UKC

Can climbing be linked to academic achievement.

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Me 10 Sep 2015
Speaking to a mate this evening, he asked this very question.

He has been asked to put forward evidence based reasoning showing how spending money on providing primary school pupils with climbing, outside of mainstream curriculum P.E., impacts on academic achievement in the classroom.

If anyone knows of any studies that have been made that can be drawn on, or has personal experience of this subject, it would be good to hear your views.

Steve
 Philip 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:
Nearly every climber I know has at least one Oxford degree. In fact, possibly every proper climber I know.

There's 1 data point.

PS I mean "know" as in friends, not simply acknowledge their existence.
Post edited at 20:55
1
 Mostin3 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:

I achieved bugger all acedemically because I was climbing too much, so it can definitely be linked.
 Philip 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Mostin3:
There you go, take an average of those two responses.
Post edited at 20:56
 Jon Stewart 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:

You need search academic articles using an appropriate search engine if you want to find studies. Google Scholar isn't a bad start.

If you think about it, it's very hard to work out whether there is a causal link between people going climbing as youngsters and getting good grades. You'd have to compare groups of people who were otherwise the same apart from the climbing (compared to what - doing nothing? doing other sports?), i.e. you'd have to control for a lot of variables. A statistician (not me) could tell you how feasible that would be. It's much more likely that you'd find a positive correlation, but the reason is that people who get taken out climbing as kids are brought up in a culture that values education and engenders high expectations.

Putting forward evidence-based reasoning for this sounds very much like trying to dig up evidence for something you want to be the case. This is isn't scientific, doesn't get you anywhere near the truth, but it's exactly how policy decisions are made, day in, day out.

I would suggest looking a bit more broadly than trying to demonstrate a direct, causal link. I.e. providing kids with experiences that are really fun, fulfilling, novel and stimulating gets them 'on side', more engaged in school, gets them to see each other (and maybe teachers) in a different light and has a broad positive impact. Which can only help grades in the classroom (but not directly). There should be research out there on something that's comparable, but probably much wider than just climbing. Any attempt to try to show a direct causal link between pounds spent on outdoor ed and league table positions is just going to be manufactured and unconvincing.

Indeed, it's rather sad that people in education are being taught to think in this narrow, linear, fashion; after all, it's kids lives we're talking about, not rows on a spreadsheet.
 JIMBO 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:

I think it might be a link in the other direction... academics make better climbers or at least are more likely to pursue climbing... there seem to be loads of engineers and scientists that climb. Plus in schools the outdoor teachers tend to be from science, maths or DT in my experience.
 Timmd 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:

Exercise has been found to improve cognitive function, I gather, perhaps he could base his reasoning on a broader spread of activities means there's a greater likely hood of finding something which each pupil will take to, meaning that there's greater chance of better results?
 Timmd 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> Indeed, it's rather sad that people in education are being taught to think in this narrow, linear, fashion; after all, it's kids lives we're talking about, not rows on a spreadsheet.

Is it any surprise that UK (or it might be English) school children are amongst the unhappiest?
Post edited at 21:43
 Heike 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:

I have got three degrees, a first degree, an MSc and a Phd. I would have never got a first in my first degree if I would have found out about climbing before my Masters and I only got my Phd after a long delay being to busy climbing. Make of this what you will ....
 mark s 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:

i wasnt a bad climber and got 3 gcses. left school at 16.
In reply to Me: I would have thought they'd ask for an impact assessment myself.

For the kids who found they couldn't defy gravity, at least.

T.
 Goucho 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:

If my academic achievements had been half as good as my climbing achievements, they'd have been twice as good as they were
PamPam 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:

Well the primary school I went to, it was a tiny village one of only just over 100 pupils in total and it wasn't a private school, would take either the primary 4s or 5s to an outdoor adventure centre for a week in the summer holidays. We had a lot of outdoor activities like canoeing, gorge walking, archery, hill walking and, yes, climbing and abseiling for half of the day and an academic session based outdoors for the other half which was science based such as the weather, wildlife, geography and geology. I do remember there being quite a few really smart kids in the year I was in. Not everybody but I do know that it was always looked forward to and everybody had a good time when they got to that year. But then I guess being from a small village where the kids either lived close to or lived out in the countryside we weren't much for being couch potatoes.
 marsbar 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:

It may help with those who are behind. I can't remember the name of the researchers but I will try to find it.
http://theconversation.com/early-motor-skills-may-affect-language-developme...

A general article.
 marsbar 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:

Not the one I was looking for, but may be a start
http://www.psychology.pitt.edu/person/jana-iverson-phd
 marsbar 10 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:

Found it. This lady did some amazing work with primary children focused on movement to improve learning.
http://sallygoddardblythe.co.uk/publications/
Me 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:

Thank you to all that have taken the time to read and reply to this thread.

Steve
 Dave Garnett 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Philip:

> There you go, take an average of those two responses.

It must be true. I did both.
 Dave the Rave 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Me:
What about Whillans? He climbed and was not very bright?
2
 Monk 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> What about Whillans? He climbed and was not very bright?

Really? What do you base your assessment of his brightness on?
In reply to Monk:

His frequent on-the-spot wisecracks showed that he was very bright indeed.
 lithos 14 Sep 2015
In reply to marsbar:

> Found it. This lady did some amazing work with primary children focused on movement to improve learning.


her CV is quite interesting !
 Dave the Rave 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Monk:

> Really? What do you base your assessment of his brightness on?

Academia, not his brightness of smoking a fag in a motorbike helmet.
 Monk 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> Academia, not his brightness of smoking a fag in a motorbike helmet.

Just because somebody doesn't pursue an academic career doesn't mean they aren't bright. Nothing I've ever read or heard about Don Whillans would suggest he was thick.
 Goucho 14 Sep 2015
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> Academia, not his brightness of smoking a fag in a motorbike helmet.

Some of the most stupid people I've met have been academics
In reply to Goucho:

> Some of the most stupid people I've met have been academics

Ouch! That's cold Goucho!

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