UKC

Hi,

I’ve read that lowering off when top roping is discouraged on Southern Sandstone. But I was hoping to take my children and I’m a bit dubious about them unclipping and throwing the rope down from the top of the crag. Can anyone tell me what other climbers do?

Thanks

M

In reply to T1bster:

Belay them from the top of the crag.

In reply to T1bster:

Don't belay them from the top of the crag, you're still going to have the rope rubbing over the rock.
I'd recommend having someone else there to help them untie etc.
Alternatively there used to be a route or two at the left end of Bowles with some higher belays. You could lower them back down on these without damaging the rock

In reply to deacondeacon:

My apologies, I didn't fully think that one through before I posted!

Ignore me, don't belay them from the top of the crag.

In reply to T1bster:

Just seen on Facebook, the BMC have made a video about looking after Southern Sandstone... May be worth a look.

Thanks I'll have a look.

In reply to deacondeacon:


I don't see that this will cause any more wear than bottom roping through a crab correctly lowered over the edge if he stands right on the edge so that he can see down (obviously belayed back to an anchor). In fact it will cause less rub as he can control where it runs from above.

This is exactly how we used to belay on SS back in the 1950s/60s see my profile pics - Shelter Slab.

In reply to Trangia:

I was thinking that. Or sitting right on the edge, where the carabiner should go for bottom-roping, their own legs could act in place of a piece of carpet to protect the rock.

In reply to Trangia:
As long as the op is belaying with static rope yes, with dynamic rope it would saw in to the rock unacceptably.

In reply to markh554:


What happens if you can't climb the route ?

In reply to Trangia:

Yes it's possible to belay right over the edge but not particularly comfortable or straightforward, particularly with the belay bolts so close to the edge of the crag. I'm sure you'll come back and tell me that it is easy and even a moron could do it but you've climbed on a sandstone a lot longer than me and I've seen poor rock damaging rope work just about every time I've been.

Also to the guy saying use your leg to protect the rock from the rope, you'll only do it once as it really hurts, especially if other parts of your anatomy get caught up in it.

Ummmm - you lower off :0

If the belay is set correctly over the edge so that the rope does not rub, it's not going to matter for a child walking down the wall steadily - just don't let them bounce down like wannabe SAS !

In reply to T1bster:
Once they are safe a long way back, you can walk up and sort it all out yourself

In reply to foxwood:

Its not just being lowered that is not allowed its abseiling. Abseiling and being lowered tend to wear to rock faster as foot work is less precises and feet tend to rub down the rock as you go, also loaded ropes sometimes suddenly move causing yet more erosion. Even if it doesn't erode the rock faster than climbing it in a specific instance, it's still twice the wear on a rock that is getting increasingly worn out!

In reply to foxwood:


Oh good, I was a bit worried that failure wasn’t an option !

The message “don’t lower off” seems a bit simplistic – won't the damage depend on the siting of the belay ring/length of sling/reinforcement of rock etc ? Are feet placements when lowering off less harmful than a desperate rope assisted ascent ? Who causes more erosion - climbers who go every week or the occasional family visit ?!

In reply to Jim Hamilton:

It is a bit simplistic, it's intended as a general rule to encourage good practice.
You shouldn't plan to be lowering off, but if you can't get up the route then it's better to lower off than scrabble about getting hauled up by the rope!
You should always rig the krab so that the rope won't rub the rock if it goes tight. On some routes this can mean that the krab is so low down that you are a decent way above it when topping out, which on a rounded sandstone mantle can be pretty scary. In these circumstances we will sometimes place another krab at the top that we'll clip when we reach it.
Ideally you shouldn't be attempting routes that you don't have a good chance of finishing, but we all have projects and for these we take extra care to ensure that lowering off the crux will not result in the rope rubbing - even if this makes the top out scary.

In reply to Jim Hamilton:

dunno, i didnt watch it