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An ex work colleague who never seemed to have relationships which lasted, and always seemed to find something wrong with the nice men she went out with, has found love with another woman and is the happiest I've seen her, and genuinely seems fully at ease.
It brings to mind for me the situation in other countries where lesbians can be 'correctively raped' or shunned by their families, and the attacks on gays and lesbians which occur. It doesn't seem so controversial when seeing two people happy to be with one another.
While hate seeks to control, love only seeks space to exist (or something like that).
Post edited at 15:24
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In reply to Timmd:
That's always good to hear. Oh and however disliked this thread if you've got a problem with people making each other happy you know what you can do.
That's always good to hear. Oh and however disliked this thread if you've got a problem with people making each other happy you know what you can do.
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In reply to Timmd:
Perhaps they have lived a life of frustration having denied their own true sexuality? We can but guess.
> In the spirit of civility, they mustn't be at peace.
Perhaps they have lived a life of frustration having denied their own true sexuality? We can but guess.
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In reply to aln:
I had a really nice meal to night but think of all those people starving in Africa.
> Give you a break from what?
I had a really nice meal to night but think of all those people starving in Africa.
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In reply to Timmd:
That second paragraph's a bit odd and clumsily worded. It doesn't 'seem' non-controversial when you see people happy. It just isn't controversial. And what Indy said. It's weird to see a happy gay couple and think thank god they're not in [country x] being correctively raped.
I'm 99% certain that's why people disliked your post, and that it's absolutely nothing to do with any anti-gay feeling on UKC.
All that said, 1st and 3rd paras are very nice.
That second paragraph's a bit odd and clumsily worded. It doesn't 'seem' non-controversial when you see people happy. It just isn't controversial. And what Indy said. It's weird to see a happy gay couple and think thank god they're not in [country x] being correctively raped.
I'm 99% certain that's why people disliked your post, and that it's absolutely nothing to do with any anti-gay feeling on UKC.
All that said, 1st and 3rd paras are very nice.
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In reply to Donald82:
This is what I wrote, 'the situation in other countries where lesbians can be 'correctively raped' or shunned by their families, and the attacks on gays and lesbians which occur.'
It was a little clumsily worded, it's more an awareness of how things can be in other countries, and how fortunate we are in the UK, I didn't quite think 'Look at them being so happy, good job they're not in Africa being correctively raped'.
From having had a friend who is gay from when I was teenager, and knowing about how homophobes can mutter 'fag' or 'puff' or 'queer' in an undertone for only their target to hear in the street & things, it's just something I'm conscious off, that even in the UK things can still a challenge for anybody who isn't straight & 'normal'. It's probably not the kind of thing the average straight person would have any cause to be aware of in their everyday life, unless they've been present when it's happened or it's been talked about.
A quite joyful thread about same sex marriage in America and posts about how cool or harmless it is got quite a lot of dislikes, but who knows.
Thank you.
> That second paragraph's a bit odd and clumsily worded. It doesn't 'seem' non-controversial when you see people happy. It just isn't controversial. And what Indy said. It's weird to see a happy gay couple and think thank god they're not in [country x] being correctively raped.
This is what I wrote, 'the situation in other countries where lesbians can be 'correctively raped' or shunned by their families, and the attacks on gays and lesbians which occur.'
It was a little clumsily worded, it's more an awareness of how things can be in other countries, and how fortunate we are in the UK, I didn't quite think 'Look at them being so happy, good job they're not in Africa being correctively raped'.
From having had a friend who is gay from when I was teenager, and knowing about how homophobes can mutter 'fag' or 'puff' or 'queer' in an undertone for only their target to hear in the street & things, it's just something I'm conscious off, that even in the UK things can still a challenge for anybody who isn't straight & 'normal'. It's probably not the kind of thing the average straight person would have any cause to be aware of in their everyday life, unless they've been present when it's happened or it's been talked about.
> I'm 99% certain that's why people disliked your post, and that it's absolutely nothing to do with any anti-gay feeling on UKC.
A quite joyful thread about same sex marriage in America and posts about how cool or harmless it is got quite a lot of dislikes, but who knows.
> All that said, 1st and 3rd paras are very nice.
Thank you.
Post edited at 02:02
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In reply to Donald82:
Impossible to know, which is why the 'like'/'dislike' thing is so very crap.
These days there's very little anti-gay feeling expressed on UKC, but just a few years ago (say 5-6) huh-huh-poofters-arse-bandits "humour" was pretty commonplace (it was pretty common for me to ask if someone wanted to say that to me directly). Whether that was really representative of genuine anti-gay feeling is hard to say, probably not most of the time.
But given that people who click 'dislike' aren't expressing anything other than a vague sense of negativity (which could be personal, political or technical, we'll never know), I see no way of guessing the motive.
> I'm 99% certain that's why people disliked your post, and that it's absolutely nothing to do with any anti-gay feeling on UKC.
Impossible to know, which is why the 'like'/'dislike' thing is so very crap.
These days there's very little anti-gay feeling expressed on UKC, but just a few years ago (say 5-6) huh-huh-poofters-arse-bandits "humour" was pretty commonplace (it was pretty common for me to ask if someone wanted to say that to me directly). Whether that was really representative of genuine anti-gay feeling is hard to say, probably not most of the time.
But given that people who click 'dislike' aren't expressing anything other than a vague sense of negativity (which could be personal, political or technical, we'll never know), I see no way of guessing the motive.
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In reply to Timmd: that's a very nice post. I am always glad to see someone find happiness. I am going to take and recycle your paragraph 3 if you don't mind for a friend who seems rather similar to yours.
Somebody actively disliked this? Good grief.
Somebody actively disliked this? Good grief.
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In reply to Jon Stewart:
The dislike button is shite.
I think after watching Strictly last night, and seeing the new Russian bloke Gleb, I've realised I'm a bit gay...
The dislike button is shite.
I think after watching Strictly last night, and seeing the new Russian bloke Gleb, I've realised I'm a bit gay...
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In reply to Timmd:
I think I'm a bit ignorant of discrimination in this country. It seems on the whole like everything's OK, but I was taken aback when speaking to somebody who was beaten up by strangers who got out of a car to do so. As far as he can imagine, the only reason could be that he's gay, if there was any kind of reason to it. I'm not sure how they might have known this, I've never seen him in heels, perhaps he was with somebody at the time. I did find this news very shocking at the time; I hadn't really considered that this sort of thing actually goes on, not here and now.
The same person lives with his partner in a two-bedroom flat so as not to give anything away to his family.
I also know a woman who has Christmas abroad on account of her family won't have her.
This world can get you down if you think about it enough, can't it?
I think I'm a bit ignorant of discrimination in this country. It seems on the whole like everything's OK, but I was taken aback when speaking to somebody who was beaten up by strangers who got out of a car to do so. As far as he can imagine, the only reason could be that he's gay, if there was any kind of reason to it. I'm not sure how they might have known this, I've never seen him in heels, perhaps he was with somebody at the time. I did find this news very shocking at the time; I hadn't really considered that this sort of thing actually goes on, not here and now.
The same person lives with his partner in a two-bedroom flat so as not to give anything away to his family.
I also know a woman who has Christmas abroad on account of her family won't have her.
This world can get you down if you think about it enough, can't it?
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In reply to Timarzi:
The world can get you down if you think about it in a certain way.
I had a google in response to you wondering whether song things go on in the present day, there's some interesting comments in the 'comments' section...
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/holding-hands-with-another-man-...
The world can get you down if you think about it in a certain way.
I had a google in response to you wondering whether song things go on in the present day, there's some interesting comments in the 'comments' section...
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/holding-hands-with-another-man-...
In reply to Timmd:
We have two same-sex couples, one male and one female, living within a few doors of us and as far as I can see they are all very contented beyong the normal grousing and bickering that you get from people in their fifties! I'm very pleased that they live happily together and would be pleased if they decided to formalise their relationships in marriage. What bothers me is indiscretion and promiscuity in a relationship, homo or hetero.
We have two same-sex couples, one male and one female, living within a few doors of us and as far as I can see they are all very contented beyong the normal grousing and bickering that you get from people in their fifties! I'm very pleased that they live happily together and would be pleased if they decided to formalise their relationships in marriage. What bothers me is indiscretion and promiscuity in a relationship, homo or hetero.
Post edited at 08:38
In reply to Timmd:
I actually discussed this with a few people, and views seemed to be split by age. Older people tended to see it as, I think, you do. And younger people saw it as 'de-normalising' being gay. I think this reflects a change in attitudes. More younger people see being gay as totally normal.
Of course, amongst the young an old there's plenty of homophobes and what happens in Africa is awful, it just there's a time and a place for raising awareness.
I actually discussed this with a few people, and views seemed to be split by age. Older people tended to see it as, I think, you do. And younger people saw it as 'de-normalising' being gay. I think this reflects a change in attitudes. More younger people see being gay as totally normal.
Of course, amongst the young an old there's plenty of homophobes and what happens in Africa is awful, it just there's a time and a place for raising awareness.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
This is my two step process for guessing the motives.
Step one - think of possible reasons for disliking post.
Step two - consider which is most likely
> But given that people who click 'dislike' aren't expressing anything other than a vague sense of negativity (which could be personal, political or technical, we'll never know), I see no way of guessing the motive.
This is my two step process for guessing the motives.
Step one - think of possible reasons for disliking post.
Step two - consider which is most likely
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In reply to Donald82:
What do you by mean see it as I do?
> I actually discussed this with a few people, and views seemed to be split by age. Older people tended to see it as, I think, you do. And younger people saw it as 'de-normalising' being gay. I think this reflects a change in attitudes. More younger people see being gay as totally normal.
What do you by mean see it as I do?
Post edited at 18:19
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In reply to Timmd:
Seeing your third paragraph as an okay thing to say in this context, just a bit clumsily worded.
Seeing your third paragraph as an okay thing to say in this context, just a bit clumsily worded.
In reply to Donald82:
Why wouldn't the third paragraph (or third bit of writing) be okay in some other context?
I'm rather confused.
> Seeing your third paragraph as an okay thing to say in this context, just a bit clumsily worded.
Why wouldn't the third paragraph (or third bit of writing) be okay in some other context?
I'm rather confused.
Post edited at 14:31
In reply to Timmd:
I'm saying it's not really okay in the context of telling a nice story about a happy gay couple. And that I understood you to think it was okay in this context.
I'm saying it's not really okay in the context of telling a nice story about a happy gay couple. And that I understood you to think it was okay in this context.
In reply to Timarzi:
The worlds a funny place,I still think it's weird that your entire family can turn their backs on you because of essentially what the person your attracted to has between their legs.coming from a small northern town I can say homophobia is alive and kicking and tbh most of the gay guys I know moved away as soon as they could.lesbians seem to be more excepted though, wonder why ???
> The same person lives with his partner in a two-bedroom flat so as not to give anything away to his family.
> I also know a woman who has Christmas abroad on account of her family won't have her.
> This world can get you down if you think about it enough, can't it?
The worlds a funny place,I still think it's weird that your entire family can turn their backs on you because of essentially what the person your attracted to has between their legs.coming from a small northern town I can say homophobia is alive and kicking and tbh most of the gay guys I know moved away as soon as they could.lesbians seem to be more excepted though, wonder why ???
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In reply to Donald82:
''While hate seeks to control, love only seeks space to exist (or something like that).''
What? I'm even more lost, how could the above not be okay?
> I'm saying it's not really okay in the context of telling a nice story about a happy gay couple. And that I understood you to think it was okay in this context.
''While hate seeks to control, love only seeks space to exist (or something like that).''
What? I'm even more lost, how could the above not be okay?
Post edited at 16:27
In reply to Timmd:
Maybe a lesson in not to take other peoples unhappiness so seriously. Maybe not even our own?
D
Maybe a lesson in not to take other peoples unhappiness so seriously. Maybe not even our own?
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In reply to Dauphin:
No, the crapness in other parts of the world should always bother us, I reckon, but not bother us all of the time, we're the lucky ones who can make a fuss.
I get what you mean though.
> Maybe a lesson in not to take other peoples unhappiness so seriously. Maybe not even our own?
>
> D
No, the crapness in other parts of the world should always bother us, I reckon, but not bother us all of the time, we're the lucky ones who can make a fuss.
I get what you mean though.
Post edited at 00:26
In reply to Timarzi:
unfortunately it's not only gay people who have a 'gaydar', apparently the more homophobic somebody is the better they are at spotting if another person is gay, so your friend could have just been unlucky.
> I think I'm a bit ignorant of discrimination in this country. It seems on the whole like everything's OK, but I was taken aback when speaking to somebody who was beaten up by strangers who got out of a car to do so. As far as he can imagine, the only reason could be that he's gay, if there was any kind of reason to it. I'm not sure how they might have known this, I've never seen him in heels, perhaps he was with somebody at the time. I did find this news very shocking at the time; I hadn't really considered that this sort of thing actually goes on, not here and now.
unfortunately it's not only gay people who have a 'gaydar', apparently the more homophobic somebody is the better they are at spotting if another person is gay, so your friend could have just been unlucky.
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In reply to Wsdconst:
I was wondering why, then the feminist concept of the patriarchy has just popped into my head. If it's true that we do live in one, that could explain why men get more of a hard time, to do with defined gender roles and accepted norms? Since everything is interlinked, to do with being human.
Though it's only a seedling thought...
> The worlds a funny place,I still think it's weird that your entire family can turn their backs on you because of essentially what the person your attracted to has between their legs.coming from a small northern town I can say homophobia is alive and kicking and tbh most of the gay guys I know moved away as soon as they could.lesbians seem to be more excepted though, wonder why ???
I was wondering why, then the feminist concept of the patriarchy has just popped into my head. If it's true that we do live in one, that could explain why men get more of a hard time, to do with defined gender roles and accepted norms? Since everything is interlinked, to do with being human.
Though it's only a seedling thought...
Post edited at 00:51
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In reply to Timmd:
My experience is that the most extreme homophobes are those who are gay and in denial.
My experience is that the most extreme homophobes are those who are gay and in denial.
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In reply to Wsdconst:
I think a lot of places like that are more matriarchal than patriarchal. You have the hard men on an estate, but look a bit deeper, and its usually the mums in charge. Somewhere there is a grandmother with sons and grandsons, and what she says is what happens.
I think a lot of places like that are more matriarchal than patriarchal. You have the hard men on an estate, but look a bit deeper, and its usually the mums in charge. Somewhere there is a grandmother with sons and grandsons, and what she says is what happens.
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In reply to Timmd:
Yeah, the effects of patriarchy aren't limited to women at all. Men for sure get a hard time under it, just in quite a different way, exactly in some of the ways you suggest.
Yeah, the effects of patriarchy aren't limited to women at all. Men for sure get a hard time under it, just in quite a different way, exactly in some of the ways you suggest.
In reply to Timmd:
Maybe its because it is mainly men that display homophobic behaviour and in porn there is nothing wrong with a lesbian scene.
> If it's true that we do live in one, that could explain why men get more of a hard time,
Maybe its because it is mainly men that display homophobic behaviour and in porn there is nothing wrong with a lesbian scene.
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In reply to marsbar:
It was your comment that "My experience is that the most extreme homophobes are those who are gay and in denial."
What experience? Did you conduct a study? How do you know they're gay if they're in denial?
It was your comment that "My experience is that the most extreme homophobes are those who are gay and in denial."
What experience? Did you conduct a study? How do you know they're gay if they're in denial?
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In reply to Clinger:
My experience was people I had known over a number of years who were homophobic and then came out later in life. 3 of them. According to a gay neighbour its not uncommon.
My experience was people I had known over a number of years who were homophobic and then came out later in life. 3 of them. According to a gay neighbour its not uncommon.
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In reply to marsbar:
A study was carried out on two groups of men, and the men who were openly homophobic turned out to be the ones who were turned on by gay porn, all of the men had strain gauges fitted to their genitalia to measure arousal.
I gather that due to not having the same number in each group, and possibly something else, it doesn't fit with scientific best practice, but the gist of the study comes across, and mirrors what's found in every day life.
> My experience was people I had known over a number of years who were homophobic and then came out later in life. 3 of them. According to a gay neighbour its not uncommon.
A study was carried out on two groups of men, and the men who were openly homophobic turned out to be the ones who were turned on by gay porn, all of the men had strain gauges fitted to their genitalia to measure arousal.
I gather that due to not having the same number in each group, and possibly something else, it doesn't fit with scientific best practice, but the gist of the study comes across, and mirrors what's found in every day life.
Post edited at 15:55
In reply to Timmd:
Like.... WTF!
So if some Religious group came up with a study that "doesn't fit with scientific best practice" but gives a gist that homosexuals are mentally ill we should all nod and say "Yup thought so!"
> it doesn't fit with scientific best practice, but the gist of the study comes across,
Like.... WTF!
So if some Religious group came up with a study that "doesn't fit with scientific best practice" but gives a gist that homosexuals are mentally ill we should all nod and say "Yup thought so!"
Post edited at 16:09
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