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Just a heads up, the big chock stone at the top of the descent behind Manchester Buttress (HS 4b) is dangerously loose. I've used this descent thousands of times and it's never moved before? I think it's time it was shifted?
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In reply to maybe_si:
It has moved for years and years if you rock it by its bottom edge.
Leave it alone,
Chris
It has moved for years and years if you rock it by its bottom edge.
Leave it alone,
Chris
7
In reply to Chris Craggs:
I'd hate to see it go, it's a great and useful feature, as I said, I can't count the amount of times I've used it... but descending today I was shocked by how much it now moves! It's definitely considerably worse than before.
I'd hate to see it go, it's a great and useful feature, as I said, I can't count the amount of times I've used it... but descending today I was shocked by how much it now moves! It's definitely considerably worse than before.
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In reply to maybe_si:
I have been rocking it (grab the lowest point and wobble it) for at least 20 years, if you stand back in the gully and look at it, the chock looks well wedged as the walls narrow below it,
Chris
I have been rocking it (grab the lowest point and wobble it) for at least 20 years, if you stand back in the gully and look at it, the chock looks well wedged as the walls narrow below it,
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
I really hope you are right, I'm more than willing to accept that I have simply not noticed it before? I just thought I'd mention it because I'm convinced it has got worse? Go and have a look at some point soon, if I am just being a muppet then please let me know!!
Cheers
I really hope you are right, I'm more than willing to accept that I have simply not noticed it before? I just thought I'd mention it because I'm convinced it has got worse? Go and have a look at some point soon, if I am just being a muppet then please let me know!!
Cheers
In reply to maybe_si:
Please, no one but the most qualified should think about shifting it.
Let Chris and the like take a look....
I'm sure it's fine anyway.
Please, no one but the most qualified should think about shifting it.
Let Chris and the like take a look....
I'm sure it's fine anyway.
1
In reply to Le Chevalier Mal Fet:
No of course not...just wanted trying to warn off the eager young folk that might take it upon themselves to trundle it needlessly.
No of course not...just wanted trying to warn off the eager young folk that might take it upon themselves to trundle it needlessly.
In reply to jimjimjim:
Indeed - like with the sadly deceased block on Moyer's Buttress.
Chris
> No of course not...just wanted trying to warn off the eager young folk that might take it upon themselves to trundle it needlessly.
Indeed - like with the sadly deceased block on Moyer's Buttress.
Chris
4
In reply to maybe_si:
Yeah, it didn't rock on me for years then once it did, freaked me out for sure. Was pretty solid when I was there Wednesday evening, please do not attempt to dislodge it or remove it.
Yeah, it didn't rock on me for years then once it did, freaked me out for sure. Was pretty solid when I was there Wednesday evening, please do not attempt to dislodge it or remove it.
In reply to maybe_si:
It did look like a fair bit of extra erosion of some form was apparent on the left hand side (underneath) looking from below. Maybe some scrote has been up there booting it around or something?
It did look like a fair bit of extra erosion of some form was apparent on the left hand side (underneath) looking from below. Maybe some scrote has been up there booting it around or something?
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Did it ever come to light who/why did it?
> Indeed - like with the sadly deceased block on Moyer's Buttress.
> Chris
Did it ever come to light who/why did it?
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In reply to jimjimjim:
What a load of rubbish! !!!!! . Climber's are capable of making the right decisions. If someone spots a dangerous rock MAKE IT SAVE don't leave it till it hurts /kills someone.
What a load of rubbish! !!!!! . Climber's are capable of making the right decisions. If someone spots a dangerous rock MAKE IT SAVE don't leave it till it hurts /kills someone.
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In reply to jagster:
Climbers (no apostrophe) come in all different forms mate. All I'm saying is it makes sense for someone who knows a bit more about things than your average Stanage punter to make a judgement on if it needs dealing with. If every climber took it upon themselves to rid any loose bit of rock they came across there'd be a lot of rubble at the bottom of the crags.
Climbers (no apostrophe) come in all different forms mate. All I'm saying is it makes sense for someone who knows a bit more about things than your average Stanage punter to make a judgement on if it needs dealing with. If every climber took it upon themselves to rid any loose bit of rock they came across there'd be a lot of rubble at the bottom of the crags.
In reply to jimjimjim:
I understand your point. However I would hate to have left a boulder loose just because i was deemed as not being experienced enough even though I have 15 year's experience. Personally I think climbers have a duty of care if they notice unsafe rocks. In my opinion this should be acted upon quickly as you don't know when the next group of climbers would use it. I would hope that someone would do the same for me.
I understand your point. However I would hate to have left a boulder loose just because i was deemed as not being experienced enough even though I have 15 year's experience. Personally I think climbers have a duty of care if they notice unsafe rocks. In my opinion this should be acted upon quickly as you don't know when the next group of climbers would use it. I would hope that someone would do the same for me.
In reply to jagster:
If somebody can place a nut they can probably work out whether a rock could become detached.
If somebody can place a nut they can probably work out whether a rock could become detached.
In reply to all:
The chockstone is visible in the top left of this photo, jammed in the narrowing chimney:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=176068
Chris
The chockstone is visible in the top left of this photo, jammed in the narrowing chimney:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=176068
Chris
In reply to jagster:
Aren't most rocks unsafe in one way or another?
> Personally I think climbers have a duty of care if they notice unsafe rocks.
Aren't most rocks unsafe in one way or another?
1
1
1
In reply to jagster:
How do you cope with Peak Limestone (which can be lethally loose ... I made the mistake of climbing of what turned out to be an unprotecable route on Ossams crag a few years back where not a single hold was reliable) or grit crags like Millstone with intrinsically unstable exits.... all of which that can change character year to year?
How do you cope with Peak Limestone (which can be lethally loose ... I made the mistake of climbing of what turned out to be an unprotecable route on Ossams crag a few years back where not a single hold was reliable) or grit crags like Millstone with intrinsically unstable exits.... all of which that can change character year to year?
1
In reply to Offwidth:
I'm not talking about crags that are known to be unstable. These crags should be climbed with the knowledge of the risk. We're talking about the routes that are thought to be safe and have been for years, but have become loose.
I'm not talking about crags that are known to be unstable. These crags should be climbed with the knowledge of the risk. We're talking about the routes that are thought to be safe and have been for years, but have become loose.
In reply to maybe_si:
I had a look today and it seems to me like it's always been. Think it would take quite some effort to actually get it out.
My opinion is leave it be.
People should know that rock climbing is a dangerous activity bla bla bla
I had a look today and it seems to me like it's always been. Think it would take quite some effort to actually get it out.
My opinion is leave it be.
People should know that rock climbing is a dangerous activity bla bla bla
3
In reply to jagster:
Its always been that way as long as I can remember.
How do you advertise the risk... Rockfax have a symbol but its not consistently applied and some pretty much black spot routes get the same indication as something with no more risk than pretty much the safest climb.
Its always been that way as long as I can remember.
How do you advertise the risk... Rockfax have a symbol but its not consistently applied and some pretty much black spot routes get the same indication as something with no more risk than pretty much the safest climb.
In reply to Offwidth:
We don't use any symbols on descent routes and 'Black Spot' climbs are E4 and above - the colour of the spot is the grade band and is nothing to do with the safety or otherwise of the climb,
Chris
> Its always been that way as long as I can remember.
> How do you advertise the risk... Rockfax have a symbol but its not consistently applied and some pretty much black spot routes get the same indication as something with no more risk than pretty much the safest climb.
We don't use any symbols on descent routes and 'Black Spot' climbs are E4 and above - the colour of the spot is the grade band and is nothing to do with the safety or otherwise of the climb,
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
"black spot" is a generic term and it appears to be being used in that context.
"black spot" is a generic term and it appears to be being used in that context.
1
In reply to Chris Craggs:
You know exactly what a black spot route means in most guidebooks, some routes in your guides have come close to the level of risk attached to this designation (usually limestone, through freeze-thaw action) and your choice of 'black spot' for extremes (you could have used a dark hue or not refer to them as spots) adds extra confusion to the subject given the prior existing meaning and the high risk that was supposed to convey.
You know exactly what a black spot route means in most guidebooks, some routes in your guides have come close to the level of risk attached to this designation (usually limestone, through freeze-thaw action) and your choice of 'black spot' for extremes (you could have used a dark hue or not refer to them as spots) adds extra confusion to the subject given the prior existing meaning and the high risk that was supposed to convey.
In reply to Offwidth:
Do you really believe that GREEN > ORANGE > RED > BLACK "adds extra confusion"?
Chris
> your choice of 'black spot' for extremes (you could have used a dark hue or not refer to them as spots) adds extra confusion to the subject given the prior existing meaning and the high risk that was supposed to convey.
Do you really believe that GREEN > ORANGE > RED > BLACK "adds extra confusion"?
Chris
In reply to maybe_si:
At the request of some folk at the BMC meet I went up and had a look tonight. A careful inspection showed very little rock in contact on the pointed side, and a widening in the chimney wall immediately below - despite how it looks from a distance it is definitely not a 'good placement'. I'm not one for making safe normally but after a few wiggles it did seem clear it was deteriorating rapidly. A few more wiggles and it suddenly dropped ten feet where it is now more secure. At a guess I maybe accelerated it by fifty descents or so, I reckon it would have gone of its own accord within a month or two.
At the request of some folk at the BMC meet I went up and had a look tonight. A careful inspection showed very little rock in contact on the pointed side, and a widening in the chimney wall immediately below - despite how it looks from a distance it is definitely not a 'good placement'. I'm not one for making safe normally but after a few wiggles it did seem clear it was deteriorating rapidly. A few more wiggles and it suddenly dropped ten feet where it is now more secure. At a guess I maybe accelerated it by fifty descents or so, I reckon it would have gone of its own accord within a month or two.
Post edited at 23:28
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In reply to jagster:
A duty of care has a pretty specific legal meaning that you would not want to apply to people who are going out cragging. Naturally there is a wish to remove or at least raise awareness of a potential risk. Anyhow, it sounds like the matter is closed now. Cheers Adam.
> Personally I think climbers have a duty of care if they notice unsafe rocks.
A duty of care has a pretty specific legal meaning that you would not want to apply to people who are going out cragging. Naturally there is a wish to remove or at least raise awareness of a potential risk. Anyhow, it sounds like the matter is closed now. Cheers Adam.
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In reply to Adam Long:
Glad to see I was not completely incompetent, but sorry to see that it has gone/changed? Ah well, these things happen, thanks for going up and checking it out
Glad to see I was not completely incompetent, but sorry to see that it has gone/changed? Ah well, these things happen, thanks for going up and checking it out
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1
In reply to maybe_si:
Photo here: https://twitter.com/adam_jb_long/status/607098231823179776
The block lost a corner on landing but overall I was pleased how little mess there was. Yes, good spot by the OP, could have been nasty!
Photo here: https://twitter.com/adam_jb_long/status/607098231823179776
The block lost a corner on landing but overall I was pleased how little mess there was. Yes, good spot by the OP, could have been nasty!
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In reply to Adam Long:
Yes, thanks indeed. I changed my mind at the meeting as people there said although it had moved for some time it was now moving a lot more.
Yes, thanks indeed. I changed my mind at the meeting as people there said although it had moved for some time it was now moving a lot more.
In reply to Adam Long:
Presumably the loss has made the descent a bit trickier/more exposed?
Worryingly I used step onto the chock then slide down it to access the chimney!
Chris
Presumably the loss has made the descent a bit trickier/more exposed?
Worryingly I used step onto the chock then slide down it to access the chimney!
Chris
In reply to Adam Long:
Excellent result. Thanks to the OP for the heads up, and props to Adam for sensitively sorting it out.
I always thought dynamite would have been OTT...
Neil
Excellent result. Thanks to the OP for the heads up, and props to Adam for sensitively sorting it out.
I always thought dynamite would have been OTT...
Neil
1
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Maybe that explains how it worked loose...
> Worryingly I used step onto the chock then slide down it to access the chimney!
Maybe that explains how it worked loose...
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Well I doubtless did my bit. The fact that I always used to wobble it from below just to 'check' probably had more of an effect though!
Chris
> Maybe that explains how it worked loose...
Well I doubtless did my bit. The fact that I always used to wobble it from below just to 'check' probably had more of an effect though!
Chris
1
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