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my dog doesnt like submissive dogs.

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 mark s 11 Jul 2015
My dog has a real problem with submissive type dogs.especially the ones that yelp when it hasn't even done anything as that does get her going.
I assume the reaction to squeals is she was bred from hunting dogs.

She is zero bother with dogs that stand their ground and just get on with being dogs.
She nips their back ends when they start,like she is encouraging them to run.

Anyone else had this or ideas how to train her not to do it?
 marsbar 11 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:

You could try keeping her on a lead so she doesn't bite other dogs?
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 zimpara 11 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:
It is a wilderness trait. Kill the thing making noise, including their own young. And also apparently why crying babies get chewed up every now and again.

And different dogs have different play styles. Some mixtures being particularly hair raising to watch.

I'd keep her on lead and away from anyone she might nip.
Post edited at 12:14
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ceri 11 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:
What kind of dog is she and how old? Sounds like she might be a bit of a bully and can pick put easy targets. My middle dog who is actually quite afraid of some dogs will chase and bully the scared ones, given the chance.
I would suggest you need a good recall and leave command for her. Maybe also that you choose which dogs she interacts with rather than her.
Post edited at 13:31
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 timjones 11 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:
> My dog has a real problem with submissive type dogs.especially the ones that yelp when it hasn't even done anything as that does get her going.

> I assume the reaction to squeals is she was bred from hunting dogs.

> She is zero bother with dogs that stand their ground and just get on with being dogs.

> She nips their back ends when they start,like she is encouraging them to run.

> Anyone else had this or ideas how to train her not to do it?

How old is your dog?

With any dog you really need to be able to stop it doing anything with a simple command. It has to know when it is displeasing you.
Post edited at 13:50
OP mark s 12 Jul 2015
In reply to timjones:

She is 5 and a she is a lurcher
 mikekeswick 12 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:

You need to start with the basics. How is your recall? How much training have you done with her? I would suggest buying some books to learn from - you will simply get a load of contrasting opinions on an open forum.
Keeping on a lead is the worst thing you can do. The only reason a dog has to be kept on a lead is if the owner isn't upto the job of training that dog! 'Don't shoot the dog' is the name of a great dog training book. Dogs can take a long time to train properly. Most gun dogs are only ready about two years old and 18 months of solid work.
Remember dogs can't reason they simply react to their surroundings. Consistency is the real key with dog training.
 arch 12 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:

I must have her Brother. One of my Lurchers is exactly the same. Alright around Bitches and neutered Dogs, but entire Dogs, he's a problem. If they hold their ground, it's then a stand off. If the Dog goes to make of, he nabs them, mainly the hind quarters. He's 13 ish now, we've had him 7 years. He's always done it. He's better than he was but is still an handful. I tend to walk where there are very few other Dog walkers, and when we do come across one he's on the lead as soon as.

I've never managed to "cure" him, I just try to manage it now. Although, you could try one of those shock collars (assuming you don't live in Wales) as she's is still young. I've heard good reports with people using them.

ATB with her, I feel your pain.



.......And don't keep her on a lead all the time either, it's no life for a running Dog.
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 Ridge 12 Jul 2015
In reply to mikekeswick:
> You need to start with the basics. How is your recall?

It's a lurcher, they have valves in their ears that block all sound when they decide to chase something
Post edited at 12:09
 marsbar 12 Jul 2015
In reply to mikekeswick:
I meant initially keep her on a lead around other dogs until or unless the behaviour is dealt with.

As for helpful comments about what the owner is capable of, those are judgemental, macho and unhelpful.

I took on an abused and untrained fear aggressive dog and it took a long time to do anything with him. Despite amazing progress over the years, he will never have a 100% recall that I could totally trust if there is something more interesting than me. I don't let him off the lead in busy parks with other dogs, or anywhere near roads.
Post edited at 13:26
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 Al Evans 12 Jul 2015
In reply to marsbar:

I had a Deerhound who was the gentlest least aggressive dog I had ever known, We lived near the actress Bridget Forsyth who I knew from work, she had a harlequin great dane, roughly the same size, also a gentle dog. One day while out walking them we met up, Both dogs went vastly aggressive growling, teeth bared. We were both embarrased about our dogs and swore they had never done anything like before. All we could assume was that both of them seeing a dog of similar size felt threatened
 Alex Slipchuk 12 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:

I'd advise keeping the dog on a lead and muzzled.

If it bites other dogs, teach it a lesson it won't forget (you will only need to do this once if done correctly), you have a working dog and you are it's employer. You have responsibilities to other dogs and their owners, that they shouldn't be in a state of fear or alarm.



Good effort taking on the challenge, now it's time to take on the responsibility.
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 arch 12 Jul 2015
In reply to Alex Slipchuk:
Rubbish. It's a Lurcher FFS. Not a pit bull.

If the muzzled dog gets set upon how is it supposed to defend it's self. And how are you going to teach a dog "A lesson" ??
Post edited at 17:02
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OP mark s 12 Jul 2015
In reply to Alex Slipchuk:

its never been or going to be muzzled,if a dog attacks it ,it will not be able to defend its self.
its not a nasty dog
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 Dave the Rave 12 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:

> its never been or going to be muzzled,if a dog attacks it ,it will not be able to defend its self.

> its not a nasty dog

I wouldn't muzzle a dog either. A dog that needs muzzling anywhere, other than security dogs, is in need of an injection.

Try a water pistol in the face when it does it, or distraction with a treat.
4
 timjones 12 Jul 2015
In reply to arch:

> Rubbish. It's a Lurcher FFS. Not a pit bull.

> If the muzzled dog gets set upon how is it supposed to defend it's self. And how are you going to teach a dog "A lesson" ??

If you've got it right from an early age you can demonstrate your displeasure merely by the tone of your voice. If this hasn't been trained from an early age then you've got a problem and a lead when around other dogs may be the only answer.
 Alex Slipchuk 12 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:
It's the op who clearly stated his dog has a real problem. If it attacks other dogs then it should go if you are unable to keep the dog controlled. If I was out with my child and felt threatened by any dog, I would kill it there and then before the dog had a chance, I would then deal with any questions later.

A lurcher kept on lead is a miserable dog.
Post edited at 20:26
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 marsbar 12 Jul 2015
In reply to Al Evans:

Must have been quite a surprise to both to see someone their own size.

We have a neighbour with a Turkish Shepard dog, its huge. I think it's a Kangal? http://ninjafallow.tumblr.com/post/24929605172/i-saw-one-of-those-dogs-a-tu...

When I am on my own he lets me stroke his nose and paws over the fence (he stands up with his paws on a 5 foot fence!) and wants a snuggle. If I am with my dog or my husband he barks!
 arch 12 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:

Might as well muzzle my pair. We've just got back from our last mouch of the day. Three Rabbits got up in the middle of the field. My pair - Not even bothered.

Useless tw&ts.
 wintertree 12 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:

> its never been or going to be muzzled,if a dog attacks it ,it will not be able to defend its self.

Also

> She nips their back ends when they start,like she is encouraging them to run.

If the other dog happens to be aggressive after being attacked and seriously injures or kills your dog in self defence/retaliation, I assume therefore that you are going to accept that consequence happily as the other dog was defending itself.

No? Then you have your answer.
1
 Timmd 12 Jul 2015
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> I wouldn't muzzle a dog either. A dog that needs muzzling anywhere, other than security dogs, is in need of an injection.

> Try a water pistol in the face when it does it, or distraction with a treat.

I understand that water from a water sprayer or water bottle in the face is an effective way of deterring dogs, and 'teaching old dogs new tricks'.

I saw about a youngish bull dog (5 years old?) which kept running at other dogs and pulling on the lead, and it learnt not to after getting squirted in the face each time it did.
OP mark s 12 Jul 2015
In reply to wintertree:

For f*cks sake their are some arsey tw*ts on here.
Answers from put it down,some cnut says he would kill any dog if he wanted to never let it off its lead.

Its never attacked another dog ,its not nasty ,its just a bit boisterous at times.


As for the normal responses,thanks . Nice to know at least some people are realistic
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 Dave the Rave 12 Jul 2015
In reply to Timmd:

> I understand that water from a water sprayer or water bottle in the face is an effective way of deterring dogs, and 'teaching old dogs new tricks'.

> I saw about a youngish bull dog (5 years old?) which kept running at other dogs and pulling on the lead, and it learnt not to after getting squirted in the face each time it did.

Yes. It does work well.
 Dave the Rave 12 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:
Think you misread. I don't want you to have your dog put down or muzzled.
OP mark s 12 Jul 2015
In reply to Alex Slipchuk:

You talk some shit pal
2
 Timmd 12 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:

If you're anywhere near Sheffield I know of somebody with a good reputation for dealing with 'problem dogs', people have gone to her as a last resort and been amazed.
 wintertree 12 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:

> Its never attacked another dog ,its not nasty ,its just a bit boisterous at times.

You said, in your first message "nips their back ends". Assuming by "nips" you mean "uses its teeth to bite" and by back ends you mean "bottom" then it has attacked another dog.

I was once "nipped", unprovoked, by a dog when walking. If it had been muzzled and hadn't attacked me it would have had a less painful day. It turns out that my boot reacts instinctively, and before thinking catches up, to my leg being nipped.

Perhaps by "nipped" you meant "playfully yaps at" and there's a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding on this thread.

If by "nipped" you meant "uses its teeth to bite" then rather than ranting at me about what others have said, consider that from the view of other dog owners your dog may well be attacking their dogs, and how you would feel if their dog reacted and bit your dog. That action is the very reason you use to justify not taking precautions to stop your dog attacking other dogs.
Post edited at 21:55
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 Timmd 12 Jul 2015
In reply to wintertree:

It's not like he's implied he's going to keep letting it nip other dogs, or that he's not going to keep it on a lead and an eye on his dog to make sure it doesn't happen.

2
 wintertree 12 Jul 2015
In reply to Timmd:

> It's not like he's implied he's going to keep letting it nip other dogs, or that he's not going to keep it on a lead and an eye on his dog to make sure it doesn't happen.

No, but he asked for advice and then started disagreeing with advice he didn't like, using reasons that are hypocritical considering the reason he asked for advice.

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 Timmd 12 Jul 2015
In reply to wintertree:
I can see why you feel strongly after being nipped/bitten in the legs, and why him not wanting to muzzle it would annoy you given that, but he has only said he wouldn't want to muzzle it in case it gets attacked, and nothing about being careless about letting it continue to nip.

I just get the feeling there's something of a gulf between what he's posted and what people are being critical of him for.

It's another 'forum hoohar', I reckon.
Post edited at 22:09
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 Fraser 12 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:

> Its never attacked another dog ,its not nasty ,its just a bit boisterous at times.

But then from the OP:
> She nips their back ends when they start,like she is encouraging them to run.


You can't have it both ways I'm afraid. A 'nip' may not be savage, but it is an 'attack'.
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OP mark s 12 Jul 2015
In reply to Fraser:

No its not,you are putting human emotions to dogs.
Attacking is nothing like what i have seen with my dog.
Dogs are dogs and that's what they do.

Some of the reactions on here,you would think I let a 100kg rotty loose knowing it may kill another dog. Its an 18kg whippet x collie!!!!

Dogs sometimes fight,she has had dogs fight with her, I didn't run up to the other dog trying to kick it like some idiot suggests they would do on here. People have apologised for what happened ,I told them not to worry as its what dogs do.
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 marsbar 13 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:
You didn't mention the collie bit before. Makes more sense now.

Collies herd sheep by nipping them. They will transfer this to other dogs and children, particularly if they make certain noises.


http://pets.thenest.com/stop-dog-herding-5334.html

http://www.valgraysbcrescue.org.uk/understandingcollies.htm


I don't think the water spray is necessarily a good idea with a collie cross. It will stress them and make things escalate.

The best thing to do with collie types is to train them to respond to various commands and when there is a problem behaviour, interrupt that behaviour with a different command.

With mine I use heel.

We practiced walking to heel away from any distractions and with lots of praise and reward.

Now if we see a dog I pre-empt a kick off by giving the command and praise for getting that right.

It's no use telling a collie what they are doing wrong. Tell them what you want them to do instead.
Post edited at 00:42
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 ActionSte 13 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:

Same as everyone else has said -

Work on recall.

Keep on a long lead around dogs, but as soon as the first sign of any nipping/biting behavior shows, it needs a swift, sharp pull - like you're setting a nut while climbing - and for you to be immediately standing over the dog, deep tone, showing exactly how pissed off you are with what its just done. Simple ''NO. BAD'' or ''DONT YOU BLOODY DARE'' or whatever command you use.

Eventually the dog will get the point that you're in charge, and while it can approach other dogs which is all cool, that kind of behavior is just going to get it in bother with you. Eventually the lead can go

Training experience -
38kg Doberman
30kg Siberian Husky
8kg Beddlington Terrier
5kg Border Terrier
20kg Labrador/Whippet cross
5kg Toy poodle (evil, vicious little dog, got there in the end)
 Fraser 13 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:

> No its not,you are putting human emotions to dogs.

> Attacking is nothing like what i have seen with my dog.

> Dogs are dogs and that's what they do.


Whatever, you see it one way, others evidently see it another. I've had and been around dogs all my life so I'll leave it at that. As others have said, don't ask the question if you don't want to hear an answer that doesn't accord with your own perspective.
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aultguish 13 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:
I've not had dogs in years now but I used to train the male gun dogs for a friend who produced and worked champions.

I think a bit of a restart is what's needed.
Retrain the dog on the lead, get it walking at heel, listening to you and to ignore everything around it (watch a lot of gun dogs walking at heel, constantly looking at their owners).
You can do this, with either a deep voice, or a high pitched voice (single word command is best).
Once you have achieved this, go to a safe environment, do it all again but with no lead. Then, start to introduce distractions but keep the dogs attention on you. Distractions can be people, plastic bags,
Cycle bells, use your imagination. Finally use other dogs as the distraction.
If the dog falters, get it back on the lead and get it back to concentrating on you.

Hope you get sorted.
Post edited at 09:31
 ste_d 13 Jul 2015
In reply to mark s:

I have the opposite problem. My dog is a submissive whole dog who is constantly being attacked by other dogs!

Its become a real problem and I'm thinking that his bits will have to come off even though I know there are no guarantees it will help with the problem.

He is a 2 year old lab and he is very timid placid and I think has put himself right at the bottom of the pack. He was well socialised as a pup going to classes and mixing with other dogs. Probably when he was about 6 months old he was attacked by an alsation (owner no where in sight) which got him by the back of neck and was properly worrying at him. He was bitten by a jack russell a month later which holed his cheek. So he is still very nervous when meeting new dogs and will often 'freeze up'. His behaviour and possibly his gonads seems to lead otherwise un aggressive dogs wanting to have a go at him.

We now try to pre empt any problems, as his recall is good, by bringing him back at the first sign of any other dog (we normally walk him off lead) unless another lab or a spaniel or until we know whether he will get on ok with new met dog. This though is kind of a vicious circle as he is less likely to get to mix with other dogs who are abit more boisterous! So his behaviour gets more anxious and we need to use the lead more and so on...

Yesterday alone he had 3 dogs (2 terriers and a collie type cross) take a run and have a go at him...
In reply to mark s:
Hi Mark,

I have a whippet and spend time with many sight hounds as a result. This kind of behaviour is not unheard of.

Despite all the helpful (and not so helpful) advice from the forum so far, I personally feel there is only one way to deal with this and it is to hire a trainer and let them look at the situation one on one over the course of a few days/weeks. It will cost you from not a lot to a reasonable chunk of course (depending on how severe the behaviour is and how difficult it is to correct) but it is realistically what should be responsibly done.

As you will likely be painfully aware, it's not a big step from this soft mouthed behaviour to a harder mouth. If you're not careful you'll end up with a cockapoo hanging from the jaws of your dog. I've seen it happen, and it's not pretty.

Good luck. And keep us updated.
Post edited at 11:20
In reply to ste_d:
Neutering may help to an extent but ultimately this is a lack of confidence beginning to manifest a change in body language, Ste. You'll need to work on this ground up to rebuild which can take a while, but he's young enough if you start soon. As per the above- advice and one on one from a professional local trainer is your best bet.
Post edited at 11:19
OP mark s 13 Jul 2015
In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

Thanks for the helpful replies, will see about getting some dog trainer on the case.



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