UKC

Hello All!

Looking for any and all advice I can get my hands on. A mate and I are looking at heading north for 2 - 2 1/2 weeks this December (5-20th..) ; the intention being to gain experience in wide range of conditions and areas, test skill and learn some new ones.

(Both experienced summer mountaineers, comfortable moving safely on steep ground and single pitch trad climbing. Also some mixed experience of Summer alpine, scottish winter up to grade II, multi pitch climbing and avalanche skills)

Essentially, working towards becoming really well rounded UK mountaineers over the next few years.

Questions:

- Best areas for winter walking/ climbing conditions in the early season? Preferably no further than Aviemore/ Lochaber)

- Using a well equipped camp as a base from which to work each day. Comfortable camping but camping for a prelonged period in December in Scotland none the less. Good idea? (trying to keep costs down, maybe close to a hostel for drying room use and occasional break)

- Looking at using guides on various days to head out onto some tougher ground (grade III / IV) and rinsing them for knowledge. Any suggestions for guides/ agencies?

- Good first grade III in Cairngorms or Nevis area? (Tower Ridge jumps out)

- Spots for snow-holeing?

- anything other nuggets you can impart?

Cheers!

In reply to theflapjackadventurer:

That's still quite early season by Scottish standards, the Northern Corries will be your best bet. If Tower Ridge is in condition, bear in mind the limited daylight you'll have at that time of year.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Limited by other commitments in the new year so just trying to make the most of it but daylight hours is a good point. Cheers!

In reply to theflapjackadventurer:

As already stated, Cairngorms for early season conditions. You'll soon feel comfortable at grade III if competent mountaineers but Tower Ridge is for later in the season when the days are longer and you've got some mileage. It's a serious and very lengthy outing that has claimed the lives of very able mountaineers.

In reply to theflapjackadventurer:

I think you just need to be flexible and willing to move. Once you are in the Highlands, you can get between areas pretty easily. You might find everything in early season condition then or very little. Really no way of knowing until then. Make sure you have the Scottish winter climbs guide for the whole country. The Southern Highlands can be good early season, and doesn't get the crowds the Northern Corries do, but who knows - maybe the North West will be the best that time this year. You just need to be flexible - I really wouldn't get caught up thinking of specific routes yet.

In reply to theflapjackadventurer:

I'd reinforce what other folk have said, that conditions in mid-December are wildly unpredictable; you might have the hills entirely black, or you might have blizzards and deep soft snow to sea level. Or anything in between. But I'd definitely suggest that spending a couple of weeks camping in December with around 16-18 hours of darkness isn't likely to be much fun - however well set up your camp is, long nights in the sleeping bag are liable to become very wearisome even if relieved by the odd evening in the pub or occasional nights in a hostel or bunkhouse. I generally enjoy camping, but have rarely done more than 2/3 nights under canvas in December. Have you thought of varying the camping with a bit of bothying, e.g. at Corrour or Coire Etchachan?

In reply to theflapjackadventurer:
You've already been given the best advice, sort the rest of your life out and head up late Jan/Feb instead.

Failing that, buy, borrow or steal a decent van (or join the SMC,CC or FRCC etc. for cheap Hut access). Camping in December turns a mediocre plan into a really crap plan.

However, the general idea of heading up for 2-3 weeks is good in principal, so good luck in sorting some sort of plan.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Aha, wish we could but unfortunately plans are pretty solid. Previous experience has been the last two years during Feb-March and its been fantastic. Just trying to make the most of going so early; flexibility I see will be key.

Thanks

In reply to theflapjackadventurer:

Your dates are pretty early season for Scotland, it's too early to tell now but you are unlikely to get lots of decent neve or ice build up. In which case the Northern corries and mixed stuff will be your best bet. Gullies may well be filling up but it is likely to be soft snow and not pleasant climbing. in terms of tower ridge with the daylight you'll have and under the soft snow you will probably be climbing on it might well be like going looking for an epic, the anoch egach might be a better bet. That being said the beauty of Scotland is that is so fickle and you sometimes luck out on excellent conditions so you never know.

In reply to Bob Aitken:

Thanks, clearly lots still to think about and, as you say, flexibility is going to be important. With regards to bothying, it was definitely on the radar but Ill look into those two.

Cheers.

In reply to theflapjackadventurer:

If nothings in nick, do what everyone else does, and get on the hill and go ridge bashing! Have a wander up to the venues for a recce, see how long it would take to walk in, get a feel for the area, especially if you've come a long way, take the gear for a 'walk'

In reply to theflapjackadventurer:

camping will wear you down. I suggest using mountaineering club huts they're probably not much more expensive than a campsite and much more civilised.

the smc raeburn hut near laggan could work as you could get to the Ben at a push. There is also an frcc (?) hut in aviemore and a climbers club hut in in Roybridge.

In reply to theflapjackadventurer:

Done Curved Ridge on October 31st a few years ago. But that was pretty unique and pure luck.

In reply to theflapjackadventurer:

camping as others say will indeed be tough - I've tried it before with SYHA as a backup as you plan but in practice very quickly end up doing more hostels than camping. most hostels are fairly quiet that time of year so can be fairly flexible, although glen nevis and aviemore can be full.

my suggestion would be to book first few days with a guide and leave it up to them to pick area, telling you a few days in advance so you can sort your accommodation. i've always found it fairly easy to book guides/instructors just a few days in advance, and once you've used someone at the start they'll let you know others to try in different areas for later in the trip.

have fun!