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Even though we are members of the bus pass generation, I and the people I climb with still keep trying to push ourselves albeit performing well below our youthful peak. These days this usually involves hurling ourselves at overly-steep limestone and clipping bolts. The exercise may be good for us but unfortunately at any one time at least one of us, and often more, is having some kind of medical treatment ranging from a bit physio to full blown operations on damaged, ligaments, tendons or knackered joints as yet another body part collapses under the strain. So is it a case of 'Good for them' for keeping active or are people like us silly old fools who need to grow old gracefully and sedttle for some easy classics instead of wasting valuable NHS resources for what is really just very elaborate self harming?
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In reply to Wiley Coyote:
An old climber that I know aked this question of his doctor as she treated him for a broken arm;, her reply - please keep on climbing, the total cost of your treatment is less than 1 weeks supply of some heart medication.
An old climber that I know aked this question of his doctor as she treated him for a broken arm;, her reply - please keep on climbing, the total cost of your treatment is less than 1 weeks supply of some heart medication.
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In reply to Wiley Coyote:
you could just as easily be a drain on resources by having been a sedentary lump your whole life.
I remember one of my early days out climbing we saw two chaps in their (at least)mid to late 70s plugging away at Stanage. The hardest we saw them climb was VS but it was hard to tell of what they were capable as they only got 2 routes done in 3 hours. I was kind of impressed that one guy didn't give a toss and had stripped to his string vest in the heat. This was when everyone was wearing lycra or loud Troll pants and the like. I think he was something of a role model and I have been on a trajectory toward that for the past 25 years .
I'd imagine over the next 10-20 years we will start to see a lot more active and even older climbers because of the increasing numbers of older people in excellent health.
you could just as easily be a drain on resources by having been a sedentary lump your whole life.
I remember one of my early days out climbing we saw two chaps in their (at least)mid to late 70s plugging away at Stanage. The hardest we saw them climb was VS but it was hard to tell of what they were capable as they only got 2 routes done in 3 hours. I was kind of impressed that one guy didn't give a toss and had stripped to his string vest in the heat. This was when everyone was wearing lycra or loud Troll pants and the like. I think he was something of a role model and I have been on a trajectory toward that for the past 25 years .
I'd imagine over the next 10-20 years we will start to see a lot more active and even older climbers because of the increasing numbers of older people in excellent health.
Post edited at 09:36
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In reply to ultrabumbly:
Not climbers but I wrote this
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12607829.Old_boy_racers_get_on_their_bik...
a few years back, and these guys are still my role models. They'd all be happy to die in the saddle. Jimmy Docherty got flattened by a truck a couple of years ago but just took it as part of the game. Fantyastic example, old climbesr I know too as I head for an age which I don;t dare think about ..
Not climbers but I wrote this
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12607829.Old_boy_racers_get_on_their_bik...
a few years back, and these guys are still my role models. They'd all be happy to die in the saddle. Jimmy Docherty got flattened by a truck a couple of years ago but just took it as part of the game. Fantyastic example, old climbesr I know too as I head for an age which I don;t dare think about ..
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In reply to Wiley Coyote:
Not quite there yet. I'm saving that for when I'm too old for proper climbing.
> These days this usually involves hurling ourselves at overly-steep limestone and clipping bolts.
Not quite there yet. I'm saving that for when I'm too old for proper climbing.
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In reply to Wiley Coyote:
I'm not old. In fact I don't even like being called middle aged.
But one thing I'm really starting to appreciate is just doing things with people. Running fast as I can or climbing as hard as I can is a distraction to what it's really all about.
If youngsters think it's foolish, it's only because they don't have the wisdom of age.
I'm not old. In fact I don't even like being called middle aged.
But one thing I'm really starting to appreciate is just doing things with people. Running fast as I can or climbing as hard as I can is a distraction to what it's really all about.
If youngsters think it's foolish, it's only because they don't have the wisdom of age.
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In reply to Wiley Coyote:
To quote my GP - "I'd rather see you with a climbing injury than diabetes or depression"
To quote my GP - "I'd rather see you with a climbing injury than diabetes or depression"
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In reply to Wiley Coyote:
My "youthfull peak" was in my 50's when I managed to climb f7a and E4 on a fairly regular basis. It's been a bit downhill since but at 67 I'm still climbing the grades I did in my 20's, E1/2 with the odd foray into E3 on a good day. I can't manage as many routes as I once did though and I have to listen to my body a lot more and know when to stop. Several friends have fallen by the wayside because they did not do this and have trashed their fingers. I can't see myself stopping altogether after 50 years. In fact I've just booked my flights for Kalymnos. The bolts and the warmth are a lot more attractive these days and I've set my sights on a few f6c's and perhaps even a f7a. I know climbers of the same age and some even older who climb harder. Just look at Angela Soper, she's an inspiration. Keep striving, it's what keeps you alive.
Al
My "youthfull peak" was in my 50's when I managed to climb f7a and E4 on a fairly regular basis. It's been a bit downhill since but at 67 I'm still climbing the grades I did in my 20's, E1/2 with the odd foray into E3 on a good day. I can't manage as many routes as I once did though and I have to listen to my body a lot more and know when to stop. Several friends have fallen by the wayside because they did not do this and have trashed their fingers. I can't see myself stopping altogether after 50 years. In fact I've just booked my flights for Kalymnos. The bolts and the warmth are a lot more attractive these days and I've set my sights on a few f6c's and perhaps even a f7a. I know climbers of the same age and some even older who climb harder. Just look at Angela Soper, she's an inspiration. Keep striving, it's what keeps you alive.
Al
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In reply to Wiley Coyote:
I'm 34, and already have a fair collection of injuries of my own. I wouldn't take kindly to being told to give up chasing my goals, and I don't see why you should.
Being sedentary doesn't just bring a risk of heart disease, it also comes with a range of joint problems, back pain, 'gammy legs' and all sorts of stuff that not only costs the taxpayer money, but also reduces that person's ability to contribute to their own families and communities. I'm not saying that a bad back makes someone socially useless, but that the handiness of a 'granddad' who can take the kids out for a walk or help put up a set of shelves is pretty significant. And staying active needs you to be motivated and passionate - if you're not that bothered about a day of easy classics then soon enough you'll stop doing it.
I'm sure also that remaining active and engaged with one's passions (and staying ambitious and driven about it) must help to maintain mental health. I bet there's a correlation between people who keep up their hobbies at the highest level into retirement and those who remain positive figures in their families and keep active in professional and voluntary roles.
Most importantly, though, there is an incalculable social benefit from people doing the thing they love with intensity and commitment. The people I look to for wisdom, advice and mentoring are those who have the benefit of a long life well lived, but who have continued to engage with the world in a way that is positive, intense and heartfelt. Folks in their 70s and 80s could justifiably become either cynical or out of touch, but those who continue to meet new people and do the things that enthuse them will tend to be realistic and encouraging sources of advice. For some people, it might mean hoovering up novels and attending literary festivals. For others it's woodwork. For some its sport climbing, fell-running or audax. I've met so many people like this, and seen the charisma and insight that they offer to others, that I think the world is richer in every sense for their presence.
I'm not sure you can measure the economic benefit of all of that, though if you ever could I bet it would be substantial. In any case, the value in making the world a more fun, varied and interesting place is inestimable. So if you're 'getting on' (and only you can be the judge), then do what you like. If that means climbing until you start falling to bits, then I think you've given something to society rather than taken it away.
I'm 34, and already have a fair collection of injuries of my own. I wouldn't take kindly to being told to give up chasing my goals, and I don't see why you should.
Being sedentary doesn't just bring a risk of heart disease, it also comes with a range of joint problems, back pain, 'gammy legs' and all sorts of stuff that not only costs the taxpayer money, but also reduces that person's ability to contribute to their own families and communities. I'm not saying that a bad back makes someone socially useless, but that the handiness of a 'granddad' who can take the kids out for a walk or help put up a set of shelves is pretty significant. And staying active needs you to be motivated and passionate - if you're not that bothered about a day of easy classics then soon enough you'll stop doing it.
I'm sure also that remaining active and engaged with one's passions (and staying ambitious and driven about it) must help to maintain mental health. I bet there's a correlation between people who keep up their hobbies at the highest level into retirement and those who remain positive figures in their families and keep active in professional and voluntary roles.
Most importantly, though, there is an incalculable social benefit from people doing the thing they love with intensity and commitment. The people I look to for wisdom, advice and mentoring are those who have the benefit of a long life well lived, but who have continued to engage with the world in a way that is positive, intense and heartfelt. Folks in their 70s and 80s could justifiably become either cynical or out of touch, but those who continue to meet new people and do the things that enthuse them will tend to be realistic and encouraging sources of advice. For some people, it might mean hoovering up novels and attending literary festivals. For others it's woodwork. For some its sport climbing, fell-running or audax. I've met so many people like this, and seen the charisma and insight that they offer to others, that I think the world is richer in every sense for their presence.
I'm not sure you can measure the economic benefit of all of that, though if you ever could I bet it would be substantial. In any case, the value in making the world a more fun, varied and interesting place is inestimable. So if you're 'getting on' (and only you can be the judge), then do what you like. If that means climbing until you start falling to bits, then I think you've given something to society rather than taken it away.
10
In reply to Wiley Coyote:
I'm 58, and although I can't quite climb at the grades of my youth anymore - primarily because of reduced flexibility in the old joints and tendons (especially knees, hips and elbows) - I'm going to keep on getting out and enjoying climbing as hard as I can, irrespective of possible injuries, until they put me in a box.
In fact I can't think of a better way of passing off this mortal coil, than on top of a beautiful alpine peak, in Mrs Goucho's arms.
But until then, I reckon I've still got some big adventures and great routes to look forward too
> Even though we are members of the bus pass generation, I and the people I climb with still keep trying to push ourselves albeit performing well below our youthful peak. These days this usually involves hurling ourselves at overly-steep limestone and clipping bolts. The exercise may be good for us but unfortunately at any one time at least one of us, and often more, is having some kind of medical treatment ranging from a bit physio to full blown operations on damaged, ligaments, tendons or knackered joints as yet another body part collapses under the strain. So is it a case of 'Good for them' for keeping active or are people like us silly old fools who need to grow old gracefully and sedttle for some easy classics instead of wasting valuable NHS resources for what is really just very elaborate self harming?
I'm 58, and although I can't quite climb at the grades of my youth anymore - primarily because of reduced flexibility in the old joints and tendons (especially knees, hips and elbows) - I'm going to keep on getting out and enjoying climbing as hard as I can, irrespective of possible injuries, until they put me in a box.
In fact I can't think of a better way of passing off this mortal coil, than on top of a beautiful alpine peak, in Mrs Goucho's arms.
But until then, I reckon I've still got some big adventures and great routes to look forward too
Post edited at 12:30
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In reply to Wiley Coyote: I was thinking about this on the way to work this morning as I'm near 50 and having more fun than ever. But I don't think it's dying that I'm bothered about, but running out of living. I don't have time to get old!
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In reply to Wiley Coyote:
Balls to growing old gracefully.
If you loving getting out climbing then that is all that matters, do it for as long as you can.
My partner sails and there are a few blokes in there 70's and old still racing and no one bat an eye lid.
Balls to growing old gracefully.
If you loving getting out climbing then that is all that matters, do it for as long as you can.
My partner sails and there are a few blokes in there 70's and old still racing and no one bat an eye lid.
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In reply to Wiley Coyote:
My mentor is 65,although he's not climbing e5 any more and struggles on the walk off he's my favourite climbing partner,just watching him come alive on the rock is inspiring.i owe him a lot and it'll be a sad day when he hangs up his boots.keep going the young uns need you.
My mentor is 65,although he's not climbing e5 any more and struggles on the walk off he's my favourite climbing partner,just watching him come alive on the rock is inspiring.i owe him a lot and it'll be a sad day when he hangs up his boots.keep going the young uns need you.
In reply to Wiley Coyote:
Everybody regardless of age is bound to injure themselves through sport. My Mum did something to her knee a few years ago training for a charity walking event and phoned to just tell me that she had to have a scan on it like footballers do when they injure their knee! She's in her 50s, she cycles and though that came later in her life in her 50s, it's better late than not at all. She's not a climber but she is coming white water rafting with me, her idea not mine. I think it's great she at least makes a go of being active. I certainly don't intend on having to give up on climbing just because I'm deemed a bit past it; I quite like the idea of being old and still climbing.
Keep climbing - as so many others have said there are lot of people who are sedentary and suffer as a consequence. Injures will happen more and take more time to recover from but you just need to listen and pay attention to your body to what it can take and is capable of to either avoid or deal with injury. If somebody is fit and healthy I would expect they'd be in a better position to deal with the injury than somebody who is sedentary and gets the same injury.
As well as that there are the social aspects that hamsforlegs mentioned. I didn't think climbing would be quite so sociable when I began.
Everybody regardless of age is bound to injure themselves through sport. My Mum did something to her knee a few years ago training for a charity walking event and phoned to just tell me that she had to have a scan on it like footballers do when they injure their knee! She's in her 50s, she cycles and though that came later in her life in her 50s, it's better late than not at all. She's not a climber but she is coming white water rafting with me, her idea not mine. I think it's great she at least makes a go of being active. I certainly don't intend on having to give up on climbing just because I'm deemed a bit past it; I quite like the idea of being old and still climbing.
Keep climbing - as so many others have said there are lot of people who are sedentary and suffer as a consequence. Injures will happen more and take more time to recover from but you just need to listen and pay attention to your body to what it can take and is capable of to either avoid or deal with injury. If somebody is fit and healthy I would expect they'd be in a better position to deal with the injury than somebody who is sedentary and gets the same injury.
As well as that there are the social aspects that hamsforlegs mentioned. I didn't think climbing would be quite so sociable when I began.
In reply to Wiley Coyote:
A broken leg, two knee operations and shoulder surgery so far and though very grateful for the NHS I don't feel guilty. I am now 60 and can't climb the routes that I could in my prime but still loving it. Just back from a bouldering and soloing session on the Grit and was out yesterday clipping bolts.
A broken leg, two knee operations and shoulder surgery so far and though very grateful for the NHS I don't feel guilty. I am now 60 and can't climb the routes that I could in my prime but still loving it. Just back from a bouldering and soloing session on the Grit and was out yesterday clipping bolts.
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In reply to GridNorth:
I am afraid that when you are in your ninth decade circumstances may dictate stopping even if you are in good health. A friend took me up one of the Aiguilles Rouges routes the other day and the final pitch which i liked leading only two or three years ago was painful as a second. I did not enjoy the experience and it was confirmed the next day at Valorcine when I couldn't do the first pitch.
The precursor signs are when people smile at you kindly, offer their seats and finally you start accepting. In the mountains it was when someone unknown offered to carry my skis down the steps at the Grands Montets. I still love skiing off piste but I find now I get nervous about that Bergschrund slope and won't go down the Face. And your balance isn't quite what it used to be.It's ok on the rock but the way down! Even on a hill walk a couple of years ago I opened up my leg to the bone. And you even find yourself stumbling in the street and people rushing to help. Oh dear. And of course stiffness. Despite injections the knees won't really bend and you can't step up. So you even try the children's circuits at Bleau. But one forgets kids are supple and you aren't. And then all your old climbing chums drop by the wayside and you have no one to go out with or to back you up bouldering. But until all that happens, keep going!
I am afraid that when you are in your ninth decade circumstances may dictate stopping even if you are in good health. A friend took me up one of the Aiguilles Rouges routes the other day and the final pitch which i liked leading only two or three years ago was painful as a second. I did not enjoy the experience and it was confirmed the next day at Valorcine when I couldn't do the first pitch.
The precursor signs are when people smile at you kindly, offer their seats and finally you start accepting. In the mountains it was when someone unknown offered to carry my skis down the steps at the Grands Montets. I still love skiing off piste but I find now I get nervous about that Bergschrund slope and won't go down the Face. And your balance isn't quite what it used to be.It's ok on the rock but the way down! Even on a hill walk a couple of years ago I opened up my leg to the bone. And you even find yourself stumbling in the street and people rushing to help. Oh dear. And of course stiffness. Despite injections the knees won't really bend and you can't step up. So you even try the children's circuits at Bleau. But one forgets kids are supple and you aren't. And then all your old climbing chums drop by the wayside and you have no one to go out with or to back you up bouldering. But until all that happens, keep going!
10
In reply to Wiley Coyote:
As my father, a passionate cyclist up to his dying day, was wont to observe "Better wear out than rust out".
As my father, a passionate cyclist up to his dying day, was wont to observe "Better wear out than rust out".
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In reply to Wiley Coyote:
Having made it to seventy a coupla weeks ago, I feel qualified to comment. I've been exceptionally lucky with injuries but have one I'm dealing with at the moment - torn shoulder tendon. It's hard to tell which part of my discomfort is the injury and which is the arthritis I've had for 5 years but the good ole NHS has been a brick about it. Instead of writing me off as a silly old fool who's too old to have much use for shoulders anyway I've had all the help they might have given, and with very little delay. All of which I consider my due, having made the required contributions throughout a working career of 45 years, so no , no guilt at using the facilities available, and no intention to deny myself the pleasure I get from the crags, and haven't given up the notion that I'll get back on E1's soon.
Having made it to seventy a coupla weeks ago, I feel qualified to comment. I've been exceptionally lucky with injuries but have one I'm dealing with at the moment - torn shoulder tendon. It's hard to tell which part of my discomfort is the injury and which is the arthritis I've had for 5 years but the good ole NHS has been a brick about it. Instead of writing me off as a silly old fool who's too old to have much use for shoulders anyway I've had all the help they might have given, and with very little delay. All of which I consider my due, having made the required contributions throughout a working career of 45 years, so no , no guilt at using the facilities available, and no intention to deny myself the pleasure I get from the crags, and haven't given up the notion that I'll get back on E1's soon.
2
In reply to Wiley Coyote:
Riccardo Cassin -
"Over the course of three days, 14–16 July, he made the first ascent of the north-east face of Piz Badile in the Val Bregaglia (Bergell), Switzerland in 1937. This route is known today as the Cassin Route or the Via Cassin. He confirmed his extraordinary mountaineering skills 50 years later by climbing this route again at the age of 78."
Just in case anyone missed it; 78 years of age. Cassin died in Piano dei Resinelli, Lecco, on 6 August 2009, aged 100.
Riccardo Cassin -
"Over the course of three days, 14–16 July, he made the first ascent of the north-east face of Piz Badile in the Val Bregaglia (Bergell), Switzerland in 1937. This route is known today as the Cassin Route or the Via Cassin. He confirmed his extraordinary mountaineering skills 50 years later by climbing this route again at the age of 78."
Just in case anyone missed it; 78 years of age. Cassin died in Piano dei Resinelli, Lecco, on 6 August 2009, aged 100.
In reply to barry donovan:
Once upon a time, a youngish guy and an oldish guy were sitting side by side on a plane to somewhere. They got to talking about this and that. The subject of mountaineering came up. It turned out that one had soloed the Walker Spur in winter and the other had done the first ascent. Stevie Haston and Riccardo Cassin.
Mick
Once upon a time, a youngish guy and an oldish guy were sitting side by side on a plane to somewhere. They got to talking about this and that. The subject of mountaineering came up. It turned out that one had soloed the Walker Spur in winter and the other had done the first ascent. Stevie Haston and Riccardo Cassin.
Mick
3
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