UKC

I'm considering changing my 10 year old BD climbing crampons (bionics) for darts at a considerable weight saving but I'm concerned by the lack of an anti balling plate. is this because they're designed for water ice cragging where snow build up is not applicable or because there designed so well they don't need one?! I will be using them on ice/mixed in Scotland (as well as abroad) where snow plod ascents and descents are inevitable. any help/advise much appreciated. Cheers

In reply to 9Stevo:

I love Darts. They are the best climbing crampon I've owned. Almost like a pair of rock shoes!

But I sold mine after the 3rd time they almost killed me, and now use a pair of Petzl Linx. Darts DO ball up badly... I tried gaffer tape and milk bottle inserts, but it always falls off when you need it most. As an all-round crampon - Darts are simply rubbish. As a climbing crampon they're great!

In reply to ERU:

This was my fear! Thanks for your advice

In reply to 9Stevo:

I changed from darts to lynx as well and think the lynx climbs equally as well as the darts. My darts popped off a few times as well

In reply to ERU:

>Darts DO ball up badly... I tried gaffer tape and milk bottle inserts, but it always falls off when you need it most.

Yes they do. I made lash up balling plates with thicker plastic and metal zip ties and it they've been as robust a purpose made. That said, if you can afford Lynx they probably make more sense.

In reply to StevoNorthernClimber:

they climb brilliantly but do ball up a bit
duct tape helps a bit.

In reply to StevoNorthernClimber:

All the monopoints such as the Petzl Darts and Grivel G20's ball up badly and can be extremely dangerous on longer mountaineering routes, on open snowfields, headwalls and easy gullies unless you take extra special care.
As others have said duct tape helps a lot or you can make up your own plates.
I've had numerous nerve wracking descents in the Alps and in Scotland which would have been fine using standard Grivel G12's with antibots but were a nightmare due to balling up on monos. Duct tape alone especially the extra shiny version works well and it last surprisingly well too.
I remember well, my partner using the same monopoint crampons as me and really struggling on the descent from Triangle du Tacul in the heavy wet snow. I found the descent relatively OK in comparison, due to having duct tape on my crampons.
Apparently Ueli Steck made up his own antiballing plates for his Petzl sponsored Darts on the Eiger and god only knows why Petzl and Grivel don't produce them as standard!
I now use some old rubberised dingey material on both my G20's and it works well when secured with robust stainless steel cable clips though the orginal nylon clips lasted OK. See https://www.facebook.com/CairngormMountainGuides/photos/a.322305827869971.5...
I've even emailed Petzl and Grivel re this but never received a reply!

In reply to StevoNorthernClimber:

I've not had too much an issue with them, but it does happen. The rear part of the Petzl antiballing plates fits the darts, but you need to go custom at the front.

I got this response from Lyon: https://twitter.com/johnrobeds/status/658987676079640576

In reply to StevoNorthernClimber:

I use darts for water ice in Norway etc or when the walk in is not so much of an issue and balling up is not a big issue, then use dual points with anti balling plates for bigger mountain routes.

In reply to StevoNorthernClimber:

See 2.00 on this video for Ueli's DIY antiballing plate, youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Edc47__Fs&

Also his latest mod on fruit boots for his recent Eiger record. See https://www.facebook.com/CairngormMountainGuides/posts/691692547597962?fref...

In reply to StevoNorthernClimber:

I find the lynx climbs much better than the darts anyway and more useful as an all rounder

In reply to Ron Walker:

Any idea what plates he customised? - unhelpfully it doesn't look like the ones you use for the heel section.

In reply to Jim Hamilton:

Agree with everyone else here, for all the reasons everyone has given, they are great crampons but it was simply stupid and utterly negligent not to produce customised anti-ball plates for them.

I took a pair of anti-bots from, IIRC, the old style Lynx, the rear one fitted pretty well, the front one required a bit of cobbling to get it to be reliable. Then the rear started to detach, had to be supplemented with some duck tape, so far it is working find. Unfortunately the Lynx front has now been changed to be very specific, so I doubt it could be cobbled to the purpose now.

Extraordinary after all the complaints that Petzl failed to remedy an fairly easy to address and very critical problem. I suppose they were really aiming for the "super light weight" claim, while the anti-bot adds 80 - 100 gm. A foolish and dangerous piece of shortsighted marketing.

In reply to Ron Walker:


Why am I not surprised? They seem determined to deny that there is a problem here, no so blind as those who will not see.

In reply to StevoNorthernClimber:

Have a look at Black Diamond Stinger crampons. A touch heavier than darts but the replaceable mono points and anti-balling plates more than make up for that. Have used them quite a bit this year and and would recommend them. Only thing is they can feel a little 'slidey' going downhill at first due to the point orientation in the middle but it's fine when you get used to it!

In reply to ERU:


Thanks, I love it, can I use it?

That's a really great analogy, comparing rock shoes to approach shoes or boots.

I might start using it when trying to explain why a technical monopoint crampon maybe isn't the best choice for general winter mountaineering/winter climbing with long steep snowy approaches and descents!

Along the lines of "Would you ever approach a long mountain rock route in your rock shoes, if so, how do you think it would feel descending steep wet grassy slopes"?