mo. Tomorrow is 24 miles, then 26 next weekend. Then a three week taper on the distance but stepping up the hill reps and doing some faster short runs. I can't see any point in going above marathon distance in training.
As for food, I tend not to have many gels, only had one on my marathon last year but am experimenting with Ella's Kitchen (don't laugh!) fruit purees and Mini Cheddars. I always use electrolytes in my water and glucose tablets can get you out of a flat spot too. Oh, and 9bars!
I too am a little scared, but I know I can walk the hills and pretty sure I can make the time up on the flats and downhill. I'm more scared that I'm going for the weekend staying overnight with a pair of party animals!! I'll never keep up with their drinking!!
Post edited at 23:36
In reply to steveej:
Well I've been out reccying the course over the last three saturdays.
Managed just over 43km with 1,800m of height gain in just shy of 6 hours last Saturday - about 2/3 of the course distance and height gain, but with some time wasted on navigation.
I have two weekends of training left. How much more should I be pushing it in terms of time spent on feet or distance in the next two Saturdays before the race.
Should I push to 30/35 miles this saturday? How much is too much?
Well I've been out reccying the course over the last three saturdays.
Managed just over 43km with 1,800m of height gain in just shy of 6 hours last Saturday - about 2/3 of the course distance and height gain, but with some time wasted on navigation.
I have two weekends of training left. How much more should I be pushing it in terms of time spent on feet or distance in the next two Saturdays before the race.
Should I push to 30/35 miles this saturday? How much is too much?
In reply to steveej:
I'm no expert but my long runs are all done, so I'm entering into taper madness and trying not to get too stir-crazy! I would say you have done enough now, pushing it to 30/35 miles is probably not needed and it will take you a while to recover. I'm sure Iain will have a different view but he's more experienced than me by far.
I did 20 yesterday with less than half of your height gain, but it was all concentrated hill reps in the middle of a long run. I'm hoping that my mountain experience will get me up the hills, albeit slowly, and my running speed will make up the time on the downhills and flats.
Food has become an important part of training, gels are going in the bin, they make me feel sick, but Nakd gingerbread bars are heaven and easily eaten whilst running.
Good luck on raceday, see you at the start line!
I'm no expert but my long runs are all done, so I'm entering into taper madness and trying not to get too stir-crazy! I would say you have done enough now, pushing it to 30/35 miles is probably not needed and it will take you a while to recover. I'm sure Iain will have a different view but he's more experienced than me by far.
I did 20 yesterday with less than half of your height gain, but it was all concentrated hill reps in the middle of a long run. I'm hoping that my mountain experience will get me up the hills, albeit slowly, and my running speed will make up the time on the downhills and flats.
Food has become an important part of training, gels are going in the bin, they make me feel sick, but Nakd gingerbread bars are heaven and easily eaten whilst running.
Good luck on raceday, see you at the start line!
In reply to steveej:
How far is the race off?
I'd probably call it a day there.. you've made gains dont push too much and get injured.
I'm now training for the world trail champs as I was called up late so had to condense my training cycle.
My last 4 consecutive weekends have been long runs of:
28 miles, 10,000 feet ascent
23 miles 5000 feet ascent
43 miles 7000 feet ascent
33 miles 11,000 feet ascent
Plus steady training midweek..
This a big gamble to get enough ascent in my legs as I live on the flat. I'm feeling very beaten up and sore and now with under 3 weeks to go will back right off. I'd normally only do 2 long runs a month and never over 30 but I've not ran 30+ for a while so wanted to test out some new gear as well.
How far is the race off?
I'd probably call it a day there.. you've made gains dont push too much and get injured.
I'm now training for the world trail champs as I was called up late so had to condense my training cycle.
My last 4 consecutive weekends have been long runs of:
28 miles, 10,000 feet ascent
23 miles 5000 feet ascent
43 miles 7000 feet ascent
33 miles 11,000 feet ascent
Plus steady training midweek..
This a big gamble to get enough ascent in my legs as I live on the flat. I'm feeling very beaten up and sore and now with under 3 weeks to go will back right off. I'd normally only do 2 long runs a month and never over 30 but I've not ran 30+ for a while so wanted to test out some new gear as well.
In reply to Roadrunner5:
The race is on the 30th May, so less than 3 weeks now. As I said, I'm no expert but I'm backing off now, I think Steveej has done plenty! Going to be a tough race.
Good luck at the Championships Iain.
The race is on the 30th May, so less than 3 weeks now. As I said, I'm no expert but I'm backing off now, I think Steveej has done plenty! Going to be a tough race.
Good luck at the Championships Iain.
In reply to liz j:
For a marathon your last longest run is normally 3 weeks out. Generally it takes 2 weeks for training to be felt so anything two weekends before is a risk with little actual gain. I'd not unless I was really trying to squeeze in missed training.
For a marathon your last longest run is normally 3 weeks out. Generally it takes 2 weeks for training to be felt so anything two weekends before is a risk with little actual gain. I'd not unless I was really trying to squeeze in missed training.
2
In reply to steveej:
I've done this particular ultra twice now. First time took about 13 hours and second time 11 hours 45 minutes. Both with really poor training. I suspect you'll do a lot better. I can give you some specific course advice if you want. It's a great race, well organised and you'll struggle to get lost. I basically walked both of them, at about an average speed of 4mph. You can loose a lot of time at the checkpoints if like me you spend a bit too much time faffing. I'm sure you'll enjoy it, it's a nice course. Hope the weather is good for you.
As others have said, you won't gain much by doing more training now, you'll just injure yourself potentially.
My race reports are here:
http://matthewmoore.org.uk/?p=379
http://matthewmoore.org.uk/?p=506
I've done this particular ultra twice now. First time took about 13 hours and second time 11 hours 45 minutes. Both with really poor training. I suspect you'll do a lot better. I can give you some specific course advice if you want. It's a great race, well organised and you'll struggle to get lost. I basically walked both of them, at about an average speed of 4mph. You can loose a lot of time at the checkpoints if like me you spend a bit too much time faffing. I'm sure you'll enjoy it, it's a nice course. Hope the weather is good for you.
As others have said, you won't gain much by doing more training now, you'll just injure yourself potentially.
My race reports are here:
http://matthewmoore.org.uk/?p=379
http://matthewmoore.org.uk/?p=506
In reply to mattrm:
Thanks for those race reports. As you might have guessed, I'm entered for this race too.
Having just run my last long run on monday, pre-race nerves are kicking in and your blogs have given me a little more confidence that my preparation has been ok. This will be my first ultra, but coming off the back of a hard trail marathon last october in a reasonable time, I think I have done enough training. I did 20 miles with 700m of climbing in less than 4 hours on monday, it was 25 the week before, and I've put in plenty of hills.
I'm hoping to make the 25 mile cut-off in 6 hours, which I have worked out will leave me enough time to walk the final 17 miles if I have to. I'm pretty good on the downhills, even with tired legs so am hoping it doesn't come to that! My main worry is going off too quickly, my comfortable pace is about 8.15min/mile but I know that is too fast for the distance so I will have to dis-engage my competitive side at the start! I do have the advantage of starting with a very experienced ultra runner, whether we finish together is another matter all together!
Thanks for those race reports. As you might have guessed, I'm entered for this race too.
Having just run my last long run on monday, pre-race nerves are kicking in and your blogs have given me a little more confidence that my preparation has been ok. This will be my first ultra, but coming off the back of a hard trail marathon last october in a reasonable time, I think I have done enough training. I did 20 miles with 700m of climbing in less than 4 hours on monday, it was 25 the week before, and I've put in plenty of hills.
I'm hoping to make the 25 mile cut-off in 6 hours, which I have worked out will leave me enough time to walk the final 17 miles if I have to. I'm pretty good on the downhills, even with tired legs so am hoping it doesn't come to that! My main worry is going off too quickly, my comfortable pace is about 8.15min/mile but I know that is too fast for the distance so I will have to dis-engage my competitive side at the start! I do have the advantage of starting with a very experienced ultra runner, whether we finish together is another matter all together!
In reply to mattrm:
Thanks for the link to your trip reports.
I've now ran all of the course with the exception of a short 10k ish loop the other side of the road from the storey arms. I will be doing that section this Saturday.
I know where all the big climbs and boggy sections are. The climb back up to Cribyn seems to be the Crux to me.
Thanks for the link to your trip reports.
I've now ran all of the course with the exception of a short 10k ish loop the other side of the road from the storey arms. I will be doing that section this Saturday.
I know where all the big climbs and boggy sections are. The climb back up to Cribyn seems to be the Crux to me.
In reply to steveej:
Do you know which way the loop across the road goes? I think I've worked it out that it's anti-clockwise, but there are no direction arrows on the course map at present. Think the 25 mile cut-off must be at the Storey Arms after that loop, hopefully I'm correct on that or my race plan has gone out of the window!
Do you know which way the loop across the road goes? I think I've worked it out that it's anti-clockwise, but there are no direction arrows on the course map at present. Think the 25 mile cut-off must be at the Storey Arms after that loop, hopefully I'm correct on that or my race plan has gone out of the window!
Post edited at 11:51
In reply to liz j:
Clockwise from Talybont
1) Climb Tor Y Foel and descend to CP1 (Big Climb) - 8km
2) Rolling tracks to Pontiscil Resevoir and CP2? - 11km
3) Up the boggy ground to the col at the top of the main tourist path just south of Corn du (CP3 and CP5 joint CP's) lots of height gain but not steep so you barely notice - 8km
4) Descend tourist path, along road to storey arms, cross over the road and do the loop on the other side of the road and back to storey arms CP4?
climb the second most popular path to PenYfan by traversing under Corn Du to CP5 joint CP (BIG Climb) - 13km I believe this is the cut off as its about 2/3rds of the way.
5) Over to PYF, down the ridge across the fields (CP6?) and up the Crybin (Big Climb) - 8km
6)down Cribyn to CP7 then small climb up towards FanYBig that pretty flat all the way to Carn Pica and steep descent down to the Talybont Resevoir. 13km ish.
Clockwise from Talybont
1) Climb Tor Y Foel and descend to CP1 (Big Climb) - 8km
2) Rolling tracks to Pontiscil Resevoir and CP2? - 11km
3) Up the boggy ground to the col at the top of the main tourist path just south of Corn du (CP3 and CP5 joint CP's) lots of height gain but not steep so you barely notice - 8km
4) Descend tourist path, along road to storey arms, cross over the road and do the loop on the other side of the road and back to storey arms CP4?
climb the second most popular path to PenYfan by traversing under Corn Du to CP5 joint CP (BIG Climb) - 13km I believe this is the cut off as its about 2/3rds of the way.
5) Over to PYF, down the ridge across the fields (CP6?) and up the Crybin (Big Climb) - 8km
6)down Cribyn to CP7 then small climb up towards FanYBig that pretty flat all the way to Carn Pica and steep descent down to the Talybont Resevoir. 13km ish.
Post edited at 16:06
In reply to steveej:
I think the main tricky sections/big climbs/descents in order:
1. Big Climb up to Tor Y Foel
2. Boggy section from Pontiscil to the col south of Corn Du.
3. descent down the main tourist path.
4. the climb back up to the col
5. the long descent north from PYF
6. the climb back up to Crybin
I have not reccied the loop on the other side of the road from storey arms but it looks like only a few hundred metres height gain so not too worried about that.
I think the main tricky sections/big climbs/descents in order:
1. Big Climb up to Tor Y Foel
2. Boggy section from Pontiscil to the col south of Corn Du.
3. descent down the main tourist path.
4. the climb back up to the col
5. the long descent north from PYF
6. the climb back up to Crybin
I have not reccied the loop on the other side of the road from storey arms but it looks like only a few hundred metres height gain so not too worried about that.
In reply to steveej:
Thanks for the info, I know the main routes on the tops, but the start to CP2 and the loop over the road is new ground for me. Starting to panic that I've not put enough training in, but I know that I should be ok. Lets just hope the weather is perfect. Best of luck!
Thanks for the info, I know the main routes on the tops, but the start to CP2 and the loop over the road is new ground for me. Starting to panic that I've not put enough training in, but I know that I should be ok. Lets just hope the weather is perfect. Best of luck!
In reply to steveej:
Hope you got on well yesterday Steveej, it was a brutal course. Can't believe the winning time of 6.30 hours! I came very close to dropping at 24 miles as was having serious stomach issues but a 45 min rest and I decided to carry on. Super pleased to have completed my first ultra over what must be one of the hardest 40 milers in the country. Hope your legs aren't too sore today!
Hope you got on well yesterday Steveej, it was a brutal course. Can't believe the winning time of 6.30 hours! I came very close to dropping at 24 miles as was having serious stomach issues but a 45 min rest and I decided to carry on. Super pleased to have completed my first ultra over what must be one of the hardest 40 milers in the country. Hope your legs aren't too sore today!
In reply to liz j:
Had a wobble at 23 miles with what felt like motion sickness. Felt very very sick on way back up to CP7. Was fine up until then.
Just happy to finish then
Had a wobble at 23 miles with what felt like motion sickness. Felt very very sick on way back up to CP7. Was fine up until then.
Just happy to finish then
In reply to steveej:
Well done, it was a hard route! At least the weather was good.
I walked along the track to CP 6 with a guy who wasn't feeling too good, was it you?? I was so sick on that track, horrid! I'm going back for the Sept one, addicted now!!
Well done, it was a hard route! At least the weather was good.
I walked along the track to CP 6 with a guy who wasn't feeling too good, was it you?? I was so sick on that track, horrid! I'm going back for the Sept one, addicted now!!
Post edited at 13:42
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