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youtube.com/watch?v=Mr8SmrH_D1k&
Interesting how last weeks post of a 2 year old YouTube clip showing a police officer chewing gum during a stop/search created quite a stir on this form, primarily from the outraged/ anti-police brigade...
...but no mention whatsoever of a similar clip showing couple of coppers from Northampton discharging their duties great professionalism and bravery, despite the story being widely reported in the press.
Seems very UKC, to me. I await the hate.
Interesting how last weeks post of a 2 year old YouTube clip showing a police officer chewing gum during a stop/search created quite a stir on this form, primarily from the outraged/ anti-police brigade...
...but no mention whatsoever of a similar clip showing couple of coppers from Northampton discharging their duties great professionalism and bravery, despite the story being widely reported in the press.
Seems very UKC, to me. I await the hate.
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In reply to THE.WALRUS:
You know what: I hadn't seen the earlier footage until someone posted here, and I hadn't seen your footage until posted here. Surprisingly, I don't spend my entire life searching YouTube and other media outlets for examples of Police behaviour.
Your link seems to show admirable policing. Why are you expecting hate?
You know what: I hadn't seen the earlier footage until someone posted here, and I hadn't seen your footage until posted here. Surprisingly, I don't spend my entire life searching YouTube and other media outlets for examples of Police behaviour.
Your link seems to show admirable policing. Why are you expecting hate?
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In reply to THE.WALRUS:
Entirely brought about by the actions of the officer. He clearly wasn't polite enough, and if he'd approached me with that attitude, doubtless I would have reacted the same way.
Or something.
Entirely brought about by the actions of the officer. He clearly wasn't polite enough, and if he'd approached me with that attitude, doubtless I would have reacted the same way.
Or something.
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In reply to THE.WALRUS:
If he had asked nicely I am sure the guy would have complied.
Top marks to the plod, I would have been pepper spraying the crap out of him.
This highlights something I have been saying for a long time.
All officers should have permanent fixed cameras, I have no doubt at all that had it not been filmed the guy would be claiming police brutality and that others would have come forward saying how he is a great lad who would never do anything like they are accusing him of.
If he had asked nicely I am sure the guy would have complied.
Top marks to the plod, I would have been pepper spraying the crap out of him.
This highlights something I have been saying for a long time.
All officers should have permanent fixed cameras, I have no doubt at all that had it not been filmed the guy would be claiming police brutality and that others would have come forward saying how he is a great lad who would never do anything like they are accusing him of.
Post edited at 06:55
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In reply to THE.WALRUS:
At the risk of being contentious, two people doing the job they are trained and paid to do, albeit they appear to be doing that job well, is surely not so rare as to be newsworthy?
At the risk of being contentious, two people doing the job they are trained and paid to do, albeit they appear to be doing that job well, is surely not so rare as to be newsworthy?
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In reply to Hyphin:
Sadly confronting violent knife wielding idiots isn't as rare as it should be - though footage of it is.
Despite the mighty arsenal of a stick, some weak CS spray, a plastic card that says "Police" and the ninja-like fighting skills that 2 days training a year gives you, it still requires some bravery to run forwards and confront life-threatening danger.
> At the risk of being contentious, two people doing the job they are trained and paid to do, albeit they appear to be doing that job well, is surely not so rare as to be newsworthy?
Sadly confronting violent knife wielding idiots isn't as rare as it should be - though footage of it is.
Despite the mighty arsenal of a stick, some weak CS spray, a plastic card that says "Police" and the ninja-like fighting skills that 2 days training a year gives you, it still requires some bravery to run forwards and confront life-threatening danger.
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In reply to THE.WALRUS:
Why is there 24 second cut from the moment he goes down with a whippy batton apparently coming down on his face? It's clearly a video of people doing a difficult, dangerous job but that cut just makes me wonder what they don't want me to see and why. Bad beating or bad editorial judgement... the problem is it's a police PR video and that's what I'm left thinking, not 'job well done' which might very well not be the fault of the officer making the arrest.
jk
Why is there 24 second cut from the moment he goes down with a whippy batton apparently coming down on his face? It's clearly a video of people doing a difficult, dangerous job but that cut just makes me wonder what they don't want me to see and why. Bad beating or bad editorial judgement... the problem is it's a police PR video and that's what I'm left thinking, not 'job well done' which might very well not be the fault of the officer making the arrest.
jk
Post edited at 13:39
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In reply to THE.WALRUS:
At the end of the clip when the guy is on the ground being cautioned, calm as a cucumber he's replying, "Yeah, ok" sounds completely in control of himself, no swearing, doesn't sound pissed etc.
I just think, why the hell did he kick off with a knife in the first place, what was he thinking of? Talk about how to make life difficult for yourself.
At the end of the clip when the guy is on the ground being cautioned, calm as a cucumber he's replying, "Yeah, ok" sounds completely in control of himself, no swearing, doesn't sound pissed etc.
I just think, why the hell did he kick off with a knife in the first place, what was he thinking of? Talk about how to make life difficult for yourself.
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In reply to Indy:
You do acknowledge situations where soldiers have displayed bravery, don't you?
> Err... what next a video of a soldier being shot at?????
You do acknowledge situations where soldiers have displayed bravery, don't you?
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In reply to off-duty:
Meh!
A member of the public yes but a trained and paid person in the line of duty?
Meh!
A member of the public yes but a trained and paid person in the line of duty?
Post edited at 16:31
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In reply to goldmember:
Do something noteworthy and yes credit where its due. Am I not correct in saying that part of police training includes dealing with violent situations? Last I heard Met police were on a starting salary of £26k + London weighting of £7k ??
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
Do something noteworthy and yes credit where its due. Am I not correct in saying that part of police training includes dealing with violent situations? Last I heard Met police were on a starting salary of £26k + London weighting of £7k ??
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
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In reply to Indy:
What on earth has the salary got to do with anything?
(For info - starting salary in the Met is [edited] about 22K, with a 6.5K London weighting. And nowadays you need to do a Certificate in Policing (cost 1K and valid 3 years) before you join/are accepted.)
And where do you get the impression that by acknowledging police bravery officers are somehow complaining about having to confront violent armed thugs?
Still, I'm pleased that you expect everyday heroism in your police service. It's good to know we are so well regarded.
What on earth has the salary got to do with anything?
(For info - starting salary in the Met is [edited] about 22K, with a 6.5K London weighting. And nowadays you need to do a Certificate in Policing (cost 1K and valid 3 years) before you join/are accepted.)
And where do you get the impression that by acknowledging police bravery officers are somehow complaining about having to confront violent armed thugs?
Still, I'm pleased that you expect everyday heroism in your police service. It's good to know we are so well regarded.
Post edited at 17:14
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In reply to off-duty:
No, I'm just pissed when people expect 'extra' for doing the job they're trained and paid for. Went for a meal at a posh restaurant at the weekend and they felt that they were entitled to add "a discretionary 12.5% gratuity" to the bill.... for? doing there jobs.
No, I'm just pissed when people expect 'extra' for doing the job they're trained and paid for. Went for a meal at a posh restaurant at the weekend and they felt that they were entitled to add "a discretionary 12.5% gratuity" to the bill.... for? doing there jobs.
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In reply to off-duty:
''Entirely brought about by the actions of the officer. He clearly wasn't polite enough, and if he'd approached me with that attitude, doubtless I would have reacted the same way.''
You're not, when you post things like the above which seem to sarcastically refer to a past video on UKC where the police approach a man and ask him if he's wanted before trying to search him without doing the checks first, which they then do and find out that he isn't, during which episode of bad policing the man gets rather irate.
Like this one here... youtube.com/watch?v=OJopy-CIm-s&
If I've got the wrong end of the stick, then you're very highly regarded. Any police person who sides with the police during bad policing is always a worry, though. Genuinely so.
I'm really impressed by the police in the OP. I'd hate to come across as being anti-police, since I'm certainly not.
Have a nice day.
> Still, I'm pleased that you expect everyday heroism in your police service. It's good to know we are so well regarded.
''Entirely brought about by the actions of the officer. He clearly wasn't polite enough, and if he'd approached me with that attitude, doubtless I would have reacted the same way.''
You're not, when you post things like the above which seem to sarcastically refer to a past video on UKC where the police approach a man and ask him if he's wanted before trying to search him without doing the checks first, which they then do and find out that he isn't, during which episode of bad policing the man gets rather irate.
Like this one here... youtube.com/watch?v=OJopy-CIm-s&
If I've got the wrong end of the stick, then you're very highly regarded. Any police person who sides with the police during bad policing is always a worry, though. Genuinely so.
I'm really impressed by the police in the OP. I'd hate to come across as being anti-police, since I'm certainly not.
Have a nice day.
Post edited at 17:30
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In reply to Indy:
As I've said. I'm pleased that you see such everyday heroism as "part of the role" of police officers. Not quite sure how it compares with the culture of tipping - but I'm sure you will have some logic behind your reasoning.
Thanks.
> No, I'm just pissed when people expect 'extra' for doing the job they're trained and paid for. Went for a meal at a posh restaurant at the weekend and they felt that they were entitled to add "a discretionary 12.5% gratuity" to the bill.... for? doing there jobs.
As I've said. I'm pleased that you see such everyday heroism as "part of the role" of police officers. Not quite sure how it compares with the culture of tipping - but I'm sure you will have some logic behind your reasoning.
Thanks.
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In reply to Timmd:
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on our respective assessments of that interaction. It was done to death on the previous thread.
It was a sarcastic reference to that thread though. This video demonstrates how quickly, and dangerously (as well as at times unexpectedly) an interaction can escalate.
(Incidentally - no search was carried out during that video, and I'm not entirely certain about how you would carry out checks on someone whose identity you are not entirely certain about without actually stopping him and speaking to him.)
My position on that video was that it could have been done better - but that if "smirking" and "chewing gum" are "BAD POLICING" then we aren't quite in a Stasi regime.
Likewise.
> ''Entirely brought about by the actions of the officer. He clearly wasn't polite enough, and if he'd approached me with that attitude, doubtless I would have reacted the same way.''
> You're not, when you post things like the above which seem to sarcastically refer to a past video on UKC where the police approach a man and ask him if he's wanted before trying to search him without doing the checks first, which they then do and find out that he isn't, during which episode of bad policing the man gets rather irate.
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on our respective assessments of that interaction. It was done to death on the previous thread.
It was a sarcastic reference to that thread though. This video demonstrates how quickly, and dangerously (as well as at times unexpectedly) an interaction can escalate.
(Incidentally - no search was carried out during that video, and I'm not entirely certain about how you would carry out checks on someone whose identity you are not entirely certain about without actually stopping him and speaking to him.)
> If I've got the wrong end of the stick, then you're very highly regarded. Any police person who sides with the police during bad policing is always a worry, though. Genuinely so.
My position on that video was that it could have been done better - but that if "smirking" and "chewing gum" are "BAD POLICING" then we aren't quite in a Stasi regime.
> I'm really impressed by the police in the OP....
Likewise.
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In reply to Indy:
I think that training largely involves shouting 'Get Back!' very loudly. Not particularly effective training, IMHO.
> Do something noteworthy and yes credit where its due. Am I not correct in saying that part of police training includes dealing with violent situations?
I think that training largely involves shouting 'Get Back!' very loudly. Not particularly effective training, IMHO.
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In reply to THE.WALRUS:
Mr Walrus
Sir
The officers in the video should be issued with rapid deploying mini steps. They could be thrown into the path of that bounder with the knife, he would fall down the steps and sustain self-inflicted facial / head injuries and render himself unconscious, as happens in the charge office, and therefore be arrested safely.
Regards
Mr T
Mr Walrus
Sir
The officers in the video should be issued with rapid deploying mini steps. They could be thrown into the path of that bounder with the knife, he would fall down the steps and sustain self-inflicted facial / head injuries and render himself unconscious, as happens in the charge office, and therefore be arrested safely.
Regards
Mr T
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In reply to THE.WALRUS:
Sweet Baby Cheeses! How twisted do you have to be not to to be able to give credit to the two coppers for disarming and arresting someone who attacks them with a knife? To their credit neither they nor the assailant seems to have been seriously injured. Thank God we do have police like that. In many other countries, notably the USA, they'd have quite justifiably shot the guy in what would be an open-and-shut case of self defence once he ran at them with the knife. It may well be part of the job but I'm grateful we have people prepared to do it and have no trouble acknowledging a very professional and brave bit of police work.
Sweet Baby Cheeses! How twisted do you have to be not to to be able to give credit to the two coppers for disarming and arresting someone who attacks them with a knife? To their credit neither they nor the assailant seems to have been seriously injured. Thank God we do have police like that. In many other countries, notably the USA, they'd have quite justifiably shot the guy in what would be an open-and-shut case of self defence once he ran at them with the knife. It may well be part of the job but I'm grateful we have people prepared to do it and have no trouble acknowledging a very professional and brave bit of police work.
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In reply to Hyphin:
I did some self-defence training with specialist police officers once, and none of the scenarios we covered involved dealing with someone wielding a knife, so one of the group asked about it. The officer said that they sometimes do exercises in which someone has a red marker pen simulating a knife, and by the time they've been disarmed the officers are always covered in red ink. So I'd say it takes some serious guts to apprehend someone intent on damaging you with a knife, irrespective of it being your job.
I did some self-defence training with specialist police officers once, and none of the scenarios we covered involved dealing with someone wielding a knife, so one of the group asked about it. The officer said that they sometimes do exercises in which someone has a red marker pen simulating a knife, and by the time they've been disarmed the officers are always covered in red ink. So I'd say it takes some serious guts to apprehend someone intent on damaging you with a knife, irrespective of it being your job.
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In reply to off-duty:
Especially if the professional officer is a chippy tw*t.
> It was a sarcastic reference to that thread though. This video demonstrates how quickly, and dangerously (as well as at times unexpectedly) an interaction can escalate.
Especially if the professional officer is a chippy tw*t.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
I agree. Good job nobody has brought up any examples of that.
> Especially if the professional officer is a chippy tw*t.
I agree. Good job nobody has brought up any examples of that.
Post edited at 20:24
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In reply to Timmd:
9 police chase boy into canal and stand around for half an hour watching him drown. They did preventing a very brave member of the public trying to save him. An officer did enter the water but only after it was obvious the boy was dead.
Maybe we should have an award for cowardliness?
> I'm really impressed by the police in the OP.
9 police chase boy into canal and stand around for half an hour watching him drown. They did preventing a very brave member of the public trying to save him. An officer did enter the water but only after it was obvious the boy was dead.
Maybe we should have an award for cowardliness?
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In reply to Indy:
It sounds tragic.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/watchdog-probes-death-of-schoolboy-wh...
Fred McGruer :“The police were throwing rings to him, they were throwing ropes at him and obviously he didn’t want to come out, it was clear he didn’t want to be rescued so he didn’t take a hold of anything.”
I'd like to think I'd have jumped in, my lifesaving course was a few days about 15 years ago (I think they've stopped doing it now) and I've only been swimming a few times since then.
I'm not entirely sure I can remember the bit about "rescuing someone who is trying to escape police" - but it's easy to sit on the internet and claim that you would have been a hero.
> 9 police chase boy into canal and stand around for half an hour watching him drown. They did preventing a very brave member of the public trying to save him. An officer did enter the water but only after it was obvious the boy was dead.
> Maybe we should have an award for cowardliness?
It sounds tragic.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/watchdog-probes-death-of-schoolboy-wh...
Fred McGruer :“The police were throwing rings to him, they were throwing ropes at him and obviously he didn’t want to come out, it was clear he didn’t want to be rescued so he didn’t take a hold of anything.”
I'd like to think I'd have jumped in, my lifesaving course was a few days about 15 years ago (I think they've stopped doing it now) and I've only been swimming a few times since then.
I'm not entirely sure I can remember the bit about "rescuing someone who is trying to escape police" - but it's easy to sit on the internet and claim that you would have been a hero.
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In reply to off-duty:
Whatever else one may wish to say, the circumstances were rather different from one evading arrest.
> I'm not entirely sure I can remember the bit about "rescuing someone who is trying to escape police" - but it's easy to sit on the internet and claim that you would have been a hero.
Whatever else one may wish to say, the circumstances were rather different from one evading arrest.
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In reply to Mike Highbury:
The young lad appears to have smashed a window, been circulated as missing from home and been actively trying to run away from police.
> Whatever else one may wish to say, the circumstances were rather different from one evading arrest.
The young lad appears to have smashed a window, been circulated as missing from home and been actively trying to run away from police.
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In reply to off-duty:
This was a mental health matter.
Now, you might say, the police is ill-equipped to deal with that. For sure but if one was to design the police service, one wouldn't start where we are.
> The young lad appears to have smashed a window, been circulated as missing from home and been actively trying to run away from police.
This was a mental health matter.
Now, you might say, the police is ill-equipped to deal with that. For sure but if one was to design the police service, one wouldn't start where we are.
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In reply to Mike Highbury:
Was it? I haven't read that but it sounds highly likely.
The police are the default emergency service and we end up dealing with the overspill from everyone else. A massive demand is in relation to mental health, from searching for missing people, through "sectioning" people, to providing police custody as a last ditch "place of safety" - all of which is almost a topic in itself.
Redesign the police - or return responsibility to other agencies? One of a number of discussions that are ongoing in policing circles as austerity cuts mean we are forced to do more, and better, with less.
> This was a mental health matter.
Was it? I haven't read that but it sounds highly likely.
> Now, you might say, the police is ill-equipped to deal with that. For sure but if one was to design the police service, one wouldn't start where we are.
The police are the default emergency service and we end up dealing with the overspill from everyone else. A massive demand is in relation to mental health, from searching for missing people, through "sectioning" people, to providing police custody as a last ditch "place of safety" - all of which is almost a topic in itself.
Redesign the police - or return responsibility to other agencies? One of a number of discussions that are ongoing in policing circles as austerity cuts mean we are forced to do more, and better, with less.
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In reply to THE.WALRUS:
I showed this video to some people at work here. About half wished the police here were like that, the other half wondered why the officer didn't have a gun.
I showed this video to some people at work here. About half wished the police here were like that, the other half wondered why the officer didn't have a gun.
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In reply to THE.WALRUS:
Assuming you're referring to Indy's post immediately above yours, I note that's a comment on an entirely different incident. Whether it constitutes hate or mere disgust, I don't know; you'll have to ask Indy about that.
Are we not allowed to criticise the Police now? Or does all such criticism now fall under 'hate crime'?
It's a good job young girls and teenagers aren't bound by Health and Safety regulations...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1406401/Friend-saves-girl-knocked-in...
"The incident happened on the Kennet and Avon canal at Newbury, Berks. A police spokesman said: 'Karla deserves praise for her actions. She was very brave.'"
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/teenagers-save-toddler-from-canal-in...
> Theres the hate, dude...
Assuming you're referring to Indy's post immediately above yours, I note that's a comment on an entirely different incident. Whether it constitutes hate or mere disgust, I don't know; you'll have to ask Indy about that.
Are we not allowed to criticise the Police now? Or does all such criticism now fall under 'hate crime'?
It's a good job young girls and teenagers aren't bound by Health and Safety regulations...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1406401/Friend-saves-girl-knocked-in...
"The incident happened on the Kennet and Avon canal at Newbury, Berks. A police spokesman said: 'Karla deserves praise for her actions. She was very brave.'"
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/teenagers-save-toddler-from-canal-in...
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In reply to captain paranoia:
Criticise away. Interesting though, that a post about brave actions by police results in a response that is "hate or mere disgust".
Who would have guessed - apart from the OP, of course.
Your point being? Heroic actions sometimes result in heroic results?
I think we are aware of that :-
http://www.tamworthherald.co.uk/Hero-police-officer-rescues-woman-Tamworth-...
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/police-...
http://www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk/2015/06/07/police-rescue-man-from-shi...
They can also result in tragedy :-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-462288/Hero-dies-canal-saving-boy-9...
> Assuming you're referring to Indy's post immediately above yours, I note that's a comment on an entirely different incident. Whether it constitutes hate or mere disgust, I don't know; you'll have to ask Indy about that.
> Are we not allowed to criticise the Police now? Or does all such criticism now fall under 'hate crime'?
Criticise away. Interesting though, that a post about brave actions by police results in a response that is "hate or mere disgust".
Who would have guessed - apart from the OP, of course.
> It's a good job young girls and teenagers aren't bound by Health and Safety regulations...
> "The incident happened on the Kennet and Avon canal at Newbury, Berks. A police spokesman said: 'Karla deserves praise for her actions. She was very brave.'"
Your point being? Heroic actions sometimes result in heroic results?
I think we are aware of that :-
http://www.tamworthherald.co.uk/Hero-police-officer-rescues-woman-Tamworth-...
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/police-...
http://www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk/2015/06/07/police-rescue-man-from-shi...
They can also result in tragedy :-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-462288/Hero-dies-canal-saving-boy-9...
Post edited at 15:12
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In reply to off-duty:
A response to an entirely different incident. I've already made myself clear on my feelings about the incident in the OP:
"Your link seems to show admirable policing"
And it's clear that the OP's post is intended as a counter to the one you alluded to; you know, the one showing an example of a chippy tw*t...
I'm quite happy to praise the Police when they do a good job. I'm also quite prepared (though it doesn't make me happy) to criticise them when I think they have done a bad job.
My point being that Health and Safety issues have muddied the waters.
[edit]
More generally, I react to each of these reports individually, and don't bring any pre-judgement ('hate', if you will) to them. I might note trends and patterns*. So, pretty much like Police officers approach investigation of crime.
* one trend I have observed is the indecision caused by H&S concerns. Where is the H&S reasoning that prevents officers and public trying to assist until the lad had been underwater for ten minutes? Either you risk assess and go in immediately, or your risk assessment conclude it's not safe to enter at all, and you wait for specialist help. Just to be clear: this isn't hate; it's an expression of regret.
> Criticise away. Interesting though, that a post about brave actions by police results in a response that is "hate or mere disgust".
A response to an entirely different incident. I've already made myself clear on my feelings about the incident in the OP:
"Your link seems to show admirable policing"
And it's clear that the OP's post is intended as a counter to the one you alluded to; you know, the one showing an example of a chippy tw*t...
I'm quite happy to praise the Police when they do a good job. I'm also quite prepared (though it doesn't make me happy) to criticise them when I think they have done a bad job.
> Your point being?
My point being that Health and Safety issues have muddied the waters.
[edit]
More generally, I react to each of these reports individually, and don't bring any pre-judgement ('hate', if you will) to them. I might note trends and patterns*. So, pretty much like Police officers approach investigation of crime.
* one trend I have observed is the indecision caused by H&S concerns. Where is the H&S reasoning that prevents officers and public trying to assist until the lad had been underwater for ten minutes? Either you risk assess and go in immediately, or your risk assessment conclude it's not safe to enter at all, and you wait for specialist help. Just to be clear: this isn't hate; it's an expression of regret.
Post edited at 16:02
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