UKC

Just been listening to St Jeremy Vine interviewing Paul Gambaccini and his experiences of being investigated during Yewtree.

Has Yewtree been a success and more importantly a good use of public funds?

In reply to The Lemming:

I saw him yesterday talking about it on Loose Women. (The TV was on 3 when I switched it on). He seemed genuinely hurt by the whole experience and spoke of how it shattered his love of the UK.

Was it a success? I think it wasted a lot of money chasing the slightest allegation thrown at anyone who was famous from the 60's to the 80's. Some guilty have been caught, some innocents have been dragged through the mud. I feel it was done in the wrong manner but some victims have justice after many years and I can't see that as a bad thing.

In reply to The Lemming:

I agree. I think I would like to see the law change in two respects.

1. I think the accused should be allowed to remain anonymous until proved guilty by a court of law. I appreciate that publicly naming someone in an investigation is a good way of getting new evidence but the damage in personal reputation to the accused can be irrecoverable in the case where he / she is found not guilty.

2. I would like the police to be banned from making statements to the press. They are continually making statements that offer a judgement of the guilty. The police are not there to judge. That is for the judiciary. They are there to uphold the law - pure and simple.

In reply to ByEek:




This is a tough one.

I agree in many ways but the public information also helps others come forward but I think a case should have to be made before naming a suspect. Is it in the public interest.

The police have been disgusting, but that's the police.

In reply to Roadrunner5:


If the public interest is in gossiping then yes it is. However, I fail to see how naming someone like Paul Gambaccini as suspect sex offender is going to help. As for getting witnesses - surely it is possible to make a public appeal on a broader basis - like gun amnestys for example?

The horror about Yewtree is that many of the main offenders who were ousted in the investigation (but are now dead) had had a long string of complaints against them over the years... which brings us back to the police and disgusting.

In reply to nathan79:


You really don't have to make excuses for your viewing habits, you know

I guess a historical investigation like this does seek to give some closure to the victims. And some wrongs have been righted. But a cull of 60's DJ's just doesn't get anywhere near the reality. Soft targets. I believe that there is an independent review set up by the government to review allegations of abuse, potentially by government ministers, in care homes in North Wales, under Mrs Justice Macur. Unfortunately that review seems to be suffering a 'Chilcott' and is now two years overdue.

In reply to Roadrunner5:




Not sure if I got my facts right or if I listened correctly, but I think that Gambo said that only two new suspects were convicted and, I think, three repeat offenders were convicted from Yewtree.

As for Gambo himself, only one alleged victim came forward and no further victims (?) were discovered after extensive investigations by the police.

Many, many people were subjected to what can only be described as a media witch hunt and will probably never clear the stain from their clear character.

Not good.

In reply to The Lemming:

Perhaps they should be named only once they are charged, not arrested. The CPS should review the evidence as an independent third party. Once that process is complete the media can be informed.

Having the police inform the media of an arrest, seems like a short cut of the justice system. Though the media will still report that some celeb has been arrested, as that is news in itself these days. The reporting ban would have to cover all arrests though, not just sex crimes. As a report of Mr X was arrested for 'unspecified charges' will be short hand for 'sex crimes'.

Maybe the police are going after these people with new zeal, to make up for the lack of action on the numerous reports over the years. They don't really have a great history when it comes to high profile cases.

In reply to The Lemming:

The accusation cost him over £200,000 in loss of earnings and legal fees. The least the state can do is reimburse his legal fees.

In reply to Roadrunner5:


You tar the entire UK police force with that slur based on ...

If you're going to make such moronic comments you should have the balls to back it up with compelling evidence.

In reply to ByEek:

I couldn't agree more.

Too many trials by media.

In reply to dread-i:


Isn't it charged then arrested?

In reply to The Lemming:

An important point to consider is that the accusers are eligible for compensation from the criminal injuries compensation scheme whether or not the accused is found guilty. They have a built-in incentive to make accusations and I believe the police made them aware of the possibility of some cash from the state. There is something rather like Arthur Miller's Crucible about this shameful episode.

In reply to aln:


Nope.

In reply to Frank the Husky:

Evidence..

Hillsborough, the systemic cover up
Leaking the news of Cliff Richards. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2925118/Cliff-leak-cop-let-slap-wri...
Again.. slapped wrist

There is plenty.

In reply to Andy Say:

From the victims point of view it's not historical, it's with them every day. The police should investigate any charge of historical abuse (they do in England, in Scotland the guidelines are somewhat different (they don't pursue uncorroborated accusations - so bad luck if you've been abused in Scotland folks)).

There is a valid point to be made about the media getting in the way of a fair investigation as the media tend not to help any of the participants in what is a very difficult and sensitive investigation.

Those who feel obliged to gob off about stuff like this without knowing about how it affects victims and those around them might want to pause before spouting.

The police are now the only people who will protect and seek justice for the victims of abuse who have no one to turn too - you might want to consider that before slagging them off - I've seen the difference they make and even after a conviction it never ends for the victims.

In reply to dread-i:

The investigating authority may need more evidence before a charge can be made and naming the suspect may bring forward further victims.

In reply to cander:



Hi, Cander.

Not too sure that you meant all or any of this post for me?

I'm not sure I've 'slagged' the police anywhere? Though I do think that there is an element in 'Yewtree' of going for the low-hanging fruit of people on the periphery of the music industry: an industry which had a certain 'culture', shall we say, in the 70's.

But where are the results of enquiries about organised abuse in children's homes etc. by potentially high profile figures in both North Wales and Northern Ireland? Not such easy targets? Cyril Smith? That took a long time to 'sort of' come out didn't it. But then, he wasn't an old DJ.

I feel I've dealt with my own abuse OK. I don't need restitution or revenge. It's over and done. I am me now; and have been for years. So I don't need lectures.

Ciao.

In reply to cander:

i think the problem on yewtree though is that the police appear to have been actively encouraging people to make accusations. i didn't get a chance to listen to the entire program but the bits i did, didn't paint the investigative process in a good light. (PG did say that he felt that good officers were being encouraged to investigate in a particular way they were uncomfortable with though if that makes a difference)

In reply to Andy Say:

Not really meant for you, sorry if you picked it up that way.

I'm also not in agreement that it gets neatly packaged and put behind you - for you it might but for others, it really isn't that easy to move on, complex PTSD is how the diagnosis goes, and it's as disabling as losing a leg, except no one gives you any sympathy, because they can't see what your suffering from.

Actually Yew tree is about moving forward enquires that should have been dealt with years ago but there was no sympathy for those kids in institutions. The police have changed and do take sexual abuse allegations seriously, something they didn't do in the 70's, 80's, 90's, and noughties - there's a sea change and I for one am delighted to see sexual abuse being investigated with real intent.

In reply to Roadrunner5: Thanks - however I wouldn't put Hillsborough in the same category at Cliff Richard. One was a shocking tragedy and brutal travesty and the other was just a bit of a pain for a very rich and famous person.

You haven't convinced me with your "evidence" that all the police (who you lump into one) are "disgusting". I work with them most days (I'm ambulance EMT in Manchester) and I'd say the treatment they get on a daily basis from the public is more often than not disgusting.

However, that being said perhaps we could agree that there are bad (and sometimes utterly rotten) apples in the police and they give the rest of the honest and incredibly tolerant, hard working members of the force a really bad name?