UKC

Hi All,

Just some opinions if I may ?(This is the place to come).

What's everyone's view on the worth/viability of protein and other supplements. I've used them before and seemed to get reasonable results but they're just so expensive. I'm coming round to the point of view now of just paying attention to what I eat more closely to ensure the right level of intake.

I'm just interested to know everyone else's view.........

In reply to mattlee:





I use them a lot myself , especially good at getting something down you when your in a rush or after a mega gym session.

As for expense , I personally use my protein products. They do an awesome line of pure whey protein in the most exotic of flavours.
I'm currently trying out the blueberry cheesecake flavour. You can get 1kg unflavoured for £12.69 or the exotic flavours for £15.79 .

http://www.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/impact-whey-protein/10530943.html

OM

In reply to mattlee:

depends on what you are after
if you are veg / vegan looking for more protein then there are lots of good options
if you are just looking to increase protein intake then there are plenty of whole foods i.e animal meat, fish meat that are excellent sources
If you are looking for a protein source that reduces reliance on animals then there are lots of options such as hemp, pea etc

Ive used various ones, back in the time when I was not intolerant to milk and soya proteins I found that they helped with muscle growth, more than just eating meat proteins.
However on non milk proteins Ive not noticed as much benefit after workouts, yes its still a useful source if you dont have time to have a proper meal, but I generally dont bother now - if i work harder I just eat more of everything.

In reply to mattlee:

I guess it's the inevitable question, but I think it depends on what you're trying to do?

If you're trying to get more muscular then it's probably a good thing.

If you're trying to do loads of training to work towards climbing a higher indoor bouldering grade then it probably won't do any harm.

But if you're looking to push your trad on-sight grade from VS to HVS (for example) then it probably won't have an effect.

In reply to RyanOsborne:

I'm Just after maintaining really. I've just completed Mont Blanc and Gran Paradiso and want to keep my level of fitness for lots of stuff I have planned for the winter. I took Cyclone whilst doing my training but now the climb's done I just don't want to go backwards.....I guess its down to diet. I agree that its really convenient to take a shake straight after training but it comes back down to expense...

In reply to mattlee:


Just been reading a book on sports nutrition, not climbing specific though. It says whey protein can be a good source of additional protein if your diet's lacking in it, but if you just want something for post training recovery, skimmed milk is ideal (and cheaper than a supplement).

In reply to mattlee:
I'm sceptical about the need to take protein supplements following reading this from Australian Sports Institute a few years ago:

http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/factsheets/basics/protein_-_how_muc...

"Even if an athlete has a higher requirement for protein than a sedentary individual, do they need to change their eating practices to increase their protein serves? In particular, do they need to focus only on very high protein foods, or take protein supplements? Generally, athletes enjoy the advantage of increased energy requirements that make it possible to consume even larger amounts of protein and other nutrients than the sedentary person. Numerous dietary surveys show that the dietary patterns reported by various groups of athletes provide protein intakes that are well in excess of 2.0 g/kg body mass per day - especially in the case of strength-training athletes. Therefore, there is little scientific justification for special high protein eating strategies for sport."

In reply to RockSteady:

That argument doesn't wash at all.

Athletes can eat more so they do so they get lots of protein so they don't have to supplement?

1) that eating more already includes supplements
2) all athletes are different - some can afford steak and chicken daily, some can't
3) we aren't professional athletes with their support

Protein serves a purpose - it is quick, convenient, relatively (in terms of £/g) cheap, and tasty.

Why not use it?

In reply to RockSteady:
[quote]Numerous dietary surveys show that the dietary patterns reported by various groups of athletes provide protein intakes that are well in excess of 2.0 g/kg body mass per day - especially in the case of strength-training athletes. [/quote]


Really?? 2 grams per kg of bodyweight is loads. I would struggle to achieve that. 1.0g was I thought the standard advice and that is hard enough especially if dieting.

In reply to shark:

Reading the study and the diet they show as 'typical' for a 70kg athlete, I suspect they have (typically) studied the requirements for endurance athletes, who tend to train way more than the average climber and also eat loads.

A climber who is trying to keep their weight low I suppose may struggle to get their protein requirements. Although it's worth remembering of course that protein isn't just found in the obvious things like meat and milk, but also crops up in bread etc.

Personally I did find that this statement rang true:

"Occasionally, an athlete may require a supplement when a practical way to consume sufficient food cannot be found. Many protein supplements are very expensive due primarily to the amount of marketing that accompanies products and the processing required to extract the protein from cow’s milk. They tend to provide very large amounts of protein and little other nutrients. There is no need for the amount of protein provided by many supplements and there is certainly no justification for the extra cost."

As with all things it depends on your individual diet and requirements. I'm wary of the amount of sugar in these supplements, tend to find they don't taste nice but rather chemically, and generally think that high quality dietary protein like tuna or eggs (Niçoise salad anyone?) trumps a supplement.

In reply to RockSteady:

Milk is cheap.

In reply to mattlee:

Banana, peanut butter and milk + honey if you want makes a nice milkshake.

In reply to Al Evans:
"Milk is cheap."

Exactly.

Think the milk marketing board used a similar line in the 80s.

In reply to RockSteady:
That would make sense. Dedicated (as in don't do other sport) climbers wont burn many calories through exercise. It does mean that our %of protein for daily calories consumed needs to be high to get to 1g per kg of mass.

I have recently started having a couple of protein bars (my only supplement) as a treat and part of my at-the-crag grazing menu which might also include a tin of mackerel in sauce, malt loaf, boiled eggs and yoghurt. Bars can be bulk bought at >£1 per bar and if you search for the right products can give you 20g of protein per bar.

On non crag days I have been eating selected (Fagu and Liberte) greek yoghurts (surprisingly high protein content and delicious with honey and a bit of muesli) bacon and egg fry ups and snacking on packets of pre cooked chicken. Bread and other carb dense stuff like rice and potato are off the menu replaced with extra veg for family evening meal. Drinking water with meal is useful to help fill you up and it keeps food in your stomach longer Im told.

In general I have faith in the bodies ability to use and synthesize what in needs from any protein though I try to have as much variety as possible. Its probably similar to a Paleo diet.

Above approach has worked spectacularly well for me. All time low weight, fat % still within healthy range(9% of BW) and plenty of energy and generally low hunger pangs.

In reply to mattlee:

Skimmed milk and Nesquik is a fantastic protein drink - lots of great reviews even from body builders (although they tend to use full fat) and much cheaper and less chance of kidney stones

In reply to Durbs:

And shedloads of sugar from the nesquik!

Supplements should be seen as exactly what they are- supplemental.
Protein powders are very handy and needn't cost the earth. I also use them to beef-up flapjacks and the like and often porridge too. Eggy porridge is an alternative but for some reason most people I've let (i.e. made) try it don't take to it! Don't get me started on the tuna porridge I tried once!

Milk and boiled eggs will do you fine though.

In reply to shark:


Never thought I'd read those words!

Single digit body-fat is a fine accomplishment (particularly when done in a sustainable way - which it seems to me you have achieved).

EDIT: I've read on a few strength forums a recommendation of about 2g PRO per lean KG of bodymass daily.

In reply to Shani:

My approach was underpinned by logic rather than atavism

In reply to mattlee:

Unless you are monitoring your food content closely worth also taking vitamin pills

In reply to mattlee:

Try Fage Greek yoghurt, as someone else suggested. Full of protein, no nasties and mixes well with nuts, muesli, honey etc if you don't like it on its own. I'm a big fan of quinoa too.

The only benefits I see of protein products pedalled by multi-million pound nutrition companies are their convenience and relative cost to things like meat, for example.

I do use protein bars occasionally, but generally for convenience after hard races or training; certainly wouldn't use them as conventional meal replacement.

Re correct levels of intake, I do seem to remember reading research somewhere that the human body can only usefully synthesise so much protein, irrespective of how much you consume. (However, I have no evidence to back this up.)

Good luck and don't scrimp on the fresh fruit and veg!

In reply to shark:


Of course. We all should.

In reply to mattlee:
You are a climber not a Mr Olympia contender.
Just eat a good diet.

In reply to mattlee:

I do use them; I weight train and run besides climbing. I do the training and running to keep fit, weights for strength, tone up and build a bit of muscle and yes there is a little vanity behind it, I want to be physically fit and to look it too. I don't have time to eat at my desk if I've to return to my desk after the gym and if I am training a lot then it helps a bit with recovery. I do watch what I eat but within reason; I don't get people who cut out carbs as you need them if I have rice I make it brown rice, if I have pasta I go for wholemeal etc. I don't go denying myself of things entirely, I just keep a lid on what treats I have.

The protein shakes just supplement my diet and are easy for me to take to work. They do seem to work, it would maybe take me longer when I've got a goal in mind but I don't go crazy about them. They aren't the basis of what I do, the training is what is important.

In reply to mattlee:
The thing about protein intake is that there is no one right answer. One source/study will give you one figure, whilst another will give you a completely different one.

Personally, I target 1g per lb of lean muscle mass. Do I have to suppliment, yes sometimes but it isn't expensive.
I used protein bars (24 for 15 quid), protein pancakes (10 servings for 9 quid) and protein mousse (10 servings for 8 quid). Each tastes delicious and works out no more expensive than normal eating. I don't really eat all three in one day, but when i plan my meals if i am short on my macros I will boost.

Source: Experience, study (PT and nutrition) and using the interwebz properly.

In reply to RockSteady:




Can't see Tesco or other supermarkets touching that tag line with a 20ft shi3£y barge pole in fear of pissing off a load of farmers.

Be I agree with what you say