UKC

When climbing a new destination and browsing the logbooks there are often spoilers and even hints in the comments so does this class as beta?!

In reply to radddogg:

Obviously.

In reply to radddogg:

You'll have to start taking beta blockers.

In reply to radddogg:
Yes.
Isn't gaining beta the reason for browsing logbooks in the first place?

In reply to alan moore:

I thought it was to chuckle at other peoples epics...

In reply to radddogg:

Looking at your profile, you seem to be somewhere between VDiff and HS.

Do you really think beta makes much difference at that level?

In reply to radddogg:

If it helps you it's beta; if it doesn't then it isn't.

In reply to Oceanrower:



I don't know about radddogg, but I would say yes beta makes a difference at this level, as it does with any other. Why do you think otherwise?

In reply to Mark Collins:

Because on easier climbs the moves are generally easier to work out and you can be stood comfortably in balance while you do this - on harder climbs you can have seconds to work out a move while your strength rapidly ebbs - generalising of course - same goes for gear placements.

In reply to radddogg:

If you really want to waste your life worrying about all this 'beta' rubbish, simply stop reading logbooks.

Personally I often check logbooks because I prefer not to be surprised by, for example, a gearless slab that the guide neglects to mention....

In reply to radddogg:

One man's beta is another man's inspiration.

Al

In reply to Le Chevalier Mal Fet:

A gearless slab is often apparent from looking at it, its grade and/or the guidebook description. Notable examples where crucial stuff might be important and maybe not immediately obvious do exist and the grade is usually given in a way to reflect the guide description. A fair example is perhaps Profit of Doom (E4 6b) to avoid short gits being caught out.

However being told something like (exaggerated example)"before moving from hold x to hold y a rock 2 can be placed at chest height, after stepping up a friend 2 will go in the letterbox" isn't really cricket when someone can reasonably work that out while on sighting at that grade as it can drastically reduce the effort and the pressure upon you compared to someone doing the route without that knowledge. My opinion is that if people find things a bit hairy without all the extra pointers it maybe isn't more information that they usually need, it is to drop their grade a little for a while and "consolidate" more. Sometimes the information won't make the route any easier and they may then find themselves a little outside their comfort zone even with it. (I think in trad this becomes more of an issue at a certain grade ranges on certain rock types but it applies always applies somewhat).

In reply to radddogg:

guidebooks are beta

In reply to radddogg:

Comments made in the logbooks are as likely to be wrong as they are to be right, so sometimes they act as reverse beta and make the route more difficult.

In reply to ultrabumbly:

The gearless slab I had in mind is Submarine Slab on Crag Caerfai VS 4b. The upper slab is unprotected, but you can't really see it from below, and the Rockfax guide doesn't mention it. The only place this non-trivial fact is mentioned is in ukc comments.

I agree with your comments about hold by hold descriptions. However ukc isn't alone in these; many climbing guides use similar, particularly on harder routes. Even easier routes are often described using phrases like "using hidden holds in the crack".

In reply to radddogg:

I always check the logbooks before going for the onsight.

Chris

In reply to radddogg:

You could argue that anything that says more than "Route XYZ starts at point A and finishes at point B" is beta.

Al

In reply to Le Chevalier Mal Fet:

The "_VS_ 4b" is an indication you probably don't want to be falling off it. My rule of thumb has always been that if it isn't in the bottom to middle of its adjectival grade range for a given technical grade and isn't obviously unusually sustained then it is perhaps going to be necky for someone whose limit is at that grade. Exceptions to this are usually covered in guidebooks where there might be runout but much easier climbing before or after the meat of the route which might throw someone who isn't happy with such exposure even well below the crux grade of the route. Granted that this is in guidebook terms and is usually minimal. e.g. If it says "easy climbing leads to the top" or "nice slab" then it may well be unprotected but simple. I've on occasion had the odd mini-gibber up easy but certainly non trivial slab padding to a top out or reach a stance that I wasn't expecting and to be honest I would probably feel a little robbed not to have had those little surprises. I'm not saying it is wrong to go armed with this information, I would perhaps like to see overly detailed stuff that isn't crucial for someone comfortable at a grade to be a bit harder to see if someone chooses to or not. I'd agree in most cases it is done sportingly. Maybe something like a spoiler tag people use to discuss books etc.

In reply to Oceanrower:



I find that hard routes often only have one hold to go for, whereas with easier routes there appear to be options in all directions, often with more complicated ropework and route finding. So, beta is more useful for easier routes...

In reply to Oceanrower:


Lets take a minute to laugh at the newbie.

If you want to check my profile again you'll see that I'm making pretty good progress considering I'm 36, 14st and I've only been seriously climbing for about three months once a week generally. I couldn't pick fault in your logbook as you've chosen to hide it

The question popped into my head after reading the logbook for Jean Jeanie and learning about the knee jam after seconding it.

In reply to Le Chevalier Mal Fet:



I've started reading them after finding Fingernail S at Wilton One had been upgraded to VS

In reply to Urgles:

With the exception of Lancashire Rock where you're lucky to find the crag let alone the route!

In reply to radddogg:




Not laughing at all. I looked at your logbook to see what sort of level you were at and then asked a genuine question.

I can understand beta making a difference at highish E grades but genuinely wondered whether you thought it helped much al lower levels.

And my logbook wouldn't have helped much as :

A. I can rarely be bothered to fill it in
B. Being a softy southerner most of my climbing is on sport.

But FYI, trad somewhere around VS or HVS and sport from 6b to 7a (on a very, very good day!)

In reply to Oceanrower:

Of course beta can still help on lower graded climbs. If you're on a climb that's at your limit (no matter what the grade) you're going to find it easier if you know it plays to your strengths.
Have you honestly never found beta useful on any of the climbs that you've done?

In reply to Oceanrower:

Fair enough, unfortunately intonation is difficult to convey in forum posts so it seemed like a dig. Believe me though beta is useful even at HS

In reply to Oceanrower:

I'd say it was more important at the lower levels. Inexperienced climbers would lose all confidence if they strayed onto adjoining harder climbs by accident. I'd happily confess to be bordering on paranoia when it comes to knowing exactly which bit of rock I'm supposed to be climbing on. I imagine this isn't such an issue for higher grade climbers - but since I'm not one I can't talk from experience.