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Changing car, audi a5 hatchback going back for something bigger. Considering hybrid with plug-in electric. Not bothered about petrol or diesel, not really after suggestions of cars. Just experience of using electric/hybrid.
Daily commute of 45 miles will mean recharging every night to keep fuel economy up. Long commute of >200 miles to see family. I thought about a Tesla, but the idea of no petrol/diesel backup worries me. On the domestic 10A connection it would take 40 hours to recharge after the drive to see family, stops at a service station on the way could cut that.
Anyone persuaded their work to install a charger? Even a single phase 30A could get me charged for home in an hour.
Daily commute of 45 miles will mean recharging every night to keep fuel economy up. Long commute of >200 miles to see family. I thought about a Tesla, but the idea of no petrol/diesel backup worries me. On the domestic 10A connection it would take 40 hours to recharge after the drive to see family, stops at a service station on the way could cut that.
Anyone persuaded their work to install a charger? Even a single phase 30A could get me charged for home in an hour.
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In reply to Philip:
Back in May we needed a second car as I changed jobs and baby number 2 arrived. 1st car large diesel estate with towbar etc, I wanted the cheapest possible option for commuting in (about 50 mile round trip)
ended up with a Renault Zoe Electric Car.
can't fault it - PCP deal for around £150 per month, free home charge point installed and work are in the process of installing one too.
Pays for itself in what I save in diesel per month - also reduced mileage on our old car (220,000 miles) as wife only uses it occasionally so seems to be significantly extending life of other car + reducing wear and tear.
My deal includes servicing so only extra cost to me will be wipers / tyres etc if anything wears out in the 2 years I've got it for (which i don't think it wil)
Best options for full electric just now are:
Renault Zoe - Range about 95 - 100 miles real world terms (look for new motor (R240) models)
Nissan Leaf - Range about 75 - 80 miles, but about to release a 30kw version which should match the zoe range although probably quite pricy
And of course - who wouldn't love a Tesla!
Any questions - ask away!
Back in May we needed a second car as I changed jobs and baby number 2 arrived. 1st car large diesel estate with towbar etc, I wanted the cheapest possible option for commuting in (about 50 mile round trip)
ended up with a Renault Zoe Electric Car.
can't fault it - PCP deal for around £150 per month, free home charge point installed and work are in the process of installing one too.
Pays for itself in what I save in diesel per month - also reduced mileage on our old car (220,000 miles) as wife only uses it occasionally so seems to be significantly extending life of other car + reducing wear and tear.
My deal includes servicing so only extra cost to me will be wipers / tyres etc if anything wears out in the 2 years I've got it for (which i don't think it wil)
Best options for full electric just now are:
Renault Zoe - Range about 95 - 100 miles real world terms (look for new motor (R240) models)
Nissan Leaf - Range about 75 - 80 miles, but about to release a 30kw version which should match the zoe range although probably quite pricy
And of course - who wouldn't love a Tesla!
Any questions - ask away!
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In reply to TimSter:
The Zoe looks good. Just considering getting two of those and keep an SUV or estate car for going away.
If I add up the mileage for 2 of us, the depreciation on her car and servicing, my car allowance and BIK charge, it comes to a crazy amount. Cars cost too much.
The Zoe looks good. Just considering getting two of those and keep an SUV or estate car for going away.
If I add up the mileage for 2 of us, the depreciation on her car and servicing, my car allowance and BIK charge, it comes to a crazy amount. Cars cost too much.
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In reply to David Riley:
I think he knows that, it's about 1/4 or less of your existing fuel cost. For me, I could save about £2k using paid-for electricity, a bit more with some of the free stuff.
> Electricity ?
I think he knows that, it's about 1/4 or less of your existing fuel cost. For me, I could save about £2k using paid-for electricity, a bit more with some of the free stuff.
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In reply to TimSter:
I am curious to know what impact it has had on your electricity bill.
But is that because you end up doing a quarter the mileage owing to not being able to charge so often. i.e. you drive more conscientiously?
> Pays for itself in what I save in diesel per month - also reduced mileage on our old car (220,000 miles) as wife only uses it occasionally so seems to be significantly extending life of other car + reducing wear and tear.
I am curious to know what impact it has had on your electricity bill.
> In reply to Philip:
> I think he knows that, it's about 1/4 or less of your existing fuel cost. For me, I could save about £2k using paid-for electricity, a bit more with some of the free stuff.
But is that because you end up doing a quarter the mileage owing to not being able to charge so often. i.e. you drive more conscientiously?
Post edited at 11:31
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In reply to ByEek:
No by 1/4 I mean, I have two cars Audi A5 diesel and Suzuki swift petrol Both do about 40mpg. At £1.10 / L for 40 mpg = 12p/mile
Electric cars get about 3p. The Zoe mentioned above has a 22kwh battery for about 100 miles (130 miles by the book). 22kwh takes about 22 units (heating losses). For medium -high electricity users the unit charge is about 10p/unit on single rate meter. That means £2.20 for 100 miles, or 2.2p/mile.
But you're right. If you have an electric car, you can't go anywhere if it's flat! My concern. The recharge time is long compared with the 5 minutes to put 600 miles of diesel in my A5.
No by 1/4 I mean, I have two cars Audi A5 diesel and Suzuki swift petrol Both do about 40mpg. At £1.10 / L for 40 mpg = 12p/mile
Electric cars get about 3p. The Zoe mentioned above has a 22kwh battery for about 100 miles (130 miles by the book). 22kwh takes about 22 units (heating losses). For medium -high electricity users the unit charge is about 10p/unit on single rate meter. That means £2.20 for 100 miles, or 2.2p/mile.
But you're right. If you have an electric car, you can't go anywhere if it's flat! My concern. The recharge time is long compared with the 5 minutes to put 600 miles of diesel in my A5.
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Yeah - there is indeed an increase in the Electricity cost.
Not sure as yet how much it will be as still early days. - estimated cost of a full charge £2. I increased my direct debit by £20 per month which I hope more than covers it. I rather pay more than be hit with a big bill.
I try to offset this by using free public charge points whenever I get a chance and I'm about to take the plunge an install a 4kw solar panel battery ready system.
Almost impossible to give exact figures. There's the cost of the instal, offset against savings when I can use what I generate, feed in tarrif - then when I've added some batteries to it i'll be able to charge the house batteries during the day and use that stored power to charge the car at night. I reckon it will pay for itself in 5 years, then 15 years more guaranteed feed in tarriff is profit - and savings as the cost of brought in electric will rise, mine won't.
Too many variables to be exact but I think it's a significant long term saving for me. Also reduces the need for pulling power from the grid making me more self sufficient which I like!!
Not sure as yet how much it will be as still early days. - estimated cost of a full charge £2. I increased my direct debit by £20 per month which I hope more than covers it. I rather pay more than be hit with a big bill.
I try to offset this by using free public charge points whenever I get a chance and I'm about to take the plunge an install a 4kw solar panel battery ready system.
Almost impossible to give exact figures. There's the cost of the instal, offset against savings when I can use what I generate, feed in tarrif - then when I've added some batteries to it i'll be able to charge the house batteries during the day and use that stored power to charge the car at night. I reckon it will pay for itself in 5 years, then 15 years more guaranteed feed in tarriff is profit - and savings as the cost of brought in electric will rise, mine won't.
Too many variables to be exact but I think it's a significant long term saving for me. Also reduces the need for pulling power from the grid making me more self sufficient which I like!!
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In reply to Philip:
Indeed - it does take a bit of forward planning to ensure the car is charged when you need it - but you get used to it quickly. I've never yet needed to take the other car as I hadn't managed to get the Zoe charged.
I mainly drive it within range though - most long distance still done in the diesel as the family is with me.
Planning a trip from Scotland to Glossop in the Zoe in december with my 4 year old to see if we can make it though!!
Indeed - it does take a bit of forward planning to ensure the car is charged when you need it - but you get used to it quickly. I've never yet needed to take the other car as I hadn't managed to get the Zoe charged.
I mainly drive it within range though - most long distance still done in the diesel as the family is with me.
Planning a trip from Scotland to Glossop in the Zoe in december with my 4 year old to see if we can make it though!!
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In reply to David Riley:
Don't know what it's like in England but up here, if you have a leccy car, parking is free and so is the electricity at the carpark
Don't know what it's like in England but up here, if you have a leccy car, parking is free and so is the electricity at the carpark
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In reply to graeme jackson:
I looked at charging points and my nearest town has free parking for 2 hours on the charging station. Minimum parking fee is £1 usually. So at 7kW you could park for almost an hour and half, get about 35 mile of range.
It a charger at work that would really help.
I looked at charging points and my nearest town has free parking for 2 hours on the charging station. Minimum parking fee is £1 usually. So at 7kW you could park for almost an hour and half, get about 35 mile of range.
It a charger at work that would really help.
Post edited at 12:07
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In reply to Philip:
Reading with interest. I'm thinking of going electric for my next car, which won't be for a couple of years yet. Am I right in thinking the range seems to be increasing all the time so is likely to be pretty good by then?
Reading with interest. I'm thinking of going electric for my next car, which won't be for a couple of years yet. Am I right in thinking the range seems to be increasing all the time so is likely to be pretty good by then?
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In reply to Tall Clare:
I thought I had another year to make the decision, but I've brought that forward. Annoyingly, my non-electric car of choice is a Jag F-Pace and you can't get one of those before June next year!
> Reading with interest. I'm thinking of going electric for my next car, which won't be for a couple of years yet. Am I right in thinking the range seems to be increasing all the time so is likely to be pretty good by then?
I thought I had another year to make the decision, but I've brought that forward. Annoyingly, my non-electric car of choice is a Jag F-Pace and you can't get one of those before June next year!
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In reply to Tall Clare:
Range is increasing slowly - the cost of a car with increased range seems to go up quite significantly as you're effectively buying more batteries.
Nissan just this month announced a 30kw leaf, previous model was 22kw, however prices yet to be announced.
Renault changed their motor in the summer from a Q210 to a R240 - losing the ability to charge at 43kwh, but creating a more efficient 22kw motor which gets better range than the leaf equivalent.
It seems that range will be increasing however by how much, and at what cost remains to be seen.
What is also improving on an almost weekly basis is the availablity of charge points making long distance easier, just factoring stops to charge -no problem for me I have to stop to let the kids pee / walk the dog etc anyhow.
It's interesting technology, i'm watching closely also as will be handing back the Zoe in 18 months and looking to replace it with something else, unless they offer me to keep the zoe at a stupidly low price!
Range is increasing slowly - the cost of a car with increased range seems to go up quite significantly as you're effectively buying more batteries.
Nissan just this month announced a 30kw leaf, previous model was 22kw, however prices yet to be announced.
Renault changed their motor in the summer from a Q210 to a R240 - losing the ability to charge at 43kwh, but creating a more efficient 22kw motor which gets better range than the leaf equivalent.
It seems that range will be increasing however by how much, and at what cost remains to be seen.
What is also improving on an almost weekly basis is the availablity of charge points making long distance easier, just factoring stops to charge -no problem for me I have to stop to let the kids pee / walk the dog etc anyhow.
It's interesting technology, i'm watching closely also as will be handing back the Zoe in 18 months and looking to replace it with something else, unless they offer me to keep the zoe at a stupidly low price!
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In reply to Philip: I've got an Outlander PHEV - about 30 miles (optimistically) on elec, then a 2L petrol engine.
The vast majority of my driving is 2 or 3 miles each way in and out of Skipton to the station or to run errands - which is obviously all electric. Costs about a quid to charge up - I got a free 32A charger installed on a government scheme. Zero car tax as well.
When it's on electric it's great - but driven "normally" (so 80mph on the motorway) it does about 30mpg. On average I get around 70mpg (I've had it since May) - that's mostly in and out of town with a drive up to Durham (about 160m round trip with charging at the other end) a couple of times a month. I know there's non-elec cars that do 50+mpg overall, but I suspect not many would with my usage of short trips - I know I struggled to get 30mphg overall from my last car.
Would I recommend it? Hmmm - tricky. Probably if you're like me and run around town a lot, if you do more mixed driving then probably not - get a low emissions/high mpg proper car.
The vast majority of my driving is 2 or 3 miles each way in and out of Skipton to the station or to run errands - which is obviously all electric. Costs about a quid to charge up - I got a free 32A charger installed on a government scheme. Zero car tax as well.
When it's on electric it's great - but driven "normally" (so 80mph on the motorway) it does about 30mpg. On average I get around 70mpg (I've had it since May) - that's mostly in and out of town with a drive up to Durham (about 160m round trip with charging at the other end) a couple of times a month. I know there's non-elec cars that do 50+mpg overall, but I suspect not many would with my usage of short trips - I know I struggled to get 30mphg overall from my last car.
Would I recommend it? Hmmm - tricky. Probably if you're like me and run around town a lot, if you do more mixed driving then probably not - get a low emissions/high mpg proper car.
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In reply to Philip:
The Renault electrics have compex contractual battery rental schemes. You buy the car and rent the battery, the rate depends on the contract length. Sell the car and the contract stays with you. the cost of transfer or cancellation is the remainder of the contract. Google it. I saw a Twizzy at a stupidly low price and looked into it.
The Renault electrics have compex contractual battery rental schemes. You buy the car and rent the battery, the rate depends on the contract length. Sell the car and the contract stays with you. the cost of transfer or cancellation is the remainder of the contract. Google it. I saw a Twizzy at a stupidly low price and looked into it.
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In reply to TimSter:
I've worked on the R&D side of EVs and HEVs for a long time. The most effective approach to the range problem which I solved in the past by installing a further set of removable battery packs in the Toyota Auris, and reprogramming the power controller to turn it into a plug in hybrid. On a typical commute, the engine rarely cut in (60 mile round trip), with the option of taking out the packs for long trips and running it as standard.
Just one caveat, Li batteries are, despite advances in technology, significantly susceptible to degradation caused by depth of discharge and/or charging rate. Irrespective of what the manufacturers state, batteries lose significant lifetime every time they undergo fast charge.
I've worked on the R&D side of EVs and HEVs for a long time. The most effective approach to the range problem which I solved in the past by installing a further set of removable battery packs in the Toyota Auris, and reprogramming the power controller to turn it into a plug in hybrid. On a typical commute, the engine rarely cut in (60 mile round trip), with the option of taking out the packs for long trips and running it as standard.
Just one caveat, Li batteries are, despite advances in technology, significantly susceptible to degradation caused by depth of discharge and/or charging rate. Irrespective of what the manufacturers state, batteries lose significant lifetime every time they undergo fast charge.
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In reply to Philip:
A friend had a few days using a BMW i3 and was raving about it for ages after, you can get a range extender version too with a little generator to boost the battery a bit.
A friend had a few days using a BMW i3 and was raving about it for ages after, you can get a range extender version too with a little generator to boost the battery a bit.
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Quite agree - despite what they say - batteries degrade - hence i'm handing mine back after 2 years.
In regard to the battery rental - there's indeed a rental agreement with a stated mileage - I've signed a 2yr contract then I hand the lot back, and walk away!
Just popped out to charge the car in my lunch hour at local ikea: Free charge - (put 64 miles into the "tank") and a free coffee while waiting - sat drinking my free coffee smugly watching the cars at the petrol station across the way pay for fuel and a costa coffee to take away!
Post edited at 14:03
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In reply to TimSter:
How much was the deposit?
I can see deals online that are about £90 per month but need a £5k deposit contribution & a £1k customer deposit & £7k payment at the end to buy a £15k car over 24 months.
Oh & the battery hire of £80 per month for up to 7.5k miles per year.
You can have a bigger than 10amp point at home.
When looking at elec cars do check the battery costs for rental or replacement. Total running costs can be very close to a normal car when all the factors are considered. Just for the record I am pro elec cars, its just they are still too costly.
My normal engine car costs sub 10p per mile.
The quoted 2p per mile neatly forgets the battery charging losses.
You cant fill an empty 22kwh battery using just 22 units (a unit is a kWh).
Real world would be more like 28 units or kWh.
So thats £4.20 per fill or 4.2p per mile at the more normal 15p day time rate (IE at work) night rate will be cheaper but then your day units go up in price too.
Ok small difference in charge costs but added to the battery replacement the cost per mile is much more than you would think.
Using the £80 per month rental on 7.5k per year, each mile costs you 12.8p just for the battery.
> ended up with a Renault Zoe Electric Car.
> can't fault it - PCP deal for around £150 per month, free home charge point installed and work are in the process of installing one too.
> Pays for itself in what I save in diesel per month - also reduced mileage on our old car (220,000 miles) as wife only uses it occasionally so seems to be significantly extending life of other car + reducing wear and tear.
> My deal includes servicing so only extra cost to me will be wipers / tyres etc if anything wears out in the 2 years I've got it for (which i don't think it wil)
How much was the deposit?
I can see deals online that are about £90 per month but need a £5k deposit contribution & a £1k customer deposit & £7k payment at the end to buy a £15k car over 24 months.
Oh & the battery hire of £80 per month for up to 7.5k miles per year.
You can have a bigger than 10amp point at home.
When looking at elec cars do check the battery costs for rental or replacement. Total running costs can be very close to a normal car when all the factors are considered. Just for the record I am pro elec cars, its just they are still too costly.
My normal engine car costs sub 10p per mile.
The quoted 2p per mile neatly forgets the battery charging losses.
You cant fill an empty 22kwh battery using just 22 units (a unit is a kWh).
Real world would be more like 28 units or kWh.
So thats £4.20 per fill or 4.2p per mile at the more normal 15p day time rate (IE at work) night rate will be cheaper but then your day units go up in price too.
Ok small difference in charge costs but added to the battery replacement the cost per mile is much more than you would think.
Using the £80 per month rental on 7.5k per year, each mile costs you 12.8p just for the battery.
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In reply to Richard Wilson:
Deposit - back in June when I ordered was £0
On 10,000 miles PA
Car - £75 per month
Battery - £75 per month
Servicing was included.
That's all.
There's no way i'd want to buy / own something like this. Technology moves too fast. By teh time my 2 yr deal is up the car's value will be nothing but that's not my problem!
Deposit - back in June when I ordered was £0
On 10,000 miles PA
Car - £75 per month
Battery - £75 per month
Servicing was included.
That's all.
There's no way i'd want to buy / own something like this. Technology moves too fast. By teh time my 2 yr deal is up the car's value will be nothing but that's not my problem!
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In reply to TimSter:
So still 9p per mile just for the battery.
Even with free recharge costs my car is cheaper per mile.
(due to the lower cost of fuel at the min, when I worked out my fuel costs it was dearer)
Using todays prices.
On a long run I get just over 6p (75mpg) & around town & giving learner lessons 9p (55mpg).
When towing 1000kg it is 13p (38mpg).
So still 9p per mile just for the battery.
Even with free recharge costs my car is cheaper per mile.
(due to the lower cost of fuel at the min, when I worked out my fuel costs it was dearer)
Using todays prices.
On a long run I get just over 6p (75mpg) & around town & giving learner lessons 9p (55mpg).
When towing 1000kg it is 13p (38mpg).
In reply to Richard Wilson:
Not entirely Mr Wilson.
You haven't told me:
A - how much you pay for the car (purchase cost)
B - Servicing / maintenance costs
C - Annual Tax
D - Potential for inflation if fuel goes up
I don't want to get into a tit for tat. That's not what this thread is about.
The OP asked for experiences of EV drivers - i gave him mine, and it works out financially viable for me. It obviously doesn't for you - that's great. Wouldn't it be boring if we all did the same thing.
When I needed to buy a new (or second hand) car - this was by far the best option for me at the time and I'm happy with it.
Not entirely Mr Wilson.
You haven't told me:
A - how much you pay for the car (purchase cost)
B - Servicing / maintenance costs
C - Annual Tax
D - Potential for inflation if fuel goes up
I don't want to get into a tit for tat. That's not what this thread is about.
The OP asked for experiences of EV drivers - i gave him mine, and it works out financially viable for me. It obviously doesn't for you - that's great. Wouldn't it be boring if we all did the same thing.
When I needed to buy a new (or second hand) car - this was by far the best option for me at the time and I'm happy with it.
Post edited at 15:41
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In reply to TimSter:
Richard Wilson is comparing your Apple with his orange.
He is comparing your purchase costs with his running costs.
Your experience is great to hear. As a long time fuel burner and now with a deadly VW diesel on my hands I've been researching the new breed of PHEV cars such as the golf GTE and upcoming Passat.....comparing to a new Euro 6 diesel.
As a 2 car house I hadn't considered a fully electric such as Zoe or Leaf ....maybe I will now...... PCP such as yours definitely the way forward.
Richard Wilson is comparing your Apple with his orange.
He is comparing your purchase costs with his running costs.
Your experience is great to hear. As a long time fuel burner and now with a deadly VW diesel on my hands I've been researching the new breed of PHEV cars such as the golf GTE and upcoming Passat.....comparing to a new Euro 6 diesel.
As a 2 car house I hadn't considered a fully electric such as Zoe or Leaf ....maybe I will now...... PCP such as yours definitely the way forward.
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In reply to Philip:
I've got a Scalextric Porsche Carrera. It goes for miles on pence. No need to recharge it just keep pressing the trigger.
Dave's son.
I've got a Scalextric Porsche Carrera. It goes for miles on pence. No need to recharge it just keep pressing the trigger.
Dave's son.
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In reply to Philip:
My standard journey is about 130 miles often on challenging roads. Sometimes extend that to 250. If I needed to find a petrol station then it might be a problem but a charger no chance. Add to that doing a lot of those miles in winter darkness and early morning sub-zero temperatures and there are enough problems with the ridiculously over-complex electrical systems of modern petroleum burners without going electric.
Sometimes I still miss the Morris Minor Van.
If I had an electric car here then I could charge it from nice clean hydro but I don't know how you get green credentials down in equatorial britain charging from coal and nuclear.
My standard journey is about 130 miles often on challenging roads. Sometimes extend that to 250. If I needed to find a petrol station then it might be a problem but a charger no chance. Add to that doing a lot of those miles in winter darkness and early morning sub-zero temperatures and there are enough problems with the ridiculously over-complex electrical systems of modern petroleum burners without going electric.
Sometimes I still miss the Morris Minor Van.
If I had an electric car here then I could charge it from nice clean hydro but I don't know how you get green credentials down in equatorial britain charging from coal and nuclear.
> You haven't told me:
> A - how much you pay for the car (purchase cost)
> B - Servicing / maintenance costs
> C - Annual Tax
> D - Potential for inflation if fuel goes up
> The OP asked for experiences of EV drivers - i gave him mine, and it works out financially viable for me. It obviously doesn't for you - that's great. Wouldn't it be boring if we all did the same thing.
As you asked
We paid £4900 for it at 18k miles
I service / maintain it. It does 20K between service & each one costs me less than £50 in parts. Not had it long enough for any other costs yet. However I do have an earlier version & that has done 140k of which 40k in our ownership & that nhas needed nothing apart from servicing & a cam belt when we got it as it is due at 100k.
Free road tax (other car is £30)
If fuel goes up it would have to do so by 50% ish to change things.
Thats the thing though you are not looking at all the options. It might be better than what you had before but its not the most viable option.
I really do love the idea of elec cars. Its just they are still not actually the best option. I wish they were. We are off grid with our own solar power that in summer makes more than we can use so the car charge would be free. At the min free charges still do not make it the best option.
I guess if you are in a town & congestion charges & parking plays a big part of the costs of running a car it might be different.
If makers are giving you a deposit contribution you have to ask why?
The product is not ready for market at a marketable price. They need to get back some development costs to keep development going. None of them want to be last to market with an EV. I get all this. Early adopters pay for that privilege, I know we did when we bought our solar system at nearly £3 per watt when now its sub 50p.
When its ready for market at a sensible total cost of ownership price with a sensible range I will be in the que for one.
In reply to Philip: I live in Norway and they sell tons here, mostly eGolfs, Leafs, Teszlas. Because of the tax breaks and at this pint, exemption from congestion/toll charges they are very cheap.
The only issues are range, and to an extent, cold. I don't hear any other complaints. If I needed a 2nd car it would be an electric, no doubt of that
The only issues are range, and to an extent, cold. I don't hear any other complaints. If I needed a 2nd car it would be an electric, no doubt of that
In reply to Richard Wilson:
You are comparing a second hand car with a new one, it will be interesting to see what sort of deals become available on second hand EV models.
You are comparing a second hand car with a new one, it will be interesting to see what sort of deals become available on second hand EV models.
In reply to The New NickB:
>... , it will be interesting to see what sort of deals become available on second hand EV models.
Very few?
Maybe an i8 (does that count?) - but if I was buying a 'Supercar' I'm not sure it would be on the list.
>... , it will be interesting to see what sort of deals become available on second hand EV models.
Very few?
Maybe an i8 (does that count?) - but if I was buying a 'Supercar' I'm not sure it would be on the list.
In reply to Richard Wilson:
I think the £5k deposit contributions come from government. Mine was certainly discounted by that by a govt contribution.
I think the £5k deposit contributions come from government. Mine was certainly discounted by that by a govt contribution.
In reply to Kipper:
The question is what will happen in the near future, lots for EV models on the road, mostly on 2-3 year lease deals, what happens when they are returned.
> >... , it will be interesting to see what sort of deals become available on second hand EV models.
> Very few?
The question is what will happen in the near future, lots for EV models on the road, mostly on 2-3 year lease deals, what happens when they are returned.
In reply to The New NickB:
I was actually comparing just the running costs per mile but was drawn into the other issues. The new or old car is a completely new debate.
For most new cars the biggest cost is depreciation.
I'm not sure how a car with out an engine (or prob more accurately a fuel tank as that is what the battery does) or an engine/fuel tank you need to rent or keep re buying will sell once out of warranty.
That factor could make depreciation quite steep.
I was actually comparing just the running costs per mile but was drawn into the other issues. The new or old car is a completely new debate.
For most new cars the biggest cost is depreciation.
I'm not sure how a car with out an engine (or prob more accurately a fuel tank as that is what the battery does) or an engine/fuel tank you need to rent or keep re buying will sell once out of warranty.
That factor could make depreciation quite steep.
In reply to RedFive:
He is not purchasing the battery or car, its rental.
The cars rental is not a factor but the battery is as its directly comparable to the fuel running costs.
> He is comparing your purchase costs with his running costs.
He is not purchasing the battery or car, its rental.
The cars rental is not a factor but the battery is as its directly comparable to the fuel running costs.
In reply to andy:
Does that average include the electric part of the journey?
If I have got this right when on a long trip with no elec power its gets 30mpg?
Running a round with elec & fuel its gets 70mpg equivalent?
That seems very low.
For example my trip from Leicester to Pwllehli of about 190miles results in a 75mpg av. I have done this trip a few time & it always gets that. The previous car only managed 57mpg on the same trip.
When running a round & when doing learner lessons (so not very fuel efficient in the most part) it returns 58mpg.
If they started with my car as a base (nothing special just an Astra) & then added the elec pack to it they must be able to come up with a better result. Ok the battery & motor weight would be an issue carried round all the time.
I just think they could try harder thats all.
Start with a more efficient base car.
Why have a hybrid if it cant even match a non hybrids cars mpg?
> When it's on electric it's great - but driven "normally" (so 80mph on the motorway) it does about 30mpg. On average I get around 70mpg (I've had it since May) - that's mostly in and out of town with a drive up to Durham (about 160m round trip with charging at the other end) a couple of times a month. I know there's non-elec cars that do 50+mpg overall, but I suspect not many would with my usage of short trips - I know I struggled to get 30mphg overall from my last car.
Does that average include the electric part of the journey?
If I have got this right when on a long trip with no elec power its gets 30mpg?
Running a round with elec & fuel its gets 70mpg equivalent?
That seems very low.
For example my trip from Leicester to Pwllehli of about 190miles results in a 75mpg av. I have done this trip a few time & it always gets that. The previous car only managed 57mpg on the same trip.
When running a round & when doing learner lessons (so not very fuel efficient in the most part) it returns 58mpg.
If they started with my car as a base (nothing special just an Astra) & then added the elec pack to it they must be able to come up with a better result. Ok the battery & motor weight would be an issue carried round all the time.
I just think they could try harder thats all.
Start with a more efficient base car.
Why have a hybrid if it cant even match a non hybrids cars mpg?
In reply to Richard Wilson:
Because it's a much larger, heavier vehicle. Some people need larger vehicles. It's much more efficient than the diesel or petrol version of the same car.
> Why have a hybrid if it cant even match a non hybrids cars mpg?
Because it's a much larger, heavier vehicle. Some people need larger vehicles. It's much more efficient than the diesel or petrol version of the same car.
In reply to The New NickB:
Exactly. It's a fairly big 4wd and I get 70+mpg on average. I would get nowhere near that in an equivalently sized diesel or petrol with my usage pattern (it'd hardly ever get warmed up on 90% of my mileage). But on a longer run I get low 30's on the motorway at 80-85mph because it's a relatively small engine in a big car (that's extra heavy cos of the batteries).
In a month when I didn't do much driving other than fairly local I got 111mpg between fill ups.
Overall on my run to Durham I'll get maybe 20 miles on elec then use a couple of gallons each way - so maybe 40mpg overall. Which is still better than my Discovery I had previously. I'm sure I could do a lot better than that if I drove at 60mph.
> Because it's a much larger, heavier vehicle. Some people need larger vehicles. It's much more efficient than the diesel or petrol version of the same car.
Exactly. It's a fairly big 4wd and I get 70+mpg on average. I would get nowhere near that in an equivalently sized diesel or petrol with my usage pattern (it'd hardly ever get warmed up on 90% of my mileage). But on a longer run I get low 30's on the motorway at 80-85mph because it's a relatively small engine in a big car (that's extra heavy cos of the batteries).
In a month when I didn't do much driving other than fairly local I got 111mpg between fill ups.
Overall on my run to Durham I'll get maybe 20 miles on elec then use a couple of gallons each way - so maybe 40mpg overall. Which is still better than my Discovery I had previously. I'm sure I could do a lot better than that if I drove at 60mph.
In reply to Jim Fraser:
A commonly raised point this. Central generation and electric distribution is more efficient than burning fuel in the car, even before considering how much more energy goes into processing and distributing petrol and diesel. Fundamental benefits of external vs internal combustion. Building on this the emission of nasties such as participates and NOX is far easier to control in large power stations than mobile cars.
If we made more use of waste heat from our power plants (eg district heating) the efficiency would be higher still.
> If I had an electric car here then I could charge it from nice clean hydro but I don't know how you get green credentials down in equatorial britain charging from coal and nuclear
A commonly raised point this. Central generation and electric distribution is more efficient than burning fuel in the car, even before considering how much more energy goes into processing and distributing petrol and diesel. Fundamental benefits of external vs internal combustion. Building on this the emission of nasties such as participates and NOX is far easier to control in large power stations than mobile cars.
If we made more use of waste heat from our power plants (eg district heating) the efficiency would be higher still.
In reply to andy:
I must admit I missed that it was a 4x4.
In that case that does look good.
What is its towing capacity?
Is it an auto?
> Exactly. It's a fairly big 4wd and I get 70+mpg on average. I would get nowhere near that in an equivalently sized diesel or petrol with my usage pattern (it'd hardly ever get warmed up on 90% of my mileage). But on a longer run I get low 30's on the motorway at 80-85mph because it's a relatively small engine in a big car (that's extra heavy cos of the batteries).
I must admit I missed that it was a 4x4.
In that case that does look good.
What is its towing capacity?
Is it an auto?
In reply to Tall Clare:
Increasing range is a task with diminishing returns. In broad terms adding battery adds cost and weight and reduces efficiency. Unless and until there's a step change in available battery technology there's probably a sweet-spot around 150 miles with quick recharging capability and recharge points widely available to get them accepted by the general public. I mad keen to build myself an electric car but I've got to get the house habitable first
jk
> Reading with interest. I'm thinking of going electric for my next car, which won't be for a couple of years yet. Am I right in thinking the range seems to be increasing all the time so is likely to be pretty good by then?
Increasing range is a task with diminishing returns. In broad terms adding battery adds cost and weight and reduces efficiency. Unless and until there's a step change in available battery technology there's probably a sweet-spot around 150 miles with quick recharging capability and recharge points widely available to get them accepted by the general public. I mad keen to build myself an electric car but I've got to get the house habitable first
jk
In reply to Philip:
One of the things my husband likes about his EV (apart from the 4-figure reduction in commuting expenses per year) is the heating timer. The car is heated using mains electricity so it's warm and defrosted when you get in in the morning and you don't have to use so much battery power as you drive to work.
One of the things my husband likes about his EV (apart from the 4-figure reduction in commuting expenses per year) is the heating timer. The car is heated using mains electricity so it's warm and defrosted when you get in in the morning and you don't have to use so much battery power as you drive to work.
In reply to Vanessa Simmons:
What model is that? We moved last year and the new house had no garage or room for it, so we're back to defrosting every day.
What model is that? We moved last year and the new house had no garage or room for it, so we're back to defrosting every day.
In reply to Philip: My Mitsubishi does that (and has an app so you can set it from indoors). I know the new Merc c-class does too, and I suspect the Audi/VW ones do as well.
In reply to Richard Wilson:
1500kg apparently (I have a towbar but only for a bike rack). And yes - I suspect all EVs are auto.
q&As here: http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/outlander/phev-faq.aspx
> I must admit I missed that it was a 4x4.
> In that case that does look good.
> What is its towing capacity?
> Is it an auto?
1500kg apparently (I have a towbar but only for a bike rack). And yes - I suspect all EVs are auto.
q&As here: http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/outlander/phev-faq.aspx
Post edited at 20:50
In reply to andy:
The electric C or all C classes? The C350 hybrid is on my list of potentials. It's a long list of potentials, I haven't managed to convince my wife to have 2 electric cars and a bigger car for holidays.
> My Mitsubishi does that (and has an app so you can set it from indoors). I know the new Merc c-class does too, and I suspect the Audi/VW ones do as well.
The electric C or all C classes? The C350 hybrid is on my list of potentials. It's a long list of potentials, I haven't managed to convince my wife to have 2 electric cars and a bigger car for holidays.
In reply to Philip:
It's a 2 year old Nissan Leaf. He also has an app on his phone so he can tweak the settings while lying in bed before he gets up!) I really enjoy driving it too. Got a free charging point installed on our drive, we charge it at night on cheap rate and therefore pay about 1.5p per mile. (When he first did the calculations, my husband had to try 3 times before he realised that he hadn't got the decimal point in the wrong place!)
It's a 2 year old Nissan Leaf. He also has an app on his phone so he can tweak the settings while lying in bed before he gets up!) I really enjoy driving it too. Got a free charging point installed on our drive, we charge it at night on cheap rate and therefore pay about 1.5p per mile. (When he first did the calculations, my husband had to try 3 times before he realised that he hadn't got the decimal point in the wrong place!)
In reply to Philip:
PS if you would like to see the car, we're in Derbyshire so just drop me a pm and we could arrange something.
PS if you would like to see the car, we're in Derbyshire so just drop me a pm and we could arrange something.
In reply to andy:
Thats a shame. I knew all EV cars were auto, just hoped some hybrids were manual. I teach B+E (trailer towing) so looking for an economical tow car but must be manual or the client can only tow with an auto. Oddly take a lorry/ lorry & trailer (bus too I think) test in an auto & you can drive a manual if you have a manual car licence. Industry is hoping for this to change for cars too.
What would you think the average consumption would be on a 6 hour driving day (out for 7 hours inc rests) towing 1000kg covering about 120-160 miles of mixed roads & maneuvers? There would be no top up during the day as I dont think we have any round here.
Thats a shame. I knew all EV cars were auto, just hoped some hybrids were manual. I teach B+E (trailer towing) so looking for an economical tow car but must be manual or the client can only tow with an auto. Oddly take a lorry/ lorry & trailer (bus too I think) test in an auto & you can drive a manual if you have a manual car licence. Industry is hoping for this to change for cars too.
What would you think the average consumption would be on a 6 hour driving day (out for 7 hours inc rests) towing 1000kg covering about 120-160 miles of mixed roads & maneuvers? There would be no top up during the day as I dont think we have any round here.
It's always a contentious issue - there's usually someone who point blank tells me i'm wrong for driving an EV and that it won't work - but it does - for what i need it for, and despite what has been kindly pointed out to me on this thread -it is, for me, the most viable option!!
And the preheat is lovely - yeah, you can install pre heat on a normal car if you want, it's standard on my Zoe!
Each to their own - but my Zoe does exactly what I need it to, and for everything else i use my Diesel car!
And the preheat is lovely - yeah, you can install pre heat on a normal car if you want, it's standard on my Zoe!
Each to their own - but my Zoe does exactly what I need it to, and for everything else i use my Diesel car!
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