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I have just had a survey done on my house for its sale. It was a shock, the surveyor noted the possibility of asbestos in the artex. The house is around 1995/6, which predates changes in the regs in 1998. Does anyone have a view on the scale of the problem, I would have thought it would have affected many properties, but the estate agent say they have only 4 examples since January 2015.
In reply to kipper12:
He has to note the 'possibility'.
You could get it tested.
In any case, it's not a problem unless you start drilling into it or sanding it off.
Even if you test it and it is asbestos you can just get a plasterer to skim over it.
He has to note the 'possibility'.
You could get it tested.
In any case, it's not a problem unless you start drilling into it or sanding it off.
Even if you test it and it is asbestos you can just get a plasterer to skim over it.
In reply to kipper12:
What does his noting of the possibility mean for you? Is it going to realistically affect the sale of your house? I used to work in the building game and it's "possibly" bloody everywhere!
What does his noting of the possibility mean for you? Is it going to realistically affect the sale of your house? I used to work in the building game and it's "possibly" bloody everywhere!
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In reply to ScottTalbot:
Apparently it could be a show stopper. The chat I had with estate agent was along the lines of it will have to be tested, and if positive, it's either get it removed or no sale. I understand the risks only too well, I am a a toxicologist working for hse, so know that there is no real risk, but try telling someone who doesn't understand.
Apparently it could be a show stopper. The chat I had with estate agent was along the lines of it will have to be tested, and if positive, it's either get it removed or no sale. I understand the risks only too well, I am a a toxicologist working for hse, so know that there is no real risk, but try telling someone who doesn't understand.
In reply to ScottTalbot:
I agree with you that it's everywhere, I can only have it tested and cross my fingers
I agree with you that it's everywhere, I can only have it tested and cross my fingers
In reply to kipper12:
Surprised the estate agency would really care.
Would have thought it would be more in the realm of the mortgage lender.
Surprised the estate agency would really care.
Would have thought it would be more in the realm of the mortgage lender.
In reply to kipper12:
From what I can find and remember, asbestos was well known to be hazardous in the 1990s. If it was early 1980s or before then you would need to worry.
http://www.artexltd.com/sustainability/health-and-safety/artex-textured-fin...
From what I can find and remember, asbestos was well known to be hazardous in the 1990s. If it was early 1980s or before then you would need to worry.
http://www.artexltd.com/sustainability/health-and-safety/artex-textured-fin...
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In reply to DancingOnRock:
As a buyer would you do that or move on to the next ad on rightmove?
> Surely it's down to the buyer to get a further test?
As a buyer would you do that or move on to the next ad on rightmove?
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In reply to elsewhere:
Depends on whether I wanted the house or not but essentially if the buyer is worried about asbestos then they need to investigate as its their survey that has highlighted further investigation might be necessary. In any case it presents no danger.
This is a good thread to read. Especially the conclusion:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1562205
> As a buyer would you do that or move on to the next ad on rightmove?
Depends on whether I wanted the house or not but essentially if the buyer is worried about asbestos then they need to investigate as its their survey that has highlighted further investigation might be necessary. In any case it presents no danger.
This is a good thread to read. Especially the conclusion:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1562205
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In reply to DancingOnRock:
Shame he dropped the price though - lender was happy to go ahead just some buyers try it on.
Shame he dropped the price though - lender was happy to go ahead just some buyers try it on.
In reply to summo:
Ah, well the survay I had done in 2000 didn't mention asbestos at all (one wonders whether it should have). I have spoken to our asbestos teram, and apparently the asbestos regs were revised in 1998 and this revision prohibited use of any form of asbestos in artex. Prior to this revision, though we knew it was hazardous, there was no prohibition on heh use of the least concerning form of asbestos
Ah, well the survay I had done in 2000 didn't mention asbestos at all (one wonders whether it should have). I have spoken to our asbestos teram, and apparently the asbestos regs were revised in 1998 and this revision prohibited use of any form of asbestos in artex. Prior to this revision, though we knew it was hazardous, there was no prohibition on heh use of the least concerning form of asbestos
In reply to kipper12:
not to good, way too long ago to give you any come back there then.
2 options; skim over it, new agent / survey, say nothing OR test it and deal as you find.
not to good, way too long ago to give you any come back there then.
2 options; skim over it, new agent / survey, say nothing OR test it and deal as you find.
In reply to kipper12:
It's 'possibly' in pretty much every skimmed ceiling in pre 98 houses (and lots of other places within them), the only reason he hasn't seen much of it (Artex) recently is it's long out of fashion and has been covered up in most houses.
jk
It's 'possibly' in pretty much every skimmed ceiling in pre 98 houses (and lots of other places within them), the only reason he hasn't seen much of it (Artex) recently is it's long out of fashion and has been covered up in most houses.
jk
In reply to summo:
My first step is to go the testing route, and take it from there, but I must admit, Im dreading the result.
My first step is to go the testing route, and take it from there, but I must admit, Im dreading the result.
In reply to marsbar:
The dangers of asbestos were known much earlier than the '90s. I can remember starting in the shipbuilding industry in '79 and being lectured to death on the subject. I have just had a guy come to take a look at repairing the artex in my mothers hall, as a beside after the ceiling came down due to a plumbers carp bathroom job above, he mentioned the possibility of asbestos and I would guesstimate that artexing had been done in the '80s.
On a more personal note my father died 18 years ago of mesothelioma from exposure to the stuff, in the 40s, 50s & 60s so it really can be a serious issue.
As regards the house buying issue the people we bought our current house from pulled out of buying a property due to the presence (or possibility) of asbestos. It depends perhaps on the age of the buyers and whether they've known people affected or live in an area where there have been several deaths, i.e. due to historic working practices in say the shipbuilding industry, which was a main employer in the area. On this basis they might not just be trying it on.
> From what I can find and remember, asbestos was well known to be hazardous in the 1990s. If it was early 1980s or before then you would need to worry.
The dangers of asbestos were known much earlier than the '90s. I can remember starting in the shipbuilding industry in '79 and being lectured to death on the subject. I have just had a guy come to take a look at repairing the artex in my mothers hall, as a beside after the ceiling came down due to a plumbers carp bathroom job above, he mentioned the possibility of asbestos and I would guesstimate that artexing had been done in the '80s.
On a more personal note my father died 18 years ago of mesothelioma from exposure to the stuff, in the 40s, 50s & 60s so it really can be a serious issue.
As regards the house buying issue the people we bought our current house from pulled out of buying a property due to the presence (or possibility) of asbestos. It depends perhaps on the age of the buyers and whether they've known people affected or live in an area where there have been several deaths, i.e. due to historic working practices in say the shipbuilding industry, which was a main employer in the area. On this basis they might not just be trying it on.
In reply to kipper12:
You should be fine. Artex hasn't contained asbestos since the mid-80s
(You'll have to get a sample tested in any event, now the surveyor has raised the sprectre!)
You should be fine. Artex hasn't contained asbestos since the mid-80s
(You'll have to get a sample tested in any event, now the surveyor has raised the sprectre!)
Post edited at 15:56
In reply to kipper12:
My bet is that the buyer is looking for excuses to knock a bit off the price. I seriously doubt there would be asbestos Artex of this age although it always surprises me how long it too for asbestos to be banned considering there were records of it's health effects as far back as the turn of the 1900s.
My bet is that the buyer is looking for excuses to knock a bit off the price. I seriously doubt there would be asbestos Artex of this age although it always surprises me how long it too for asbestos to be banned considering there were records of it's health effects as far back as the turn of the 1900s.
In reply to gethin_allen:
I think this (sadly) is the way we tend to respond to major health and environmental concerns, much too slowly.
I think this (sadly) is the way we tend to respond to major health and environmental concerns, much too slowly.
In reply to kipper12:
Same thing now with MDF.. It's been banned in Australia for years, but we're still using it here!
> I think this (sadly) is the way we tend to respond to major health and environmental concerns, much too slowly.
Same thing now with MDF.. It's been banned in Australia for years, but we're still using it here!
In reply to kipper12:
My 1970 house has almost certainly got asbestos in the artex. As I'm not taking a sander to it, it doesn't matter. Paint over the top of it to be sure it is nicely secured and stop worrying. If it annoys you, have it skimmed rather than sanding it.
Most domestic asbestos is of very little concern provided it's left alone.
My 1970 house has almost certainly got asbestos in the artex. As I'm not taking a sander to it, it doesn't matter. Paint over the top of it to be sure it is nicely secured and stop worrying. If it annoys you, have it skimmed rather than sanding it.
Most domestic asbestos is of very little concern provided it's left alone.
In reply to kipper12:
Who's saying that, the buyer? If you can take the slight risk of them pulling out, call their bluff. It's all over the place in most houses, and it really isn't a problem if managed properly. If it's the agent, find a new one, they are meant to be working for you, not the other way round.
You really *do not* need to get it tested nor removed.
By the way, why have you had a survey done for the *sale*? You appear to be in England. In England, the surveys are the responsibility of the buyer, so you needn't have wasted your money.
Edit: Do you just mean a valuation?
Who's saying that, the buyer? If you can take the slight risk of them pulling out, call their bluff. It's all over the place in most houses, and it really isn't a problem if managed properly. If it's the agent, find a new one, they are meant to be working for you, not the other way round.
You really *do not* need to get it tested nor removed.
By the way, why have you had a survey done for the *sale*? You appear to be in England. In England, the surveys are the responsibility of the buyer, so you needn't have wasted your money.
Edit: Do you just mean a valuation?
Post edited at 22:35
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In reply to kipper12:
Why even bother spending your money? The English house sale process does not require you to do *anything whatsoever* about that kind of issue. And any sensible buyer won't care. It is only a problem if you start taking a sander to it.
Why even bother spending your money? The English house sale process does not require you to do *anything whatsoever* about that kind of issue. And any sensible buyer won't care. It is only a problem if you start taking a sander to it.
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In reply to ScottTalbot:
MDF is nasty stuff. It makes my throat close up when I spend any length of time working with it.
OTOH, I've got laminate throughout my downstairs (covering up what very much appear to be, erm, asbestos resin tiles, which are also not a concern provided they are not breaking up) and it hasn't in and of itself caused any issues now it's installed.
MDF is nasty stuff. It makes my throat close up when I spend any length of time working with it.
OTOH, I've got laminate throughout my downstairs (covering up what very much appear to be, erm, asbestos resin tiles, which are also not a concern provided they are not breaking up) and it hasn't in and of itself caused any issues now it's installed.
In reply to blurty:
That's my recollection too. Asbestos in roofing slates was one of the most lingering uses of the stuff. Man made slates stopped containing asbestos during the mid to late 80s. Can't recall for sure but I would have thought artex went through its clean up around the same time? Test of a single sample should only cost about £100 at most.
> You should be fine. Artex hasn't contained asbestos since the mid-80s
> (You'll have to get a sample tested in any event, now the surveyor has raised the sprectre!)
That's my recollection too. Asbestos in roofing slates was one of the most lingering uses of the stuff. Man made slates stopped containing asbestos during the mid to late 80s. Can't recall for sure but I would have thought artex went through its clean up around the same time? Test of a single sample should only cost about £100 at most.
In reply to Wainers44:
You are right that Artex from Artex Ltd hasn't contained asbestos since the early 80's. However, until the asbestos regs tightened around 1998 there is the slight possability that other similar products may contain chrysotile asbestos.
I am reasonably relaxed about it given the helpful responses on here. I have a test lined up tomorrow, and Ill know the same day. The worst case scenario is a trace detction (1-2 fibres), which they are legally obliged to report, as a trace detection.
Im only going to take a couple of samples, as this should limit the chances of a positive. Ill leave it to the prospective buyers to challenge a negative based on limited sampling.
You are right that Artex from Artex Ltd hasn't contained asbestos since the early 80's. However, until the asbestos regs tightened around 1998 there is the slight possability that other similar products may contain chrysotile asbestos.
I am reasonably relaxed about it given the helpful responses on here. I have a test lined up tomorrow, and Ill know the same day. The worst case scenario is a trace detction (1-2 fibres), which they are legally obliged to report, as a trace detection.
Im only going to take a couple of samples, as this should limit the chances of a positive. Ill leave it to the prospective buyers to challenge a negative based on limited sampling.
In reply to DancingOnRock:
Do you not just wet Artex to remove it?
If so, then there is no dust to worry about , so just wet it and scrape it off.
> (In reply to kipper12)
>
>
> Even if you test it and it is asbestos you can just get a plasterer to skim over it.
>
>
> Even if you test it and it is asbestos you can just get a plasterer to skim over it.
Do you not just wet Artex to remove it?
If so, then there is no dust to worry about , so just wet it and scrape it off.
In reply to Jim C:
Looks like you can steam it off.
But then you need to double bag it and take it to your local waste site in your car. Legally they have to take it but I suspect you'll have to fill in a load of forms.
Looks like you can steam it off.
But then you need to double bag it and take it to your local waste site in your car. Legally they have to take it but I suspect you'll have to fill in a load of forms.
In reply to kipper12:
Hi all, Ive just got test results back, and I have 3/3 non detections. All clear, thanks again it was a particularly worrying period, and I must say input from the UKC collective was helpful
Hi all, Ive just got test results back, and I have 3/3 non detections. All clear, thanks again it was a particularly worrying period, and I must say input from the UKC collective was helpful
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In reply to kipper12:
Good news.
We just had a survey on our place as a condition of a remortgage. The surveyor noted cracks at the front of the house (which were there when we bought the place in 1999 and didn't cause concern on the survey done then). Unfortunately he decided that these cracks were "evidence of structural movement " so I've had to fork out £600 for a structural engineer to confirm they are not a concern.
So - first surveyor's incompetence has caused me weeks of delay and £600. Apparently I have to just suck it up - not best pleased!
Luckily he didn't comment on the artex on the bedroom ceilings.
Good news.
We just had a survey on our place as a condition of a remortgage. The surveyor noted cracks at the front of the house (which were there when we bought the place in 1999 and didn't cause concern on the survey done then). Unfortunately he decided that these cracks were "evidence of structural movement " so I've had to fork out £600 for a structural engineer to confirm they are not a concern.
So - first surveyor's incompetence has caused me weeks of delay and £600. Apparently I have to just suck it up - not best pleased!
Luckily he didn't comment on the artex on the bedroom ceilings.
In reply to kipper12:
I might be being dim here, but why did you survey your own house? It's caveat emptor, isn't it?
Given the advice above, highly unlikely to be a problem. I'd show that evidence to the estate agent and get them to pipe down. If they won't, I'd change agents.
Removal of artex is absolutely horrible whatever the age. Plaster over.
I might be being dim here, but why did you survey your own house? It's caveat emptor, isn't it?
Given the advice above, highly unlikely to be a problem. I'd show that evidence to the estate agent and get them to pipe down. If they won't, I'd change agents.
Removal of artex is absolutely horrible whatever the age. Plaster over.
In reply to kipper12:
From my background in civil engineering, I'm pretty sure they stopped using asbestos in artex in 1978.
From my background in civil engineering, I'm pretty sure they stopped using asbestos in artex in 1978.
In reply to JJL:
I didn't do. Y own survey, it was the buyers, I just responded by getting my own asbestos test done. I preferred to find a lab myself rather than the guys they recommended.
I didn't do. Y own survey, it was the buyers, I just responded by getting my own asbestos test done. I preferred to find a lab myself rather than the guys they recommended.
In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:
Apparently, from an earlier post Artex ltd stopped using asbestos in their branded products around 84. However, the asbestos regs were on,y changed in 98 to prohibit chrysotile in uses such as generic artex. Therefore there is a theoretical possibility that there may be chrysotile in generic artex until 98. The risk to people living there is almost non existent, unless you start prodding it. The remaining concerns is for workmen, such as plumbers etc. it is this group who are now experiencing the biggest increase in mesothelioma, and why HSE is running campaigns to raise awareness.
Apparently, from an earlier post Artex ltd stopped using asbestos in their branded products around 84. However, the asbestos regs were on,y changed in 98 to prohibit chrysotile in uses such as generic artex. Therefore there is a theoretical possibility that there may be chrysotile in generic artex until 98. The risk to people living there is almost non existent, unless you start prodding it. The remaining concerns is for workmen, such as plumbers etc. it is this group who are now experiencing the biggest increase in mesothelioma, and why HSE is running campaigns to raise awareness.
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