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Ok, so I would like to redo one of our bathrooms. I am no great DIY expert, but I have managed to tile a wall a wee while ago...that's about it.
I wanted to get a professional plumber to do it, but I have contacted several who were recommended by friends and despite feigning interest, none ever actually turned up at appointments. I had another bathroom done by one of those big companies five years ago, but the spiralling out of control cost has put me off. It was absolutely ridiculous and looked ok, but not that great. So, is it possible for a lay-person to do this by herself?
What are the best resources? Or am I bonkers trying to attempt this?
I wanted to get a professional plumber to do it, but I have contacted several who were recommended by friends and despite feigning interest, none ever actually turned up at appointments. I had another bathroom done by one of those big companies five years ago, but the spiralling out of control cost has put me off. It was absolutely ridiculous and looked ok, but not that great. So, is it possible for a lay-person to do this by herself?
What are the best resources? Or am I bonkers trying to attempt this?
In reply to Heike:
Tiling is probably the most skilled job in doing a new bathroom, the plumbing is generally pretty straight forward.
Tiling is probably the most skilled job in doing a new bathroom, the plumbing is generally pretty straight forward.
2
In reply to Heike:
You don't know how hard it will be until you work out your design.
Then you can modify the design to fit your skills.
If it involves a lot of tiling then do the plumbing and get a tiler in maybe, because that's the 'finish' ie the job will look good or bad depending on the skill of the person doing the visible finishing, not the hidden plumbing.
You don't know how hard it will be until you work out your design.
Then you can modify the design to fit your skills.
If it involves a lot of tiling then do the plumbing and get a tiler in maybe, because that's the 'finish' ie the job will look good or bad depending on the skill of the person doing the visible finishing, not the hidden plumbing.
1
In reply to Heike:
I've done three now. It was surprisingly straight forward and quite enjoyable. Make sure you have a good radio.
I've done three now. It was surprisingly straight forward and quite enjoyable. Make sure you have a good radio.
2
In reply to winhill:
I managed to tile the whole walls above the bath and it looked quite reasonable, but I take it floor tiling is a bit more tricky...?
I managed to tile the whole walls above the bath and it looked quite reasonable, but I take it floor tiling is a bit more tricky...?
Post edited at 15:02
In reply to gribble:
So, what would you think it might cost? Roughly, assuming, good quality stuff, but nothing too fancy...
Another thing, it is a very small bathroom, just about fits a bath, a toilet and basin and you have to shelf round the door to get in.
So, what would you think it might cost? Roughly, assuming, good quality stuff, but nothing too fancy...
Another thing, it is a very small bathroom, just about fits a bath, a toilet and basin and you have to shelf round the door to get in.
Post edited at 15:03
In reply to Heike:
Just over £150. You can't go far wrong with a Roberts DAB retro one like this, although I prefer the racing green version:
http://www.selfridges.com/en/roberts-revival-dab-radio_761-10044-ROBRD60PLE...
> So, what would you think it might cost? Roughly, assuming, good quality stuff, but nothing too fancy...
Just over £150. You can't go far wrong with a Roberts DAB retro one like this, although I prefer the racing green version:
http://www.selfridges.com/en/roberts-revival-dab-radio_761-10044-ROBRD60PLE...
4
In reply to Heike:
That's a good 'piece of string' question! It depends on what you want - underfloor heating, gold plated taps, cheap or very flashy shower, size of the bathroom, swanky lighting, etc etc. It's definitely worth looking an many websites for available materials (and price), then having a clear idea what you want before starting. With a good plan, the job becomes easy.
That's a good 'piece of string' question! It depends on what you want - underfloor heating, gold plated taps, cheap or very flashy shower, size of the bathroom, swanky lighting, etc etc. It's definitely worth looking an many websites for available materials (and price), then having a clear idea what you want before starting. With a good plan, the job becomes easy.
In reply to Heike:
Definitely and you want to know it's not going to leak. But if it's upstairs and on wood there are lots of companies with competing products, telling you what to do.
Also if you have any electrical work you need an electrician really, bonding issues etc. Are you having a shower? And an extractor?
Like for like is easy.
> I managed to tile the whole walls above the bath and it looked quite reasonable, but I take it floor tiling is a bit more tricky...?
Definitely and you want to know it's not going to leak. But if it's upstairs and on wood there are lots of companies with competing products, telling you what to do.
Also if you have any electrical work you need an electrician really, bonding issues etc. Are you having a shower? And an extractor?
Like for like is easy.
In reply to Heike:
Floor tiles are thicker than wall tiles so harder to cut. I did the bathroom in our last house and bought a small table saw tile cutter for about £40 from Screwfix - paid for itself in that one job with no wasted tiles Other than that there's no real difference in the two: just make sure that the surface is level and clean as you would with a wall.
Most building work is about preparation as much as actually doing the job itself and just remember the "measure twice, cut once" mantra. The difficulty with tiling comes when the walls aren't parallel and you have to decide which one to line the tiling up against though in our current house we cheated and put the kitchen flooring in on the diagonal as there's 500mm difference in the width between either end!
Floor tiles are thicker than wall tiles so harder to cut. I did the bathroom in our last house and bought a small table saw tile cutter for about £40 from Screwfix - paid for itself in that one job with no wasted tiles Other than that there's no real difference in the two: just make sure that the surface is level and clean as you would with a wall.
Most building work is about preparation as much as actually doing the job itself and just remember the "measure twice, cut once" mantra. The difficulty with tiling comes when the walls aren't parallel and you have to decide which one to line the tiling up against though in our current house we cheated and put the kitchen flooring in on the diagonal as there's 500mm difference in the width between either end!
1
In reply to Heike:
Plumbing for a bathroom is actually quite easy in most cases. These days you have push fit pipes and connectors, so you just get some lengths of pipe, and a few angles and T connectors and just click it all together as required. No soldering or cutting required (the plastic pipes are just snipped with a special tool) I did one of mine my self with no prior training and it went fine.
The stuff that helps to have a bit of skill with is working with stuff you'll see, like for example grouting tiles and your sealing around the bath / shower etc, if it's not neat it can look horrid and maybe let water get behind things.
But to save money you can do most of the easy stuff yourself and get a professional in to do the fancy stuff, although it's a balance because if the job is too small they even won't bother or charge you over the odds.
Plumbing for a bathroom is actually quite easy in most cases. These days you have push fit pipes and connectors, so you just get some lengths of pipe, and a few angles and T connectors and just click it all together as required. No soldering or cutting required (the plastic pipes are just snipped with a special tool) I did one of mine my self with no prior training and it went fine.
The stuff that helps to have a bit of skill with is working with stuff you'll see, like for example grouting tiles and your sealing around the bath / shower etc, if it's not neat it can look horrid and maybe let water get behind things.
But to save money you can do most of the easy stuff yourself and get a professional in to do the fancy stuff, although it's a balance because if the job is too small they even won't bother or charge you over the odds.
Post edited at 15:28
In reply to Heike:
It depends how much you want to move stuff around, how it's put together already and what the state of the building is under the decorative finishes. Some bits/designs are going to be a fair bit harder and more involved to get right than others. If you're re-tiling good plaster, and fitting the same size/type of suite or something very similar it's a fairly straightforward job especially if it's a second bathroom and you can afford to take your time.
I'm in the middle of doing mine at the moment, and while it's not rocket science by any stretch there can be a fair investment needed in tools and a big investment in time. That said, mine was a proper mess with two rooms needing knocking together and every single bit requiring attention from leaking drains outside, new soil stack, leaks inside, missing brickwork behind previous bodges, failed plaster, new ceiling, fan, insulation, new window reveals and sills, shower mixer valve buried in block walls, countertop and cabinet work, wall hung bog, new partition wall and door and cupboard plus various bits of damp/damage in the floor that needed sorting. Plus of course a skip.
How much it'll cost really depends on what you want. Best bet is to find parts/ideas you like, measure then sketch it up, work out what services need moving and how involved that'll be, do your research where you're not sure what material and work's involved (eg prepping a suspended floor for tiles). You'll probably revise the plan as you go to make things easier/cheaper until you have an estimate you can live with. If you can accumulate bits gradually take your time to shop around, buy it in sales, search ebay and online stores for deals. My small room: thermostatic shower over bath, wall hung bog, sink on a cabinet, mostly tiled walls and (free) refurbished wood floor is probably coming in at about £1.5k for materials including the drains/repairs etc and having shopped around quite a bit for nice stuff, never just the cheapest but certainly nothing extravagant. It'll be a bit more by the time it's heated and decorated.
jk
It depends how much you want to move stuff around, how it's put together already and what the state of the building is under the decorative finishes. Some bits/designs are going to be a fair bit harder and more involved to get right than others. If you're re-tiling good plaster, and fitting the same size/type of suite or something very similar it's a fairly straightforward job especially if it's a second bathroom and you can afford to take your time.
I'm in the middle of doing mine at the moment, and while it's not rocket science by any stretch there can be a fair investment needed in tools and a big investment in time. That said, mine was a proper mess with two rooms needing knocking together and every single bit requiring attention from leaking drains outside, new soil stack, leaks inside, missing brickwork behind previous bodges, failed plaster, new ceiling, fan, insulation, new window reveals and sills, shower mixer valve buried in block walls, countertop and cabinet work, wall hung bog, new partition wall and door and cupboard plus various bits of damp/damage in the floor that needed sorting. Plus of course a skip.
How much it'll cost really depends on what you want. Best bet is to find parts/ideas you like, measure then sketch it up, work out what services need moving and how involved that'll be, do your research where you're not sure what material and work's involved (eg prepping a suspended floor for tiles). You'll probably revise the plan as you go to make things easier/cheaper until you have an estimate you can live with. If you can accumulate bits gradually take your time to shop around, buy it in sales, search ebay and online stores for deals. My small room: thermostatic shower over bath, wall hung bog, sink on a cabinet, mostly tiled walls and (free) refurbished wood floor is probably coming in at about £1.5k for materials including the drains/repairs etc and having shopped around quite a bit for nice stuff, never just the cheapest but certainly nothing extravagant. It'll be a bit more by the time it's heated and decorated.
jk
In reply to winhill:
No extractor, currently we have a shower working of the bath, but I was wondering about an electric shower. I would obviously get an electrician for that. Yes, it's upstairs and on wood.
No extractor, currently we have a shower working of the bath, but I was wondering about an electric shower. I would obviously get an electrician for that. Yes, it's upstairs and on wood.
In reply to Heike:
I did a bathroom but it was just replacing old for new so all the plumbing was in place. I used compression fittings and flexi-hose rather than doing "real" plumbing. It was the tiling that was an arse. I borrowed a tile cutter from a mate but it still took an absolute age. Having fitted a bathroom and fitted a kitchen in my life I feel I have the tick in both camps and will be more than happy to pay the going rate in the future to have someone else sweat their blood... which they won't because a) they will know what they are doing and b) they will have the correct tools for the job!
Good luck!
I did a bathroom but it was just replacing old for new so all the plumbing was in place. I used compression fittings and flexi-hose rather than doing "real" plumbing. It was the tiling that was an arse. I borrowed a tile cutter from a mate but it still took an absolute age. Having fitted a bathroom and fitted a kitchen in my life I feel I have the tick in both camps and will be more than happy to pay the going rate in the future to have someone else sweat their blood... which they won't because a) they will know what they are doing and b) they will have the correct tools for the job!
Good luck!
2
In reply to jkarran:
Thank you, lots of good advice! Yeah, I reckon I would need quite a few bits of equipment. Also lots of time...We basically want to you use a smaller suite. The bathroom is tiny, but they have used a huge suite, hence no space.
I was just absolutely aghast at the cost of the last bathroom that I thought, maybe I could do that cheaper with a bit of help from electrician, maybe plumber and I like a good challenge!!
Thank you, lots of good advice! Yeah, I reckon I would need quite a few bits of equipment. Also lots of time...We basically want to you use a smaller suite. The bathroom is tiny, but they have used a huge suite, hence no space.
I was just absolutely aghast at the cost of the last bathroom that I thought, maybe I could do that cheaper with a bit of help from electrician, maybe plumber and I like a good challenge!!
In reply to ByEek:
Hahaha, I know what you mean. I might just go down this route after all IF I can't find anyone, actually I would have (cos let's face it, I'd rather go climbing), but the last two plumbers have let me down, so I am getting a bit irate that nobody wants my business and that's why I have started thinking of doing it myself!
Hahaha, I know what you mean. I might just go down this route after all IF I can't find anyone, actually I would have (cos let's face it, I'd rather go climbing), but the last two plumbers have let me down, so I am getting a bit irate that nobody wants my business and that's why I have started thinking of doing it myself!
In reply to gribble:
Oh yeah, gold-plated taps sounds good and champagne on tap I was thinking ...No, but seriously, I know it could be anything. I think underfloor heating would be great (we do live in Scotland), otherwise just a basic, clean looking suite, white tiles (maybe a border in the middle if I can stretch to that, but looking at the guy who did the other bathroom that looked the most tricky part.) and a shower. If I would have a plumber I would have said a concealed cistern, but I think that looks more skilful to do, so I wouldn't attempt that myself.
> That's a good 'piece of string' question! It depends on what you want - underfloor heating, gold plated taps, cheap or very flashy shower, size of the bathroom, swanky lighting, etc etc. It's definitely worth looking an many websites for available materials (and price), then having a clear idea what you want before starting. With a good plan, the job becomes easy.
Oh yeah, gold-plated taps sounds good and champagne on tap I was thinking ...No, but seriously, I know it could be anything. I think underfloor heating would be great (we do live in Scotland), otherwise just a basic, clean looking suite, white tiles (maybe a border in the middle if I can stretch to that, but looking at the guy who did the other bathroom that looked the most tricky part.) and a shower. If I would have a plumber I would have said a concealed cistern, but I think that looks more skilful to do, so I wouldn't attempt that myself.
In reply to Bob:
Cheers, Bob. I borrowed a table cutter from a friend last time when I did the tiling around the bath. First me and my pal who was instructing me tried to do it with a hand cutter, it didn't work very let's say. The table cutter worked a treat. What my friend taught me was too measure everything well (what you said about preparation) and even to number the tiles (cause there can be slightly variation) to put up. I have to say it worked a treat, still really pleased with it.
Cheers, Bob. I borrowed a table cutter from a friend last time when I did the tiling around the bath. First me and my pal who was instructing me tried to do it with a hand cutter, it didn't work very let's say. The table cutter worked a treat. What my friend taught me was too measure everything well (what you said about preparation) and even to number the tiles (cause there can be slightly variation) to put up. I have to say it worked a treat, still really pleased with it.
In reply to Heike:
A concealed cistern is easy if you've got a suitable stud wall or cabinet to hide it in and the toilet sits on the floor reducing the structural hassles. If it's wall hung then get a complete set with bog, cistern and frame, I didn't because I'm cheap/a fool. Hiding the cistern in the wall gives you a potentially useful space saving in a small room but it's not the cheapest/easiest option and could prove a bit of a maintenance worry especially if it ends up fully tiled in.
jk
A concealed cistern is easy if you've got a suitable stud wall or cabinet to hide it in and the toilet sits on the floor reducing the structural hassles. If it's wall hung then get a complete set with bog, cistern and frame, I didn't because I'm cheap/a fool. Hiding the cistern in the wall gives you a potentially useful space saving in a small room but it's not the cheapest/easiest option and could prove a bit of a maintenance worry especially if it ends up fully tiled in.
jk
Post edited at 16:24
In reply to Heike:
Speaking to my plumber recently he commented on a £7k bathroom, the house owners of which he was finishing it for were giving him no end of grief, but for alot of customers £1-2K is the budget all in. There again, there was the recent £26k bathroom!!
Costs are so variable and depend on lots of things. I got my plumber to change taps, etc, recently and he said beforehand I should just buy them myself online as it was cheaper for me to do so. One example tap he gave was selling for about £75 online and he said that was cheaper than he could source it for through the plumbing merchants he dealt with (over £100). When I actually went online to buy a quick google came up with the same tap for £38.62 incl VAT and delivery from a "proper" UK bathroom company (delivered free as it was part of a larger order otherwise would have been IIRC £5.95).
If buying yourself, watch out for the VAT. Most suppliers dealing mainly with trade have pre VAT prices and this can catch out the DIYer. Also, if buying in person from trade sources don't just pay the first price if face to face as this is usually the public price, but ask for discount (or best price is the way I do it). I usually end up with some level of "discount" and often it is the trade price for cash - saves them account raising costs etc. Online the price is the price as you will not have trade access. If going to merchants let them know you are doing a larger job and will need more items as they want repeat business but again watch out that the price is usually pre VAT before you agree.
If you live not that far from Fife and still looking for a plumber I could pass on the details of mine who travels to Edinburgh/Stirling etc - been reliable for quoting, appointments, and he does not bill you until the work is fully completed. Maybe not the cheapest, but depends on how much you value honesty and reliability - you get what you pay for!
> So, what would you think it might cost?
Speaking to my plumber recently he commented on a £7k bathroom, the house owners of which he was finishing it for were giving him no end of grief, but for alot of customers £1-2K is the budget all in. There again, there was the recent £26k bathroom!!
Costs are so variable and depend on lots of things. I got my plumber to change taps, etc, recently and he said beforehand I should just buy them myself online as it was cheaper for me to do so. One example tap he gave was selling for about £75 online and he said that was cheaper than he could source it for through the plumbing merchants he dealt with (over £100). When I actually went online to buy a quick google came up with the same tap for £38.62 incl VAT and delivery from a "proper" UK bathroom company (delivered free as it was part of a larger order otherwise would have been IIRC £5.95).
If buying yourself, watch out for the VAT. Most suppliers dealing mainly with trade have pre VAT prices and this can catch out the DIYer. Also, if buying in person from trade sources don't just pay the first price if face to face as this is usually the public price, but ask for discount (or best price is the way I do it). I usually end up with some level of "discount" and often it is the trade price for cash - saves them account raising costs etc. Online the price is the price as you will not have trade access. If going to merchants let them know you are doing a larger job and will need more items as they want repeat business but again watch out that the price is usually pre VAT before you agree.
If you live not that far from Fife and still looking for a plumber I could pass on the details of mine who travels to Edinburgh/Stirling etc - been reliable for quoting, appointments, and he does not bill you until the work is fully completed. Maybe not the cheapest, but depends on how much you value honesty and reliability - you get what you pay for!
1
In reply to Climbing Pieman:
If you have a reliable plumber, yes please, pass the the details on, as I say, I was looking for one, but couldn't find any to actually turn up, hence my thought of doing it myself!
The last one ended up being 7000 pounds (as I say through a fairly big company) and I was totally aghast, when we bought the house we thought we could do both of the bathrooms for that, but the cost added up whilst we were doing it and then there was no money left for the second one. It is quite nice, but not such good quality, now after 5 years, it is starting to fall apart a bit, compared with parents' bathroom which has lasted about 30 years and still looks great (apart from the design
If you have a reliable plumber, yes please, pass the the details on, as I say, I was looking for one, but couldn't find any to actually turn up, hence my thought of doing it myself!
The last one ended up being 7000 pounds (as I say through a fairly big company) and I was totally aghast, when we bought the house we thought we could do both of the bathrooms for that, but the cost added up whilst we were doing it and then there was no money left for the second one. It is quite nice, but not such good quality, now after 5 years, it is starting to fall apart a bit, compared with parents' bathroom which has lasted about 30 years and still looks great (apart from the design
Post edited at 16:40
In reply to Heike:
Many plumbers will shy away from a simple bathroom project because they know it's impossible to cost in the time spent travelling, setting up and acquiring all the kit; nobody wants to pay them for that time.
Many plumbers will shy away from a simple bathroom project because they know it's impossible to cost in the time spent travelling, setting up and acquiring all the kit; nobody wants to pay them for that time.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Would you not have the tools of the trade if you were doing it all the time?
Would you not have the tools of the trade if you were doing it all the time?
In reply to Heike:
I've been happy, nice tidy work, always came when he said, and I know that he has done work on at least five houses in my Estate, all word of mouth recommendations.
John Taggerty, http://www.tphplumbingandheating.co.uk/ . When I spoke to him last Friday he did say he was going to be doing sub contract work for BG starting in about three weeks so don't know how his availability will be affected by that, and also he looks after his existing customers first from what I see.
Hope it works out if you choose him.
I've been happy, nice tidy work, always came when he said, and I know that he has done work on at least five houses in my Estate, all word of mouth recommendations.
John Taggerty, http://www.tphplumbingandheating.co.uk/ . When I spoke to him last Friday he did say he was going to be doing sub contract work for BG starting in about three weeks so don't know how his availability will be affected by that, and also he looks after his existing customers first from what I see.
Hope it works out if you choose him.
1
In reply to Heike:
If you're replacing the suite in much the same place, it's ok. I did the bathroom in my old house and it looked fantastic - took me 2 years, though, as I'm a pedant about some things and still needed to have a life!
Part of the reason it took so long was repairing water damage to wall and floor revealed once the old bath was out. I also wanted to box in the loo cistern and put a sink cabinet in for storage. Never underestimate the time it takes to do tiling - cutting them to size takes ages.
Helps a lot if your Dad is local and also pretty handy with plumbing and other things and your sister lives round the corner and you can use her shower
As someone else said, do the leg work of replacing the suite and then pay a tiler to do that bit - that's what my sister and parents did.
And DON'T drop your screwdriver in the brand new bath when you're putting the shower back in Only a small chip, but line it with cardboard just in case...
If you're replacing the suite in much the same place, it's ok. I did the bathroom in my old house and it looked fantastic - took me 2 years, though, as I'm a pedant about some things and still needed to have a life!
Part of the reason it took so long was repairing water damage to wall and floor revealed once the old bath was out. I also wanted to box in the loo cistern and put a sink cabinet in for storage. Never underestimate the time it takes to do tiling - cutting them to size takes ages.
Helps a lot if your Dad is local and also pretty handy with plumbing and other things and your sister lives round the corner and you can use her shower
As someone else said, do the leg work of replacing the suite and then pay a tiler to do that bit - that's what my sister and parents did.
And DON'T drop your screwdriver in the brand new bath when you're putting the shower back in Only a small chip, but line it with cardboard just in case...
In reply to Heike:
Just thought I'd have a breather from fitting an en-suite to check out the forums and there is a discussion on bathrooms going on! Lots of good advice already, so only a couple of points...
A bathroom refit must include an extractor to meet regulations. They are easy to fit and can run off the light switching, but it does depend on which electrical zone is being used and the type of extractor. It must include a three pole isolation switch at some point on the circuit. Technically, a bathroom refit is notifiable to building control, though like for like replacements are not usually brought to their attention.
Floor tiling is as easy as the walls as long as you take your time. Larger format tiles are harder to level over big areas, but I think you said it was small. In any case, make sure you tiles are on a very solid surface - if the house is old, it can be worth putting additional stiffeners between the joists - either noggins at right angles or sisters screwed to the existing joints to double them up. Then fix 18mm plywood down with screws every 300 mm at minimum. Anything else will move and crack your tiles over time.
Again, worth noting that the regs require all the services to have accessible isolation valves (if they don't already). This takes some thinking about if everything is being tiled, though under the bath often works for the shower...
Good luck with it all
PS People often ignore regs, but buyers solicitors are keen on seeing the sign offs for any work done these days
D
Just thought I'd have a breather from fitting an en-suite to check out the forums and there is a discussion on bathrooms going on! Lots of good advice already, so only a couple of points...
A bathroom refit must include an extractor to meet regulations. They are easy to fit and can run off the light switching, but it does depend on which electrical zone is being used and the type of extractor. It must include a three pole isolation switch at some point on the circuit. Technically, a bathroom refit is notifiable to building control, though like for like replacements are not usually brought to their attention.
Floor tiling is as easy as the walls as long as you take your time. Larger format tiles are harder to level over big areas, but I think you said it was small. In any case, make sure you tiles are on a very solid surface - if the house is old, it can be worth putting additional stiffeners between the joists - either noggins at right angles or sisters screwed to the existing joints to double them up. Then fix 18mm plywood down with screws every 300 mm at minimum. Anything else will move and crack your tiles over time.
Again, worth noting that the regs require all the services to have accessible isolation valves (if they don't already). This takes some thinking about if everything is being tiled, though under the bath often works for the shower...
Good luck with it all
PS People often ignore regs, but buyers solicitors are keen on seeing the sign offs for any work done these days
D
Post edited at 17:59
1
In reply to Derek Furze:
If it's a refit it doesn't need one, a room converted to a bathroom needs ventilation rather than a specified method of extraction.
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/kitchensbathroom...
> A bathroom refit must include an extractor to meet regulations.
If it's a refit it doesn't need one, a room converted to a bathroom needs ventilation rather than a specified method of extraction.
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/kitchensbathroom...
1
In reply to Heike:
I did ours, concealed cistern toilet, soft close vanity unit with square basin, 'shower bath' and glass enclosure, new upvc windows, tiled on all walls, laminate 'tiles' on floor, chrome towel radiator. Bathroom all from the bath store, rest from b&q for floor and tiles and screw fix for everything else. Start to finish cost 2 grand. New window in there too though. Things I learned-
Plan plan and plan again! I had to get in and do a job and be able to put whatever back again so we still had a functioning bathroom in the evening. It took longer to complete it but we wasn't rushing it. Use long flexi hoses for all your taps and water feeds, the ones with built in isolating valves. Made moving stuff about easy for tiling and flooring etc. get an electric tile cutter. They are cheap (£50) and fast, a little messy but easy to use. Treat each wall as a seporate entity when tiling going off a centre line on each wall. Don't worry about patterns going around the corners, all corners to be finished with mastic anyway. Have a go, good luck.
I did ours, concealed cistern toilet, soft close vanity unit with square basin, 'shower bath' and glass enclosure, new upvc windows, tiled on all walls, laminate 'tiles' on floor, chrome towel radiator. Bathroom all from the bath store, rest from b&q for floor and tiles and screw fix for everything else. Start to finish cost 2 grand. New window in there too though. Things I learned-
Plan plan and plan again! I had to get in and do a job and be able to put whatever back again so we still had a functioning bathroom in the evening. It took longer to complete it but we wasn't rushing it. Use long flexi hoses for all your taps and water feeds, the ones with built in isolating valves. Made moving stuff about easy for tiling and flooring etc. get an electric tile cutter. They are cheap (£50) and fast, a little messy but easy to use. Treat each wall as a seporate entity when tiling going off a centre line on each wall. Don't worry about patterns going around the corners, all corners to be finished with mastic anyway. Have a go, good luck.
1
In reply to Derek Furze:
Really? We have got a bloody great window, do you still need a extractor fan (IMHO they never work very well anyways...)
Really? We have got a bloody great window, do you still need a extractor fan (IMHO they never work very well anyways...)
In reply to wilkie14c:
Great advice. Thanks. I might give it a go, I feel like a challenge coming on. I might have to come back to you with detailed questions once I am at it...
> I did ours, concealed cistern toilet, soft close vanity unit with square basin, 'shower bath' and glass enclosure, new upvc windows, tiled on all walls, laminate 'tiles' on floor, chrome towel radiator. Bathroom all from the bath store, rest from b&q for floor and tiles and screw fix for everything else. Start to finish cost 2 grand. New window in there too though. Things I learned-
> Plan plan and plan again! I had to get in and do a job and be able to put whatever back again so we still had a functioning bathroom in the evening. It took longer to complete it but we wasn't rushing it. Use long flexi hoses for all your taps and water feeds, the ones with built in isolating valves. Made moving stuff about easy for tiling and flooring etc. get an electric tile cutter. They are cheap (£50) and fast, a little messy but easy to use. Treat each wall as a seporate entity when tiling going off a centre line on each wall. Don't worry about patterns going around the corners, all corners to be finished with mastic anyway. Have a go, good luck.
Great advice. Thanks. I might give it a go, I feel like a challenge coming on. I might have to come back to you with detailed questions once I am at it...
In reply to LastBoyScout:
>
> Helps a lot if your Dad is local and also pretty handy with plumbing and other things and your sister lives round the corner and you can use her shower
> Helps a lot if your Dad is local and also pretty handy with plumbing and other things and your sister lives round the corner and you can use her shower
> Ehhhhh my dad lives in Germany and so does my sister and hubby's parents and sister live in England (so almost as far away... However, we have a spare bathroom to use in the meantime...
In reply to Heike:
I'm doing my second bathroom at the moment. So far the big costs have been to do with fixing the mess hidden behind the last botch job; replacing a floor joist that had been destroyed by rot, re-plastering/boarding out walls where the previous damp had knackered it all.
The plumbing has been quite simple and I put in copper as I'm happier with that than plastic after the hassle we had at my sisters house using plastic. Use solvent weld waste pipes for cheap solid joins that never leak if made correctly. I like to add a rodding eye somewhere discreet if there are any long waste runs with shallow angles.
I bought both suites from onlinebathrooms.com. They were cheap and the products have been good value.
Tiling can be simplified by picking sensible tiles and good adhesive and grout. Very big and very small tiles are difficult to level so if you buy medium sized tiles about 8X10" they are easier to lay.
Use flexible powder mix/cementuous adhesive and flexible grout especially important if tiling over a wooden upstairs floor. Board over wooden floors with 12 mm ply to reduce the risk of movement and cracking and consider re-boarding uneven walls that you want to tile with moisture panel or shower board and you can seal it and tile directly on to it.
As stands I'm looking at ~£1000-1200 per bathroom.
I'm doing my second bathroom at the moment. So far the big costs have been to do with fixing the mess hidden behind the last botch job; replacing a floor joist that had been destroyed by rot, re-plastering/boarding out walls where the previous damp had knackered it all.
The plumbing has been quite simple and I put in copper as I'm happier with that than plastic after the hassle we had at my sisters house using plastic. Use solvent weld waste pipes for cheap solid joins that never leak if made correctly. I like to add a rodding eye somewhere discreet if there are any long waste runs with shallow angles.
I bought both suites from onlinebathrooms.com. They were cheap and the products have been good value.
Tiling can be simplified by picking sensible tiles and good adhesive and grout. Very big and very small tiles are difficult to level so if you buy medium sized tiles about 8X10" they are easier to lay.
Use flexible powder mix/cementuous adhesive and flexible grout especially important if tiling over a wooden upstairs floor. Board over wooden floors with 12 mm ply to reduce the risk of movement and cracking and consider re-boarding uneven walls that you want to tile with moisture panel or shower board and you can seal it and tile directly on to it.
As stands I'm looking at ~£1000-1200 per bathroom.
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In reply to Bob:
That's why you start in the centre and work out, rather than using a wall as a datum.
> The difficulty with tiling comes when the walls aren't parallel and you have to decide which one to line the tiling up against though in our current house we cheated and put the kitchen flooring in on the diagonal as there's 500mm difference in the width between either end!
That's why you start in the centre and work out, rather than using a wall as a datum.
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In reply to Heike:
The problem with the floor is stabilising the base, that' why people are suggesting boards.
You can use ply but it's thick, or you can use tile boards or you can use decoupling membrane. A small room should be more stable and the weight of the tiles will be less.
The problem is that you raise the level of the floor, so you need to take the door off more often than not and shave an inch off it, plus do something with the threshold that isn't too ugly.
Or you can rip out the floor boards and replace them with wood or fibre boards which won't raise the floor so much.
That's why you get much better vinyls now.
The problem with the floor is stabilising the base, that' why people are suggesting boards.
You can use ply but it's thick, or you can use tile boards or you can use decoupling membrane. A small room should be more stable and the weight of the tiles will be less.
The problem is that you raise the level of the floor, so you need to take the door off more often than not and shave an inch off it, plus do something with the threshold that isn't too ugly.
Or you can rip out the floor boards and replace them with wood or fibre boards which won't raise the floor so much.
That's why you get much better vinyls now.
In reply to winhill:
I have a lot to learn, clearly!!! But I fancy a challenge. I'll give it a go.
Last question to you and all. How do you rip out tiles without ruining the underlying boards/materials?
Cheers for all your input and I might come back for more....questions that is
> The problem with the floor is stabilising the base, that' why people are suggesting boards.
> You can use ply but it's thick, or you can use tile boards or you can use decoupling membrane. A small room should be more stable and the weight of the tiles will be less.
> The problem is that you raise the level of the floor, so you need to take the door off more often than not and shave an inch off it, plus do something with the threshold that isn't too ugly.
> Or you can rip out the floor boards and replace them with wood or fibre boards which won't raise the floor so much.
> That's why you get much better vinyls now.
I have a lot to learn, clearly!!! But I fancy a challenge. I'll give it a go.
Last question to you and all. How do you rip out tiles without ruining the underlying boards/materials?
Cheers for all your input and I might come back for more....questions that is
In reply to Heike:
"Last question to you and all. How do you rip out tiles without ruining the underlying boards/materials?"
This can range from a simple job with a bolster chisel to a massive hassle with powertools or just tiling over the old.
If it's plaster board behind the current tiles you're highly likely to destroy the board and will probably do as well to take out the old boards as tidy as possible and re-board. The alternative of tiling over the old can be done but it can be a hassle where the tiles but up to other things.
People above are saying a lot about electric tile cutters. obviously they are good for complex or thin cuts but I find that you can get a better cleaner cut with a score and snap cutter for all the straight cuts. Partner this with a tile hand saw and a tile file and you can do most things a diamond electric saw can.
"Last question to you and all. How do you rip out tiles without ruining the underlying boards/materials?"
This can range from a simple job with a bolster chisel to a massive hassle with powertools or just tiling over the old.
If it's plaster board behind the current tiles you're highly likely to destroy the board and will probably do as well to take out the old boards as tidy as possible and re-board. The alternative of tiling over the old can be done but it can be a hassle where the tiles but up to other things.
People above are saying a lot about electric tile cutters. obviously they are good for complex or thin cuts but I find that you can get a better cleaner cut with a score and snap cutter for all the straight cuts. Partner this with a tile hand saw and a tile file and you can do most things a diamond electric saw can.
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In reply to Heike: You can plan it on sketchup. Use bathroom paint or similar for walls.
I would always use a qualified electrician and ft a fan, but these are some regs;
http://www.lights4living.com/bathroom-light-information/i36
With tiling medium sized tiles are a good plan- an average bath is 70cm so 20cm tiles give you a 10cm cut in the corner- with any tiling is worth avoiding narrow strips- half to three quarter cuts in the corner always looks better.
Also consider a lit mirror cabinet and or mirror/light above basin.
For mastic we use these, in combination with builders wipes;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cramer-FUGI5-5-Fugi-Kit/dp/B003BNLQQ0
An off white scheme is easiest as all the junctions (ceiling to tiles etc) are less visible. With the floor consider vinyl on ply- worth getting a local supplier to quote for supply and fit as can be very reasonable. Would go for dark grey or a flecky colour as shows marks less.
I would always use a qualified electrician and ft a fan, but these are some regs;
http://www.lights4living.com/bathroom-light-information/i36
With tiling medium sized tiles are a good plan- an average bath is 70cm so 20cm tiles give you a 10cm cut in the corner- with any tiling is worth avoiding narrow strips- half to three quarter cuts in the corner always looks better.
Also consider a lit mirror cabinet and or mirror/light above basin.
For mastic we use these, in combination with builders wipes;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cramer-FUGI5-5-Fugi-Kit/dp/B003BNLQQ0
An off white scheme is easiest as all the junctions (ceiling to tiles etc) are less visible. With the floor consider vinyl on ply- worth getting a local supplier to quote for supply and fit as can be very reasonable. Would go for dark grey or a flecky colour as shows marks less.
In reply to Heike:
Winhill is right above and has put the planning portal link in as well....
On extraction it seems like windows should cover it, but then bathrooms with mould are pretty common. The cheaper fans are noisy and pretty rubbish, but good in-line ones equipped with humidstat switching, mounted in the ceiling space, take care of hot, steamy showers discreetly. But Winhill is right, you can ignore the issue...
Winhill is right above and has put the planning portal link in as well....
On extraction it seems like windows should cover it, but then bathrooms with mould are pretty common. The cheaper fans are noisy and pretty rubbish, but good in-line ones equipped with humidstat switching, mounted in the ceiling space, take care of hot, steamy showers discreetly. But Winhill is right, you can ignore the issue...
In reply to Heike:
I did mine, but note that it will take far longer than you think! You can use plastic push-fit for plumbing, it does the job quite nicely regardless of what the professionals might say about it!
I avoided tiling by using cladding on the shower walls but the finish isn't quite as good, you may just want to get a tiler in instead.
I did mine, but note that it will take far longer than you think! You can use plastic push-fit for plumbing, it does the job quite nicely regardless of what the professionals might say about it!
I avoided tiling by using cladding on the shower walls but the finish isn't quite as good, you may just want to get a tiler in instead.
In reply to Derek Furze:
I don't believe that is actually correct; one is required for a *new* bathroom or if there was already one, but AIUI if there is an opening window and it is a simple refit with things in the same locations you are *not* required to add one. Nonetheless it is a good idea!
> A bathroom refit must include an extractor to meet regulations.
I don't believe that is actually correct; one is required for a *new* bathroom or if there was already one, but AIUI if there is an opening window and it is a simple refit with things in the same locations you are *not* required to add one. Nonetheless it is a good idea!
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